I always knew that woman wear offended by those arts and im with you. I mean, there is a new game that is out name ninja gaiden. There is 1 guy ninja, the main character and the devs added 3 other characters. Guess what. The 3 other characters are 3 girls with huge boobs that giggle and we see that rack of each of them.

Most of asian games, not only mmorpg's, their games represent woman as sexe symbole. The problem with asians devs, they make woman to make men play with them, but they really dont care about the woman gamers. Asian had always been sexist. If a girl know how to fight, she got to be a sexe symbole at the same time or they make a game where there is 0 woman as a selectable fighter.

Look at dead or alive, all woman got huge boobs that giggle. Its so unrealistic.

well, to be honnest, i dont even think that age of conan is sexist because it kind of follow what history was and i wont call history sexist too lol. There are story about slave and there was also slave woman so what do you think they do to him? Aoc are just realistic so its all good. Also, they dont have super big boobs like some other asian games.

Beauty is always a matter of taste. Well, actually it's a matter of what we are raised as and what we are told to like by the society we live in.

Like that women who are on the verge of starving to death are just thin enough to look acceptable. Ooooor... the way we think about minorities in general. Or people with a different skin color, or I don't know. There is no universal law that our belives and opinions have to be that way. It's just that way because we are to a large part the product of our society. If that is good or bad is mostly up to everyones personal taste. Though most people are neither willing nor able to take into consideration that their opinions are not really theirs but just what they were told to believe.

And with those opinions and believes we push people into stereotypes and roles. Some people accept those role willingly and love them, others feel imprisoned. Some eurasian girls who look like what is curriently told us to be beautiful love this role and the attention. What you can do is try to shape and choose your personal environment in such a way that you are content with it and the people who are part of it and how they behave and what they think. You can also try to change the society at large, but that happens very gradually though in general if at all. You can of course also rant and shout at people because you dislike their actions and opinions, but that will be rather useless except if it makes you happier and gives you relief.

Funnily enough though my brother (european) will happen to marry a japanese soon. ^^

I've always wondered why the large round eyes in Asian animation? It seems self-loathing to me. To find features of another race more desirable than your own. As an individual preference, that's one thing. But as a cultural bias it baffles me.

Originally posted by Senadina

I've always wondered why the large round eyes in Asian animation? It seems self-loathing to me. To find features of another race more desirable than your own. As an individual preference, that's one thing. But as a cultural bias it baffles me.

As one with an art degree, I know the answer to this.

The primary western influence on early anime and manga was none other than Walt Disney.  Many of the old, great mangaka of the 20th century have cited Disney as a major influence.

Watch the likes of Snow White and Fantasia and you will see those eyes you speak of as well as other "animeish" features.  Or should I say that anime is "Disney-esque".

The other half of the influence is from Chinese and Japanese watercolors.  If you look at those paintings, you will see where the androgony, light skins and all that come from.  Since the artform prized fluid lines, exagerated features while being sweeping, and graceful with an accent on the beauty of form, it is no wonder that today's manga, anime, and games have such things.

What the OP is complaining about is something that has been embedded in asian culture for several millenia with a dash of western influence.   Good luck in changing that.

Ughh who cares why you are offended. I'm offended that a certain body part of mine isnt up to the same standard that my race has been stereotyped for. Changes nothing. People are drawn to beauty and if the current Eur-asian mix is what catches people eyes,----male eyes---because we are the majority, then it shall be done. It's about money, not about little miss im so offended. Also, good job advertising the very products you set out to defame. 

Originally posted by Senadina

I've always wondered why the large round eyes in Asian animation? It seems self-loathing to me. To find features of another race more desirable than your own. As an individual preference, that's one thing. But as a cultural bias it baffles me.

Its art!

I mean, people don't look at Picasso and think that he hated the human form so much he had to mutilate reality, no they look at it as if its art.

Some Anime has large dinner plate sized Eyes, some does not.  Individual anime artists actually have a wide range of artistic styles.  Look at Animes that are based in reality, or at least loosely so.

Code Geass for instance has English characters, and Japanese characters, they look different, they are drawn different, and they are both in the same Anime!

Its just style, I mean if you look at Ah My Goddess!  they have GIGANTIC eyes, then go to Bleach and you begin to see more realisticly drawn characters with smaller eyes and slightly more realisticly drawn bodies.

Yes the women in all anime have gigantic boobs,  Wonder woman, Cat Woman, Bat Girl, all of these cartoon chicks have giant boobs too!

Its art! 

Originally posted by Senadina

I've always wondered why the large round eyes in Asian animation? It seems self-loathing to me. To find features of another race more desirable than your own. As an individual preference, that's one thing. But as a cultural bias it baffles me.

It's nothing new though as a cultural thing. Like the tons of countries where a bright skin has been thought of (or is still considered to be) an ideal, and where many women use all kinds of tricks to have a lighter skin. Has been this way in some countries since centuries, so in so far shouldn't be a surprise.

I would also like to add:  Where is the objecting to gender stereotypes in MMO's like CoH, CoV and CO?  I mean, every man out there looks like a super hero, don't they?

No?

Damn... Marvel and DC are Objectifying my gender... where's my lawyer!

I hate the fetishism of beastiality in mmo's. Sexy dog - cat - cow - goat people make a mockery of the very real deep and abiding love between a man and his horse.

Originally posted by Gestankfaust

I call BS

 

This is a carbon copy of the two posts deleted yesterday about the same thing. Funny how "Amanda" has a join date of today....hmmmm

 

Just quit while you are behind

I was thinking the same thing.  Someone has a fixation with this topic and they can't seem to let it go.   It seems almost unhealthy if you ask me.    I am female and I have no problem with the art in Asian games, in fact I rather like it.   The art is not all stodgy like most western based MMORPG's.  

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by AmandaVarone

 

I find nothing wrong with having attractive characters in MMOs. But why is it the art direction for much of these games revolves around having sexualized Eurasian looking characters, females especially 

 

 

 

In my opinion your criticism has 2 major issues.

1- Hero idealization.

What you mentined happens in western games, movies and almost all "visual" productions too. Even in classic art you will find different types of human figure idealization not only related to heroes. I found it strange that only the Eurasian archetype are a real issue to your eyes.

2-Men idealization.

In eastern games men is sexualized and idealized just like women.

It is easy to find muscular bodies with little to no clothes in western and eastern games.

The idealized image of men in these games are even more idealized than women image. From muscular build to beauty faces the image of men in all game history is the image of an ultra sexual, ultra strong, masculine but with feminine smooth beauty aswell.

I am not against idealizations. From the extreme of beauty to the extreme of uglyness and inadequacy. But I am a bit tired of these repetitive western cliches.

The one related to the eurasian looks and the one related to the sexualization of women... The truth is you find all archetypes in these games but with the appeal to beauty and exoticism and every human image is sexualized NOT only women image.

This kind of western complaing that comes from men and women are much more a reflex of insecurity than anything.

From Von Stuck to Klimt you will find idealized beauty and usually much more focused on the female image while in these games you find idealized human figure.

The hero (male and female) will usually express an image of strength, confidense and strong sexual appeal just like any strong animal of its kind.

 

...

You've restored my faith in humanity.  The topic at hand was either far under examined or unconciously skewed to represent a personal view blinded by tunnel vision.  I respect this persons right to form an opinion, but I do not respect the victimization of oneself without considering the bigger picture.

To another poster:

Hate and condemnation is bred by unlike minds, not by those who accept the world around them for what it is.  As such, I accept your world of hate and condemnation without hesitation.  That leaves one question;  To whom does the world belong?  You or I?

Originally posted by AmandaVarone
"Wow, you look like an elf or something" and knowing full well the asshole is gonna be wanking later picturing me or some other female like me as some fantasy nonhuman character from a damn game. It's sickening, it's gross, and it needs to STOP.

Ummm...someone has some serious issues, because guys and females do this...it is just natural for them to fantasize about females or guys or maybe someone is gay/lesbian.   If you never do this...you either have a sexual hang-up or you're lying through your teeth.     I'm not going to lie.   I'll go solo if I have the urge and my SO is not present and the first person that pops into my mind is the person I love.   If you're ashamed of masterbation maybe your issues are deeper than what you are so torn up about in your original post.  Sex is not bad and neither is being beautiful.   

Go see a therapist.  I think you need one.

Originally posted by decoy26517

Didnt we already have this conversation with someone today??

Is it me, or is Ms. 2 Post here startlingly similar to that dude that was bitching about how elves should look in games and other equally pointless bullshit?  Hell, even the huge pic spam is similar. 

Seriously...these are GAMES people.  You know, fun stuff, to pass the time.  Find something worthwhile to get worked up over, not dumb shit like this.

Thanks to the people who understood the message I was trying to get out.  To those who didn't, I feel I need to explain. 

For many years Asian women have been fetishized as sex objects.  White men referring to Asian women as china dolls, oriental fortune cookies, brown fucksluts, slanty eyed whores, and other garbage like that.  Asian women have been objectified as some sick sexual fantasy of some perptually young looking, hairless exotic fucktoy.  And as time went on, this shit moved towards Eurasians.  Us mixed raced Asians now get even more fetishism from sick, perverted white males aimed at us.  We are the most objectified group of women on Earth.  White women have NO idea how it feels to be seen by white men as well as asian men as some erotic overly sexualized doll put here solely for their sick perverted pleasure.  We are considered the most beautiful women on Earth due to our blend of Asian and European features, and put on a pedestal, causing us to be eyed as nothing more than sex dolls for male gratification.  I am sick of this bullshit, and sick of perverted white men trying to justify their sick fetishism with excuses.  How fucking dare you, I say.  White men have gone from objectifying asian women, to now judging asian women on their levels of whiteness, and desiring us Eurasians most of all, as we represent their sick fantasy of having an exotic asian woman who is still white, their perfect ideal sexually appealing slave.  Teala, the fact you try to judge my sexuality and claim I have issues, and yet defend these disgusting white men who view women like me as nothing more than a piece of exotic meat, makes me ill.  You will NEVER know how it feels to have some perverted white guy leering at you, and making remarks to his friends referring to you as a "hot piece of sushi".  It's disgusting and apalling.

For you guys who still don't understand, watch this and you'll get it.  If not, you can kiss my Eurasian ass!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjctiSKn96o

I was with you initially but you blew it on a couple of points:

1. Eurasians? Project much? Objectification of women is the norm. If you feel something specifically offensive is happening to euraisons, you're not paying attention.

2. Fetishization of eurasions in korean mmo's? Could you nail it down a bit more, I don't think you're being specific enough.

3. Disgusted!? Given all thats going on in the world THIS disgusts you? Take my advice and develop a drug habit and relax. You are wound WAY to tightly.

Edit: To be clear, I agree mass media in general objectifies and is offensive to women (actually I think it objectifies and is offensive to to everyone) I'm just taking issue with the extreme narrow focus of your "disgust".

Originally posted by AmandaVarone

Thanks to the people who understood the message I was trying to get out.  To those who didn't, I feel I need to explain. 

 

For many years Asian women have been fetishized as sex objects.  White men referring to Asian women as china dolls, oriental fortune cookies, brown fucksluts, slanty eyed whores, and other garbage like that.  Asian women have been objectified as some sick sexual fantasy of some perptually young looking, hairless exotic fucktoy.  And as time went on, this shit moved towards Eurasians.  Us mixed raced Asians now get even more fetishism from sick, perverted white males aimed at us.  We are the most objectified group of women on Earth.  White women have NO idea how it feels to be seen by white men as well as asian men as some erotic overly sexualized doll put here solely for their sick perverted pleasure.  We are considered the most beautiful women on Earth due to our blend of Asian and European features, and put on a pedestal, causing us to be eyed as nothing more than sex dolls for male gratification.  I am sick of this bullshit, and sick of perverted white men trying to justify their sick fetishism with excuses.  How fucking dare you, I say.  White men have gone from objectifying asian women, to now judging asian women on their levels of whiteness, and desiring us Eurasians most of all, as we represent their sick fantasy of having an exotic asian woman who is still white, their perfect ideal sexually appealing slave.  Teala, the fact you try to judge my sexuality and claim I have issues, and yet defend these disgusting white men who view women like me as nothing more than a piece of exotic meat, makes me ill.  You will NEVER know how it feels to have some perverted white guy leering at you, and making remarks to his friends referring to you as a "hot piece of sushi".  It's disgusting and apalling.

 

For you guys who still don't understand, watch this and you'll get it.  If not, you can kiss my Eurasian ass!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjctiSKn96o

Ummm...actually I do know.   I get payed by guys that lear at me.   I am an exotic dancer at club.   :)

Also, I think you're a guy.   I think you're the guy that posted all those threads yesterday on these forums.   I also think you're in need of some serious mental help, because all men and some women like to look at women as things of beauty, things as sexual creatures...you name it.    It's in our nature.    Just because you have hang-ups about sex, doesn't mean everyone else does.  Also, I use to dance in Japan and let me tell you my best clients were the locals and not the foreigners that frequented the dance club.

The reason for this is because many asian countries, especially japan, has a big fascination with western culture and western traits.

A lot of the game art is inspired by manga and, as much as anime and manga fans want to deny it, manga gets much of its inspiration for characters from western culture. Many asians are obsessed with western traits, they love the big eyes and different hairstyles and colours and this is reflected in games and anime. So many asian designers will create character that has western traits, but still that tiny bit of asian into it to make sure its asian audience gets its western fascination satisfied, yet is still being able to identify with the characters. This isn't done to please white males in the west, it's to please asian males in the east.

A lot of people say games stereotype and objectify women. I agree with that but in response i'll say that it's not just women, but just about every video game character. Take a look at male lead characters. In most cases you either play as a good looking young man, or as an ugly but mascular soldier, preferabely a war veteran.

When was the last time you have seen a video game character that was chubby or fat and wasn't in there for comic relief? How often do you see black people in games that don't have the traditional black stereotype? I can think of Louis from Left 4 dead but that's pretty much it. The reason for this is that the primary target audience for asian games are young asian males and the primary target audience for western games are young western males.

Originally posted by AmandaVarone

Thanks to the people who understood the message I was trying to get out.  To those who didn't, I feel I need to explain. 

 

For many years Asian women have been fetishized as sex objects.  White men referring to Asian women as china dolls, oriental fortune cookies, brown fucksluts, slanty eyed whores, and other garbage like that.  Asian women have been objectified as some sick sexual fantasy of some perptually young looking, hairless exotic fucktoy.  And as time went on, this shit moved towards Eurasians.  Us mixed raced Asians now get even more fetishism from sick, perverted white males aimed at us.  We are the most objectified group of women on Earth.  White women have NO idea how it feels to be seen by white men as well as asian men as some erotic overly sexualized doll put here solely for their sick perverted pleasure.  We are considered the most beautiful women on Earth due to our blend of Asian and European features, and put on a pedestal, causing us to be eyed as nothing more than sex dolls for male gratification.  I am sick of this bullshit, and sick of perverted white men trying to justify their sick fetishism with excuses.  How fucking dare you, I say.  White men have gone from objectifying asian women, to now judging asian women on their levels of whiteness, and desiring us Eurasians most of all, as we represent their sick fantasy of having an exotic asian woman who is still white, their perfect ideal sexually appealing slave.  Teala, the fact you try to judge my sexuality and claim I have issues, and yet defend these disgusting white men who view women like me as nothing more than a piece of exotic meat, makes me ill.  You will NEVER know how it feels to have some perverted white guy leering at you, and making remarks to his friends referring to you as a "hot piece of sushi".  It's disgusting and apalling.

 

For you guys who still don't understand, watch this and you'll get it.  If not, you can kiss my Eurasian ass!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjctiSKn96o

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but if you think that asian women are the only women who are objectified, you are sorely mistaken.  I would say blonds get objectified every bit as much as Asians.

Well there are a lot less eurasians than blonde girls in the west so it does become more noticable.

It's a fetish, don't dive too deep into this OP.....0o

Like Teala I doubt that the OP is legit. But if he/she/it is they are definitely being hypocritical. So it's only white males that are objectifying you huh?

2 almost exactly the same posts within ~24hour period from 2 different people? No, can we get this racially bigoted crap off the GENERAL MMORPG discussion forum? Or at least moved to the offtopic forum? Thx.

What part of the OP's post is racially bigoted?

Originally posted by Gameloading

The reason for this is because many asian countries, especially japan, has a big fascination with western culture and western traits.

A lot of the game art is inspired by manga and, as much as anime and manga fans want to deny it, manga gets much of its inspiration for characters from western culture. Many asians are obsessed with western traits, they love the big eyes and different hairstyles and colours and this is reflected in games and anime. So many asian designers will create character that has western traits, but still that tiny bit of asian into it to make sure its asian audience gets its western fascination satisfied, yet is still being able to identify.

A lot of people say games stereotype and objectify women. I agree with that but in response i'll say that it's not just women, but just about every video game character. Take a look at male lead characters. In most cases you either play as a good looking young man, or as an ugly but mascular soldier, preferabely a war veteran.

When was the last time you have seen a video game character that was chubby or fat and wasn't in there for comic relief? How often do you see black people in games that don't have the traditional black stereotype? I can think of Louis from Left 4 dead but that's pretty much it. The reason for this is that the primary target audience for asian games are young asian males and the primary target audience for western games are young western males.

Exactly.   You know what one of the most sought after plastic surgeries is in Asia...to get their eyes done.   Yep, they will get their eyes done so that they look more western.   Also, all men(well most - those that aren't gay), I don't care if you black, white, orange, purple...all of them like beautiful women.    Oh and to the OP.   What country has produced the most Miss Universes other than the US?  Can you say Venezuela?
 

Rank Country/Territory Miss Universe 1st Runner-Up 2nd Runner-Up 3rd Runner-Up 4th Runner-Up Semifinalists Total
1 USA 7 8 6 1 5 27 54
2 Venezuela 6 6 5 7 2 13 39
3 Puerto Rico 5 1 2 1 3 5 17
4 Sweden 3 1 2 3 4 16 29
5 Brazil 2 5 0 2 3 17 29
6 Finland 2 3 5 1 1 6 18
7 Australia 2 1 2 2 2 4 12
8 Japan 2 1 1 2 3 9 18
9 India 2 1 1 1 1 13 19
10 Canada 2 1 1 1 0 11 16
 

Latin women, most desired?  Puh-leeeeeze!  No guy wants some fat assed tan slut, when he can have a slim and lithe Asian girl.  Why do you think Asian women got objectified so damn much?

I was waiting for this post.   Proves my point.  You're a sick individual and definitely not female at all.