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Originally posted by Hypodermica Thanks for the reply. Even sarcastic and trollish replies are appreciated. Business to Business transactions vs. Business to Consumer transactions have nothing to do with anything I said. I'm talking about PRODUCING the product... the steps.. procedures involved. I'm surprised someone whom has been reading English for such a long time wouldn't understand this. You missing the point does not invalidate mine. If anything it "invalidates" your skills of observation. At the core of my original post (the one that started this whole discussion) as well as my latest post is this simple question: Why does the process have to be so flawed? I gave a great example/view of how a project is completed from within a company in order to show exactly how we keep a project rolling out as smoothly as possible. This includes: 1. Sharing information/project data/procedures/outlines with companies who have already launched MMO's to understand the flaws, problems, and unknowns. 2. Hire a project management team/group with experience in this exact type of project. 3. Have contingency in place. Does that make sense? Telling me that companies can still make a dollar by releasing a buggy piece of software does not make my point valid. It only proves that THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT !
How many customers read the complains about bugs, lag, and not logging in? How many of those are turned away? Money out the window...
How many play for a month and un-sub because they feel cheated, frustrated, or are unhappy with the launch? I don't have the numbers and I haven't done the research. I assume you don't have that information either. My guess is that by changing the process and investing more time, the pay-off would be worth it. Hell, you might even launch a Sci-Fi game a few weeks after the launch of another huge sci-fi'ish MMO like Aion so you can catch the rush of people who don't like Aion and are unsubbing rather than launching back to back and fighting a much larger company like that.
Your post makes no sense in the way that you are trying to present it. For one, the procedures are the same, as you say, /BUT/ the money to implement those procedures are not, resulting in disparate results between the two, which is my point. You are arguing that products that are sold to businesses should have the same quality as products sold to consumers, which we know isn't true in any realm of business. It cannot be because a business' requirements are different than a consumer's. Now, the argument about how this has to change then goes into the realm of how much would you pay for the privilege? Would you pay the $10000 a month that Bank of America pays to have a service contract with IBM over it's online banking platform that IBM is also developing? Or perhaps you'd pay the $15000 a month Etna pays Extream software for it's document management software tool, including support. I say your argument is invalid because you get one or the other, not both. If you want better quality, then you will simply have to pay more. And in this environment where people pay $15/month with a little annoyance, how are you going to sell $100/month for none? As to your other arguments, point 1 just shows you're an idiot. Businesses are not going to share /their/ trade secrets so that the consumer can have a better product. They won't work that way. Point two will raise costs, which will then be transferred to the consumer. Also is the question of whether it is really needed. So far, experience shows us that 'no', it is not needed. You can rant and rave about how it might need to change, but in the foreseeable future, it's not. And what contingency would you suggest? Again, it comes down to money. How much extra are you going to pay to have an uninterrupted gaming session? Businesses do what they do because consumers are fickle. You could have the best product in the world, but a consumer will still get bored with it, especially when there is no actual tangible product. As far as lost sales and such, I doubt FE is suffering for subscribers or players right now and is probably pretty comfortable with the numbers. You're not selling anything here, and honestly, I don't think many people are buying. |
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DonnieBrasco
 Elite Member
Joined: 7/25/06
Achiever 80.00% |
Originally posted by PC2009
Agree This game is one of the worst I bought with Roma Victor. AOC, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, War, and even SWG are better games. It's not only a problem of graphism, not only a problem of bugs (this game has terrible issues; take a look at official forums ), it's a problem of gameplay. It's NOT a sandbox game, it's NOT a FPS, not a Tabula Rasa like, it's a very very very mediocre game, but not a cheap one. Stay away. NB i'm not a troller, and played many many many mmorpgs, and was a beta tester for some mmorpgs. I can't understand why i payed for this... ah yeah thx to fanboys who told me it was the new sandbox game. it is NOT. It's another clone, but a bad one : boring and repetitive quests, ridiculous graphisms (omg the world ), full of bugs.
http://forums.fallenearth.com/fallenearth/ before buying, wait for a trial (LOL ) and take a look to official forumsforums.fallenearth.com/fallenearth/ Some links http://forums.fallenearth.com/fallenearth/showthread.php?t=22864
Sorry to disappoint, but nobody is interested in your disappointment, dear "registered today" :D DB Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is. |
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I hate itt too, its why im waiting for people to stop posting bad things about all the new games that are coming out and wait for them to post good things about the content and etc. So by that time theyll be fully patched and ready to go. Or well, i hope lol Just gotta be patient. |
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and just to add on to my comment above i hate how games like aion already have EXP packs coming out why couldnt they just have included that in the game and had it complete then add on from there its retarded i think. |
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Originally posted by twhint What you are basically saying is its OK for Company A to produce a product of sub-par quality because they aren't the mega-corporation that produces quality stuff? That IS the whole point of the person who you are arguing with. If you do not have the funds to produce desired product, you either change HOW you make it or change WHAT you make it. If you are making a car and you run out money making it, you can't just finish it up and still call it a car. "Oh you know, we didn't have enough money like Honda, so Its OK for us to make a care without wheels." - ridiculous. This thing should NOT have happened in the first place. A smart businessmen will not start something that is out of their league. What these so-called indie developers do is they get partial investments, and they HOPE they get more investments on the way. They HOPE they get enough resources to have a barely-playable game. When they CAN'T, they let the marketing department spin the hype and let CSR/PR department damage control. This is BAD business. If businesses would go the way Blizzard went - producing polished games, then we would have several MMOs on the market right now all being playable, fun and without any groundbreaking bugs. most games that come out unfinished do not last long. People who defend these kind of games or even if they simply keep silent actually promote this type of business practice. If this keeps happening, next thing we know all new games are bugged, unplayable, missing major piece of content, get finished on the go after release... I don't want this to happen. Long story short, if you can't predict how much a project cost, then you shouldn't even start working on it. Work on something more down to earth, more realistic. I am not happy at the state of FE. No1 warned me about bugged resources, about lag, about the crashes. I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time. |
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Yawn, I come looking for info and get another tired thread. No game of this type will ever be released 'finished', just liked no one will ever be born an adult. This debate has been done to death. Please, either accept the nature of the product you are buying or go and do something else with your spare time. And no, I'm not making an excuse for crap devs but I personally do not see this situation changing and have learned to live with it. Why these whiny, glass-half-empty gamers keep dragging this up I have no idea. Some people make a point, but it's all been said and done so why are you still typing? Others are just spoilt kids who must find it hard to reconcile an imperfect world when they've been raised in a decadent western fantasy land where they are given everything they want. I mean, kids moaning that the graphics are poor, etc. You could feed a family in a third world country for a year with the money your part-time parents paid for that pile of circuits you just 'play' on and you moan that you're not getting this, that and the other. Tell someone who gives a sh*t. Often it's so not the games that are the problem. Playing - Dungeons & Dragons | Earth Eternal | Global Agenda |
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Originally posted by twhint Thanks for the reply. Even sarcastic and trollish replies are appreciated. Business to Business transactions vs. Business to Consumer transactions have nothing to do with anything I said. I'm talking about PRODUCING the product... the steps.. procedures involved. I'm surprised someone whom has been reading English for such a long time wouldn't understand this. You missing the point does not invalidate mine. If anything it "invalidates" your skills of observation. At the core of my original post (the one that started this whole discussion) as well as my latest post is this simple question: Why does the process have to be so flawed? I gave a great example/view of how a project is completed from within a company in order to show exactly how we keep a project rolling out as smoothly as possible. This includes: 1. Sharing information/project data/procedures/outlines with companies who have already launched MMO's to understand the flaws, problems, and unknowns. 2. Hire a project management team/group with experience in this exact type of project. 3. Have contingency in place. Does that make sense? Telling me that companies can still make a dollar by releasing a buggy piece of software does not make my point valid. It only proves that THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT !
How many customers read the complains about bugs, lag, and not logging in? How many of those are turned away? Money out the window...
How many play for a month and un-sub because they feel cheated, frustrated, or are unhappy with the launch? I don't have the numbers and I haven't done the research. I assume you don't have that information either. My guess is that by changing the process and investing more time, the pay-off would be worth it. Hell, you might even launch a Sci-Fi game a few weeks after the launch of another huge sci-fi'ish MMO like Aion so you can catch the rush of people who don't like Aion and are unsubbing rather than launching back to back and fighting a much larger company like that.
Your post makes no sense in the way that you are trying to present it. For one, the procedures are the same, as you say, /BUT/ the money to implement those procedures are not, resulting in disparate results between the two, which is my point. You are arguing that products that are sold to businesses should have the same quality as products sold to consumers, which we know isn't true in any realm of business. It cannot be because a business' requirements are different than a consumer's. Now, the argument about how this has to change then goes into the realm of how much would you pay for the privilege? Would you pay the $10000 a month that Bank of America pays to have a service contract with IBM over it's online banking platform that IBM is also developing? Or perhaps you'd pay the $15000 a month Etna pays Extream software for it's document management software tool, including support. I say your argument is invalid because you get one or the other, not both. If you want better quality, then you will simply have to pay more. And in this environment where people pay $15/month with a little annoyance, how are you going to sell $100/month for none? As to your other arguments, point 1 just shows you're an idiot. Businesses are not going to share /their/ trade secrets so that the consumer can have a better product. They won't work that way. Point two will raise costs, which will then be transferred to the consumer. Also is the question of whether it is really needed. So far, experience shows us that 'no', it is not needed. You can rant and rave about how it might need to change, but in the foreseeable future, it's not. And what contingency would you suggest? Again, it comes down to money. How much extra are you going to pay to have an uninterrupted gaming session? Businesses do what they do because consumers are fickle. You could have the best product in the world, but a consumer will still get bored with it, especially when there is no actual tangible product. As far as lost sales and such, I doubt FE is suffering for subscribers or players right now and is probably pretty comfortable with the numbers. You're not selling anything here, and honestly, I don't think many people are buying.
Okay, so let me understand you because apparently you are God and I am an "idiot" as you put it. Here is what you're trying to sell me: You cannot improve the production of a product through the review of your procedure, streamlining, thinking outside of the broken box, or make any improvements to product launch which would result in higher profits, more stable revenue, and an improvement in company brand....... without over-charging the f**k out of your customers. I disagree. Over-charging for the product is NOT the ONLY way to make a product better. Innovation, process improvement, streamlining, and procedural advancement has made MANY MANY MANY PRODUCTS 1. Better 2. Cheaper to produce 3. More profitable 4. Cheaper for the consumer ...in every f**king market in this world. I know... I'm the idiot.... only money can make something better, not like... how you produce it. You say that you cannot purchase or share valuable data between companies because that's just impossible, never going to happen and never has. Amazing, because I took part in EXACTLY this kind of transaction between the USPS/FedEx and HP/Microsoft. Information is money man, and it's for sale dude! Being a small biz owner, I know for a fact that I can purchase sales leads from other companies through brokers. I'd say Business 101 but it's more of a common sense thing. Apparently, common sense is NOT common in SOME of us. ;) (not gonna say who!) You say that hiring a project management group or a specialist in MMO launching will raise costs directly the consumer? Costs can be justified through profit and costs can be mitigated in many many ways. Let's not forget, selling something for... $15/month($8/month profit) to only 100,000 people is not nearly as good as selling $15/month ($7/month profit) to 1,000,000 even if the 2nd choice nets you $7 compared to $9 per month, per sub. Here you say "I doubt FE is suffering for subscribers or players right now". Aside from the word "doubt" (which is prevalent in almost everything you say) the key word in that lousy statement is "now". Your "it's all doomed and nothing can change it" attitude would never hold up in any real business environment and it's not holding up in here. Your posts should come with a "Debbie Downer" sound sample play button in each and every one of them. (Click Link Below) :( "You can't make MMO launches ANY better without charging TOO much!" - Twathint
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Originally posted by Aryas Above quote summarized in a single sound bite. (LISTEN TO IT HEAR) |
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I'll let the others view your broken logic and make their own conclusions. You simply don't understand what I'm saying and that is fine. |
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