Originally posted by Blank300

On a final note, Aion is a amazing game that is truly remarkable, and it's funny how people tend to find " Little " things to complain about, I guess you really can't please anyone.

Personally, I don't find a traintrack grinder anything remarkable, even if it has lol wings.

its not amazing but it is a great game with solid gameplay and is pretty fun all around but they do need to cut the grind by either lowering the xp needed to level at higher levels or make quests give you enough xp to keep up with just killing mobs.

it does take longer than WoW, but you cant really say WoW isnt a grind either.  You still need to start at level 1 and work your way through 79 levels of meaningless gunk, to get to what you really want to do (at least thats what im assuming for people who want shorter level times). 

People who enjoy the leveling process might not mind it as much, i currently dont, although im only lvl 21 and havent had that much time to play. 

I would be interested in seeing a MMO remove the leveling process, and the skill grinding varient (and possibly gear grinding process) and see how that works out, and if people really do stick with it.  Just as a curiosity.

Originally posted by Jackio81

Now maybe this formula is working well in the Asian market considering how much those gamers love to grind....but I'm sorry it's just not going to work here and here's my explanation.

 

(Oh and I'm not an absolutist so I believe in reasonable arguments that could change my outlook...0o)

 

If you haven't noticed, Aion is a game without a PvE server so and so called "normal" server, so whether you hate PvP or not you will have to deal with it one shape or form to get anywhere in this game. Right there you're already cutting out a big chunk of gamers here on the west.

If a player hates PvP is not a good idea to come to AION.

 

Now let's talk about players that enjoy PvP, the problem I see with this game right now is grind just doesn't work for this crowd.

AION is not ONLY PvP, they called PvPvE.

 

Up until level 20 this game is actually enjoyable, but once that level comes and goes that's when the XP bar just about doubles in size and the quests begin to give just as much as a single mob encounter.

Im 24 and keep leveling just like i have been until now.

 

If you want to make a game that caters to PvP don't force them to grind much, this is a lesson that was well learned in WAR that is once again showing up here in the different way.

In WAR players found PvE the best means of leveling and gearing up for RvR, and since the RvR system in itself was flawed and badly thought out the game failed to impress PvPers.

Dont know about WAR, AION is a game with PvE and PvP, you need to like both to enjoy the game.

 

In Aion players have to PvE if they want to compete with other players, there is no choice like what you'd see in WAR, and the grind is so enduring that the game is turning into a gankfest where players try to grind while in fear of being attacked by other players at all times.

WAR here again.... WAR is WAR, AION is AION... just pick the one u like more. They are diferent, why you insist to compare them?

 

Aion simply forces PvPers to PvE, and PvEers to PvP.....this is not a well thought out scheme to satisfy players. If you want to make a PvP game you're focus needs to stay away from grind as much as possible, and this game doesn't allow you to do it, it forces you not just to PvE but grind...and I don't see any bigger turn off for a PvPer than this!

Yes, again AION is PvPvE, so yes, PvE and PvP are togather on this game.

You want changes on AION or a complete new game?

 

Either cut the grind or alow players to gain xp from other players...either than this I don't see this game doing so well...0o

 AION was build around a idea:  PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world

If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing   :)

I think the OP has a good point. If the game turns into just another asian grinder post 30, there is no way in hell I will be able to continue. I played L2 for a long time and I got seriously tired of that kind of grind. I just don't think it has a place in MMOs at this stage. 
 

It is just what lazy developers use to prevent players from getting to the end game without actually adding enough interesting content to help them along the way. Its a cop-out and its pathetic...

The funny thing is, its obvious that they copied WoW in almost every way... why they would choose to ignore the fact that the majority of MMO gamers do not like crazy grinds is beyond me.

And BTW, it is not a valid argument to tell someone to just stop playing and go away if they don't like the game. These forums are for discussion about MMORPGs and we are all entitled to our opinions. If the OP wants to share the reasons why he does not think the game will appeal to himself or others, he has every right to do so.

Originally posted by Khrymson

Aion is actually doing something that most MMOs in the past 5 yrs havn't done...and thats present a strong leveling curve, and all these new players that started with WoW where its fricken easy to lvl and has no penalty complain cause its too hard or OMG, but the quest says I only have to kill 10 monsters....ahh no I have to kill a few more...its a grind, now I'm gonna go and complain like a little bitch all over the net!

QFT.

I think they just need to add new quests to each area (except for maybe the first two), and possibly increase the exp reward from some.

The reason the game starts to feel grindy is that it's quests dry up at certain levels, and at the worst times (usually right when your trying to surpass one area to get to another). Plus, they have waay too many gathering quests intertwined into the main quest progression. This needs to be balanced out a little better.

I hope they address these in the next patch, because it's not a hard thing to do, and would make their game much more accessible to the casual gamer.

Some people may absolute "love" this type of games but why pay monthly subscription for something that the internet is full of for free?

The only difference is wings and if people are saying this is PVP focused then it'll probably be fail, most pvp games fail cause theres nothing to do other than PVP.

Also why the hell is the box for this game so expensive i mean come on 35 quid? Technically all i'm paying for is the subscription and disk so wtf?

For first time after many years, I'm having FUN grinding. I even ignore some quests to grind.

For me Aion is fun and I like its leveling curve!

Originally posted by Anubisan

I think the OP has a good point. If the game turns into just another asian grinder post 30, there is no way in hell I will be able to continue. I played L2 for a long time and I got seriously tired of that kind of grind. I just don't think it has a place in MMOs at this stage. 
 

It is just what lazy developers use to prevent players from getting to the end game without actually adding enough interesting content to help them along the way. Its a cop-out and its pathetic...

The funny thing is, its obvious that they copied WoW in almost every way... why they would choose to ignore the fact that the majority of MMO gamers do not like crazy grinds is beyond me.

And BTW, it is not a valid argument to tell someone to just stop playing and go away if they don't like the game. These forums are for discussion about MMORPGs and we are all entitled to our opinions. If the OP wants to share the reasons why he does not think the game will appeal to himself or others, he has every right to do so.

  That is the crux of it: In no shape or form is grinding more enjoyable than questing for most people, which is why games like EQ2 and WoW have made questing an integrable part of advancement. WoW has even added PvP as a viable form of character advancement at later levels ( which they obviously ripped off of WAR ), so many players are now "grinding" Alterac Valley in a fun PvP skrimish instead of pressing the same sequence of buttons over and over again.

Originally posted by Elesthor

For first time after many years, I'm having FUN grinding. I even ignore some quests to grind.

For me Aion is fun and I like its leveling curve!

  Really, you do? So if I gave you the choice of reading a book, or pounding in 5000 nails for a non-trivial amount of money you'd choose the nails? 

Originally posted by Adokaum

Some people may absolute "love" this type of games but why pay monthly subscription for something that the internet is full of for free?

The only difference is wings and if people are saying this is PVP focused then it'll probably be fail, most pvp games fail cause theres nothing to do other than PVP.

Also why the hell is the box for this game so expensive i mean come on 35 quid? Technically all i'm paying for is the subscription and disk so wtf?

So you pay for an MMO in order to get quest. Well there are different people paying for different things.

The game is not just PvP focused, It offers polished PvE too. People tend to say its PvP focused because it promotes meaningful outdoor PvP and doesn't  limits it into instanced arenas.

O M G SO SICK OF KILLING THE SAME MOBS OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

and whats even worse, they are re-skinned mobs from the previous zones... @_@

Originally posted by Elesthor

 

So you pay for an MMO in order to get quest. Well there are different people paying for different things.

The game is not just PvP focused, It offers polished PvE too. People tend to say its PvP focused because it promotes meaningful outdoor PvP and doesn't  limits it into instanced arenas.

  Polished PvE? What's your definition of polished PvE? Most people who have played their fair share of MMO's would consider polished PvE to be a plethora of challenging raid encounters requiring 20+ people, a myriad of quests to level up with instead of killing the same mobs over and over again and finally a big open world to explore.

In my opinion ncsoft with their level curve wanted to make the games like they should be, it's not a race on how can you reach cap fast but the travel it takes you to do it.

What I mean is at 25 you can go in the abyss and there are some dungeons you can do even the seiges you have many choices on what to do apart of leveling plus in the abyss you get far more exp then in the other zones and abyss points too.

They gave you the choice on either keep on leveling to cap OR if you want you can have fun fighting elyos/asmodians in the abyss or take up some fortress or gather as much abyss points you can at the time, there are many choices to choose from but still people(I know not everyone but most) still want to reach cap before seeing the "fun" of the game.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Elesthor

For first time after many years, I'm having FUN grinding. I even ignore some quests to grind.

For me Aion is fun and I like its leveling curve!

 

  Really, you do? So if I gave you the choice of reading a book, or pounding in 5000 nails for a non-trivial amount of money you'd choose the nails? 

 

Face it, people like to do other things from what you do too. You people have to learn to respect others opinions and likes.

People like to go to Gym or play sports, I find it tiresome and boring... I would prefer to read a book or watch a movie insted of doing something burdensome like these things. But I respect people who like to do these things!

What  I said is that while I was generally bored of the grind from previous MMOs (WoW, War, Lotro) in Aion I find myself grinding because I find the gameplay fun. But thats just me. It is understandable if you dont feel this way.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Elesthor

 

So you pay for an MMO in order to get quest. Well there are different people paying for different things.

The game is not just PvP focused, It offers polished PvE too. People tend to say its PvP focused because it promotes meaningful outdoor PvP and doesn't  limits it into instanced arenas.

 

  Polished PvE? What's your definition of polished PvE? Most people who have played their fair share of MMO's would consider polished PvE to be a plethora of challenging raid encounters requiring 20+ people, a myriad of quests to level up with instead of killing the same mobs over and over again and finally a big open world to explore.

Seriously, what are you doing in the Aion forums? Trying to start a flame? Trolling? What?

You dont like the game, I respect that but what are you doing here?

I dont like FIFA games ....but Im not in their forums trying to "pick a fight".

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Elesthor

 

So you pay for an MMO in order to get quest. Well there are different people paying for different things.

The game is not just PvP focused, It offers polished PvE too. People tend to say its PvP focused because it promotes meaningful outdoor PvP and doesn't  limits it into instanced arenas.

 

  Polished PvE? What's your definition of polished PvE? Most people who have played their fair share of MMO's would consider polished PvE to be a plethora of challenging raid encounters requiring 20+ people, a myriad of quests to level up with instead of killing the same mobs over and over again and finally a big open world to explore.

Seriously, what are you doing in the Aion forums? Trying to start a flame? Trolling? What?

You dont like the game, I respect that but what are you doing here?

I dont like FIFA games ....but Im not in their forums trying to "pick a fight".

  I get it: Nobody is allowed to disagree with you, or they are looking to pick a fight. 

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Elesthor

For first time after many years, I'm having FUN grinding. I even ignore some quests to grind.

For me Aion is fun and I like its leveling curve!

 

  Really, you do? So if I gave you the choice of reading a book, or pounding in 5000 nails for a non-trivial amount of money you'd choose the nails? 

 

 

Face it, people like to do other things from what you do too. You people have to learn to respect others opinions and likes.

People like to go to Gym or play sports, I find it tiresome and boring... I would prefer to read a book or watch a movie insted of doing something burdensome like these things. But I respect people who like to do these things!

What  I said is that while I was generally bored of the grind from previous MMOs (WoW, War, Lotro) in Aion I find myself grinding because I find the gameplay fun. But thats just me. It is understandable if you dont feel this way.

fully agree with you, Aion is the first MMO in a while that I actually eagerly anticipate playing after i get off of work.  I dont mind the grind at all, except crafting (although I understand why its there).  Its fun for me, like wow was until recently.  I never really got the same feeling from WAR, AoC or Champs.

Originally posted by Jabas

Originally posted by Jackio81

 

Now let's talk about players that enjoy PvP, the problem I see with this game right now is grind just doesn't work for this crowd.

AION is not ONLY PvP, they called PvPvE.

 PvPvE term comes from the 3rd faction that is environmental.   It has nothing to do with " PvE ", which is generally used to mean anything not PvP related.

Aion simply forces PvPers to PvE, and PvEers to PvP.....this is not a well thought out scheme to satisfy players. If you want to make a PvP game you're focus needs to stay away from grind as much as possible, and this game doesn't allow you to do it, it forces you not just to PvE but grind...and I don't see any bigger turn off for a PvPer than this!

Yes, again AION is PvPvE, so yes, PvE and PvP are togather on this game.

You want changes on AION or a complete new game?

 Again you are not using the term PvPvE correctly.  It doesn't have anything to do with PvE, but the 3rd faction that is supposed to be controlled by AI. 

 AION was build around a idea:  PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world

If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing   :)

OP wasn't asking to change the game completely, but to get rid of the grind since this is a PvP game.  I some what agree, but I still think a little grind would be ok.   If a casual PvPer can't hit max level within his/her first month ( ~60 hours play time ), then I don't think the game will make it in the western market, or the game must be designed more closely towards FPS mechanics.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

 

  I get it: Nobody is allowed to disagree with you, or they are looking to pick a fight. 

If that's what you get from my posts... so be it, continue your anti-Aion crusade I wont annoy you anymore.

The main problem at the moment seems to be that most of the people complaining about Aion are not actually playing it. So thank you anyway but if you don't like and don't play it telling us that over and over is just boring.

If you don't like it you don't like it and so go find something you do. If you don't like aspects of it then feel free to try and have a constructive discussion but simply saying it is a grinder is to be honest just a bit ignorant. The main purpose of any game is to keep the player occupied (happily hopefully).

I find wide open PvP to be a bit frustrating and I find pure PvE to eventually become repetitive. For me I think Aion might prove to be a good mix. Yes the newbie quest series is very linear and leads a player from point A to point B. Gee you think it was almost designed that way to show players around and yet people are still yelling where is Tutty.

Pretty much all the complaints that have been levelled at Aion are valid with pretty much each and every game out there. Don't like doing the same thing over and over then don't run missions or mine in EvE. Find that quests run you all over the place then don't do the pie quest in LotRO. Find that the skills needed to fight consist of pressing the same series of keys over and over and over and over then don't play WoW.

Aion says on the lable that it is a fantasy based MMO with PvPvE so if you don't like PvPers in your PvE then this isn't the game for you. If you don't want to have to work your way up from a level 1 player to a level 50 player then this isn't the game for you. Aion isn't for everyone even though right now it seems like they are all trying to log on my server so go away now. Shoo all of you!

Originally posted by Jackio81

Now maybe this formula is working well in the Asian market considering how much those gamers love to grind....but I'm sorry it's just not going to work here and here's my explanation.

 

(Oh and I'm not an absolutist so I believe in reasonable arguments that could change my outlook...0o)

 

If you haven't noticed, Aion is a game without a PvE server so and so called "normal" server, so whether you hate PvP or not you will have to deal with it one shape or form to get anywhere in this game. Right there you're already cutting out a big chunk of gamers here on the west.

 

Now let's talk about players that enjoy PvP, the problem I see with this game right now is grind just doesn't work for this crowd.

 

Up until level 20 this game is actually enjoyable, but once that level comes and goes that's when the XP bar just about doubles in size and the quests begin to give just as much as a single mob encounter.

 

If you want to make a game that caters to PvP don't force them to grind much, this is a lesson that was well learned in WAR that is once again showing up here in the different way.

 

In WAR players found PvE the best means of leveling and gearing up for RvR, and since the RvR system in itself was flawed and badly thought out the game failed to impress PvPers.

 

In Aion players have to PvE if they want to compete with other players, there is no choice like what you'd see in WAR, and the grind is so enduring that the game is turning into a gankfest where players try to grind while in fear of being attacked by other players at all times.

 

Aion simply forces PvPers to PvE, and PvEers to PvP.....this is not a well thought out scheme to satisfy players. If you want to make a PvP game you're focus needs to stay away from grind as much as possible, and this game doesn't allow you to do it, it forces you not just to PvE but grind...and I don't see any bigger turn off for a PvPer than this!

 

Either cut the grind or alow players to gain xp from other players...either than this I don't see this game doing so well...0o

I'm sorry that people think there is a grind but I am curious as to what games you come from. The "grind" or leveling in Aion is very easy. I hit 29 in one day, with a good part of that just helping on lower lvl and relatively no xp quests and am over 25% into 31 the next day. So seriously what easy games are you coming from?

As far as catering to pvp, it doesn't cater to pvp. stop that. This is their attempt of mixing pve and pvp. Head dev said that himself, I heard it from his own lips.

It is not their fault that you don't like a mixture of pve and pvp. I do think the pve is a bit lackluster but it certainly is not as bad as warhammer's efforts in my opinion.

And as I've been saying for years. if you are a strictly pvp person you will hate Aion. If you are a strictly pve person you will hate Aion. So the market for this game is people who fall in the middle. There is nothign wrong with that.

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

I'm sorry that people think there is a grind but I am curious as to what games you come from. The "grind" or leveling in Aion is very easy. I hit 29 in one day, with a good part of that just helping on lower lvl and relatively no xp quests and am over 25% into 31 the next day. So seriously what easy games are you coming from?

As far as catering to pvp, it doesn't cater to pvp. stop that. This is their attempt of mixing pve and pvp. Head dev said that himself, I heard it from his own lips.

It is not their fault that you don't like a mixture of pve and pvp. I do think the pve is a bit lackluster but it certainly is not as bad as warhammer's efforts in my opinion.

And as I've been saying for years. if you are a strictly pvp person you will hate Aion. If you are a strictly pve person you will hate Aion. So the market for this game is people who fall in the middle. There is nothign wrong with that.

This summary wins the thread.

And level 29 in one day?  WOW, do you give lessons because its taking me a good deal longer than that and I'm only level 16.

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Elesthor

For first time after many years, I'm having FUN grinding. I even ignore some quests to grind.

For me Aion is fun and I like its leveling curve!

 

  Really, you do? So if I gave you the choice of reading a book, or pounding in 5000 nails for a non-trivial amount of money you'd choose the nails? 

 

 

Face it, people like to do other things from what you do too. You people have to learn to respect others opinions and likes.

People like to go to Gym or play sports, I find it tiresome and boring... I would prefer to read a book or watch a movie insted of doing something burdensome like these things. But I respect people who like to do these things!

What  I said is that while I was generally bored of the grind from previous MMOs (WoW, War, Lotro) in Aion I find myself grinding because I find the gameplay fun. But thats just me. It is understandable if you dont feel this way.

Agreed! Somtimes people need a break from the usual, griding can attract it's old hardcore grinders, or it could be an ease of break from your quest x210343949. Aion can be for everyone and make grinding inovational like WoW did. if they knew how to make grinding interesting or fun. like, super awesome combat sequences. or something like that.