Originally posted by tillamook

I think they have also said that if they are ready to reveal somethng, then you can trust that it isn't BS.

Thank goodness the devs will tell us when they aren't BSing us.

/sarcasm

Devs lie, and they don't tell us when they are lying.

Originally posted by Tinybina

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

 

Usually "single player oriented" is used to described the pre-end game portion of an MMORPG.

It's not really relevant that the game has raids in the end.

WoW for example is considered a single player oriented game, or solo friendly, NOT because it doesn't have raids at the end which are of course forced grouping, but because the pre-end game portion of the game can easily be solo'ed all the way through.

It's solo friendly or single player oriented if you can solo easily all the way through the levels or skills. I believe rough estimates are that only less than 20% of a player base for any particular MMORPG actually plays the "end game" for any significant amount of time. So the pre-end game portion of the game is much more important than the "end game".

I think this game will look a lot like a solo friendly game, since you get NPC party members, and quests will probably scale so you can do them solo. The majority of the player base will probably be off in instances doing their quests solo, and group once in a while, till they get to the end game, then quit or roll an alt.

Even so, might still be fun, because KOTOR was a lot of fun even if it was a single player game.

 

 

 

 

What WOW did you play World at War? Becaues the WOW that I played (World of Warcraft) was full of group content way before you got close to the end game.  I mean hell before I hit  level freaking 30 their were already 5 or 6 grp instances that I could run with others.  If you want to sit here and say  how those could be soled at a low level go for it, but you would be dead wrong.

I think you would have been better off using a game like Champions Online as an example of a grp oriented MMO.

No.. the point he made was that you are not forced to. Even in classic, you didn't -need- to do those instances, it was completely optional. If you go back to games like EverQuest.. you HAD to group, plain and simple.

As others have posted clearly making negative judgements about the game before it launches is silly. That however also includes postive judgements. Its always worth a little chuckle to see people decry negative ideas about the game before launch while at the same time saying how awesome the game is.

That being said, imo the main thing that makes people think the game is solo-oriented is the pets.  Everyone is their own group of people.  Again, have to wait until launch to see how it plays and feels, but you can at least understand why people would think its solo-oriented given the pets.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

 

Usually "single player oriented" is used to described the pre-end game portion of an MMORPG.

It's not really relevant that the game has raids in the end.

WoW for example is considered a single player oriented game, or solo friendly, NOT because it doesn't have raids at the end which are of course forced grouping, but because the pre-end game portion of the game can easily be solo'ed all the way through.

It's solo friendly or single player oriented if you can solo easily all the way through the levels or skills. I believe rough estimates are that only less than 20% of a player base for any particular MMORPG actually plays the "end game" for any significant amount of time. So the pre-end game portion of the game is much more important than the "end game".

I think this game will look a lot like a solo friendly game, since you get NPC party members, and quests will probably scale so you can do them solo. The majority of the player base will probably be off in instances doing their quests solo, and group once in a while, till they get to the end game, then quit or roll an alt.

Even so, might still be fun, because KOTOR was a lot of fun even if it was a single player game.

 

 

I would love to see where you are getting these figures you are quoting.

I think the whole reason bioware added in the npc party function was so if you got tired of going lfg you could go somewhere pick up your trusty npcs and go to work, the game is party orientated but you can opt out of players for your party. Now me I read a lot of the it's solo it will suck words as mainly coming from people who don't like story dirven games, these being the people that prefer to just pvp, sandbox, craft, and grind away their hours. A few of them are the same people that gank everyone in games like WoW and AoC. For the most part I expect this game to be a lot less like everyone expects with the smugglers using active cover while the jedi plays like he is a paladin, and the trooper is a mass AoE dmg tank.

I expect this to play from what I have seen of it a lot like the old knights of the old republic games, meaning less like your standard mmo and more of an rpg. They already said that you do bad things and you will lose points with certain npcs to the point they stop talking to you, and vice versa as some evil npcs will only be your friends if you are evil. The whole faction factor based off choices will kill this game for your power gamer, press 1 for all conversation types. The ones who just mereily click away to get through dialog faster. I will play SWTOR, might play it as my primary mmo once it launches, but I don't see it being more than a nich game as it is in point of fact an actuall RPG first, and massivly multiplayer second. 

Though personally I love their quest making slogan, "And then darth vader does what?" Cause franky I just see him force choking a guy then shoving a lightsaber someplace unpleasant if the man says go kill ten giant rats.

Originally posted by Ragnaven

I think the whole reason bioware added in the npc party function was so if you got tired of going lfg you could go somewhere pick up your trusty npcs and go to work

Another big reason they was added was because they play part of the story very much like KOTOR. Your actions will affect their view of you. I'm just curious to the number of companions you can find and if a life or death conflict can happen between you and them like in KOTOR.

Probably because all they ever talk about is single player/small group stories.

Sure they say it's going to have everything else other mmos have, but how many other games say they will have things and it turns out they meant have retarded cousin versions of the things they are talking about.

I don't doubt that there will be some pvp and raids in it.  Its whether or not they take backseat to the soloing and story is whats worrying me.

Everything I know and have seen right now points to this game sucking balls.  If they actually release some info not about a single-player quest, I'll be happy.  Info being actual info, not just saying it exists.

It's because us the realistic gamers that have been playing MMOs for a decade have developed a good ability to read between the lines of the BS that game devs are serving to us.

The typical fanbois don't have this ability and that's why we have arguments on forums.

But lets just see the facts:

- The material shown so far STRONGLY suggests it's a SPRPG disquised as a MMO.

- We have claims from Bioware devs saying the game will have all the usual MMO features but they refuse to tell us the very esential core features that should have been announced years before a game hits Alpha.

All this while people are already talking about BETA and 2010 release?

Really?

Think about this.

If Bioware have good ideas about the game' s core features they would have been talking about it by now, just like they like to yapp about all the SP features like story and voiceovers.

There is no logic what-so-ever in keeping the core features of your game "secret" when at same time you are trying to hype the game and can't stop yapping about features that are irrelevant to the genre , like VOs.

VOs are extras, bonus little features on top of your core features and mechanics.

The days when most of us blindly believed devs about everything they promise are over.

Only the silly fanbois still fall for it, most of us has been hassled out of our money way too many times.

Bioware or not I will not believe anything until they show it to me.

So far the game is a SPRPG that shamelesly tries to pass as a MMO.

It's up to Bioware to prove me wrong and that's the atitude that everyone should have, instead of being a blind fanboi always hoping for the best, easy to manipulate and take advantage of.

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

To answer your first question:

Because it is.

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that Bioware is known for making single player rpgs so some assume they will be doing the same here. Bioware needs to show group play in order for people to think otherwise. Some still stand by "seeing is believing" which I do not blame them.

Originally posted by vkayne

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

 

To answer your first question:

 

Because it is.

Cool story, bro.

Any reason why, or are you just trolling?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by tillamook

I think they have also said that if they are ready to reveal somethng, then you can trust that it isn't BS.

Thank goodness the devs will tell us when they aren't BSing us.

 

/sarcasm

Devs lie, and they don't tell us when they are lying.

Perhaps, or maybe you're thinking of another MMO company. I’m sure devs lie (all of us do), are misinformed, a little too hopeful at times, premature with their statements, but that has nothing to do with what I’m referring to. What I am referring to is the fact that they (BioWare) have taken the stance of not showing, or revealing anything unless it's positively going to be in the game and work.

This pisses people off because people always want to know more, but this means that unlike SOE they aren't gonna bullshit us into believing things like space, vehicles, houses ect are gonna be there day one because they haven’t said they are.To me that's integrity. 

That being said, I can understand your distrust and hostility towards most MMO companies, their teams ect.

BioWare is entitling us not to reveal anything unless it's 100% going to be in the release product.

As said above, I can understand the hostility towards this.  Most companies don't really follow this, but so far BioWare have delivered,

When BW starts giving solid details or videos of large group content and large scale PvP I will believe it is something other than what they have led us to believe. Saying a game has raids and PvP doesn't give us a whole lot of details. 10-man instancing could be their definition of raiding, 5vs5 battlegrounds could be their definition of PvP. Without those details people are going to be speculating and since all they have focused on is the standard single-player RPG features, thats where the speculation leads.

I hope for 40+ man raids and 100vs100 open world pvp battles but all I know is 2 people grouped together is a grouping experience and I'll have to turn voice overs off so it doesnt bother me when Im on vent.

 i used to laugh at stupidity, nowadays it just makes me realize how many dumb people are actually in the world.  All anyone knows about this game is everything you have been told, Not what you "think" will be in the game. Maybe you'll pick up on extra stuff in the game play vids but thats it. Get it through your head that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  If you want to pass something off as information with no proof what so ever then you need to add this at the end of your topic. "This is all just my opinion and in no way a proven fact." It makes you neither right or wrong. If you want facts, i suggest you GOOGLE IT.

     Read the official FAQ + dev vids/blogs,  it will be sure to be informative. Story arch in focus, player interaction takes the backseat. Dark times have come for the social player, now screwed we all are....

Originally posted by Tinybina

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

 

Usually "single player oriented" is used to described the pre-end game portion of an MMORPG.

It's not really relevant that the game has raids in the end.

WoW for example is considered a single player oriented game, or solo friendly, NOT because it doesn't have raids at the end which are of course forced grouping, but because the pre-end game portion of the game can easily be solo'ed all the way through.

It's solo friendly or single player oriented if you can solo easily all the way through the levels or skills. I believe rough estimates are that only less than 20% of a player base for any particular MMORPG actually plays the "end game" for any significant amount of time. So the pre-end game portion of the game is much more important than the "end game".

I think this game will look a lot like a solo friendly game, since you get NPC party members, and quests will probably scale so you can do them solo. The majority of the player base will probably be off in instances doing their quests solo, and group once in a while, till they get to the end game, then quit or roll an alt.

Even so, might still be fun, because KOTOR was a lot of fun even if it was a single player game.

 

 

 

 

What WOW did you play World at War? Becaues the WOW that I played (World of Warcraft) was full of group content way before you got close to the end game.  I mean hell before I hit  level freaking 30 their were already 5 or 6 grp instances that I could run with others.  If you want to sit here and say  how those could be soled at a low level go for it, but you would be dead wrong.

I think you would have been better off using a game like Champions Online as an example of a grp oriented MMO.

solo games are usually considered games you can easily solo to level cap, just as easily or almost as easily as grouping.

It's really irrelevant that there are instances that you CAN do with groups if you want to.

From everything i hae read on this game, I can't see how this is a single player based game, it has all the roots for a very fun and inivative  structure to it, I'm sure there will be plenty to do with friends, just got to wait and see what Bioware will give us,  good thing about Bioware is they know how to make their customers happy... so we shall see

I will wait and see what this game truly holds.  I'm a huge Star Wars fan, but am anti themepark mmo.  I'm guessing it will be a heavily instanced game with some kind of battleground area for the pvp.  As I said, I'm guessing.  If I'm right, I won't be touching this game with a 10 foot pole.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6228707&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2