Originally posted by Gutboy

The question that comes to mind for me now is, "how can an MMO possibly hope to survive when the people running it wipe out their players' progress in so many ways?"
 

 

So in other games the gear you get at max level before any expansions, lets select WoW for instance is still viable?

People are still running around with it, or have they moved on to the newer better gear available since then, which by your statements "wipes out players progress"?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but in a game like WoW, the underlying mechanics to continue progressing (be it level cap, crafting skill cap, etc) does not change from one expansion to the next. There are generally buffs and nerfs, but the game is still fundamentally the same.

As a more relevant example perhaps; A hunter in WoW will still have his/her pets post expansion right? Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?

edit for typos...yay

Originally posted by superniceguy

My city with the recent city house packup procedure implemented earlier this year, although kind of accepted it as it was wrong to build a city using dead accounts, but this sort of thing should have been in place when the city system was introcduced, not 5.5 years later!

SOE seem to like putting in buggy/flawed systems, which people then use as the norm, and then one day after a lot of time has passed, they then "fix" it.

The 90-Day Pack up, I believe at least, was the last final insult to some of Us who had so much taken away over the years and still (like a bunch of idiots...lol) stayed...It was the last straw for Me...I cancelled 3 Accounts...To Pack up Houses attached to STILL PAYING Customers well...That was a new and improved effort in screwing the Player Base...After the 90 Day thing it did not take long for My almost 4 Year Old Level 5 City to turn into a Ghost Town...I simply was not willing to go out and recruit again for a City that had 50 Citizens from PAYING Customers...They actually managed to piss off Folks who were still paying for, if not playing, the Game...Priceless...

Originally posted by Gutboy

The question that comes to mind for me now is, "how can an MMO possibly hope to survive when the people running it wipe out their players' progress in so many ways?"
 

 

So in other games the gear you get at max level before any expansions, lets select WoW for instance is still viable?

People are still running around with it, or have they moved on to the newer better gear available since then, which by your statements "wipes out players progress"?

 

Adding too is pretty much always a decent thing to do in an MMO.  However, it's the taking away that customers have the problem with.  In your example of WoW, these level items are just as viable at that level, still.  They just ADD additional levels with rewards to replace your suits/etc.  Then those items are still looked at as good equipment for that specific level.

Didn't you notice that when they gave jedi the new robes with GU-3 (NJE) that they did not take out the JMC?  And........., the JMC is still viable as many jedi who have not done the collections still have it.  That is good development.

On the other hand, logging in to find your entire profession gone, things you can solo yesterday 4 hit take you out today, combat stats that you relied upon and made your suit after, to be GONE or way less efective in a single patch is not so good development.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

I lost a triple master to the CU, but I was still pretty happy with master pike / master armorsmith... What really killed me was seeing that full template translate to cl60 with the NGE.  I tried a few times to go back to the game, but I can't make peace with the fact that all my homies were 90 and I couldn't do any of the same content as them.

Ouch that's a good example.  CU introduced the level system (erasing the much loved skill point system), but then NGE erased our levels lol.

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Gutboy

The question that comes to mind for me now is, "how can an MMO possibly hope to survive when the people running it wipe out their players' progress in so many ways?"
 

 

So in other games the gear you get at max level before any expansions, lets select WoW for instance is still viable?

People are still running around with it, or have they moved on to the newer better gear available since then, which by your statements "wipes out players progress"?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but in a game like WoW, the underlying mechanics to continue progressing (be it level cap, crafting skill cap, etc) does not change from one expansion to the next. There are generally buffs and nerfs, but the game is still fundamentally the same.

As a more relevant example perhaps; A hunter in WoW will still have his/her pets post expansion right? Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?

 

edit for typos...yay

I don't think WoW has ever eliminated over half of it's professions, wiped out people's levels or gutted a new paid expansion immediately after release either (or any of the other massive wipe outs we've talked about so far).

Sounds like spin cycle, set to maximum.   Kind of like comparing a small crack in your driveway to the grand canyon.

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

Originally posted by Gutboy

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

 

All of which means nothing, if you hate SWG/SOE  for the NGE so badly you canceled and never played again.

Originally posted by Gutboy

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

 

Simple question, only requires a yes or no answer:  Do you think it's good for an MMO to wipe out professions, player levels, quest progress, GCW rank, enjoyable content, enjoyable skills, an enjoyable skill system, enjoyable animations and the usefulness of crafting professions?

Follow up question.  Has wiping out all of these things (and more since I only listed a few) made the game more or less successful?

Originally posted by Gutboy

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

When I went back to the game to check it out, I had the option to stuff my pets. That was pretty much all I could do with them at the time. Therefore, my progression was essentially erased which I believe is relevant to the topic. If the BM profession makes use of those stuffed pets, then good for those who stuck it out.

That said, out of everyone's responses, it has to be a bit disheartening that you can only refute one.

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Gutboy

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

 

When I went back to the game to check it out, I had the option to stuff my pets. That was pretty much all I could do with them at the time. Therefore, my progression was essentially erased which I believe is relevant to the topic. If the BM profession makes use of those stuffed pets, then good for those who stuck it out.

That said, out of everyone's responses, it has to be a bit disheartening that you can only refute one.

I've also been told by CH friends that they had to wait something like 2 years for the option to stuff the pets that they used to tame, raise, train etc..  In the meantime, all they could do was stare at all their pets in their datapads.  And let's not forget the reason many people bought the last expansion: new creatures to tame; creature taming was then erased from the game two weeks later.

Additionally, I've heard that the variety of pets was also greatly reduced, and that pet characteristics have also been dumbed down. 

Really, I think this simply highlights more losses for players: pets in general for years, features in a brand new expansion, then the variety and personality of the original system; replaced by a Beastmaster WoW ripoff. 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Gutboy

"Post NGE, a CH would have....stuffed house decorations?"
 

That turned in the most desirable pets in the game like the Kimo or crystal snake or flit any of which are worth today hundreds of millions in credits or make the best pets in the beast master profession.

 

When I went back to the game to check it out, I had the option to stuff my pets. That was pretty much all I could do with them at the time. Therefore, my progression was essentially erased which I believe is relevant to the topic. If the BM profession makes use of those stuffed pets, then good for those who stuck it out.

That said, out of everyone's responses, it has to be a bit disheartening that you can only refute one.

I've also been told by CH friends that they had to wait something like 2 years for the option to stuff the pets that they used to tame, raise, train etc..  In the meantime, all they could do was stare at all their pets in their datapads.  And let's not forget the reason many people bought the last expansion: new creatures to tame; creature taming was then erased from the game two weeks later.

Additionally, I've heard that the variety of pets was also greatly reduced, and that pet characteristics have also been dumbed down. 

Really, I think this simply highlights more losses for players: pets in general for years, features in a brand new expansion, then the variety and personality of the original system; replaced by a Beastmaster WoW ripoff. 

that expansion was the biggest rip off ever after what they did to us everyone i know demanded their money back and quit telling $OE what we still tell them we want pre-cu

oh and pets are worthless in the nge from what i heard they take months to make and then all they do is dance lol it reminds me of when the nge first came out all anyone could do was dance

any bets on when dancing gets removed?

Originally posted by stillkillin

<snip>

 

that expansion was the biggest rip off ever after what they did to us everyone i know demanded their money back and quit telling $OE what we still tell them we want pre-cu

oh and pets are worthless in the nge from what i heard they take months to make and then all they do is dance lol it reminds me of when the nge first came out all anyone could do was dance

any bets on when dancing gets removed?

In all fairness, the pets in the NGE can learn many different skills once the Beast Master (BM) learns them. A particular type of beast can only learn a specific set of skills. Some top tier skills require an almost impossible to get Master Tamer Necklace (made with Mustafar glowies from cube) to learn.  Some skills seem harder to learn and yes, it can take a long time to acquire those top level skills.

That said, it does take a lot of time to get a pet to level 90. Expensive pet supplements may hurry the process a bit, but it is quite the grindfest. Most players now just AFK level their pets up. It generally takes 2-3 days to level a pet AFK AND get the pet to Best Friends Forever (BFF) status which allows it to learn top tier skills. Sadly, the 'forever' in BFF means little since the devs made a nerf that will allow a pet to drop from BFF to Loyal if it is killed too many times and/or is unhappy too long. Mind you, an unhappy pet already gaves a negative penalty to damage output and XP gain as it was, and still is.

While the devs kept revamping the combatant Expertise Trees, they made it so most of the combatant classes are seriously gimped (especially Jedi) if they want to go Master Beast Master. Medic and Combatant are the only professions that can somewhat effectively play Beast Master at this time. Some players will not even group with BM's for Heroics because they are considered more of a liability than an asset. There have been no adjustments made to BM expertise and none are planned.

A Beast Master cannot call out a combat droid and a pet at the same time, which means that they are shorted more DPS compared to non-BM combatants. The devs stated they are 'looking' into BM droid use.

The Mustafar Expansion refunds made forcing the unwanted NGE on the playerbase very costly and the mass exodus of players even more so.

Originally posted by Kazara

Originally posted by stillkillin

<snip>

 

that expansion was the biggest rip off ever after what they did to us everyone i know demanded their money back and quit telling $OE what we still tell them we want pre-cu

oh and pets are worthless in the nge from what i heard they take months to make and then all they do is dance lol it reminds me of when the nge first came out all anyone could do was dance

any bets on when dancing gets removed?

 

In all fairness, the pets in the NGE can learn many different skills once the Beast Master (BM) learns them. A particular type of beast can only learn a specific set of skills. Some top tier skills require an almost impossible to get Master Tamer Necklace (made with Mustafar glowies from cube) to learn.  Some skills seem harder to learn and yes, it can take a long time to acquire those top level skills.

That said, it does take a lot of time to get a pet to level 90. Expensive pet supplements may hurry the process a bit, but it is quite the grindfest. Most players now just AFK level their pets up. It generally takes 2-3 days to level a pet AFK AND get the pet to Best Friends Forever (BFF) status which allows it to learn top tier skills. Sadly, the 'forever' in BFF means little since the devs made a nerf that will allow a pet to drop from BFF to Loyal if it is killed too many times and/or is unhappy too long. Mind you, an unhappy pet already gaves a negative penalty to damage output and XP gain as it was, and still is.

While the devs kept revamping the combatant Expertise Trees, they made it so most of the combatant classes are seriously gimped (especially Jedi) if they want to go Master Beast Master. Medic and Combatant are the only professions that can somewhat effectively play Beast Master at this time. Some players will not even group with BM's for Heroics because they are considered more of a liability than an asset. There have been no adjustments made to BM expertise and none are planned.

A Beast Master cannot call out a combat droid and a pet at the same time, which means that they are shorted more DPS compared to non-BM combatants. The devs stated they are 'looking' into BM droid use.

The Mustafar Expansion refunds made forcing the unwanted NGE on the playerbase very costly and the mass exodus of players even more so.

 

Wow, great update Kaz.  Thanks much.
 

Originally posted by Hauken

The CU wiped out half my guild. Destroyed my doctor practice(And the business of the guy making the buff packs, the guys who supplied the guy who made the buff packs with resources)

The NGE wiped out the rest of my guild and 90% of the people on my friendlist. Wiped my jedi, wiped out the business of my three crafters, WS, chef and tailor. wiped out our city, and most effectivly wiped out all the fun of the game...

Prolly a lot more. Been playing LOTRO for two years now. Turbine hasnt taken away anything yet from my chars or gameplay. Actually they just keep adding shit. No wonder im still playing it....

Not that I agree with how SOE did everything,but I do see why they did it.To me there was very little challenge in SWG. Get Doc Buffs and Composite armor,Swordsman,Teri Kasi Master ,and Fencer and you could solo Huge Huge mobs and not be touched was a bit rediculous and needed to be nerfed hardcore.Now they could have done things alot better true.The game could have been balanced and fixed and never had to have CU,or NGE.