I read alot of hate on this forum and just about any MMORPG forum towards WoW (yes even WoW's own forum)

Many people say its a bad game, that only became successful because of its past RTS fanbase. But if thats the case, why hasnt Warhammer matched WoW, when it was lead by years of RPG fans?

Did Warhammer video game sales ever come close to Warcraft's?

There's your answer.

Horrible execution on GW's part.

Blizzard is the main reason for WOW's succes.

I dont think warcraft had a fanbase in the several milions mark. It's wow's game design, taken from other games to include pen and paper D&D, that led to it's success. The developers of WAR had a great IP to work with, but just squandered it with bad design decisions. If Mythic would have stuck with more of their original concepts of DOAC, this conversation could have easily been started off with asking why WoW hasn't beat out WAR.

It's bloody simple, even Blizzard will agree with this, how simple it is.  They've even mentioned this concept in speeches in the past.  Here, this is why at it's most fundamental level.

Control.

Blizzard doesn't release anything until it controls perfectly, until it feels naturally.  The feeling of control, is production number 1 on their devs minds and it is fine tuned, tweaked and perfected before anything else in the game is focused on.

That one thing alone, the feeling and sense of smoothness when you control your character or units in any blizzard game is the reason.  Say what you will about them I'm not here to defend them or whatever I'm just saying.  Warhammer ignored that concept.  Characters controlled and felt like shit.  That right there was...well you didn't really need anything else.  If you don't get that right, then the rest is meaningless.

Note to future game devs that don't want to be scrounging out of dumpsters looking for a dirty chicken wing when their game tanks and they end up tossed to the curb...focus on the controls first.  The "feel" behind the character, get that part absolutely perfect first, then worry about the rest.  Ignore that?  Don't say I didn't tell you so.

Most warhammer tabletop players did not want the game

lol

I imagine WoW became famous because it was the only one at the time to offer casual game play. In Everquest it took you about six months to a year to hit max level and in WoW it took you about a month. It was the first of the kind. I also believe it continues to stay famous because it is now a well polished game that offers many other options during game play. If you don't like to PvE then you can PvP or if you don't like large raids/guilds then you could do ten man raids/guilds. Add onto that crafting, exploring, dungeon crawls, low pc requirements, and you have found why it has become famous.

blizzard had one very compelling feature even when wow just began

and that was epic story ,wich braught ton of rper wich ......anyway like they say the rest is history,when player reached

world pvp wich was big back then (vanilla,pre-bc) made the game epic ,the rest ,bc and wotlk just had a snowball effect

in my view blizzard should be more active about their world pvp area ,like eastern plagueland in all bc etc

wow as ton of unused world area they could use as random pvp fight

but the initial of what made wow big was  epic story and insane world pvp .

Originally posted by tro44_1

I read alot of hate on this forum and just about any MMORPG forum towards WoW (yes even WoW's own forum)

Many people say its a bad game, that only became successful because of its past RTS fanbase. But if thats the case, why hasnt Warhammer matched WoW, when it was lead by years of RPG fans?

mmm well the main failing in your reasoning is blatant.

Warcraft = successful rts game, warcraft 2 = more success, warcraft 3 = huge success.

Let;'s also mention Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft.....need I go on?

Then let us look at Gamesworkshop computer games.

or let's not as thet are are all shite barring dawn of war1/2 and that is warhammer 40k.

The reason WAR isn't a wow killer is because in itself it is massively flawed and secondly has no community or history behind it or similar massivley successful products prior to launch.

Any dev looking to make an mmo should make AAA single/mp games first. build up a following, nuture it and build on it then go for an mmo.

Then you kill WoW.

Simples!

I would guess the blame falls squarely on the develpers, programmers, and the companies that funded them and told them what to do, how to do it, and when it would be ready. Blizzard has always had a "when it's ready" policy that has garnered them a well deserved reputation for excellence. Other companies are known for rushing thier games out before they are ready just to make some money.

Originally posted by Sober_Sean

It's bloody simple, even Blizzard will agree with this, how simple it is.  They've even mentioned this concept in speeches in the past.  Here, this is why at it's most fundamental level.

 

Control.

 

Blizzard doesn't release anything until it controls perfectly, until it feels naturally.  The feeling of control, is production number 1 on their devs minds and it is fine tuned, tweaked and perfected before anything else in the game is focused on.

 

That one thing alone, the feeling and sense of smoothness when you control your character or units in any blizzard game is the reason.  Say what you will about them I'm not here to defend them or whatever I'm just saying.  Warhammer ignored that concept.  Characters controlled and felt like shit.  That right there was...well you didn't really need anything else.  If you don't get that right, then the rest is meaningless.

 

Note to future game devs that don't want to be scrounging out of dumpsters looking for a dirty chicken wing when their game tanks and they end up tossed to the curb...focus on the controls first.  The "feel" behind the character, get that part absolutely perfect first, then worry about the rest.  Ignore that?  Don't say I didn't tell you so.

100% agree. This is number one, without that fluid responsive connection between user and avatar even the greatest game in the world will fail.

Originally posted by Palebane

I would guess the blame falls squarely on the develpers, programmers, and the companies that funded them and told them what to do, how to do it, and when it would be ready. Blizzard has always had a "when it's ready" policy that has garnered them a well deserved reputation for excellence. Other companies are known for rushing thier games out before they are ready just to make some money.

This, is exactly the way I see it as well. Ive said the same thing about Nintendo game consoles. They may be late to the party but their quality is second to none.  Warhammer  and AOC as well, hurried to get out their product thinking they could fix it on the fly. Problem is, nobody was willing to wait around for the fix.

Originally posted by Amblin

Originally posted by tro44_1

I read alot of hate on this forum and just about any MMORPG forum towards WoW (yes even WoW's own forum)

Many people say its a bad game, that only became successful because of its past RTS fanbase. But if thats the case, why hasnt Warhammer matched WoW, when it was lead by years of RPG fans?

 

mmm well the main failing in your reasoning is blatant.

Warcraft = successful rts game, warcraft 2 = more success, warcraft 3 = huge success.

Let;'s also mention Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft.....need I go on?

Then let us look at Gamesworkshop computer games.

or let's not as thet are are all shite barring dawn of war1/2 and that is warhammer 40k.

The reason WAR isn't a wow killer is because in itself it is massively flawed and secondly has no community or history behind it or similar massivley successful products prior to launch.

Any dev looking to make an mmo should make AAA single/mp games first. build up a following, nuture it and build on it then go for an mmo.

Then you kill WoW.

Simples!

 

 

mm i have a hard deal with what you write ,but the analogie is flawless

exemple l1 one was soso,l2 get release  that serie become popular same with wow

what help a game a lot is when the game story is epic ,anmd wow story is epic not on one game but

it spawn on 4 game ,so if some plasyer want to know or experience the serie they got to go back

some game try like final fantasy it goes from 1 to 12 but the story isnt there

but in warcraft story has been the major part of what started and continue their succes

WoW keeps evolving, something new to MMO's comes out and Blizz  takes it improves it then adds it to WoW. Like the WAR keep siege, RvR lake, guild ranks, guild standards, guild alliances, ect... Cataclysm has all that and more. Only thing WAR has that WoW doesn't have is Public Quests, but who knows Blizz may be adding that too. That and the WAR lore is lame, WoW lore makes you care about the characters. (I'm sad that Thrall is leaving the Horde and that Cairne Bloodhoof will be killed by Garrosh)

 mm probably right but i bet no game will ever have gone has far as blizzard is going without actually making a new game

cataclysm expension goes so far a lot of gamer call it wow 2

and if blizzard mod wow to be phazable like they seem to plan ,expending in the futur will be a breeze for blizzard compared to 

most mmo.phaze techno will make lot of stuff blizzard couldnt do in the past possible in the futur

IMO Warhammer could never be as successful as WoW because it has MUCH higher system requirements. Too many ppl have mediocre computers and people won't play games that they lag in.

For instance,my old PC ran WoW like a dream. I bought LoTRO and I got 25 fps and really bad lag. I bought another PC in early 07 and upgraded the video card and RAM. Then I played in max settings at 60-70 fps in LoTRO. 

A year and  a half later, I tried War and AoC. To my dismay, I got 16-24 fps and hellish lag playing in the lowest settings!! I wasn't ready to buy another whole PC and upgrade everything again to SEE if I liked  AoC or War. I gave up after a week of lagginess and never subbed after the free periods.

You all forgot the part where Blizzard owned almost already all of the market with SC, Diablos and WCs. And it is also REALLY easy to get into WoW compared to other games.

WoW was the right game at the right time.

It was the first AAA MMO to cater for the casual player, and it took Theme Park MMO's to a new level.

Having the Blizzard brand on it sealed the fate of the game.

Personally I have loved every game they have made, exept WoW. WoW to me would have made a better single player game than it does an MMO. Yeah, I know Raiding a and stuff, but really you can play the game from start to level cap without ever having to interact with anyone. Most of the time other players are more an annoyance than anything else. A few MMO's like Guild Wars and and Dungeons & Dragons solve this by instancing all, and to me, that actually works better. Sure pretty much takes out at least one of the M's of MMO, but it plays better that way. I like to call them MLO's Massively Lobbied Online games,be course the in fact are just solo/co-op games, not true MMO's as such. (That is a quality! Dont get me wrong...)

For real MMO experiances I turn to EvE which is my personal favorite MMO.

Because WARs client is buggy and runs like shit 99% of the time. Mythic keeps adding to the game without fixing the god damn client.

There's no excuse for such an average looking game to run and stutter like its running a god damn Crysis 2 engine.

Because any video game following GW has is in 40k through the Dawn of War series. At the two stores I have spent a lot of time playing the tabletop neither store had a large following of WAR players, though many did play wow. WAR was poorly executed and that is what kept it form getting larger numbers.

Originally posted by Sober_Sean

It's bloody simple, even Blizzard will agree with this, how simple it is.  They've even mentioned this concept in speeches in the past.  Here, this is why at it's most fundamental level.

 

Control.

 

Blizzard doesn't release anything until it controls perfectly, until it feels naturally.  The feeling of control, is production number 1 on their devs minds and it is fine tuned, tweaked and perfected before anything else in the game is focused on.

 

That one thing alone, the feeling and sense of smoothness when you control your character or units in any blizzard game is the reason.  Say what you will about them I'm not here to defend them or whatever I'm just saying.  Warhammer ignored that concept.  Characters controlled and felt like shit.  That right there was...well you didn't really need anything else.  If you don't get that right, then the rest is meaningless.

 

Note to future game devs that don't want to be scrounging out of dumpsters looking for a dirty chicken wing when their game tanks and they end up tossed to the curb...focus on the controls first.  The "feel" behind the character, get that part absolutely perfect first, then worry about the rest.  Ignore that?  Don't say I didn't tell you so.

You hit the nail on the head with this one, I play AION as well as WoW and AION is a brilliant game but everytime I log into WoW that smoothness in the controls just stands out, the fluid gameplay the responsiveness of the skills is unmatched atm.

Originally posted by Sober_Sean

It's bloody simple, even Blizzard will agree with this, how simple it is.  They've even mentioned this concept in speeches in the past.  Here, this is why at it's most fundamental level.

 Control.

 Blizzard doesn't release anything until it controls perfectly, until it feels naturally.  The feeling of control, is production number 1 on their devs minds and it is fine tuned, tweaked and perfected before anything else in the game is focused on.

Gotta admit, there are some days when I'm playing a game not made by Blizzard or Valve that I wonder whether other developers actually play games.  (granted there are plenty of other companies I feel "get it right", but in the MMORPG space it's just Blizzard really.)

The reason Warhammer hasn't done as well as wow is because it is a bad game.  Almost everything about the game has problems that prevent it from being fully enjoyable. 

The true problem with Warhammer is that Mythic really thought they had a homerun on their hands. They rushed the game to market in 3 years (even after delaying for 1 full year) and it is obvious it was not tested enough.  The flaws in the game design showed themself within a few weeks of play.

well, brand loyalty is definately part of wow's success.  But on top of that wow is a good game.

Smoothness definitely plays a part in wows success. When I played warhammer I felt that smoothness lacking by alot. My pet did not listen to my commands and there was a slight delay on spells. One thing I think also is good with wow is that you have so many places to go to when leveling up. I always plan what to do next in wow. Will I stay in zone, go some dungeon or change zone?  Felt that lacking in warhammer.