If you could add/change/remove one thing in MMORPGs, what would it be?

I would get rid of all vendor trash. It serves no useful purpose and fills up your bags faster, so you have to waste more time travelling back to a vendor.

Let's try to keep comments positive. Suggest your own ideas, but don't shoot down those others have posted. Trust me, it's hard for me to hold back on my own criticisms, so if I can do it, you can.

I guess most would say the leveling..but i quite enjoy that.

 I guess i'd change the class variation mmo's have! we just need more classes. I love to have the option to pick from 100 races and 100 classes (each unique ofcourse) But yeah...then comes BALANCE..which ...is another..story.

I'd say add more things!

Everyone younger than 20 would be teleported onto a WOW server automaticly. Regardless of what game you currently play.

Yep, vendor trash is a pain. Why not just increase cash drops?

I'd change drop-rates on quest items. If you send me to collect 10 ogre heads, I shouldn't have to kill 25 ogres to get them. It annoys me to kill an ogre only to find that he doesn't have a head. It looked like he had a head when I attacked him. Surely I'd notice if it was missing. Heads aren't the most trivial of possessions to lose.

If you want me to kill 25 ogres then send me to collect 25 heads and make them a 100% drop rate. Oh, and teleport all WoW-haters into a steaming pit of bantha poodoo.

Levels whatsoever, yes.

Levels is the dumbest way to handle experiences and is totaly unrealistic.

The thing I want to add is realism and better AI. It is 2 things but they really go hand in hand, you can't add realism without a better AI.

When a bunch of orcs see adventurers slaughtering other orcs a bit away they should really either run or join the fray, not continue what they were doing. And tanking someone is impossible against a human.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Yep, vendor trash is a pain. Why not just increase cash drops?

I'd change drop-rates on quest items. If you send me to collect 10 ogre heads, I shouldn't have to kill 25 ogres to get them. It annoys me to kill an ogre only to find that he doesn't have a head. It looked like he had a head when I attacked him. Surely I'd notice if it was missing. Heads aren't the most trivial of possessions to lose.

If you want me to kill 25 ogres then send me to collect 25 heads and make them a 100% drop rate.

Good one. I agree, but 99% is ok. Sometimes you accidently kill the ogre a little bit too good.

Also, Why do I have to kill 15 Mammoths to get enough leather to make a belt? A single one should be enough for a smaller tent.

Some good suggestions already, guys.

BTW, Warhammer  has 100% drop rate on quest items. Mythic didn't screw up everything in that game.

CONSEQUENCES!

wanna be the ganker griefer doom from hell who full loot every being under the sun? RIGHT! go for it, make u famous! so famous every guard on the city will hunt u, u will have bounties on u, merchants wont like to trade with u and go on...

wanna be the ultimate paladin who has to save all, powered by the power of <insert deyty here> god to shmash the hordes of evil from this world? RIGHT go for it, but u paladin u must be LAWFULL GOOD! wich means ALWAYS help! alwasy sacrifice urself in benefit of othser, then u gain ur magnificient powers, donate HALF u money to the church, and maybe u get acess to special discounts on merchants and go on...

something like that i dream to see one day in a mmorpg =)

Originally posted by darkgamerx

I guess most would say the leveling..but i quite enjoy that.

 I guess i'd change the class variation mmo's have! we just need more classes. I love to have the option to pick from 100 races and 100 classes (each unique ofcourse) But yeah...then comes BALANCE..which ...is another..story.

I'd say add more things!

One of the things I would like to change is the communities perception of balance.

Balance is a myth, it cannot exist. This is for a simple reason; every players' definition of balance places their class just slightly ahead of compeating classes.

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Balance is a myth, it cannot exist. This is for a simple reason; every players' definition of balance places their class just slightly ahead of compeating classes.

Don't you mean behind?

Get rid of leveling or make it so fast that you can reach the cap in 24 hours, solo. Make the content revolve around gear, wealth, and resources instead of xp.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

If you could add/change/remove one thing in MMORPGs, what would it be?

I would get rid of all vendor trash. It serves no useful purpose and fills up your bags faster, so you have to waste more time travelling back to a vendor.

TRUE IT MAKES SENSE FOR THAT DIRE BOAR TO DROP 50 BUCKS IN CASH!

Er, sorry my Sarcasm Lock was on.

Dear sir, I respectfully disagree with your assertation that trash drops should be removed.  They exist as a method for logically dropping 'money' from enemies who it wouldn't make sense to be carrying around cash.  Additionally they pace gameplay in a way that forces players not to do one task over-repetitively (because they will if inventory limitations or quests don't force them to; then they'll hate you and your game for being repetitive.)  Thank you for your time.

Better.

Get rid of the concept of endgame, the whole of the game should be "endgame", which would mean getting rid of the artificial level mechanism, but then, i like skill based games and sandboxes where most of the content comes from the players, as players are endlessly innovative whereas devs are limited in what they can push out in any expansion.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

If you could add/change/remove one thing in MMORPGs, what would it be?

I would get rid of all vendor trash. It serves no useful purpose and fills up your bags faster, so you have to waste more time travelling back to a vendor.

TRUE IT MAKES SENSE FOR THAT DIRE BOAR TO DROP 50 BUCKS IN CASH!

Er, sorry my Sarcasm Lock was on.

Dear sir, I respectfully disagree with your assertation that trash drops should be removed.  They exist as a method for logically dropping 'money' from enemies who it wouldn't make sense to be carrying around cash.  Additionally they pace gameplay in a way that forces players not to do one task over-repetitively (because they will if inventory limitations or quests don't force them to; then they'll hate you and your game for being repetitive.)  Thank you for your time.

Better.

Well, this thread really wasn't intended as a chance to dump on other people's ideas, but since you did:

1 - Have the mob drop crafting mats instead of useless items.

2 - Having them drop money makes as much sense as dropping weapons and armour they could never use.

3 - you think it's more fun to have to run back to a vendor once in a while?

Originally posted by Loke666

Levels whatsoever, yes.

Levels is the dumbest way to handle experiences and is totaly unrealistic.

The thing I want to add is realism and better AI. It is 2 things but they really go hand in hand, you can't add realism without a better AI.

When a bunch of orcs see adventurers slaughtering other orcs a bit away they should really either run or join the fray, not continue what they were doing. And tanking someone is impossible against a human.

Aye, a better AI is amongst the top of the list of things I'd like to see improved in MMORPGs. To have mobs and npc's react more logically and to interact with the environment and each other in stead of just following a predetermined pattern. 

Also less class and level focus would be a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Well, this thread really wasn't intended as a chance to dump on other people's ideas, but since you did:

1 - Have the mob drop crafting mats instead of useless items.

2 - Having them drop money makes as much sense as dropping weapons and armour they could never use.

3 - you think it's more fun to have to run back to a vendor once in a while?

1. True, and I'm a fan of the system my last boss created for Titan Quest, where animals were basically the source of the better "gems" in the game, since you'd make talismans out of rare drops from them.

2. Also true, and if rare drops only came from humanoids nobody would fight beasts.  The existing mix of beasts dropping trash greys but still having rare items is a result of trying to minimize the silliness while still giving you reason to fight beasts (which my gut instinct has always been to not have mundane creatures in a fantasy game, but that idea of mine is just as much a target for 'Sarcasm Lock'.)

3. I think it's a hidden pacing mechanic which keeps games interesting.  Anytime you let players do something repetitive in a game and attach value to it, they will do that thing repetitively.  If you don't force them to vary their task through a semi-logical mechanic (like returning to town to sell or get new quests) then they will eternally fight the same mob -- then they'll get bored and blame you for making a boring game.

Which isn't to say there aren't better mechanics out there.  If there's some other reason to want to fight a variety of monsters, players will chase after that -- and it might very well replace vendor trash.

More on topic, my one change:

• Combat systems which require the player to be awake.  After WOW I never thought I'd have to suggest this but well...after WOW the other companies still failed to implement combat systems where the player mattered.  Thus they were quickly tedious and uninteresting (and easily macroed/botted.)
  
  Basically, that mob might be beatable by sitting there and auto-attacking (if the game even has auto-attack), but you're going to do 15% better if you interrupt his spell at the right time, 15% better if you hit your dodge ability when he charges his big attack, 15% better when you hit your instant attack during his vulnerability, etc -- adding up to a game where there are a lot of things to react to which add up to your character being far more combat efficient.

Originally posted by Kenaoshi

CONSEQUENCES!

wanna be the ganker griefer doom from hell who full loot every being under the sun? RIGHT! go for it, make u famous! so famous every guard on the city will hunt u, u will have bounties on u, merchants wont like to trade with u and go on...

wanna be the ultimate paladin who has to save all, powered by the power of <insert deyty here> god to shmash the hordes of evil from this world? RIGHT go for it, but u paladin u must be LAWFULL GOOD! wich means ALWAYS help! alwasy sacrifice urself in benefit of othser, then u gain ur magnificient powers, donate HALF u money to the church, and maybe u get acess to special discounts on merchants and go on...

something like that i dream to see one day in a mmorpg =)

This. Consequences and more to do than just "Combat".

It would be nice to see loot upgrades take a backseat to community and loyalty.  I envision a faction based PvP game where everyone on a faction works together so that everyone benefits equally. And of course they would work together to stop the opposing factions.

Originally posted by Axehilt

More on topic, my one change:

• Combat systems which require the player to be awake.  After WOW I never thought I'd have to suggest this but well...after WOW the other companies still failed to implement combat systems where the player mattered.  Thus they were quickly tedious and uninteresting (and easily macroed/botted.)
  
  Basically, that mob might be beatable by sitting there and auto-attacking (if the game even has auto-attack), but you're going to do 15% better if you interrupt his spell at the right time, 15% better if you hit your dodge ability when he charges his big attack, 15% better when you hit your instant attack during his vulnerability, etc -- adding up to a game where there are a lot of things to react to which add up to your character being far more combat efficient.

I'd like to see combat that required more time and thought - as long as it was rewarded appropriately. If you are grinding mobs for xp in WoW, you're foolish to grind ones which are 3 or 4 levels higher, as the time and risk involved are not matched by the rewards. Elite mobs are a better payoff, but they take much more time to kill. More than it would take to kill the xp equivalent in non-elites.

You can push the envelope to a small degree in WoW (too high and you have NO chance), but the game does not reward the risk or time required to do so.

So, in general, yes, I like your idea. More interesting fights - as long as they are rewarded fairly.

Originally posted by Palebane

It would be nice to see loot upgrades take a backseat to community and loyalty.  I envision a faction based PvP game where everyone on a faction works together so that everyone benefits equally. And of course they would work together to stop the opposing factions.

That's what Warhammer was supposed to be. Which is why I was so excited before release.

It never happened. Virtually everything was some loot grind.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Palebane

It would be nice to see loot upgrades take a backseat to community and loyalty.  I envision a faction based PvP game where everyone on a faction works together so that everyone benefits equally. And of course they would work together to stop the opposing factions.

That's what Warhammer was supposed to be. Which is why I was so excited before release.

It never happened. Virtually everything was some loot grind.

I agree. It would also be nice to have more than 2 or 3 factions. Like Horizons was supposed to be or how Fallen Earth would have been if there was no faction hopping.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Palebane

It would be nice to see loot upgrades take a backseat to community and loyalty.  I envision a faction based PvP game where everyone on a faction works together so that everyone benefits equally. And of course they would work together to stop the opposing factions.

That's what Warhammer was supposed to be. Which is why I was so excited before release.

It never happened. Virtually everything was some loot grind.

This sounds an awful lot like wishfully thinking Communism would work, without comprehending that that's just not how humans are wired. 

Originally posted by Axehilt

This sounds an awful lot like wishfully thinking Communism would work, without comprehending that that's just not how humans are wired. 

Very interesting article - though I'd be more impressed if there weren't pictures of chimpanzees when monkeys are being discussed.

I must be one amazing monkey, as I think of every human as a person, rather than a thing.

Thanks for the link.

Warhammer must have been designed by very small-minded monkeys, indeed.

Did you ever read 'Stranger in a Strange Land' or 'The Selfish Gene'?

I wouldnt really change anything. Cause for as long as there are MMO's there will be grinding,leveling, and imature and unskilled players. And thats the way I like my MMOs.

It would have to be cutting down on the solo content. To say 60/40 solo /grouping.