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Originally posted by Horusra
Gold sellers might cause 10% inflation in a game while max level Alt players cause 200% inflation.  If not for your alt players coming back buying the products the prices could not get that high.  You think a brand new player in WoW has 1 gold for a sword, ore, or whatever...no the alt player does and pays for it.  So your alt player is causing inflation by trying to outcompete other alt players.  I fail to see why anti-gold sellers can not see this simple fact.

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Well put. At one point I left WoW and went back to it about a year later. The amount of gold my character had the previous year had been adequate for her level. Upon my return I could not even afford to equip my character at the AH due to the massive inflation.

The characters my level were all alts, and they had plenty of money to equip themselves. Unwilling to buy gold, I quit permanently soon after.

Managed to read 14 pages of this thread and thats enough. My opinion is that In general guys who buy gold usually complain that they don't have time to spend to get all the equipment/mounts/game currency by playing. Maybe you shouldn't play? If you don't have time to play why you even start? Find yourself a game that doesn't need plenty of effort/time.

People who buy gold/items later complain that there is nothing to do in the endgame. It's their own fault - buying stuff means you are resigning from playing part of the game that is f.e. required to get certain parts/items. Thats also one of the reasons why so many new mmorpgs are so weak in terms of content - plenty of you buyers are not interested in anything apart from the endgame. Too bad you probably don't know half of the game you play anyway.

@ topic: never bought, and never will. Got better things to spend my money on. I'd rather take my time in mmorpg and get stuff by myself/with friends. No need to rush.

And yes - i know what grind is - played Anarchy Online without buying stuff and altho I never did 220 on my shade(I think I stopped on 208/15) I got all the items by myself/friends and I was proud of it, especially if that was some hard stuff to get.

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Originally posted by skarwolf
 How is it cheating to buy gold ?  I have yet to see a logical explanation.  
 

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Yes, you have. I stated it twice. Some other people repeated it. Stop ignoring it.

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

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Originally posted by heremypet

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Originally posted by zaxxon23

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Originally posted by sonicbrew

Anyone that buys this crap should stop gaming period because they honestly forgot the reason they started playing games in the first place!

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This is another problem with the logic of the anti-rmters.  MMOs are not counterstrike, they're not command and conquer, they're not games in the general sense of the word.  They are persistent online environments, with no winner and no loser, and no beginning or end.
You guys just can't comprehend this, and will never understand why you are so darn ignorant about it.  You think it's "clear" that people cheat when they rmt, but you just can't wrap your silly minds around the bigger picture.

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Games have rules.
Breaking the rules is cheating.
What were we arguing about again?

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And developers of the games make the rules. So if they put in a cash shop, the RULES of the games SUPPORT RMT. What is the problem? It is not cheating if it is sanctioned.

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Very true. Buying from a developer-sanctioned cash shop is, by definition, not cheating. Having a developer-sanctioned cash shop makes for a crappy game that I will never play, but buying from it is not cheating.

Originally posted by Horusra

Gold sellers might cause 10% inflation in a game while max level Alt players cause 200% inflation.  If not for your alt players coming back buying the products the prices could not get that high.  You think a brand new player in WoW has 1 gold for a sword, ore, or whatever...no the alt player does and pays for it.  So your alt player is causing inflation by trying to outcompete other alt players.  I fail to see why anti-gold sellers can not see this simple fact.

Because it's not an "either/or" situation. Neither situation is mutually exclusive and the situation differs between games. What you're discussing *does* happen. But it has nothing to do with the fact that there are bots out there doing their thing, helping to maintain higher costs on rare items, while cornering markets on more common ones. This is how they *conduct their business*.  Keeping prices higher = people buy more money. Controlling a market on crafting materials, etc. = people have to buy from them, giving them more money to sell. I can't tell you how many times I've seen listings for an item practically dominated by a single character which happened to be named something like "Dxdxfjfjdkllpp". You really think that's a legit player?

Again... just using my FFXI example as proof.. the inflation was caused by the RMT dominating all the high-value items. As soon as SE started to fight them, all the prices dropped substantially... Players had little or no role in that, end game or otherwise. It was RMT all the way.

You're trying real hard to defend if not deflect focus away from RMT here, consistently ignoring or dismissing all evidence to the contrary. Ignorance of the facts is not a defense against them.

 

No matter if your buying gold from a online seller or a developer sanctioned website, it doesn't matter. The gold all goes back into the "pot" for everyone else.

So if i were to buy 15000g for my chopper in wow (which btw is ridiculous) that money would go directly back into the economy of that realm if not the whole system.

1 thing that people have to understand in every MMO is that every item from the lowest grade to the highest HAS NO value what so ever, it what you the player thinks it should sell for. So really the economies are screwed from the begining by the player becuase the player thinks that this EPIC item should sell for 10000G when in reality it would only sell for like 500g. That it why people justify buying gold, to pay for someone elses wet dream. 

Steve, i agree with you except with how all the money goes back into the "Pot" because if you grind the items you get from grinding are infinite and when you sell it it adds to the pot and therefore unbalances the game

Originally posted by stevekr21

No matter if your buying gold from a online seller or a developer sanctioned website, it doesn't matter. The gold all goes back into the "pot" for everyone else.

So if i were to buy 15000g for my chopper in wow (which btw is ridiculous) that money would go directly back into the economy of that realm if not the whole system.

1 thing that people have to understand in every MMO is that every item from the lowest grade to the highest HAS NO value what so ever, it what you the player thinks it should sell for. So really the economies are screwed from the begining by the player becuase the player thinks that this EPIC item should sell for 10000G when in reality it would only sell for like 500g. That it why people justify buying gold, to pay for someone elses wet dream. 

It doesn't go back into the pot when it works like this because these ppl have no intention of spreading or spending it unless it's to secure a market. One for cash.

I post something really expensive and you desire it.

I advertise for you to buy gold.

You buy my gold.

You buy my item.

I have your gold and your money.

Just keep posting something overpriced and rinse, repeat.

Everything crystal? Oldie moldies called it being hornswaggled.

Within 3 mos you wont like it - it'll be old and plain looking, and you'll fancy something else because you believe the value will make you feel good inside plus you will impress ppl around you. And I'll be waiting for your money - your real money, right here with my new item and the ability to come out of it with your real money and your in game money... and you will hand it over with a cheerful smirk because you fooled me huh I'm just a dumb old farmer. I play a video game for a living and you pay me to do it along with all the others. I don't sweat doing construction nor flip burgers, you might tho. but as long as you can pay me, we be friends yes?  Next year I'm going to ask for healthcare :P

I do feel guilty about that.  I did the first time in Lineage 2 (because let's face it, if you've played the game you know its not possible to play unless you buy gold). Although I've also bought it in GW because I just didn't have time to grind for it and I didn't take that game too seriously, was more just about the PvP.

Originally posted by stevekr21

No matter if your buying gold from a online seller or a developer sanctioned website, it doesn't matter. The gold all goes back into the "pot" for everyone else.

So if i were to buy 15000g for my chopper in wow (which btw is ridiculous) that money would go directly back into the economy of that realm if not the whole system.

1 thing that people have to understand in every MMO is that every item from the lowest grade to the highest HAS NO value what so ever, it what you the player thinks it should sell for. So really the economies are screwed from the begining by the player becuase the player thinks that this EPIC item should sell for 10000G when in reality it would only sell for like 500g. That it why people justify buying gold, to pay for someone elses wet dream. 

No, gold farmers dont really have expenses, unlike players, so not only do they produce more gold than a player would but they dont use gold sinks. A small operation (thats just a few bots) wreaks a havoc on the economy not unlike that of an extra 30-50 players being added to the server (yes, its an educated guess based on how much youd have to make to recoup costs and turn a profit). Large scale gold farming operations get much worse, and a single server may be suporting several of both kinds. Think about what the average gold transaction would actually cost a real player in time and multiply that for what your best estimate is at the daily number of such trades. Thats how much faster youre bringing a servers economy down.

Never have and never will.

It is cheating pure and simple in my opinion.

The only place that I've bought 'gold' was in Secondlife, before the introduction of the SLExchange. It was through the folks that use to own XstreetSL (I forget what it was called before, forgive me). Everything else, what's the point? I'm not the kind of person that feels bad about having a toon with non-set or tier gear. So, I don't feel the need to buy my way to 'uberdom' or whatever.

Folks that want to buy their way to excellence are the kind of folks that often want to skip to the end of a movie or book, they're more about the immediate gratification. And all more for them, as it means they'll always be ready to drop a few coins for that moment, which they perceive as more valuable, of pleasure they wanted. I don't think they should be punished or rewarded, I just want them to be ready to acknowledge some of us have no issue with waiting for things or that we savor the experience over the sheer quantity of sensory input (as pleasure).

And as such, I think there should be games that are catered to them, but please, for the love of everyone's sanity, quit trying to barge into games that don't cater to it (like EQ2, Aion, Fallen Earth, and etc). Let us low time preference folks have some peace and you high time preference folks can have your microtranscation games.

I bought 2-3 times and I sold 1 time :)