Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Gameloading

Is pvp more challenging than pve? well obviously that depends on the game but in most cases it is because AI in mmorpgs is very basic. A human player is completely unpredictable. Your arguments against pvp play are silly. Only against people who you have a class advantage over or people who aren't good players? Have you ever actually played a PVP game? You don't actually get to pick your fights and you don't know how good a player is untill you beat him or her. It's an MMORPG world with thousands of players, chances are you'll be fighting new players pretty often if not all the time.

Are you kidding?  How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging?  Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too?  The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time.  In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins.   And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real.  You are raiding Kael?  Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC.  Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...

Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content.  I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes.  Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.

PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter

PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter

Which one is really more enjoyable?  Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless?  That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems.  Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.  

And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place?  MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people.  40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile.  Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.

So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP.  PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.)  When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP.  It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players.  There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.

Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.

Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.

Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.

Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.

I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.

Originally posted by bastii

It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time. 

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

Technically even if aion have sub 100k players, they won't join fails like aoc, warhammer, vanguard, eq2.  Because you forget to add the few million players outside of the US.

one thing is sure ,all aion will meet in the same area at one point and ncsoft  will time it so both faction if they want  to progress

No, it won't fail.

But I've given up on it for now, due to:

• terrible camera controls.
• excessive PVE repetition that takes the genre a step backwards.
• poorly-designed PVP (kinda ridiculous to have someone from from 1 foot away to out of spell range, in the 2 sec it took to cast my frostbolt spell.)
• poorly-designed world objectives (Didn't they learn from WAR that 8+ mins of attacking a stationary wall isn't fun?)

I might eventually try it again, but for now I'll revert to my TF2-for-PVP, WOW-for-PVE split of gaming, which has worked out nicely.  And I suppose I've been playing a non-trivial amount of Haven & Hearth for my sandbox fix too.

If you don't like the game why does it matter to you if it closes up shop or not?

I agree all this fail or no fail is just stupid. If you like the game play it. Im tired of all these posts wanting a game to fail.

Originally posted by bastii

It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time. 

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

Aion had sold 400k pre - orders. To compare, thats just as many copies as Everquest had subscribers at its peak.
If many people left because of the queues then the queues would be gone. But they aren't. Want to know why? Because people are really enjoying the game.

There is no hacking that i'm aware of, definitly nothing serious. Huge grind you mention is non - existant.

Also if NCsoft let their servers get botted, then so does Blizzard. What, you thought WoW had no bots?

Originally posted by grunty

If you don't like the game why does it matter to you if it closes up shop or not?

thats exacly what i dont get too.

they  keep trying to convince aion suck at end game but none have3 seen end game

and they got to pvp in raid mode while having big chance of being ganked by balaur

then they all say it will be easy ,lol unless they really try hard to avoid each other

they will have to fight on a lot of front at once

Originally posted by bastii

It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

 

 

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time. 

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

You obviously were nt there on the opening months of WoW or you would nt have posted this . You obviously hav nt played Aion either saying its a huge grind . You obviously dont remember what WoW was like for goldsellers a couple of years ago  . BEWARE OF THE TROLL
 

While I personally don't care a whole lot whether the game survives or dies, the reason others want it to fail is pretty obvious:

If games you don't like die, less of those types of games will be made.

I do tire of the "fail" discussions every new MMORPG gets.  And what it's normally based upon is a matter of preference and taste instead of the game actually being horribly designed and flawed.

Originally posted by googajoob7

Originally posted by bastii

It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

 

 

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time. 

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

You obviously were nt there on the opening months of WoW or you would nt have posted this . You obviously hav nt played Aion either saying its a huge grind . You obviously dont remember what WoW was like for goldsellers a couple of years ago  . BEWARE OF THE TROLL
 

ytue i recall vanilla wow ,hell aion as a smooth lunch compared to vanilla wow

wow is huge ,aion will get huge too.unless ncsoft make a mistake

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by bastii

It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time. 

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

Aion had sold 400k pre - orders. To compare, thats just as many copies as Everquest had subscribers at its peak.
If many people left because of the queues then the queues would be gone. But they aren't. Want to know why? Because people are really enjoying the game.

There is no hacking that i'm aware of, definitly nothing serious. Huge grind you mention is non - existant.

Also if NCsoft let their servers get botted, then so does Blizzard. What, you thought WoW had no bots?

Spot on with logic.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Mortemia

Originally posted by Ginkeq

What happened to games where you could PvP anywhere at any time?  That would be a real PvP game.

I'm sure you know there are lots of games with a free PvP? EVE, Dorkfall, Jumpgate E, Vanguard...

 

Out of those games that I've played (EVE), I couldn't really call that real PvP.  If you PvP someone in a high security zone you will get destroyed by NPCs.  Other than that, EVE is a crap game where you just have to wait x years of RL time to build up skill trees.  And who could enjoy PvP in a game like EVE?  Target your opponent then hit a few buttons and go afk.  Not enough control in EVE for it to be a decent PvP game.

You're pretty clueless.  I'm hoping your just trolling, for your sake and the sake of your future children.

Aion will certainly not fail.

Originally posted by Gameloading

There is no hacking that i'm aware of, definitly nothing serious. Huge grind you mention is non - existant.

Also if NCsoft let their servers get botted, then so does Blizzard. What, you thought WoW had no bots?

Well, your wrong about there being no hack.  It just happen that not much people is using it in the west. 

A few month ago, a hack start on the China server.  With the hack 3 people can literally kill a whole army.  But so many people is using the hack now, even if you use it, you won't be particular powerful.  Supposely an unreliable source says the Korean developer will fix it next patch, but it's not fix yet. 

If I went to the China and Taiwan Aion discussion board, 20% of the topic is about bot and hacks.  Though I don't read Korean, but as far as I know the cheating problem is as bad in Korea. 

But on the other hand if I went to the chinese Wow discussion board, I hear next to no complaint about hacks and bots.  Well, there are definately bot in Wow, but just not as bad.  I could literally walking around in Aion and I think 25% of the people are bots.

But you won't have the problem on the western server and the japan server.  Since in general very few cheaters play on the western and japan server.

First... You are a Troll...

Second... Sounds like you dont know what you talking about (if u do something is out of your mind)

Third... There isnt a grind like you need 1 billion of xp to level up and mobs only throw to you 100 xp (So far AION have the biggest xp per mob killer I ever seen, higher than galaxies pre CU)

Fourth... WoW can suck my balls! before BC, after BC, after WotLK, I dont care WoW always sucked my balls! 

It doesnt matter if WoW die or not... as long as AION is what it is... thats fine...

Originally posted by laokoko

But you won't have the problem on the western server and the japan server.  Since in general very few cheaters play on the western and japan server.

Does Nsoft control the game content and servers in China?

When i was a child i use to say WOW!!! when something was amazing... but today I no longer say WOW to something amazing because it no longer means what it use to mean... now is more like... thats amazing, or, oh snap that is cool...

Now if u get impresed with something and say WOW!!!! the only thing that comes to people mind is warcraft... not even new games used the WOW expresion to avoid confusion with this MMO called WoW.....

Originally posted by Precusor

Does Nsoft control the game content and servers in China?

 

Well Ncsoft control the game content of course, because they make the game.

The marketing and maintain of server is done by other comapny.  But that happens to wow too. 

Originally posted by laokoko

The marketing and maintain of server is done by other comapny.  But that happens to wow too. 

Then Nsoft really isn't to blame for the rampant hacking in Aion china.

Originally posted by Precusor

Originally posted by laokoko

The marketing and maintain of server is done by other comapny.  But that happens to wow too. 

Then Nsoft really isn't to blame for the rampant hacking in Aion china.

 

That's like saying a food company isn't responsible when they made the food poisonous, the store who sold it is. Obvious fanboy is obvious.

Originally posted by Pelu

Third... There isnt a grind like you need 1 billion of xp to level up and mobs only throw to you 100 xp (So far AION have the biggest xp per mob killer I ever seen, higher than galaxies pre CU)

 

What the hell are you even talking about?????????

Lvl 30-31 takes 10 hours of grinding. This game is one huge grind.

Originally posted by Precusor

Originally posted by laokoko

The marketing and maintain of server is done by other comapny.  But that happens to wow too. 

Then Nsoft really isn't to blame for the rampant hacking in Aion china.

 

Techinically they are not.  But the reality is Blizzard coop with other company which will actually hire GM to catch cheaters. 

It doesn't matter which region wow release in.  Let it be China, Korea, Taiwan.  All the company Blizzard coop with manage to have enough GM catching and banning cheater.

On the other hand, cheating for Aion is going rampage in Korea, China, Taiwan.  Now, that's 3 different company all fails to have cheating under control.

It's really the GM's responsiblity to ban botters.  I know I can bot in wow too, but I'll have a higher chance on being banned since there are actually GM banning me.

Originally posted by Axehilt

No, it won't fail.

But I've given up on it for now, due to:

• terrible camera controls. 
• excessive PVE repetition that takes the genre a step backwards.
• poorly-designed PVP (kinda ridiculous to have someone from from 1 foot away to out of spell range, in the 2 sec it took to cast my frostbolt spell.)
• poorly-designed world objectives (Didn't they learn from WAR that 8+ mins of attacking a stationary wall isn't fun?)

I might eventually try it again, but for now I'll revert to my TF2-for-PVP, WOW-for-PVE split of gaming, which has worked out nicely.  And I suppose I've been playing a non-trivial amount of Haven & Hearth for my sandbox fix too.

The camera controls have been brought up and I hope they work on them. The PvE will be added as the game grows and gets past "opening night" (Just like every MMO released since 1998). The problem with outrunning spell casts is fixed in patch 1.6. The final concern will subside as more people learn how to bring down doors effectively.

Just wanted to intervene there for informational purposes.

Now you guys can get back to arguing with the guy that never played past 20th level, or researched the game at all.