Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Riceman 

--

1) However, a great deal of time has passed since that horrible day, and much has changed for the better.

2) Star Wars: Galaxies is likely the single best MMORPG currently in existence for three primary reasons:

1. The Storyteller System
2. The Chronicle System
3. The crafting system

3) Ultimately, Galaxies is the richest and most robust sandbox MMORPG available. Ryzom is the only other MMO to even come close to this.

4) The Storyteller system of Galaxies allows its players to weave intricate and exciting stories for each other. It also allows players to set up some fantastic player events, such as beautiful in-game weddings that don't get ruined by random open PvP.

5) The new Chronicle system lets players create their own quests, complete with experience and unique loot rewards. Granted, other games (notably City of Heroes) have this feature, but their implementations don't mesh nearly as well with the other game systems as the Chronicle system does with Galaxies' Storyteller system.

6) In addition, a great deal has changed about the game since the NGE that has made it, in my opinion, more fun than pre-NGE. As an example of this, update 12 added a huge number of new droids and effectively gave us a droid commander role, in addition to a wealth of cybernetics that made the original measly few look like an afterthought.

7) If you haven't played in a long time, now is a great time to come back.

8) A word of warning, however - a number of servers are going away permanently come October 15th. If you're on one of them, you will need to do a (free) character transfer. The good news, however, is that the population of the remaining servers is visibly at the same levels (or higher) as just prior to the NGE.

--

In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.

 

1) Yes, many things are better than day 1 of NGE, but really, the day before the NGE was still better in many ways. ;) 

2) Chronicles is essentially an expansion of the Storyteller system mate. Having played SWG until just recently, I can tell you...Storyteller may have been fun for some to **edit** around with, but it wasn't a big system at all and VERY VERY few people used it. It was used for outside decorations primarily. Chronicles has potential, but it's again very focused on RP...like "Jedi Trials" or "Guild entry quests"...a lotta potential, but a narrow appeal.

SWG's crafting system isn't what it was - a majority of good/new/desirable loot entering the game is now from the TCG, but the Devs also added better resource spawns to Mustafar. In the "old days", crafters with the best resources spent years and billions of credits collecting them...now, any new crafter can compete with the 6 year vet - It's ruined it for a lot of them.

3) Subjective.....but it's an opinion and I respect yours.

4) Storyteller again? OK...Storyteller doesn't weave intricate stories mate...It allows you to set up WP's, a few NPCs, some cool decorations - It can be fun for a race or something, but you make it sound like MUCH more than it is. For a wedding or event, it's a GREAT system!!! But really, Storyteller is one of those systems that looks good on paper that really just didn't take off in reality.

5) Chronicles was released TODAY! People are furious with the condition it was released in too mate. To claim it as one of the best reasons to play SWG is quite premature. I hate to sound negative, but the bang for their production buck on this one is VERY LOW. This is a new grind and an expansion on Storyteller. Lets see how successful it is in 60 days.

6) Hmmm...they added in a few new droid skins. The only profession that is "kinda like" a Droid Commander is a crafter. Nobody else can use the CL90 capabilities of the new droids - Combat toons are still limited to CL60...just like pre-GU12. GU12 will be a few week boon for DE's business, but once I have my new vanity droid, I wont need another. A few new droids is fine, but they added nothing to bring back players.

The cybernetics...ok?! How many people do you know who quit SWG because they couldn't have a "cool" robotic arm? How many people do you think will come back just to pimp out their toon with a new robot hand? Adding it is fine, but it's far from a "draw" for people. 

7) Sure is! Pony up the cash to make sure that GCW Update happens ;) Buy some TCG cards and boosters too! 

8) Oooooh...."...the population of the remaining servers is visibly at the same levels (or higher) as just prior to the NGE" - I'm sorry, but that is simply not truthful.

Please...feel free to promote the game and rave about this system and that, encourage players to come back and find joy in what you like in-game, dude, tell everyone how much you love SWG...but please PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't lie about it. Lying like that is where I have to draw the line. The current populations are lower than they were 3-weeks ago...and they are a fraction of what they were pre-NGE.

I have NO ISSUE with anyone still enjoying and promoting SWG! I like that some still enjoy it and support it - it's the game I WANTED to play, in the timeline I want to play in...support it long enough and SoE may straighten themselves out and make it the game I want to come back to. But you don't need to lie about populations to draw back players...honesty should always come first.

1) As you said for #3, this is subjective. The only thing I miss about pre-CU SWG is the skill trees.

2) I'm a strongly RP-oriented player, so this may just be my own interests talking. Take what I say, then, with a grain of salt.

3) As #1.

4) Depends on your group. This is in many ways similar to tabletop roleplaying games; a great group can make even a mediocre game fantastic and memorable, and a bad group can turn the best game into something more useful as a paperweight.

5) Alright, I'll concede that this might be premature, but I hold that in 60 days it will be a valuable addition to the game.

6) Cybernetics and droids were just used as an example of things that have been added to the game and were not meant to be an exhaustive list. If you like, I can go line by line through the past 6 years of patch notes and my own gameplay notes to compile a truly comprehensive overview of the evolution of the game (sans personal bias, as much as possible).

7) I'm one of those players that enjoys the TCG and its resultant goodies, especially considering it's essentially a free addition to Galaxies (assuming you don't buy boosters).

8) Perhaps I worded that assertion badly, but I was not lying. Lying is defined as an intentional diversion from the truth. Calling me a liar is not a good way to get me to see your side of the argument. When I said that the population was visibly higher, I meant specifically this - my memory of the crowd at Coronet starport on June 3rd 2003 (Chilastra) matched the crowd at Mos Eisley starport on September 30th 2009 (Starsider).

PSA Time again folks!

I'd strongly encourage anyone who is buying Ricemans line to go and download the FREE trial @ www.tryswg.com before actually putting money down for this pile of garbage.

Try before you buy, that's what the trial is there for. Let the product speak for itself.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

PSA Time again folks!

I'd strongly encourage anyone who is buying Ricemans line to go and download the FREE trial @ www.tryswg.com before actually putting money down for this pile of garbage.

Try before you buy, that's what the trial is there for. Let the product speak for itself.

Shoo! *mod edit*

Originally posted by Riceman

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

PSA Time again folks!

I'd strongly encourage anyone who is buying Ricemans line to go and download the FREE trial @ www.tryswg.com before actually putting money down for this pile of garbage.

Try before you buy, that's what the trial is there for. Let the product speak for itself.

Shoo! *mod edit*

Don't want people to try SWG before they pay for it? How come?

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I think this site needs a forum dedicated to NGE whiners only. Then the people that actually play SWG will have a place to discuss their game without the thread sifting.

*mod edit*

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Riceman

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

PSA Time again folks!

I'd strongly encourage anyone who is buying Ricemans line to go and download the FREE trial @ www.tryswg.com before actually putting money down for this pile of garbage.

Try before you buy, that's what the trial is there for. Let the product speak for itself.

Shoo! *mod edit*

 

Don't want people to try SWG before they pay for it? How come?

Oh, no, I think it's a great idea to try before you buy.

What I object to is the sheer frequency with which you bash the game, and how 90% of the posts I see from you are attacks subtly attached to your "PSAs."

*mod edit*

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Harafnir

No they have not. Stop the lies and manipulaiton and distortion of reality to try and lure in anyone who has not experienced that piece of simplified garbage yet. Please...

Agreed. They started to pull it back after NGE, but at some point they just let it fall right back in and are letting it sink into oblivion.

If you dont have a Full +35 Suit you cant compete.

If you dont have a 5 piece Heroics Jewelery Set you cant compete.

If you dont have a full 7 rows (64) Buffs stacked you cant compete.

Not to mention the F'n stupid Trading Card Game and the completely ghey Non-Starwarsy Holiday Festivals (flying pink Ewoks /facepalm)

Top it off with the fact that there is still no real Galactic Civil War!!!

The OP calls it 'Sandbox"??? The only thing thats still "sandbox" is the Housing/City System.

Sure, Crafting is still pretty good. The Chronicles System is kinda nice. Storyteller isnt bad, but not near as cool as Pex Events

The rest of the game is nothing but a linear themepark treadmill pile'o'crap.

 

i have my 35s suit but i dont have any 5 piece herioc jewelery set and i was still able to pvp just fine.

yes i totally agree its still a great idea to try it before you buy it, its not dead yet but i still think it has potential if the devs stick to their guns and keep bringing in content, but comon zombies? I dont know.
 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be subtle.

/facepalm i thought they were shutting down half their servers and slowing down development.

i am sorry, but you can't be taken seriously.

anyone is entited to their opinion, but you accuse mmofringe of hatred and the only one spreading negativism here is you, towards the fringe and now personally attacking its members; in turn, all that was offered were insightul posts in this ludicrous argument of yours and suggestions to find the proof which counter your claims in the pudding.

You obviously haven't read 100% of my posts if you think 90% of them are subtle attacks on SWG via my 'PSAs'.

If you did read the majority of my posts, you would see that I have come back to SWG on each and every free vet trial HOPING that it was better.

I make no secret of my opinion of the game. But I also know people on this forum can at times sensationalize the 'truth'.

THAT is why I say for people to go play it themselves. I'm completely open to people downloading the trial on reading my PSA and then coming back here and saying 'Bob, you're full of crap, the game is totally what I'm looking for.' That's great, have at 'er. I'm glad you found an MMO you can feel you belong to.

I have to wonder though, if you are so confident that the product is best MMO out there, why you reacted so negatively towards my PSA, regardless of my opinion. If the game is so good, I'm doing YOU (and SOE) a favor. You should be thanking me, not attacking me.

Personally, when you attack somebody who says 'go try it out for yourself free of charge', it shows you're not quite confident in your own professed statements regarding said product.

I'm quite confident SWG sucks, that's why I have no problem telling people to try it out for themselves. Like I said, the product speaks for itself.

Swg conversation have and always will get interesting. HOWEVER, please keep it civil, long standing vet's know our stance here at MMORPG.COM about posting such things here in general discussion.

Thank you,

Guardious

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

YAY internet nerd fight by two people who have never meet but insist they hate each other due to words posted anonymously on a forums!

 

YAY!

 

Yes, I am a nerd. No, I do not HATE Riceman. Never even met the guy, can't even say if I dislike him or not (assuming he's a he... RiceMAN).

Disagree with him, hell yeah.

Originally posted by Harafnir

No they have not. Stop the lies and manipulaiton and distortion of reality to try and lure in anyone who has not experienced that piece of simplified garbage yet. Please...

QFE

This game used to be great, the current game is barely sub-par.

95% or more of the playerbase has quit since the highwater mark, some years ago.

The dev team has been reduced to 10 or less (PR and community managers notwithstanding), and some of those service the "TCG" loot card lottery scam, and not work on the actual game.

12 of 25 servers are about to be closed.

4 or 5 of the remaining servers could use the "Free Transfer Service", because they are all but dead.

The OP might think SWG might be the best game out there, but the 200k or so people that used be customers now are not, would disagree.

Very little of that is opinion, and as such, cannot be rebutted by the boosters of this now dying game, with any credibility whatsoever.

Originally posted by Riceman

 First, let me start by saying that if you're associated with MMOFringe or another internet community characterized by SOE-hate: you will not enjoy this, and it will not be over quickly.

--

Star Wars: Galaxies. Ah, that name conjures up impassioned flame wars throughout the known Internet. Some people have grown to utterly despise any mention of the game, and positive mentions make them absolutely livid.

A rare few others still drink the SOE kool-aid and believe even the NGE launch itself was a good thing.

Make no mistake: while I hated the NGE less than most, I still believe that the NGE was one of the worst things to ever happen to Galaxies. It took a fabulously rich skill system and reduced it to nine cookie cutter classes, none of which had any significant playability.

However, a great deal of time has passed since that horrible day, and much has changed for the better.

Star Wars: Galaxies is likely the single best MMORPG currently in existence for three primary reasons:

1. The Storyteller System
2. The Chronicle System
3. The crafting system

Ultimately, Galaxies is the richest and most robust sandbox MMORPG available. Ryzom is the only other MMO to even come close to this.

The Storyteller system of Galaxies allows its players to weave intricate and exciting stories for each other. It also allows players to set up some fantastic player events, such as beautiful in-game weddings that don't get ruined by random open PvP.

The new Chronicle system lets players create their own quests, complete with experience and unique loot rewards. Granted, other games (notably City of Heroes) have this feature, but their implementations don't mesh nearly as well with the other game systems as the Chronicle system does with Galaxies' Storyteller system.

Lastly, the crafting system is the second most robust one in any game. The only crafting system that tops Galaxies' is Saga of Ryzom's, but Ryzom's system is hampered by a more time-consuming gathering mechanism. Ultimately, the Galaxies system wins out overall.

In addition, a great deal has changed about the game since the NGE that has made it, in my opinion, more fun than pre-NGE. As an example of this, update 12 added a huge number of new droids and effectively gave us a droid commander role, in addition to a wealth of cybernetics that made the original measly few look like an afterthought.

If you haven't played in a long time, now is a great time to come back.

A word of warning, however - a number of servers are going away permanently come October 15th. If you're on one of them, you will need to do a (free) character transfer. The good news, however, is that the population of the remaining servers is visibly at the same levels (or higher) as just prior to the NGE.

--

In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.

You are obviously one of the rare few others who still drink the SOE kool aid.
 

Originally posted by Elwalpo 

yes i totally agree its still a great idea to try it before you buy it, its not dead yet but i still think it has potential if the devs stick to their guns and keep bringing in content, but comon zombies? I dont know.
 

This is the crux of the problem...the game has ALWAYS been on the cusp of greatness. Potential, while always there, is meaningless if it goes undeveloped. 

If the game was the cats meow you would not have to start out your post with a disclaimers and appologies. Nor would you be limited in your comparison of the current game to the worst release of an mmo in the history of the genre (Nov 15th 2005).  Anything compared to how horrible the NGE was at release will look better.  

Without even debating the merits of the crafting, storytelling/chronicles system and just assuming for sake of discussion that you are right, it still leaves vast areas of gameplay untouched that are vital to mmo gameplay.  I doubt I would nominate a game that has gone without expansion for over 4 years as best of anything.  

What does it even matter at this point?

This game will officially get ganked when Star Wars: The Old Republic is out.

No matter how good it may have been when it started, or how much they may have made up for their mistakes there's no point beating a dead horse.

Originally posted by Burntvet

This game used to be great, the current game is barely sub-par.

95% or more of the playerbase has quit since the highwater mark, some years ago.

The dev team has been reduced to 10 or less (PR and community managers notwithstanding), and some of those service the "TCG" loot card lottery scam, and not work on the actual game.

12 of 25 servers are about to be closed.

4 or 5 of the remaining servers could use the "Free Transfer Service", because they are all but dead.

The OP might think SWG might be the best game out there, but the 200k or so people that used be customers now are not, would disagree.

 

Very little of that is opinion, and as such, cannot be rebutted by the boosters of this now dying game, with any credibility whatsoever.

 

 

 

I have to correct you... the watermark for SWG is 500k ... its now around 20k if that... So the more accurate number would 480k or so people would disagree. Man get your facts strieght!

Originally posted by Riceman

 

 

I don't think I can reply to this without seeming bitter, but here goes.

In a nutshell, my entire original post can be rendered down to one sentence:

"I like Galaxies. Try it, you might too."

  Actually, that was two sentences.

"I like Galaxies."
"Try it, you might too."

Guys you know the drill keep it civil, I just edited and deleted a ton out of this thread. Usually when it gets this out of hand we just delete the thread all together. However, I know how passionate both side are on this debate. I would however like to remind everyone there is such a place for disgruntled players and the topic here is crossing that fine line of todays swg and the past swg this is as posted in the sticky not what this part of the forum is for. If you want to discuss the past swg there is a section in the forums just for that. Those that are interested in the current swg look here. I quote..

 ==============================================================

Since there seems to be a great deal of confusion about this forum, I thought I'd clear it up.

This thread was created for members who are interested in this game in its current state. That doesn't mean that you have to like the game, or say only positive things. My intention was to create a place where members could come to discuss the game AS IT IS without being constantly bombarded with posts about the NGE, CU or the other changes that SOE made to this game in the past.

The bottom line is that a number of people are extremely upset about the changes that were made. We wanted to create an area for them as well (hence the other new forum) so that hopefully everyone would have a place to go where their voice could be heard. What we are trying to avoid is having one side point of view drown out all of the others. Regardless of how you or I personally feel about the situation, whichever "side" we are on, it's fair to say that everyone deserves a reasonable voice.

So, the bottom line is: Please, use your common sense, the way that you would in any other forum when deciding where to post your threads. In the same way that you wouldn't post about City of Villains in a WoW forum, this particular forum probably isn't the most appropriate place to post strongly about SOE hate over the NGE, or the latest theories of why it was done, etc. There is now a place for that.

We do not consider one forum to be more important or more "right" than the other. That's why we created two brand new threads rather than only creating one. In an attempt to be un-biased, we want to, like I've said a few times in this post, give everyone a fair voice.

I hope this explains things for you. I've tried to be as clear as possible.

Sincerely,

Jon Wood

=============================================================

Keep it civil keep it to today's swg and on topic.

Thank you,

Guardious

EVE Online has pvp and no jedi.  You should just join us there and be the griefer,  not the griefed, cause apparently ccp staff still play their game.  Oh, and it has over 5000 playable starsystems.  How's that for sandbox?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by UsedManatee

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Riceman 

1. The Storyteller System
2. The Chronicle System
3. The crafting system

 

All three existed before the NGE, in SWG Pre-CU.

 

I'm not sure what your edit did to the content of your original post, but what's left is just crazy talk - if for no other reason than the Chronicle system was just announced.  Yes there was crafting pre-CU.  I certainly don't remember anything called Storyteller up to and including the NGE.

 

 

Every one of those features existed pre-cu. What you are looking at NOW, is a re-branding, and some expanding on those systems.

 

Nothing more. Players could set NPC's including full branching dialog, set items in the world such as downed Tire-fighters, even hide objects. We had the ability to create quests for ever. Like i said, all that was listed above, is just a re-branding and repackaging with a bit of extending some of the original systems.

I would love to point you to the patch notes, or the feature articles on those systems, but of course, they no longer exist on the SWG site.

Care to take a guess as to why?

 

?????????????????????????      you may want to google pre cu and read what it was about ???????????????????