Originally posted by arenasb

So in essence almost every single mmo (other than leveless games such as EVE) are wow clones. Even EVE has quests or missions that you can complete. What other way is there to create a game? A pure grind game where there is nothing to do but killing? A Diablo without levels is what you want? Everyone blames the developers or players or whatever, now explain what solutions could there be. This is a microcism of politics in the world, everyone bitches but provides no solutions.

That's wrong A quest stacker is a game that is designed in a way that the player fills a quest log and with these quests they lead you and level you into harder zones giving you a limited choice in how you progress.

In a game like Eve or other sandbox games quests or missions don't help you level (most of the time) they give you money or items so this makes them optional.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Don't assume I have nothing to play due to my hate of linear, simple games.

I enjoy a challenge. A little depth and complexity go a long way.

How anyone could play a game that is exactly the same over and over and over is beyond me.

All of those games give you the same feeling when you play them.

You start in a starting zone fill your log with quests and say "OH no!!!< Not this again!!"

I'm sorry but I refuse to play the same shit over and over like you guys.

 

Edited for Mod approval sorry :)

What other selection is there really? I love risk, I love pvp. I tried Eve, to much downtime, I have to always be doing something. I tried FE, felt clunky, buggy, felt like a half assed FPS. I would try Darkfall, but I'll never see a trial for that game. MO, hah latest screen shot update is hilarious, I'm sorry. Every game to not follow the "clone" is pretty bad.

I hate to tell you this, but the "clones" are actually able to run smoothly and provide a functional experience. Some people don't mind repeating an experience, or what you call clone, as long as it is fun to them. Might sound crazy, but it's true. Complexity is slowly dying, it's no longer mainstream, it's a shame. Depth how ever seems to be picking up speed. Maybe not in Aion or any new games, but quite a few that are coming out next year or 2011 are looking fantastic.'

My whole point is, who cares if people play the same shit. It shouldn't affect you in anyway. Just wait for developers that are about the game and not the money. It's rare, but eventually you will find one.

 wait wait wait wait. Lets stop at the WoW Clone part in your title. If you ask me most MMOs that have been released are not WoW clones they are only traditional MMO releases with the same basic formula only they are unfinished and monster pieces of DooDoo. It's like movies making money off of a bad ass trailer producing a shitty movie. They are all failing to realize that innovation is not the add on of one new feature but an entire system all together. 

What i blame blizzard for is producing a mass of non gamers that dont know what they are talking about bashing every game that comes out that reminds them of WoW. People constantly freaking out over newly released games that have bugs, glitches, and exploits like people have never experienced this before. When the truth is they never have. It is like we are complaining once again about old shit we should by now expect. It is not my fault that the target demographic for MMO devs are morons.

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Here, you want a Sandbox MMO, a real sandbox, not a WoW or EQ clone?

 

Research what CCP is working on as their pet project...if done right, all dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!

All that is going to do is crush CCP with it's own hand.

Nothing will piss off an MMO gamer faster than some dumb ass FPS player running around with shotguns on a space station affecting their game play.

So if all the FPS players are noobs, then they jack up all the MMO side players of EvE.

If they are all good then the MMO side will have a nice day.

Good FPS players play shit like counterstrike and quake/unreal not CCP's shotgun laser boom boom space station.

Odds are the MMO side is screwed.

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Here, you want a Sandbox MMO, a real sandbox, not a WoW or EQ clone?

 

Research what CCP is working on as their pet project...if done right, all dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!

 

All that is going to do is crush CCP with it's own hand.

 

Nothing will piss off an MMO gamer faster than some dumb ass FPS player running around with shotguns on a space station affecting their game play.

So if all the FPS players are noobs, then they jack up all the MMO side players of EvE.

If they are all good then the MMO side will have a nice day.

Good FPS players play shit like counterstrike and quake/unreal not CCP's shotgun laser boom boom space station.

Odds are the MMO side is screwed.

... you thought I was talking about EVE?...at least it seems that you think I was talking about EVE given all your references to space stations and the like...

You fail at research, please try again...

Here is a hint see press releases and information published on August 12, 2009...then research, then try again.

OH WHO AM I KIDDING...here is the link, I can't stand the suspense.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/World-Of-Darkness-MMO-Confirmed-By-CCP-Games-19219.html

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Here, you want a Sandbox MMO, a real sandbox, not a WoW or EQ clone?

 

Research what CCP is working on as their pet project...if done right, all dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!

 

All that is going to do is crush CCP with it's own hand.

 

Nothing will piss off an MMO gamer faster than some dumb ass FPS player running around with shotguns on a space station affecting their game play.

So if all the FPS players are noobs, then they jack up all the MMO side players of EvE.

If they are all good then the MMO side will have a nice day.

Good FPS players play shit like counterstrike and quake/unreal not CCP's shotgun laser boom boom space station.

Odds are the MMO side is screwed.

 

... you thought I was talking about EVE?...at least it seems that you think I was talking about EVE given all your references to space stations and the like...

You fail at research, please try again...

 

Here is a hint see press releases and information published on August 12, 2009...then research, then try again.

 

OH WHO AM I KIDDING...here is the link, I can't stand the suspense.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/World-Of-Darkness-MMO-Confirmed-By-CCP-Games-19219.html

 

 

Aug 18th 2009 at 10:00AM

CCP Games CEO Hilmar Pétursson delivered a keynote presentation at GDC Europe in Cologne today, and unveiled the project their Shanghai studio has worked on for the last three years: DUST 514, a console MMOFPS set in the EVE Online universe.

Massively speculated in the past that CCP's hiring of console developers was in connection with either the EVE Online FPS or the World of Darkness MMO. The timing of the DUST 514 trademark registration led us to believe this would be the game title announced at this week's GDC event.

So then, what is DUST 514?

According to the game trailer, it's "One universe, one war." While EVE Online lets players struggle against one another for dominance in space, DUST 514 will let console gamers fight for control of planets in EVE's setting of New Eden.

In his talk at GDC Europe today, Hilmar stated that DUST 514 will reach out to two different audiences, fans of first person shooters and MMO players, and their aim is to ultimately meld the communities of EVE Online and DUST 514. He elaborated on this and explained the various ways that the two games will tie in with one another.

DUST 514 will figure prominently into the CCP Games strategy to revamp EVE Online's system of galactic control, called sovereignty. It was originally discussed in the current issue of EON magazine that planetary control would be an aspect of changing how EVE's player alliances gain control of territory. Apparently, what players can do in DUST 514 will also play a major role in EVE moving forward. Hilmar explained more about how the terrestrial gameplay of DUST 514 will be interconnected with the ship-centric gameplay of EVE Online.

Currently, player alliance sovereignty (regional control) is tied to maintaining numerous player-owned structures across different solar systems to establish a territory as belonging to that alliance, and as shown on the game's star map. Since DUST 514 is set in the same galaxy as the core MMO, with the same planets, EVE players will have the option of contracting DUST (player) mercenaries to gain control of planets.

Hilmar said, "DUST battlefields will dictate who control specific planets inside the EVE MMO. If a player contracts a DUST mercenary team to go and conquer this district of a planet. Then ultimately he will be able to control the planet, and therefore the solar system, and therefore the constellation, and the region."

He explained more about the interplay between EVE Online and DUST 514. Hilmar said, "You will increasingly have to fight with your fleet [in EVE Online] but you will also have to contract people who play DUST, the console MMO, which then feeds into the sovereignty control system of EVE. Then EVE feeds back into that again by funding the mercenaries, giving them goals." In a nod to Starship Troopers, he said, "The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

When you bring these two communities together, that "one universe, one war" means that the EVE PC MMO and DUST 514 console MMOFPS gamers will form interconnected social structures and meld over time.

This is CCP's hope, anyway. Hilmar says he'd like to see specific DUST corporations and alliances that bridge the gap to the EVE MMO, as the ground game adds new dimensions to the space-based gameplay of EVE Online as we know it today.

BUT

if you were talking about this....

World of Darkness MMO

Just more garbage....

Just so you know, I do follow games, ALL games, do not tell me to research when it would appear I know more about CCP than you do.

A game based off, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Mage: The Ascension....

Just read a Vampire Chronicles Noval and Watch Twilight 2000 times if you can stomach it. Will give you the same effect.

PS. No way in hell, in a MILLION years, World of Darkness even comes close to toppling wow. To make that statement is mighty bold. Mighty bold indeed. It's like saying Hello Kitty Online will topple it. It isn't even going to be a blip on the radar screen for most.

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Here, you want a Sandbox MMO, a real sandbox, not a WoW or EQ clone?

 

Research what CCP is working on as their pet project...if done right, all dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!

 

All that is going to do is crush CCP with it's own hand.

 

Nothing will piss off an MMO gamer faster than some dumb ass FPS player running around with shotguns on a space station affecting their game play.

So if all the FPS players are noobs, then they jack up all the MMO side players of EvE.

If they are all good then the MMO side will have a nice day.

Good FPS players play shit like counterstrike and quake/unreal not CCP's shotgun laser boom boom space station.

Odds are the MMO side is screwed.

 

... you thought I was talking about EVE?...at least it seems that you think I was talking about EVE given all your references to space stations and the like...

You fail at research, please try again...

 

Here is a hint see press releases and information published on August 12, 2009...then research, then try again.

 

OH WHO AM I KIDDING...here is the link, I can't stand the suspense.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/World-Of-Darkness-MMO-Confirmed-By-CCP-Games-19219.html

 

 

 

Aug 18th 2009 at 10:00AM

CCP Games CEO Hilmar Pétursson delivered a keynote presentation at GDC Europe in Cologne today, and unveiled the project their Shanghai studio has worked on for the last three years: DUST 514, a console MMOFPS set in the EVE Online universe.

Massively speculated in the past that CCP's hiring of console developers was in connection with either the EVE Online FPS or the World of Darkness MMO. The timing of the DUST 514 trademark registration led us to believe this would be the game title announced at this week's GDC event.

So then, what is DUST 514?

According to the game trailer, it's "One universe, one war." While EVE Online lets players struggle against one another for dominance in space, DUST 514 will let console gamers fight for control of planets in EVE's setting of New Eden.

In his talk at GDC Europe today, Hilmar stated that DUST 514 will reach out to two different audiences, fans of first person shooters and MMO players, and their aim is to ultimately meld the communities of EVE Online and DUST 514. He elaborated on this and explained the various ways that the two games will tie in with one another.

DUST 514 will figure prominently into the CCP Games strategy to revamp EVE Online's system of galactic control, called sovereignty. It was originally discussed in the current issue of EON magazine that planetary control would be an aspect of changing how EVE's player alliances gain control of territory. Apparently, what players can do in DUST 514 will also play a major role in EVE moving forward. Hilmar explained more about how the terrestrial gameplay of DUST 514 will be interconnected with the ship-centric gameplay of EVE Online.

Currently, player alliance sovereignty (regional control) is tied to maintaining numerous player-owned structures across different solar systems to establish a territory as belonging to that alliance, and as shown on the game's star map. Since DUST 514 is set in the same galaxy as the core MMO, with the same planets, EVE players will have the option of contracting DUST (player) mercenaries to gain control of planets.

Hilmar said, "DUST battlefields will dictate who control specific planets inside the EVE MMO. If a player contracts a DUST mercenary team to go and conquer this district of a planet. Then ultimately he will be able to control the planet, and therefore the solar system, and therefore the constellation, and the region."

He explained more about the interplay between EVE Online and DUST 514. Hilmar said, "You will increasingly have to fight with your fleet [in EVE Online] but you will also have to contract people who play DUST, the console MMO, which then feeds into the sovereignty control system of EVE. Then EVE feeds back into that again by funding the mercenaries, giving them goals." In a nod to Starship Troopers, he said, "The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

When you bring these two communities together, that "one universe, one war" means that the EVE PC MMO and DUST 514 console MMOFPS gamers will form interconnected social structures and meld over time.

This is CCP's hope, anyway. Hilmar says he'd like to see specific DUST corporations and alliances that bridge the gap to the EVE MMO, as the ground game adds new dimensions to the space-based gameplay of EVE Online as we know it today.

BUT

if you were talking about this....

World of Darkness MMO

Just more garbage....

Just so you know, I do follow games, ALL games, do not tell me to research when it would appear I know more about CCP than you do.

 

copying an article means you know more than I do about MMO's?

CCP's FLAGSHIP is Eve, I didn't say their FLAGSHIP, I said their PET PROJECT...evidenced by the fact that THEY BOUGHT OUT WHITE WOLF, and at full price, mind you.  If they acquired it at a discount due to falling revenues, or the like, then AND ONLY THEN, might your bastard of a post have any credence.

You may know CCP, and you may know EVE, but just by what you said I can tell for a fact that you know exactly JACK and SHIT about MMO's, specifically the design mechanics of a sandbox MMO, and less than JACK AND SHIT about the potential WOD brings to developments in sandbox designs.  The storyline by itself lends to a sandbox design with none of the standard "fix the storyline to work with the design model" changes...see DDO for questions about this.  Don't quote a press release to me and talk out of the side of your neck at the same time, especially about presumptions you make as to my credentials regarding game design.

You Sir, Fail.

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Here, you want a Sandbox MMO, a real sandbox, not a WoW or EQ clone?

 

Research what CCP is working on as their pet project...if done right, all dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!

 

All that is going to do is crush CCP with it's own hand.

 

Nothing will piss off an MMO gamer faster than some dumb ass FPS player running around with shotguns on a space station affecting their game play.

So if all the FPS players are noobs, then they jack up all the MMO side players of EvE.

If they are all good then the MMO side will have a nice day.

Good FPS players play shit like counterstrike and quake/unreal not CCP's shotgun laser boom boom space station.

Odds are the MMO side is screwed.

 

... you thought I was talking about EVE?...at least it seems that you think I was talking about EVE given all your references to space stations and the like...

You fail at research, please try again...

 

Here is a hint see press releases and information published on August 12, 2009...then research, then try again.

 

OH WHO AM I KIDDING...here is the link, I can't stand the suspense.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/World-Of-Darkness-MMO-Confirmed-By-CCP-Games-19219.html

 

 

 

Aug 18th 2009 at 10:00AM

CCP Games CEO Hilmar Pétursson delivered a keynote presentation at GDC Europe in Cologne today, and unveiled the project their Shanghai studio has worked on for the last three years: DUST 514, a console MMOFPS set in the EVE Online universe.

Massively speculated in the past that CCP's hiring of console developers was in connection with either the EVE Online FPS or the World of Darkness MMO. The timing of the DUST 514 trademark registration led us to believe this would be the game title announced at this week's GDC event.

So then, what is DUST 514?

According to the game trailer, it's "One universe, one war." While EVE Online lets players struggle against one another for dominance in space, DUST 514 will let console gamers fight for control of planets in EVE's setting of New Eden.

In his talk at GDC Europe today, Hilmar stated that DUST 514 will reach out to two different audiences, fans of first person shooters and MMO players, and their aim is to ultimately meld the communities of EVE Online and DUST 514. He elaborated on this and explained the various ways that the two games will tie in with one another.

DUST 514 will figure prominently into the CCP Games strategy to revamp EVE Online's system of galactic control, called sovereignty. It was originally discussed in the current issue of EON magazine that planetary control would be an aspect of changing how EVE's player alliances gain control of territory. Apparently, what players can do in DUST 514 will also play a major role in EVE moving forward. Hilmar explained more about how the terrestrial gameplay of DUST 514 will be interconnected with the ship-centric gameplay of EVE Online.

Currently, player alliance sovereignty (regional control) is tied to maintaining numerous player-owned structures across different solar systems to establish a territory as belonging to that alliance, and as shown on the game's star map. Since DUST 514 is set in the same galaxy as the core MMO, with the same planets, EVE players will have the option of contracting DUST (player) mercenaries to gain control of planets.

Hilmar said, "DUST battlefields will dictate who control specific planets inside the EVE MMO. If a player contracts a DUST mercenary team to go and conquer this district of a planet. Then ultimately he will be able to control the planet, and therefore the solar system, and therefore the constellation, and the region."

He explained more about the interplay between EVE Online and DUST 514. Hilmar said, "You will increasingly have to fight with your fleet [in EVE Online] but you will also have to contract people who play DUST, the console MMO, which then feeds into the sovereignty control system of EVE. Then EVE feeds back into that again by funding the mercenaries, giving them goals." In a nod to Starship Troopers, he said, "The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

When you bring these two communities together, that "one universe, one war" means that the EVE PC MMO and DUST 514 console MMOFPS gamers will form interconnected social structures and meld over time.

This is CCP's hope, anyway. Hilmar says he'd like to see specific DUST corporations and alliances that bridge the gap to the EVE MMO, as the ground game adds new dimensions to the space-based gameplay of EVE Online as we know it today.

BUT

if you were talking about this....

World of Darkness MMO

Just more garbage....

Just so you know, I do follow games, ALL games, do not tell me to research when it would appear I know more about CCP than you do.

 

 

copying an article means you know more than I do about MMO's?

CCP's FLAGSHIP is Eve, I didn't say their FLAGSHIP, I said their PET PROJECT...evidenced by the fact that THEY BOUGHT OUT WHITE WOLF, and at full price, mind you.  If they acquired it at a discount due to falling revenues, or the like, then AND ONLY THEN, might your bastard of a post have any credence.

You may know CCP, and you may know EVE, but just by what you said I can tell for a fact that you know exactly JACK and SHIT about MMO's, specifically the design mechanics of a sandbox MMO, and less than JACK AND SHIT about the potential WOD brings to developments in sandbox designs.  The storyline by itself lends to a sandbox design with none of the standard "fix the storyline to work with the design model" changes...see DDO for questions about this.  Don't quote a press release to me and talk out of the side of your neck at the same time, especially about presumptions you make as to my credentials regarding game design.

You Sir, Fail.

Dude you are retarded, I have played every sandbox ever made, I played DDO, I have played EvE, I have played Ryzom, SWG back when it was a sandbox.

And WoD is nothing but a lame ass attempt to cash in on some vamp/were fame since twilight released.

Keep it, I hope you choke on  the fangs.

I read all those press releases back in August same time as you, didn't even think twice about the lame ass game. For you to even claim "dopplegangers will fall...WoW included!" is absurd. just like your comeback to me.

Save it.

If CCP has anything to look foward to it's that Dust side project to EvE that if done right will boost CCP, if done wrong will crush it.

BTW you do not know jack about MMO's.

Click Profile -> Look the the right hand side of the page and find -> X click here to delete your account -> then click it noob.

Originally posted by skydragonren

A game based off, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Mage: The Ascension....

Just read a Vampire Chronicles Noval and Watch Twilight 2000 times if you can stomach it. Will give you the same effect.

 

PS. No way in hell, in a MILLION years, World of Darkness even comes close to toppling wow. To make that statement is mighty bold. Mighty bold indeed. It's like saying Hello Kitty Online will topple it. It isn't even going to be a blip on the radar screen for most.

You are confusing watered down and PC versions of a gothic/horror theme into an environment suitable for tween viewers.  The stories you read and movies you see that are mainstream are not even close to the real WOD.  You want to talk about dark and disturbing?  The real WOD makes Twilight...scratch that...even mentioning the two in the same sentence is an insult to 18 years of storyline development by minds approaching the dark creativity of Clive Barker.

 Wow is a clone.

And I play EVE. Never wow. Wow is not that wow, really.

It isn't about wow.  The player base for sandbox is just smaller.

While there is a market for sandbox game, it's just smaller.  At least untill they start making sandbox game aiming for the mainstream.

For example, almost all sandbox game have full loot.  And alot of gamer do like it.  But I'm sure the majority of gamer are carebare and dont' want full loot.

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

A game based off, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Mage: The Ascension....

Just read a Vampire Chronicles Noval and Watch Twilight 2000 times if you can stomach it. Will give you the same effect.

 

PS. No way in hell, in a MILLION years, World of Darkness even comes close to toppling wow. To make that statement is mighty bold. Mighty bold indeed. It's like saying Hello Kitty Online will topple it. It isn't even going to be a blip on the radar screen for most.

 

You are confusing watered down and PC versions of a gothic/horror theme into an environment suitable for tween viewers.  The stories you read and movies you see that are mainstream are not even close to the real WOD.  You want to talk about dark and disturbing?  The real WOD makes Twilight...scratch that...even mentioning the two in the same sentence is an insult to 18 years of storyline development by minds approaching the dark creativity of Clive Barker.

You just proved my point in ref to this Original post.

It will never be what you think it is going to be. You can't market a Clive Barker dark themed MMO to the world. You can only offer it to 18+ niche market, making it very small in population, making it even smaller in revenue, making it nowhere even close to toppling wow.

If they do make it like it should be, which I HIGHLY doubt <- can't stress  that enough, it will never see mainstream success.

Not to mention the dark, bloodsucker, werecow, heart eating gore crowd are all in the EMO clubs, not hanging out in MMO's

Like I said you know jack shit about MMO, Gaming, Money or Business.

Just stop typing.

EDIT - On a side note did you ever play Clive Barker's "Jericho"? Enough said.

I will elaborate further. Clive barker's Jericho, though well written and good narrative and theme, had to be watered down. Even carrying the ESRB 18+ this game was booed by critics saying that the game didn't have the scare or fear factor to push it where it needed to be.

WHY?

Clive Barker couldn't DO what he wanted to do because you can't sell that shit to a mass market. If you want to make money, you have to play it down and market it  to a broader audience. So they water it down to child's play as usual.

Same as WoD will be.

So for some reason you think that because you play a game that you actually understand the design of a game?

Here is a lesson for the uneducated, please pay close attention, as this applies directly to you.  Fact Check Incoming...

Playing a game does not mean you know how to design one.  People like you who get into game design are the reason for all of the epic fail in the industry today.  People like you should stick to playing games that people like me design.  People like me get PAID to design.  People like you pay me to design games by buying them.  People like you like to complain because you think people like me care about your $15 a month.  We do not care about your $15 a month, because if you stop playing and cancel your account, in the time it takes you to do so, 10 others have already started new accounts.

Those are the facts, now on to my personal response.

The fact that you used the term "retarded" simply implies that you are in fact the one that has some mental issues, and thus experiences discomfort when attempting to wrap your brain around what I am talking about.  The comeback, you reference, and the inherent implication that I care to win out in the exchange is misplaced.  I know the facts, I know design, and I also know WHY CCP purchased White Wolf a full two years before Twilight even started production, circa 2006.  Tween movies have nothing to do with WOD, and even thinking so tells me that you really don't know CCP as well as you think you do. 

And really...fangs, as if I were even remotely a LARPER...no chance there, pal...sorry.  Try to exert your forum trolling influence upon someone that cares whether you live or die, it might work better.  Oh Noes, you don't agree with me!  Oh Noes, I must be retarded because you called me that because you can't think of anything more intelligent to say.  Sorry, but you fail again.  Does failure run in your family?  It must, considering that I am sure your parents were hoping for an intelligent child.

Originally posted by mjelz1973

So for some reason you think that because you play a game that you actually understand the design of a game?

Here is a lesson for the uneducated, please pay close attention, as this applies directly to you.  Fact Check Incoming...

Playing a game does not mean you know how to design one.  People like you who get into game design are the reason for all of the epic fail in the industry today.  People like you should stick to playing games that people like me design.  People like me get PAID to design.  People like you pay me to design games by buying them.  People like you like to complain because you think people like me care about your $15 a month.  We do not care about your $15 a month, because if you stop playing and cancel your account, in the time it takes yo.................

www.youtube.com/watch

2/10

Originally posted by skydragonren

Originally posted by mjelz1973

Originally posted by skydragonren

A game based off, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Mage: The Ascension....

Just read a Vampire Chronicles Noval and Watch Twilight 2000 times if you can stomach it. Will give you the same effect.

 

PS. No way in hell, in a MILLION years, World of Darkness even comes close to toppling wow. To make that statement is mighty bold. Mighty bold indeed. It's like saying Hello Kitty Online will topple it. It isn't even going to be a blip on the radar screen for most.

 

You are confusing watered down and PC versions of a gothic/horror theme into an environment suitable for tween viewers.  The stories you read and movies you see that are mainstream are not even close to the real WOD.  You want to talk about dark and disturbing?  The real WOD makes Twilight...scratch that...even mentioning the two in the same sentence is an insult to 18 years of storyline development by minds approaching the dark creativity of Clive Barker.

 

You just proved my point in ref to this Original post.

It will never be what you think it is going to be. You can't market a Clive Barker dark themed MMO to the world. You can only offer it to 18+ niche market, making it very small in population, making it even smaller in revenue, making it nowhere even close to toppling wow.

If they do make it like it should be, which I HIGHLY doubt <- can't stress  that enough, it will never see mainstream success.

Not to mention the dark, bloodsucker, werecow, heart eating gore crowd are all in the EMO clubs, not hanging out in MMO's

Like I said you know jack shit about MMO, Gaming, Money or Business.

Just stop typing.

 

EDIT - On a side note did you ever play Clive Barker's "Jericho"? Enough said.

I will elaborate further. Clive barker's Jericho, though well written and good narrative and theme, had to be watered down. Even carrying the ESRB 18+ this game was booed by critics saying that the game didn't have the scare or fear factor to push it where it needed to be.

WHY?

Clive Barker couldn't DO what he wanted to do because you can't sell that shit to a mass market. If you want to make money, you have to play it down and market it  to a broader audience. So they water it down to child's play as usual.

Same as WoD will be.

Quoting you, but at the same time adding a quote of my own from an earlier post...

The day that a developer loses the fear of not having the mass market buy their game is the day that a great game will be born.

I didn't say anything about mass marketing, I am talking about a great game, not the game that makes the most money.

The reference to money on your part only further solidifies the point I am making.  Mainstream is money, I am talking about neither.  EVE is not technically mainstream, but is popular and the company is successful in their own right.  Again, I am talking about making the best game possible, not making the most money, big difference.  Huge difference.

Originally posted by mjelz1973

So for some reason you think that because you play a game that you actually understand the design of a game?

Here is a lesson for the uneducated, please pay close attention, as this applies directly to you.  Fact Check Incoming...

Playing a game does not mean you know how to design one.  People like you who get into game design are the reason for all of the epic fail in the industry today.  People like you should stick to playing games that people like me design.  People like me get PAID to design.  People like you pay me to design games by buying them.  People like you like to complain because you think people like me care about your $15 a month.  We do not care about your $15 a month, because if you stop playing and cancel your account, in the time it takes you to do so, 10 others have already started new accounts.

Those are the facts, now on to my personal response.

The fact that you used the term "retarded" simply implies that you are in fact the one that has some mental issues, and thus experiences discomfort when attempting to wrap your brain around what I am talking about.  The comeback, you reference, and the inherent implication that I care to win out in the exchange is misplaced.  I know the facts, I know design, and I also know WHY CCP purchased White Wolf a full two years before Twilight even started production, circa 2006.  Tween movies have nothing to do with WOD, and even thinking so tells me that you really don't know CCP as well as you think you do. 

And really...fangs, as if I were even remotely a LARPER...no chance there, pal...sorry.  Try to exert your forum trolling influence upon someone that cares whether you live or die, it might work better.  Oh Noes, you don't agree with me!  Oh Noes, I must be retarded because you called me that because you can't think of anything more intelligent to say.  Sorry, but you fail again.  Does failure run in your family?  It must, considering that I am sure your parents were hoping for an intelligent child.

That was an extremely pompous/lengthy way to wave ones epeen and tell someone they suck.

But I must confess, the highlights piqued my curiosity and I'm interested in whether or not the arrogance displayed in your post has a solid foundation, so I have a question.

Which MMO did you design?

The sandbox argument is WRONG. We should not play a crappy sandbox game just to get away from the WoW clones. If a company was serious they could make a successful sandbox game. The fact is subpar "wow clones" work. subpar "non wow clones" dont. I great sanbox game would do really well imo.. but one has yet to be created as far as i'm concerned. Especially not the type that the majority of us would like. 

Companies are to blame. It's not us, it's the companies that are not creating a quality game to take players away from WoW. If companies choose to make a "wow clone" well by now they should no that no clone has surpassed wow and shouldn't even bother. If they're stupid enough to do so, then that's their problem.

That said, there are a lot of MMOs in the work that are really doing things differently as far as far gameplay. TOR, GW2, and FFXIV to name a few... so I think next year we really start to see a shake up in the MMO world.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

 everything made after everquest 1 is a wow clone

People will always make references to what's most popular not what came first....always.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by mjelz1973

So for some reason you think that because you play a game that you actually understand the design of a game?

Here is a lesson for the uneducated, please pay close attention, as this applies directly to you.  Fact Check Incoming...

Playing a game does not mean you know how to design one.  People like you who get into game design are the reason for all of the epic fail in the industry today.  People like you should stick to playing games that people like me design.  People like me get PAID to design.  People like you pay me to design games by buying them.  People like you like to complain because you think people like me care about your $15 a month.  We do not care about your $15 a month, because if you stop playing and cancel your account, in the time it takes you to do so, 10 others have already started new accounts.

Those are the facts, now on to my personal response.

The fact that you used the term "retarded" simply implies that you are in fact the one that has some mental issues, and thus experiences discomfort when attempting to wrap your brain around what I am talking about.  The comeback, you reference, and the inherent implication that I care to win out in the exchange is misplaced.  I know the facts, I know design, and I also know WHY CCP purchased White Wolf a full two years before Twilight even started production, circa 2006.  Tween movies have nothing to do with WOD, and even thinking so tells me that you really don't know CCP as well as you think you do. 

And really...fangs, as if I were even remotely a LARPER...no chance there, pal...sorry.  Try to exert your forum trolling influence upon someone that cares whether you live or die, it might work better.  Oh Noes, you don't agree with me!  Oh Noes, I must be retarded because you called me that because you can't think of anything more intelligent to say.  Sorry, but you fail again.  Does failure run in your family?  It must, considering that I am sure your parents were hoping for an intelligent child.

That was an extremely pompous/lengthy way to wave ones epeen and tell someone they suck.

But I must confess, the highlights piqued my curiosity and I'm interested in whether or not the arrogance displayed in your post has a solid foundation, so I have a question.

Which MMO did you design?

Did I claim in any post to have designed an MMO?  No, I did not post that because I have not been published on an MMO title, but I have had game software published.  In addition to my degree, I have logged over 2000 hours of subject matter related continuing education, been in every significant MMO related presentation at each AGC since 2005, and have personally met and discussed game design concepts and methods with more than a few influential people in the industry.  I don't claim to be on the design team of a major MMO, but I do know the industry and the methods and concepts behind the current design paradigm.  I also know the difference between a good game and a game that will make the most money, the former is of interest to me moreso than the later.
 

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Originally posted by mjelz1973

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Originally posted by Ravanos

if you enjoy WoW then this post isn't for against, its these other game jumpers who say "omg WoW sucks .....", yet bitch when a new game doesn't have "X Y or Z like WoW'.
this post is for those with WOW accounts yet come to this forum and bitch because theres nothing different on the market.
people that say blame the game developers are idiots. Most game developers are just in it for the money (duh) and investors are definately in it for the money. so if you were going to put millions into a new project and your choices were ...
a Game with WoW like qualitys (linear, theme park) or an open world like Ryzom, which would you throw your millions at?
and if you say the game like Ryzom ... you're lying.

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I stand corrected...NOW everyone reading this thread is dumber for having read it.
Investors give money to proven design models, yes.  The blame is on developers because they only develop for money...because they only develop with mass market in mind.  The same mass market that will pay $50 for the game and $15 for the first month and then cancel the account because "it takes too much time to level" and "I have a life"...its the posers who buy our games that are the direct cause for all the shitty games out on the market and for crappy developers who are content with putting out shit that fits the general mold of designs today just to make a buck.
The day that a developer loses the fear of not having the mass market buy their game is the day that a great game will be born.
Forgot to add this to my original post, but for references to what I mean, please see DOOM, GTA, and any other game that got bad press in the beginning for taking it to the extreme.  AD&D got bad press in the beginning, and even still today, because it was outside the box...funny thing is that it paved the way for every MMO out today...not too bad for devil worshipping eh?
Those are all the best games, period.
THAT IS ALL.

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Very few developers will ever make anything that is not for the mass market. Doom and GTA both appealed to a large market, but were bashed in the media for being too much. The devs knew who would like it. D&D is a special thing that started in a strange way and even then did not have development costs that a video game does.

Do you really think the money is going to change?! The only people making games like this are the indie devs, as this article says. And they are doing it out of love for gaming. They will probably always be the ones with the best ideas, but they simply do not have enough money to polish it the way the mass market wants. And the mass market will not try a new style of game because it is too hard. Look at Fallen Earth, already people are complaining because they cannot figure out the opening sequence. Part of me says "good riddance to the idiots," but part of me knows that those are the unwashed masses that fund games. And that is why WoW is so popular. People are not clever on the whole, and they love simple, bright things that make them feel successful, and the constant loot changes do that for someone that does not really understand games. The people on this site are the exception and not the rule.

Indie developers really are developers that care enough to make a game they love. Most game companies are developers employed by the people with money that neither understand nor care at all about games, and instead care about money. They demand game models that are proven to make large sums of money. This is why the moneyed games almost always come out the same. Therefore it is the fault of the players that buy games they know are no good, and the people that are too stupid to know better, but we have little chance of changing them, right?

The money will never change. They just want MORE MONEY? Get it? So they do what has been proven to make the most money. I am not totally sure what your point was, because it sounds in some places like you agree that it is the fault of players, but you seemed to have indicated that Ravanos is incorrect, which obviously he/she is. Yes, this thread has been done to death, but that does not mean we should not continue to try and raise awareness of the face that buying shit games will only serve to provide you with more shit games.

lol ppl continue to say WoW is a clone but the fact is WoW killed Everquest... more people play WoW... Dont like WoW thats fine but its a damn good game and people like you are the reason that there are sooo many clones you act like WoW just ripped everything no WoW has its own lore its own graphics its own fun soo please stop being a little.... and get over it... WoW is a good game... and please WHAT IS THIS REVOLUATION IN MMO's EXPLAIN? WHAT IS IT? DO YOU KNOW? so why are you demanding this game that you dont know what it is? realy... WoW is a good game ppl clone it because it works... it has more subs then any game in the world... get over it already just because YOU dont like it doesent mean the world hates it...

I fined it hard to blame the grass for the cow @#$%%ing ( for leaving droppings).

 I've tried EVE.  It sucked.  It was like a text based MUD other then watching your stupid ship flying around in space and mining asteroids it was absolutely boring.  My first quest required me to do some Fed Ex quest where I plotted the course and flew there to some station then back.  So I do that, and ok I'm watching my ship fly... hmmm dmmm waste some time, watch space go by... wait som more.    Ok 45 minutes later I'm back where I started.  My other option fly out to some asteroids and mine them and try to fight some pirates.  Decided to try exploring, went out of the safe zone and upon zoning got killed/podded.  I didn't really care having a starter ship and flew around in my pod til I got bored.  

All told probably paid maybe an hour before uninstalling the game lolz.

The reason people play WOW is that most other MMO's that come out are garbage.  They're released well before they should be.  Untested, buggy, farcical with crappy animations (LOTRO)  with some aspects of the game added as an afterthought (again LOTRO pvp/mvp).

When a game comes out that is well thought, tested, and interesting or Blizzard pisses everyone off WOW will continue to reign supreme.

Originally posted by skarwolf

 I've tried EVE.  It sucked.  It was like a text based MUD other then watching your stupid ship flying around in space and mining asteroids it was absolutely boring.  My first quest required me to do some Fed Ex quest where I plotted the course and flew there to some station then back.  So I do that, and ok I'm watching my ship fly... hmmm dmmm waste some time, watch space go by... wait som more.    Ok 45 minutes later I'm back where I started.  My other option fly out to some asteroids and mine them and try to fight some pirates.  Decided to try exploring, went out of the safe zone and upon zoning got killed/podded.  I didn't really care having a starter ship and flew around in my pod til I got bored.  

All told probably paid maybe an hour before uninstalling the game lolz.

 

Hey don't make fun of Eve or the elite will come and call you a newb=)  Didn't you know that flying around for 45 minutes is called depth and thought provoking gameplay in Eve land?  hehe.   I wish I was joking;)