Never have and never will.

People who do should be shot for supporting the idiots who have the nerve to spam me in-game.

Originally posted by spinach8puff

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Funny, the one's ruining the MMO's telling us to leave them.

 

Way to point fingers and avoid the truth about reality. Instead of doing something productive like forming a guild/group of like minded individuals and black listing the cheaters you rather sit on forums and complain. Kicking and screaming is what little kids do to get what they want. Take control of what you can, like the adult you are, and you will be much happier.

Don't go telling anyone what to do ingame just cuz an argument isnt going your way. Why dont you go into your MMO and proudly anounce to the comunity at large that you buy gold. Why? Dont want to get into anyones KoS list? Know youll very likely be ridiculed even in carebear games/servers? Really, you know chances are you wont be banned...

Originally posted by skarwolf

 The first time I encountered this was back in Everquest.  My friend played a bard and we had banded and brass armor and some crappy weapons.  One day he shows up totally decked out in awesome gear.  I asked how he got all that stuff and he told me he bought gold online and not to say anything because you could get banned.  He gave me 500 plat which was a huge amount for me at the time.

I bought gold in EQ2 & WOW.  I'd create a character who got the gold then transfer it in parts to other other characters.  I tried two different companies.  One sent me the gold directly in bulk to whatever character I specified.  Another had some ridiculous method where I had to contact them on the phone and speak to them directly telling them who I was and what character it was.

Heres a way to find out at least in WOW.  They had me place 1 single bandage on the auction set at 200 gold, since I was getting 1000 gold they had me put up 5 bandages.  The person then bought the bandages and I got my money and it appeared legit.  I was never suspended or banned and I bought gold about 3-4 times in WOW.

I view buying game currency as a service. Would you rather dry clean your own clothes or pay someone else to do it while you do other things? its pretty much the same thing with rmting Also before you blame rmt on the ingame item prices, remember that its the players that set the price, and us humans are naturally greedy.

Originally posted by Scyris

Originally posted by skarwolf

 The first time I encountered this was back in Everquest.  My friend played a bard and we had banded and brass armor and some crappy weapons.  One day he shows up totally decked out in awesome gear.  I asked how he got all that stuff and he told me he bought gold online and not to say anything because you could get banned.  He gave me 500 plat which was a huge amount for me at the time.

I bought gold in EQ2 & WOW.  I'd create a character who got the gold then transfer it in parts to other other characters.  I tried two different companies.  One sent me the gold directly in bulk to whatever character I specified.  Another had some ridiculous method where I had to contact them on the phone and speak to them directly telling them who I was and what character it was.

Heres a way to find out at least in WOW.  They had me place 1 single bandage on the auction set at 200 gold, since I was getting 1000 gold they had me put up 5 bandages.  The person then bought the bandages and I got my money and it appeared legit.  I was never suspended or banned and I bought gold about 3-4 times in WOW.

I view buying game currency as a service. Would you rather dry clean your own clothes or pay someone else to do it while you do other things? its pretty much the same thing with rmting Also before you blame rmt on the ingame item prices, remember that its the players that set the price, and us humans are naturally greedy...AND STUPID!!!

The question is are you greedy enough to ruin the game for everyone?  Buying gold ruins the game for everyone.  There's no disputing it.

Ive sold gold before to one of these places that buys it to sell on :) seemed fine to me wasnt playing the game anymore got me 25 pounds if i rember right

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

You obviously buy gold and are taking offense. I wouldn't have enough room to blacklist all cheaters, sadly, the majority of new age players buy gold, hack, glitch, etc. As above posters said, none of them care either, because they are getting what they want now now now and try justifying it in any lame way they can.

I'm actually in school for my BA in Game Art & Design...and believe me when I say I WILL do all I can to bring challenge and the passion of creating quality MMO's back to the drawing board to keep players like you at bay. Meaning deep story lines, chain quests with depth, longer leveling, etc.

 

Fast game play is for console games, NOT MMO's.

I'm actually one of those no lifers that can play a game for eight hours a day so I have no need to buy gold actually. If anything I would be one of the ones selling it if my husband didn't play with me most of the time also. lol. I'm actually just posting in the possibility that someone who is strongly against or for one side would open their mind to the possibilities of the other side.

I'm glad you're in school for Game Art & Design and I hope you do bring a game like that back to life for the people who would like it, but I don't see it happening. It's possible, but not very likely in my mind. WoW really did change the MMO genre and I don't see it reverting. If fast game play wasn't meant to be in the MMO genre then WoW wouldn't be such a huge success and other developers wouldn't be trying to do the casual game play as well. Also I didn't mean actually putting cheaters on your in game ignore list. You could always get a notepad and write down all of those people when and if your list fills up

Why are you even on MMORPG forums since cheating is basically a part of every MMO and playing one would mean you are acknowledging and accepting the ugly truth. Wouldn't there be a greater affect in MMOs if everyone who hated cheating just didn't play any MMO instead of complaining while playing one? Maybe the ugly truth is that there are more people than you think that could actually care less about cheating.

Caleveira, I actually play Wizard 101. In game money can't even be traded from person to person as far as I know. It has its own item shop and there isn't even a market for selling in game items or accounts from a place like Playerauctions. The game is definitely popular so maybe they actually found a few ways around the cheating problem.

Originally posted by Anubisan

The problem with your argument GoatGod76 is that I absolutely love MMORPGs. They are my favorite type of game by far and are how I spend most of my gaming time.

When I was younger and could afford to spend ridiculous amounts of time playing MMOs, I did. But that eventually became impossible to maintain due to real world obligations. Still, I want to have fun and be competitive when I do have time to play. I don't think it is fair that someone who gets to sit at home all day and do nothing but play games should always have a major advantage over those of us who work a lot. Buying gold occasionally allows me to better enjoy the games I play, while also not neglecting my real life responsibilities. I really don't see anything wrong with that...

What about gold farmers, spammers, bots, damage to the economy, and undermining the spirit of the game?  During your justification you chose to ignore those things which affect everyone, just for your own personal benefit.

The same pattern can be found elsewhere, like factory workers for the tobacco industry for example.  They aren't killing anyone, they're just part of the process, just making a living, packaging some boxes, there is nothing wrong with that, besides no one is forcing anyone to smoke, even though nothing can result in doing so other than an addictive ritual slow-motion suicide trap, but those workers are totally justified, right?  Perhaps those workers got all their justification experience from cheating in video games.  I bet you would feel differently if all of that boiled down to the death of someone you cared for.

Originally posted by spinach8puff

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

You obviously buy gold and are taking offense. I wouldn't have enough room to blacklist all cheaters, sadly, the majority of new age players buy gold, hack, glitch, etc. As above posters said, none of them care either, because they are getting what they want now now now and try justifying it in any lame way they can.

I'm actually in school for my BA in Game Art & Design...and believe me when I say I WILL do all I can to bring challenge and the passion of creating quality MMO's back to the drawing board to keep players like you at bay. Meaning deep story lines, chain quests with depth, longer leveling, etc.

 

Fast game play is for console games, NOT MMO's.

 

I'm actually one of those no lifers that can play a game for eight hours a day so I have no need to buy gold actually. If anything I would be one of the ones selling it if my husband didn't play with me most of the time also. lol. I'm actually just posting in the possibility that someone who is strongly against or for one side would open their mind to the possibilities of the other side.

I'm glad you're in school for Game Art & Design and I hope you do bring a game like that back to life for the people who would like it, but I don't see it happening. It's possible, but not very likely in my mind. WoW really did change the MMO genre and I don't see it reverting. If fast game play wasn't meant to be in the MMO genre then WoW wouldn't be such a huge success and other developers wouldn't be trying to do the casual game play as well. Also I didn't mean actually putting cheaters on your in game ignore list. You could always get a notepad and write down all of those people when and if your list fills up

Why are you even on MMORPG forums since cheating is basically a part of every MMO and playing one would mean you are acknowledging and accepting the ugly truth. Wouldn't there be a greater affect in MMOs if everyone who hated cheating just didn't play any MMO instead of complaining while playing one? Maybe the ugly truth is that there are more people than you think that could actually care less about cheating.

 

Caleveira, I actually play Wizard 101. In game money can't even be traded from person to person as far as I know. It has its own item shop and there isn't even a market for selling in game items or accounts from a place like Playerauctions. The game is definitely popular so maybe they actually found a few ways around the cheating problem.

Fast game-play WASN'T meant for MMO's. WoW just made it that way to pull in all the console kiddies because they are tunnel visioned for cash only and not the passion of making a true MMO. THAT is why it's a success, but it had a negative effect on future MMO production, as well as the quality of MMO communities for years to come.

I cannot understand why everyone here feels the need to post the same arguments, both for and against, over and over and over again as if they will eventually manage to change some peoples minds'. It's just not going to happen... if you do manage it however, than said person must have been very weak minded to begin with.

Originally posted by majinant

I cannot understand why everyone here feels the need to post the same arguments, both for and against, over and over and over again as if they will eventually manage to change some peoples minds'. It's just not going to happen... if you do manage it however, than said person must have been very weak minded to begin with.

Circular rhetoric demanding that stubborness is both futile and the path to a strong mind.

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by majinant

I cannot understand why everyone here feels the need to post the same arguments, both for and against, over and over and over again as if they will eventually manage to change some peoples minds'. It's just not going to happen... if you do manage it however, than said person must have been very weak minded to begin with.

Circular rhetoric demanding that stubborness is both futile and the path to a strong mind.

If that makes you feel better to believe that, then go for gold you sxc man!

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Fast game-play WASN'T meant for MMO's. WoW just made it that way to pull in all the console kiddies because they are tunnel visioned for cash only and not the passion of making a true MMO. THAT is why it's a success, but it had a negative effect on future MMO production, as well as the quality of MMO communities for years to come.

In your opinion fast game-play wasn't meant for MMOs and has been the topic of many threads, but it is not for this one. You avoided my other questions, but I still got my answer.

The same threads pop up every now and then and everyone wants to have their opinion heard, majinant. Personally this is the first thread I have found related to buying gold and I wanted to add my two cents since this is a discussion forum. People may not change their minds over something I added, but it's equally possible they will. Maybe they didn't think of one possibility which is vital to picking a side. It doesn't make them weak... it makes them human and humans are imperfect.

Originally posted by spinach8puff

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Fast game-play WASN'T meant for MMO's. WoW just made it that way to pull in all the console kiddies because they are tunnel visioned for cash only and not the passion of making a true MMO. THAT is why it's a success, but it had a negative effect on future MMO production, as well as the quality of MMO communities for years to come.

 

In your opinion fast game-play wasn't meant for MMOs and has been the topic of many threads, but it is not for this one. You avoided my other questions, but I still got my answer.

 

 

The same threads pop up every now and then and everyone wants to have their opinion heard, majinant. Personally this is the first thread I have found related to buying gold and I wanted to add my two cents since this is a discussion forum. People may not change their minds over something I added, but it's equally possible they will. Maybe they didn't think of one possibility which is vital to picking a side. It doesn't make them weak... it makes them human and humans are imperfect.

Why should someone who loves playing MMOs quit playing them so the cheaters can take over? I think companies (sadly) wouldn't care as long as they were still getting paid. Just hoping someday they can make a full proof way of stopping them, or slowing them down much more than they do now. It's probably a dream though.

And it's truly sad if it's the case that the majority could care less about cheating. Says a lot about the way, not just gaming, but the world itself is headed.

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Why should someone who loves playing MMOs quit playing them so the cheaters can take over? I think companies (sadly) wouldn't care as long as they were still getting paid. Just hoping someday they can make a full proof way of stopping them, or slowing them down much more than they do now. It's probably a dream though.

And it's truly sad if it's the case that the majority could care less about cheating. Says a lot about the way, not just gaming, but the world itself is headed.

Game companies are in it for the money right? So if enough people quit then they won't be making as much or any money which would force something to change. With people still paying and playing MMOs while this cheating is going on it is sending a message that you may not like it, but not enough to quit which shows you are fine with it. Like you said, you think the companies wouldn't care as long as they are still getting paid and I agree. The proof is in the pudding.

It does stink that very little is done, but it's an ugly truth where everyone is at fault. That's all I am saying. There's no reason to be upset that humanity isn't as good as you thought. This is how we were built and it should be accepted. If you want the world to be a better place then be the change you want to see.

Long live us gold buyers/sellers.

Get used to it, whiners.

Actually companies are hurt by this: true, no that many people leave because of it, but they are some. There is also general discontent.

Plus, gold buyers get to the end game more quickly, meaning they have more time and chances to get bored before the next expansion, thus leaving the game.

So, gold sellers are siphoning out some suscriptions.

Lastly, it also gives a bad image of the company to not act, even perfunctorily; bad image means less new suscribers coming in.

Originally posted by Forumfall

Long live us gold buyers/sellers.

 

Get used to it, whiners.

How many bots you got working your asian grinder?

---

Originally posted by Forumfall
Long live us gold buyers/sellers.
 
Get used to it, whiners.

---

Oh, look, a troll!

Seriously, this thread is not about whining. We are discussing whether or not gold buying/selling deteriorates the overall fun in a game, both for buyers and non-buyers; what could be done to limit the disavantages of this; whether it is legitimate to replace time spent on game with money.

Up till now, everyone has respected other's position and discussed it, without resorting to insult. Insults generally means you have no more logical argument to oppose and must resort to leading the conversation astray.

In short, you are only making a case against gold buyers/sellers...

Originally posted by spinach8puff

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

You obviously buy gold and are taking offense. I wouldn't have enough room to blacklist all cheaters, sadly, the majority of new age players buy gold, hack, glitch, etc. As above posters said, none of them care either, because they are getting what they want now now now and try justifying it in any lame way they can.

I'm actually in school for my BA in Game Art & Design...and believe me when I say I WILL do all I can to bring challenge and the passion of creating quality MMO's back to the drawing board to keep players like you at bay. Meaning deep story lines, chain quests with depth, longer leveling, etc.

 

Fast game play is for console games, NOT MMO's.

 

I'm actually one of those no lifers that can play a game for eight hours a day so I have no need to buy gold actually. If anything I would be one of the ones selling it if my husband didn't play with me most of the time also. lol. I'm actually just posting in the possibility that someone who is strongly against or for one side would open their mind to the possibilities of the other side.

I'm glad you're in school for Game Art & Design and I hope you do bring a game like that back to life for the people who would like it, but I don't see it happening. It's possible, but not very likely in my mind. WoW really did change the MMO genre and I don't see it reverting. If fast game play wasn't meant to be in the MMO genre then WoW wouldn't be such a huge success and other developers wouldn't be trying to do the casual game play as well. Also I didn't mean actually putting cheaters on your in game ignore list. You could always get a notepad and write down all of those people when and if your list fills up

Why are you even on MMORPG forums since cheating is basically a part of every MMO and playing one would mean you are acknowledging and accepting the ugly truth. Wouldn't there be a greater affect in MMOs if everyone who hated cheating just didn't play any MMO instead of complaining while playing one? Maybe the ugly truth is that there are more people than you think that could actually care less about cheating.

 

Caleveira, I actually play Wizard 101. In game money can't even be traded from person to person as far as I know. It has its own item shop and there isn't even a market for selling in game items or accounts from a place like Playerauctions. The game is definitely popular so maybe they actually found a few ways around the cheating problem.

That games got micros, the way they found around gold farmers was to sell the gold themselves... If you had bothered to read some posts in the thread youd find weve adressed that... The internet makes it easy to cheat, yes, and there certainly must be a ton of people out there who suport the gold farmers economy. I already adressed why "everyones doing it" is not an argument (for those of us who managed to get over high school anyway) and really the issue was pretty much settled in ancient Greece.

You are not cheating since youre not breaking the rules in your game, but what we are discussing is buying gold in those games in which it is in fact considered cheating. Unless you have played such games as we are discussing you actually have no factual experience on which to base your opinions, do you?

I bought gold in Guild Wars a few years back. My reason was that to make any serious money in that game you have to get seriously lucky on your drops and hope for a rare gold weapon that was req 8 or 9 with good stats and nice skin. However, I have never felt the need to buy in WoW as you can actually make money from stuff that drops. All vendor trash in GW was worth jack whereas WoW's can be worth serious amounts. Also the presence of a auction house makes it even easier.

There is one thing I don't get about this whole arguement and thats how everyone says that using a cheat is the worst thing ever. I used to play a lovely game on my Sega Megadrive/Genesis called Ghouls N Ghosts. It was stupidly hard so I used to use a invincibility cheat so I could play through it. And funnily enough people I knew who saw me use the cheat never condemmed me to hell because.. SHOCK! It''s a game and not a matter of life and death.

Now I know I used the service once for Guild Wars so yes, I gave about £7 or so to farmers and also I would love to see it obliterated from MMO's entirely but lets be honest, WoW is still a fun game and it isn't affected that much even with all the people spamming their crap about gold/power levelling.

Originally posted by brocklesnar

I bought gold in Guild Wars a few years back. My reason was that to make any serious money in that game you have to get seriously lucky on your drops and hope for a rare gold weapon that was req 8 or 9 with good stats and nice skin. However, I have never felt the need to buy in WoW as you can actually make money from stuff that drops. All vendor trash in GW was worth jack whereas WoW's can be worth serious amounts. Also the presence of a auction house makes it even easier.

There is one thing I don't get about this whole arguement and thats how everyone says that using a cheat is the worst thing ever. I used to play a lovely game on my Sega Megadrive/Genesis called Ghouls N Ghosts. It was stupidly hard so I used to use a invincibility cheat so I could play through it. And funnily enough people I knew who saw me use the cheat never condemmed me to hell because.. SHOCK! It''s a game and not a matter of life and death.

Now I know I used the service once for Guild Wars so yes, I gave about £7 or so to farmers and also I would love to see it obliterated from MMO's entirely but lets be honest, WoW is still a fun game and it isn't affected that much even with all the people spamming their crap about gold/power levelling.

Ghouls N' Ghosts is a CONSOLE game. Which means your not affecting OTHER PEOPLE'S game experience. MMO's on the other hand involve other players, hence Massive Multi-player Online. And you ARE effecting other players when cheating and/or buying gold. You may not THINK that you buying gold has no effect, but multiply that buy a couple thousand people doing it and you have a server economy collapse, gold buying spam from a player named fguyfguweirfg every 10 seconds, and inflation out the wazoo to where you can't buy anything in an AH.

And WoW isn't affected as you say because any foam helmet wearing drool bib recipient can get almost anything in that game with little effort, so who needs to buy gold, etc. Not many.

Originally posted by brocklesnar

I bought gold in Guild Wars a few years back. My reason was that to make any serious money in that game you have to get seriously lucky on your drops and hope for a rare gold weapon that was req 8 or 9 with good stats and nice skin. However, I have never felt the need to buy in WoW as you can actually make money from stuff that drops. All vendor trash in GW was worth jack whereas WoW's can be worth serious amounts. Also the presence of a auction house makes it even easier.

There is one thing I don't get about this whole arguement and thats how everyone says that using a cheat is the worst thing ever. I used to play a lovely game on my Sega Megadrive/Genesis called Ghouls N Ghosts. It was stupidly hard so I used to use a invincibility cheat so I could play through it. And funnily enough people I knew who saw me use the cheat never condemmed me to hell because.. SHOCK! It''s a game and not a matter of life and death.

Now I know I used the service once for Guild Wars so yes, I gave about £7 or so to farmers and also I would love to see it obliterated from MMO's entirely but lets be honest, WoW is still a fun game and it isn't affected that much even with all the people spamming their crap about gold/power levelling.

My guess is the guy who sold you gold in Guild Wars mustve been incredibly lucky...  And did none of your friends thought to make even a joke watching you play on invincibility mode? Really, i guess cheating on a console game is pretty much the same as doing it in an MMO... As for WoW ill resist the urge to say what i think of people who need to cheat there... All that game really has going for it is endgame which basically goes a) you need gear to get in raids b) you need to raid to get your gear-- What's the point in buying gold?

Originally posted by Chealar

 

---

Originally posted by Forumfall
Long live us gold buyers/sellers.
 
Get used to it, whiners.

---

 

Oh, look, a troll!

Seriously, this thread is not about whining. We are discussing whether or not gold buying/selling deteriorates the overall fun in a game, both for buyers and non-buyers; what could be done to limit the disavantages of this; whether it is legitimate to replace time spent on game with money.

Up till now, everyone has respected other's position and discussed it, without resorting to insult. Insults generally means you have no more logical argument to oppose and must resort to leading the conversation astray.

In short, you are only making a case against gold buyers/sellers...

I see no discussion. All I see is selfrighteous people bitching about how RMT has ruined their game. Strange because while I have used RMT in two games I have also played several games without and I didn't find it affecting me. Learn to adopt to the fucking ingame market/economy and stop overdramatizing.

The only purpose of these threads is so you guys can point fingers at us and feel better about yourselfes and the shit you 'achieved through hard work' (this one always cracks me up) in your particular game.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Scyris

Originally posted by skarwolf

 The first time I encountered this was back in Everquest.  My friend played a bard and we had banded and brass armor and some crappy weapons.  One day he shows up totally decked out in awesome gear.  I asked how he got all that stuff and he told me he bought gold online and not to say anything because you could get banned.  He gave me 500 plat which was a huge amount for me at the time.

I bought gold in EQ2 & WOW.  I'd create a character who got the gold then transfer it in parts to other other characters.  I tried two different companies.  One sent me the gold directly in bulk to whatever character I specified.  Another had some ridiculous method where I had to contact them on the phone and speak to them directly telling them who I was and what character it was.

Heres a way to find out at least in WOW.  They had me place 1 single bandage on the auction set at 200 gold, since I was getting 1000 gold they had me put up 5 bandages.  The person then bought the bandages and I got my money and it appeared legit.  I was never suspended or banned and I bought gold about 3-4 times in WOW.

I view buying game currency as a service. Would you rather dry clean your own clothes or pay someone else to do it while you do other things? its pretty much the same thing with rmting Also before you blame rmt on the ingame item prices, remember that its the players that set the price, and us humans are naturally greedy...AND STUPID!!!

The question is are you greedy enough to ruin the game for everyone?  Buying gold ruins the game for everyone.  There's no disputing it.

BS, pure and simple.  If gold selling truly ruined games, wow (and so many other mmos) would have been dead long ago.  Your silly rhetoric doesn't fool anyone.

Also consider that the rmt industry is a 2 billion + per year industry.  TWO FREAKIN BILLION DOLLARS!!  If you add up all mmoplayers (let's say 25 million for simplicity's sake, adding up wow, l2, and all the other crappy mmos), that means that on average each player spends $80 per year on rmt.  Cut out half of the players and you've got the average rmt'er spending $160 per year on rmt.  Even if you say 2 billion is a crock of bull and slice it down to even $500 million (one quarter), each player is still spending $20 per year average on rmt.  Now, we all know that not every player spends money or rmt, so slice that in half to $40 per player who actually rmt, and we're looking at a pretty realistic number (or if you deal with reported figures we're talking $160 per player).

The point here is that a LOT of people rmt.  rmt obviously cannot destroy the mmo for everyone because such a large portion of the playerbase participates in it!

Originally posted by sonicbrew

Anyone that buys this crap should stop gaming period because they honestly forgot the reason they started playing games in the first place!

This is another problem with the logic of the anti-rmters.  MMOs are not counterstrike, they're not command and conquer, they're not games in the general sense of the word.  They are persistent online environments, with no winner and no loser, and no beginning or end.

You guys just can't comprehend this, and will never understand why you are so darn ignorant about it.  You think it's "clear" that people cheat when they rmt, but you just can't wrap your silly minds around the bigger picture.