If you don't like WoW yet you still pay for an account.

you want to know why we are not getting sandbox games, if you pay for a WoW account ... its YOUR fault. why would game companies take a chance on a high risk sandbox game. when they see how many subscribers are out there willing to play WoW. So yes I do blame the gamer, blizzard is there to make money nothing more nothing less. they aren't going to put out games that push the evolution of MMOs. its obvious gamers dont want that so they will churn out the same tried and true MMO and the zerg will flock to it.

if you want more sandbox games, you have to show game developers you want that .... subscribe to EVE, Fallen Earth, Ryzom or hell any other sandbox game out there. the more subs those games have the more game companies will see there is want for that type of game.

Nope. wrong.

damn...and I thought greedy talentless developers had something to do with it...=(

I agree with this a lot. I tried wow. I hated wow, I don't play. I refuse to reactivate even though friends are pressuring me to play it. WOW is popular and affects the rest of the mmorpg world because the majority of consumers appear to want wow clones. I can't claim that its true, but from what devs have to work with, thats the way it seems. Its the majority's fault for acceptign such a game, and allowing blizzard to addict them to such linear gameplay.

Though I hated the experience, I respect WOW a lot. It is the best for what its deisgned to do. And that is to appeal to mass non-gamer people. That in itself is not a negative thing. What is negative is people trying to apply wow standards to all other games. They complain when its too wow like, and yet complain when every feature wow has isn't in their new games, they complain the learning curve is too high, they complain graphics suck.

If people want something different, they are going to have to accept the fact that the less accessible the game, the more challenging/different/interesting it is, the less people its going to attract, and thus a smaller budget to work with. Something has to be sacrificed for the exchange. Myself Im willing to sacrifice graphics for anything.

Or sanbox games arn't all that good.

Originally posted by Fateus

I agree with this a lot. I tried wow. I hated wow, I don't play. I refuse to reactivate even though friends are pressuring me to play it. WOW is popular and affects the rest of the mmorpg world because the majority of consumers appear to want wow clones. I can't claim that its true, but from what devs have to work with, thats the way it seems. Its the majority's fault for acceptign such a game, and allowing blizzard to addict them to such linear gameplay.

 

Though I hated the experience, I respect WOW a lot. It is the best for what its deisgned to do. And that is to appeal to mass non-gamer people. That in itself is not a negative thing. What is negative is people trying to apply wow standards to all other games. They complain when its too wow like, and yet complain when every feature wow has isn't in their new games, they complain the learning curve is too high, they complain graphics suck.

 

If people want something different, they are going to have to accept the fact that the less accessible the game, the more challenging/different/interesting it is, the less people its going to attract, and thus a smaller budget to work with. Something has to be sacrificed for the exchange. Myself Im willing to sacrifice graphics for anything.

 

 

Well I guess you are wrong also...
 

It really does come down to the players. Devs are going to develop stuff that's worked in the past. Like it or not, I don't care, but when you're a dev and you see game A has 11 million subs and game b has 500k, which would you try to emulate? I realize some of the people here are hardcore and would develop something different. But if you were a true businessman, you'd go for what works, not what a few haters on messageboards think. If you disagree, I guess nothing will change your mind. But if you could clear your minds of the emo WoW hatred, you'd know it's true.

MTV made a craptastic show called the Real World. Many people loved the voyerism aspect and tuned in like crack addicts. Now most of the shit on TV is "reality" television.

Most companies aren't in business to take risks. They are there solely to make money. Someone puts out a sandbox type game and it can  compete with WoW, then companies will jump on the bandwagon. Until then you'll get your WoW clones as that is what people buy. Don't like it, start supporting the crap that is good instead of knock offs like Aion, WAR, AoC etc.

What I can't get is there are many "wow clones" so people say but none made what wow has the best, the huge amount of dungeons there is during the travel to cap (even though with every expansion it ruins the one before them).

I "blame" myself only because I haven't yet made a billion dollars from online poker and built my idea of a cool MMO from scratch.
 

I can't show developers what kind of game I want with my wallet because there aren't any games out there now with most or even much of what I really want.  I have kept my account with CoX active even though I rarely play it because they did have a few jumps over other games.

I can show everyone what isn't my dream by not paying for anything less but, assuming all act as I do, all that really shows game makers is that the industry is dying or dead or maxxed, not that they should redouble their investments and efforts on a seemingly fickle/random consumer base.  Many compainies have tried very hard and invested massive amounts of money to these games lately - if they all fail or mostly fail, game makers aren't going to make an intuitive leap to try plopping $150+ mill on ideas from the niche extremists on internet forums, they're just going to move back to console games based on movies.

Sorry OP but your I disagree. Gaming companies and future developers stood by in awe when Blizzard ate up the online gaming market share. They wanted a piece of  that market. If there were so many "WOW Clones" out there why have none in the past 8 or so years been as successful as Blizzard? The answer is that Blizzard is a solid gaming  company with many loyal  followers long before they made MMORPG's and not to many  gaming companies out there currently can match that. Game developers today put Blizzard on the pedastal not the players. Blizzards success is that they kept it simple from the  beginning from relative low pc  system requirements to the ease of learning curve for the game. And again from a dedicated loyal customer.

 If someone would make a better MMO, people will play it.  Obviously trying to copy WOW doesn't work, excluding Aion;)

People don't like sandboxes because for the most part, they're boring, tedious, have no content and aren't very fun.  Those aren't my words.  Thats majority opinion talking.  NOT Blizzard's fault.  

Originally posted by Jackio81

damn...and I thought greedy talentless developers had something to do with it...=(

its 50/50....

I rather play luna online then WOW TBH...

Yep! I take responsibility for it. I kidnapped the devs and FORCED them! At banana point! I am such a horrible person :( I'm sorry everyone.

I wish more MMOs would try to copy Blizzard's attention to detail and utter commitment to quality instead of trying to copy various WOW features. A perfect example of copying the wrong things is Warhammer. That game didn't need a scenario system like WOW's battlegrounds. Nor did it need an almost exact copy of WOW's combat system. What it needed was a keen sense of PVP balance  and much better server stability and game performance, especially in the higher end areas. 

The biggest reason most people prefer WOW is it's the most stable and polished MMOG on the market. There are plenty of high quality strategy alternatives to Starcraft and several high quality action RPG alternatives to the Diablo series, but very few MMOGs that come close to WOW in terms of production quality or stability. And yes, I recognize that WOW had its problems at launch. But gamers aren't going to sit around and wait for a new game to catch up to WOW anymore.

I love how all the nooblets throw around the phrase "wow clone" like wow wasn't an EQ clone to begin with.  :p

 Ok...

Just out of curiosity...

What the hell is a WoW "clone".

Give one specific example of a WoW "clone", and compare the massive similarities between both games.

I dare you.

Sorry, I won't pay for unfinished, unpolished, uninspired, half-assed garbage.  If that happens to negate 95% of all MMOs on the market, so be it.  But I'm not going to flush my money down the toilet just to send some ideological message to a gaming company that won't give a shit regardless...especially considering that, with success, every game company out there would become Blizzard if they had a shot in hell of accomplishing that feat. 

It's because gamers won't get hooked by the same "Kill 5 <Curiously looking creature> then return to me".
WoW has a lot more than just polish.
You see, there's this Half Life 2 mod, Age of Chivarly, which has better PvP than this wannabe sandbox MMORPG, Darkfall. When people will develop a good sandbox that cares about both MMO and RPG parts, then it will be a hit. But that, that will take years.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

I love how all the nooblets throw around the phrase "wow clone" like wow wasn't an EQ clone to begin with.  :p

I love how people who think they know a lot think calling something an EQ clone makes any sense in todays market?  For example, does WAR, AOC or Aion more closely resemble WOW or EQ?  If you say EQ, who's the nooblet here=)  That be YOU! Do people normally go around calling newer FPSs DOOM clones or would it more appropriate to look to COD or Halo as inspiration?    Are newer RTS games Dune clones?   Vanguard is about the only MMO that could be considered an EQ clone and even thats stretching it=)

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Salvatoris

I love how all the nooblets throw around the phrase "wow clone" like wow wasn't an EQ clone to begin with.  :p

 

I love how people who think they know a lot think calling something an EQ clone makes any sense in todays market?  For example, does WAR, AOC or Aion more closely resemble WOW or EQ?  If you say EQ, who's the nooblet here=)  That be YOU! Do people normally go around calling newer FPSs DOOM clones or would it more appropriate to look to COD or Halo as inspiration?    Are newer RTS games Dune clones?   Vanguard is about the only MMO that could be considered an EQ clone and even thats stretching it=)

Valid point, so tell me what specific game is a "WoW Clone" and how so

My comment was referencing the fact that some people, through either ignorance or stupidity, think that the common features of MMOs (or RPGs in general) were created by Blizzard and first appeared in WoW.  WoW was EQ2 before EQ2 was.  A clone of a clone is still a copy of the original. ;)

Originally posted by Salvatoris

My comment was referencing the fact that some people, through either ignorance or stupidity, think that the common features of MMOs (or RPGs in general) were created by Blizzard and first appeared in WoW.  WoW was EQ2 before EQ2 was.  A clone of a clone is still a copy of the original. ;)

Agree, but I would love to see a AC1 clone with a DT server clone lol

Originally posted by Salvatoris

My comment was referencing the fact that some people, through either ignorance or stupidity, think that the common features of MMOs (or RPGs in general) were created by Blizzard and first appeared in WoW.  WoW was EQ2 before EQ2 was.  A clone of a clone is still a copy of the original. ;)

mm everquest  was made in the 199x 

everquest2 was made what 2004 same time as wow 

who copied who you think

eq2 copied everquest1 

wow copied everquest 1

dont believe this? go try eq1 you ll change fast the graphic are same you go in eq1 and you  feel like your in wow

but eq1 was released what 5 -6 years before 

hell some former eq1 dev went to blizzard to dev wow lol

I disagree.

It's the fault of developers hopping on the Blizzard bandwagon, and instead of creating their own product, choose to copy something that is already popular. That is the reason for all these WoW clones. You can't blame Blizzard or the players for playing their game, but you most certainly can blame those that are copying WoW in hopes of getting rich quick.

I'll play what I want.

It's obvious if you want something other than a linear EQ or WoW type of game, indy sandbox games are the only way to go unless you leave MMOs altogether and play single player Rpgs.

Don't bitch about small pop indy sandbox games just sub to them and let the Linear fans enjoy WoW version 1-100000

Think about it, do you really want these people playing the same game as you? I sure as hell don't.

Edited since the original post would get me a Mod Warning, Sorry mods :)