Cockroaches? Heck you are generous. 

Originally posted by Anubisan

I have bought gold on several occasions in the past...

The way I see it is this: I have a job and other real world responsibilities that take up the vast majority of my time. I have only a small amount of time each day to play my game of choice. I unfortunately cannot afford to play for 8 hours straight each day like many people do. Still, I want to be competitive... so when I have finally reached the end game and I see a piece of gear I can purchase and immediately enhance my character, I have occasionally done so with purchased gold.

I don't see anything wrong with this because advancement in MMORPGs comes down to little more than time spent in game. I have less time to spend in game, but I have more money because I work constantly. If I spent less time working and more time playing MMOs, I would make less money, but my character would be stronger. Buying a little gold occasionally just balances things out ;P

Time = money = advancement.

Sounds like you should stick to console games instead of MMO's, because that's what MMO's are about...time. MMORPG, emphasis on the RPG. Role-Playing Game...and we all know RPG's are NOT short games.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Anubisan

I have bought gold on several occasions in the past...

The way I see it is this: I have a job and other real world responsibilities that take up the vast majority of my time. I have only a small amount of time each day to play my game of choice. I unfortunately cannot afford to play for 8 hours straight each day like many people do. Still, I want to be competitive... so when I have finally reached the end game and I see a piece of gear I can purchase and immediately enhance my character, I have occasionally done so with purchased gold.

I don't see anything wrong with this because advancement in MMORPGs comes down to little more than time spent in game. I have less time to spend in game, but I have more money because I work constantly. If I spent less time working and more time playing MMOs, I would make less money, but my character would be stronger. Buying a little gold occasionally just balances things out ;P

Time = money = advancement.

 

Sounds like you should stick to console games instead of MMO's, because that's what MMO's are about...time. MMORPG, emphasis on the RPG. Role-Playing Game...and we all know RPG's are NOT short games.

As I've said many times before, if you feel so strongly against rmt as an unbalancing factor, then you should feel the exact same about time played.  After all, someone who works a full time job is inherently disadvantaged against the player who has lots of time to play (for whatever reason).  Ultimately, the person you are berating has a valid point, buying gold can not only enhance the enjoyment of a mmo, it can also level the playing ground between those who have lots of time and those who do not.  You can hide behind your eula as much as you want, and claim the moral high ground due to rules, but you know in your heart that time advantage is just as imbalancing as buying gold.

Nope, haven't bought any in-game currency. Eve Online is the only game where it crossed my mind: "Awww sh*t just fitted my battleship, then got blown away instantly..." Had to suck it up and go back mining. :D

Originally posted by Mortemia

Nope, haven't bought any in-game currency. Eve Online is the only game where it crossed my mind: "Awww sh*t just fitted my battleship, then got blown away instantly..." Had to suck it up and go back mining. :D

haha same, but I didn't go back to mining...I just rage "quit".

bottom line for me is every game i have bought gold in........i wound up cancelling within a few months. It killed the nostalgia. Played EQ for years, then gold buying came around. I bought some and quit a few months after 4 years of playing.

I bet subs would be a lot higher these days if all gold marketers vanished. My lesson learned.

Originally posted by heremypet

Look at all the cockroaches coming out of the woodwork!  Each with their own little excuses, how cute.

Come on man.  After your great post about your sandbox idea, surely you can come back with something better than black and white hyperbole.  Surely you realize that this is not a black and white argument, and is instead a healthy shade of gray with valid points from both sides.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by heremypet

Look at all the cockroaches coming out of the woodwork!  Each with their own little excuses, how cute.

 

Come on man.  After your great post about your sandbox idea, surely you can come back with something better than black and white hyperbole.  Surely you realize that this is not a black and white argument, and is instead a healthy shade of gray with valid points from both sides.

Bullshit. You either cheat or you dont. There is not gray area there.  Ive heard all the cheaters excuses and that is what they are, excuses. Buying gold, exploits and hacks are all the same.

People who buy and sell gold online are nothing more then CHEATERS AND COWARDS.  Plus people who visit gold buying sites 200% of the time will get a Trojan Keylogger on thier system and not be aware of it until their accounts gets banned due and then they complain they were hacked when it is thier own stupid fault for visiting a gold buying/selling site. 

SOE has legal means of buying gold via thier own store.  Not many are willing to do this, SOE has to pay taxes for every gold or item sold. 

If you want to be a cowardly cheater and do things the easy way, stay away from the servers I play on. We do not need your type of morons online. Wait a minute I no longer play World of Warcraft due to those same stupid XXXXX cowardly cheaters who buy online gold.  

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Anubisan

I have bought gold on several occasions in the past...

The way I see it is this: I have a job and other real world responsibilities that take up the vast majority of my time. I have only a small amount of time each day to play my game of choice. I unfortunately cannot afford to play for 8 hours straight each day like many people do. Still, I want to be competitive... so when I have finally reached the end game and I see a piece of gear I can purchase and immediately enhance my character, I have occasionally done so with purchased gold.

I don't see anything wrong with this because advancement in MMORPGs comes down to little more than time spent in game. I have less time to spend in game, but I have more money because I work constantly. If I spent less time working and more time playing MMOs, I would make less money, but my character would be stronger. Buying a little gold occasionally just balances things out ;P

Time = money = advancement.

 

Sounds like you should stick to console games instead of MMO's, because that's what MMO's are about...time. MMORPG, emphasis on the RPG. Role-Playing Game...and we all know RPG's are NOT short games.

 

As I've said many times before, if you feel so strongly against rmt as an unbalancing factor, then you should feel the exact same about time played.  After all, someone who works a full time job is inherently disadvantaged against the player who has lots of time to play (for whatever reason).  Ultimately, the person you are berating has a valid point, buying gold can not only enhance the enjoyment of a mmo, it can also level the playing ground between those who have lots of time and those who do not.  You can hide behind your eula as much as you want, and claim the moral high ground due to rules, but you know in your heart that time advantage is just as imbalancing as buying gold.

Well played.  But is probably a subject for a different thread.  I'd love to see a game that prevented people from playing more than 2 or 3 hours a day on the same character.

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Originally posted by Thalarius
SOE has legal means of buying gold via thier own store.

---

Them, Linden Labs, and tons of F2P games. Nobody is bringing this up. You have a whole spectrum, from SoE who is trying to make an extra buck, to F2P games where the devs make most of their money selling in-game items and money, to Linden Labs which actually has a listed world currency and conversion rate because all transactions between players are real life money.

So, how does that balance out? Is it fair, unfair? Some people can afford to spend more on these games...

 Again In short yes. 

I also made a very similar post back in 07. 

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Anubisan

I have bought gold on several occasions in the past...

The way I see it is this: I have a job and other real world responsibilities that take up the vast majority of my time. I have only a small amount of time each day to play my game of choice. I unfortunately cannot afford to play for 8 hours straight each day like many people do. Still, I want to be competitive... so when I have finally reached the end game and I see a piece of gear I can purchase and immediately enhance my character, I have occasionally done so with purchased gold.

I don't see anything wrong with this because advancement in MMORPGs comes down to little more than time spent in game. I have less time to spend in game, but I have more money because I work constantly. If I spent less time working and more time playing MMOs, I would make less money, but my character would be stronger. Buying a little gold occasionally just balances things out ;P

Time = money = advancement.

 

Sounds like you should stick to console games instead of MMO's, because that's what MMO's are about...time. MMORPG, emphasis on the RPG. Role-Playing Game...and we all know RPG's are NOT short games.

 

As I've said many times before, if you feel so strongly against rmt as an unbalancing factor, then you should feel the exact same about time played.  After all, someone who works a full time job is inherently disadvantaged against the player who has lots of time to play (for whatever reason).  Ultimately, the person you are berating has a valid point, buying gold can not only enhance the enjoyment of a mmo, it can also level the playing ground between those who have lots of time and those who do not.  You can hide behind your eula as much as you want, and claim the moral high ground due to rules, but you know in your heart that time advantage is just as imbalancing as buying gold.

First off, I wasn't berating him. Simply stating RPG's are long time spent games (Unless your playing WoW), and that console games are short time (Most) and that sounds more like his gig.

Secondly, what you say may be true for PvP based MMO's, but not PvE based ones. IMO though, PvP shouldn't even be in MMORPG's. It lends to more gold buying due to what you stated, and stagnates the communities with massive amounts of douchebaggery. Or at least shouldn't be mixed WITH PvE based MMO's. They should be built solely on the premise of PvP in mind.

I am absolutely ashamed to say.  I have paid for in game funds.  first of all its stupid because you are paying to play  a game and then turning around and paying someone else to play the game for you in short.  I have not done it since.  I was a cheater, but I am now not a cheater.  I have come to realize that cheating is one of the things that ruined my favorite MMO SWG.  not all the blame can be put on Sony for that one.

I wish we could all just get into an MMO and be mature about it and play it the way its suppose  to be played.  Until we can play games like that they will always add to many patches and nurfs that will always alter games to the point they are no fun to play.

Originally posted by Tisiphone

 

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Originally posted by Thalarius
SOE has legal means of buying gold via thier own store.

---

 

Them, Linden Labs, and tons of F2P games. Nobody is bringing this up. You have a whole spectrum, from SoE who is trying to make an extra buck, to F2P games where the devs make most of their money selling in-game items and money, to Linden Labs which actually has a listed world currency and conversion rate because all transactions between players are real life money.

So, how does that balance out? Is it fair, unfair? Some people can afford to spend more on these games...

I personally like SOE's exchange option, where *players* sell to each other rather than the developer selling gear (not talking fluff gear).  SOE makes plenty of money skimming off the top, but we need an exchange service to be part of a top quality mmo before people finally understand just how many people actually buy this stuff, see how much money the dev can make, and to see just how fun buying and selling can be (think of the AH in real life!).  But the game really has to be designed for it, with cheating safeguards and game mechanics that do not allow easy farming or botting.  

Although I argue for rmt here, it's not that I"m against pure games.  I just firmly believe a top rated mmo with support for rmt has the chance to be a hit.  It's not a mmo that's just about buying up your character, it's about a mmo so in depth that you would need to spend a small fortune to deck out your character.  Top items would be that rare.  Ultimately, YOU would eventually find a top item that you could either use to great effect, trade for item(s) you want/need, or sell it for cash.  Now that's serious reward and serious incentive to play a mmo.  I'm not just talking about loot either.  I'm talking about player and guild housing, battle structures, player cities, shops, factores, components, etc etc etc.  With so much to do, you can play the game for the variety, play it for the glory, play it for the challenge, or play it for the money.   I think that would be a draw for lots and lots of players.  Not everyone, but plenty.

Playing MMOs is a hobby. Buying something to aid me in my hobby isn't a big deal in my opinion. It's like using bait while fishing. Yes, I could just use a hook and waste hours upon hours hoping to get a little closer to my goal, but I could die tomorrow. I want to get as far as I can with the time I am allotted.

Also, Kyleran, there is a game similar to what you had wished. I am unsure if they still do it, but when Fusion Fall first came out your experience gain would decrease the longer you played. Meaning you would have to mob grind for a long time in order to be at the appropriate level/place that you would have been if you'd have logged out and picked up questing the next day.

RMT is the future. You just can't handle it.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by heremypet

Look at all the cockroaches coming out of the woodwork!  Each with their own little excuses, how cute.

 

Come on man.  After your great post about your sandbox idea, surely you can come back with something better than black and white hyperbole.  Surely you realize that this is not a black and white argument, and is instead a healthy shade of gray with valid points from both sides.

If I provide you with an argument in which you can poke a few holes, would that help you convince yourself?

It's the reasoning behind it all, the greed, and the total disregard for everyone else that really gets to me, not just for cheating mind, the mentality persists. 

People argue that one little cheat isn't wrong because it's so insignificant, but what happens when everyone starts thinking that way?  Take one look at counter-strike, that game is totally ruined.  Each one of those cheaters was telling themselves that "it's insignificant", "it's just a game", believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book just playing that one game.  One person buying 1k gold doesn't cause a problem, but when everyone else starts lining up for theirs, I get spammed, my account gets logged and stripped clean, I have to compete with bot farmers, just small little insignificant problems for me, but it affects everyone else too, and this is because of the cheaters and their reasoning. Their small gain at the expense of problems for everyone else, that kind of greed is more repulsive to me than nearly anything else.

I've seen lots of threads around here and I'm pretty floored that so many ppl openly admit to being cheaters. How far is cheating from stealing? It's disrespectfully changing the outcome of something by ignoring the rules.  Rules that YOU agreed to by installing the game - breaking them not only makes you a cheater but a LIAR. You broke your word.... what else does every person have at the core of them other than THEIR WORD. If you break that you have failed as person of value, sorry. You can't be trusted.

At least some had the sense to say, yes I tried it but afterward I noticed or were told of the effect and stopped.

How can you honestly defend this and not see that it affects the rest of the players in a multi-player game, you aren't in a bubble.

Is it any different to these scenarios.

Steal the game from the store - why should I pay for it, other suckers work to get their goodies - I take what I want and that's not cheating it's using my money productively on other things. Why should I mow yards all summer, I don't have the time to invest when I can just put the game in my jacket and leave and I don't feel any sympathy because the game companies are rich enough already. They will never notice it.

Pay for the game with a stolen CC - who cares, it's just someone else's identity, not my problem. I don't have the ability to get a CC so it's going to be easier to take theirs for now. They will never notice it.

Learn about an exploit and spread it all around - it's not cheating it's only using the holes to my advantage. Who cares if the developers figure out, they let it happen - not my fault and I won't say shit until they catch me in the act. They will never notice it.

Buy gold with my stolen CC to make all bow around my skill - who cares I'm literally the ONLY person that buys gold. That's how special I am, someone works for me even in my game because I deserve it. I'm not affecting any economy when I'm the only one doing it - John Doe is - the guy who's CC I'm using. Blame it on him. They will never notice it

Cheating is cheating - no matter the method if you condone it you are shameless. I hope they notice it and I hope you get banned from any game you are doing it in - period.

 In my city they put your name in the paper if you get citations.

I would really love to see a listing of all the gold buyers in some repository. Public humiliation might be something your family and co workers should know about... you bought money and cheated in a  video game... you can't keep a contract... your word isn't worth the paper it's written on.. since you aren't ashamed of it. Maybe one day it would come to that if you continue being a criminal with no conscience.

 I fail to see how buying gold can be considered cheating ?  

I used to hold the same viewpoint.  Actually went out and spent time trying to kill gold farmers.  I'd use the apple from that quest to turn myself into one of the scarlet npc's in plaguelands, flag myself and have some fun.  

The companies push the myth of cheating on people that buying gold is cheating  and you know why ?

They don't want a third party PROFITING from their product.

I bet if one of these gold selling companies told Blizzard they could have a percentage it would suddenly become legit.

lord another one of these threads.  Blame the game for having a crappy design that encourages people to buy gold because games can only come out with gold sinks to keep people playing.

Originally posted by heremypet 

...

It's the reasoning behind it all, the greed, and the total disregard for everyone else that really gets to me, not just for cheating mind, the mentality persists.

...

I am sure you liked Counter-Strike, but if you actually liked it then all of those problems wouldn't have driven you off would they? Meaning you have to take the good with the bad. Not that I'm condoning the act of buying gold, saying it's wrong to buy gold, or saying the fault lies entirely in the game developers for not building the perfect uncheatable game, but it's unrealistic to always expect people to make the morale choice.

Seriously there could be something rational done to prevent every single problem that has been considered an issue in this thread, but there hasn't been in a lot of games. Gold/Item selling businesses have been around for a long time and if game developers are unwilling to make it a serious priority to combat them then they are a part of the problem as well. The fault really doesn't lie with just one party.

I love people with their morality when it comes to gold buying.  These are the same people that pledge to obey traffic laws and then speed because they want to get somewhere a little faster.  How immoral.  Probably fudge their income tax returns, taste food in the self serve bins at a grocery store, lie atleast once a week about something, make fake sick calls to work to have a day off....etc. 

Originally posted by skarwolf

I bet if one of these gold selling companies told Blizzard they could have a percentage it would suddenly become legit.

I'm sure it would...because Blizzard is the anti-christ of the MMO world and would sell it's own workers family members if they could profit from it.

But on a last note from me, because it's a waste of time trying to talk sense into people hell bent on not seeing the negatives of gold selling/buying on every aspect of the gaming world...

It's the same as trying to explain to griefers why they actually suck at PvP. I.E. Kill low levels, but die constantly to equally high levels or run from them. Then try to justify ganking/griefing. It's a waste of time. They will find any loophole to justify their need to do what they do no matter how immoral it is or how many faults you point out to them. Sadly, it's just the way of the world in general these days, not just the gaming world.

What game would not.  Show me the current company not in it for the money.  Sony...Turbine...Mythic?