I don't know about everyone else but I am so tired of logging into this site or any for that matter and hoping there will be a MMO that is worth the time to play. Aion, WoW its all the same. And after you wait a year for a game that you think is good and it turns out to be bust, you are left again waiting a year or "to be announced". 

This site is filled with so much advertising for these worthless mmos of childish animation that requires you pay real cash for stupid items, that you can't find many good one's buried in it. 

I know I can't be the only one that feels that its time for a new generation of MMO's. Is there anyone out there that dares to challenge themselves and use there imagination in creating a new game?(elves,dwarfs, Aion adds wings to elves and calls them angels) Its getting really old. 

Anyone else feel like they are stuck playing a game like WoW not because u love the game because there are no options out there?

So I dare you game developers to actually take a trip to Imagination Land.

P.S. It's also ok to actually have more then 2 sides to a game(Horde vs Alliance) (Angels vs demons) I mean seriously make a few different sides to a game it can only make the game more diverse.

 I will even help you do your jobs

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great

3. Cartoon game play is /fail

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP.

5. Customizable UI's

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

Did I mention no one likes slow games?

Well this is why I will be playing games like Borderlands, Dragon Age, Left 4 Dead 2 until Guild Wars 2 and The Old Republic. Everyone claims they are the next best mmo and when we finally get to play it ,  it disappoints big time. You know the sad thing is that Free Realms may be considered the most successful mmo since the early days of WoW. Aion does well in Korea but in the NA/US it seems to be only 400k subs and might be losing many if they don't fix their queue problem fast. Aoc and War failed big time. Lotro was always average and only did well because there was no other good mmos in 2007. Champions Online doesn't reach the masses but clearly is just average unofrtunately. DCUO will suffer the dame fate as Champions. Fallen Earth seems to be for the niche crowd but is really just average at best.

Next on the fail list is Jumpgate Evolution and Global Agenda. We'll see how these 2 do soon.

 yep and xfire is going down the drain slowly as a rule stick

why?game dev boost showed attendance in their game with bot 

cabal does it probably a bunch of other too

Hey lets list stuff we like and draw the conclusion that anything we dont like isnt good. Your opinion must be the only one that counts right? If you don't like it it is a fail design for sure. This sound wrong to you ? if not well... no one will ever be able to help you.

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options - Agree completely

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great - Disagree, I play EVE, slow and steady wins the race. For those who want action, there are FPS'ers.

3. Cartoon game play is /fail -  They all look like cartoons to me.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP. - Another item I agree with,  not good to blend the two.

5. Customizable UI's - Not a bad feature, not a must have.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded - Disagree, 10 minute travel time is too long? I'll sometimes spend hours traveling in EVE, it adds a strategic element to your movement choices, making the world more realistic.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard. - It isn't the interface that needs changed, its the grouping mechancis (or lack thereof) which determine whether people will want to team with you.  If they do, a simple shout channel actually suffices.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff  -This would be good to have, after my 5th WOW alt I had enough.  Of course, eliminating classes completely sort of solves that issue doesn't it?

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design - Yes, all games should have them.

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb - Its a stategic element like travel time, but perhaps overused.

 

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

Do you promise to buy it if they build it?  You are asking them to take a lot of risk on the unproven, and most new ideas fail.  What indie or off the wall games do you currently play?

Did I mention no one likes slow games? - That would be you, I prefer them, makes thinking more important than doing.

No doubt some innovation is sorely needed in today's MMO's, however if you can find nothing in today's games that you enjoy odds are you never will and will always be looking at the next game over the horizon.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Hey lets list stuff we like and draw the conclusion that anything we dont like isnt good. Your opinion must be the only one that counts right? If you don't like it it is a fail design for sure. This sound wrong to you ? if not well... no one will ever be able to help you.

You can stay inside your box for all I care. Go play all the games out there that are " So damn good" if thats how u feel and troll something else.

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great

3. Cartoon game play is /fail

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP.

5. Customizable UI's

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb

 

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

 

Did I mention no one likes slow games?

Well you just prove that different people like different games.  I as well feel that mmos are in an extremely stale period, but many of the things that you like are turnoffs for me.  Here's hoping we can both find our own preferred game styles in the future.  

Originally posted by pauly6478 

Anyone else feel like they are stuck playing a game like WoW not because u love the game because there are no options out there?

 

Part of the problem is that people do pay and play WoW or a game like WoW.  Because people do, regardless of whether they like them or not, the bottomline is what investors look at to base what game they want to invest in next.  So you may dislike games like WoW, but as long as you pay for a subscription in them, you are aiding in this problem.  Investors and developers don't make other things because they see these games are making money, and money is the strongest incentive they have.

If you like the other games, or older school games, then support those games.  No developers out there will want to make the "next" of something when they don't see enough people playing the current of something.

Originally posted by pauly6478

Originally posted by Carl132p

Hey lets list stuff we like and draw the conclusion that anything we dont like isnt good. Your opinion must be the only one that counts right? If you don't like it it is a fail design for sure. This sound wrong to you ? if not well... no one will ever be able to help you.

 You can stay inside your box for all I care. Go play all the games out there that are " So damn good" if thats how u feel and troll something else.

No sense insulting the guy.  To a degree he's right.

In some cases (class quests) you're probably making the demand without comprehending the remifications.  If a game has a budget for 1000 quests and all of them are common quests, you get 1000 quests.   If each of 10 classes gets 100 class quests, you get 100 quests.  Obviously you'd want some middle-ground split between class and common quests, but the point remains: more class quests means less quests per char (quite a bit less.)

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options

Spreads the population too thin.  2 factions causes enough problems as it is (like imbalanced Destruction to Order populations in Warhammer).  Players are going to favor certain factions and other less played factions are going to have issues overcoming content.

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great

More twitch based gameplay would be great.  I'm sick of every MMO having the same exact ripped from DnD and converted to the PC combat format.

3. Cartoon game play is /fail

Art style is a matter of opinion.  Personally I don't care much about art style as long as the game is fun.  I'm fine with cartoony style gameplay as long as your game at least looks somewhat unique.  Photo-realism isn't all it's cracked up to be especially in a fantasy setting.  Do you not enjoy Pixar movies?  Those are cartoony.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP.

Agree, or only focus on ONE aspect of the game.  A PvP oriented game doesn't need PvE and a PvE game doesn't need PvP.  It's okay to build on these aspects later in the game like WoW did, but trying to make your game appeal to both player types at the start and not seperating the skills is a recipe for disaster.

5. Customizable UI's

True, but not necessary in my opinion.  Most MMOs that aren't free to play have this anyway.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded

While I don't like things like griffin travel or waiting for a teleport where I'm not controlling my character or taking part in some type of action other than waiting, I don't see what's wrong with it taking a long time to travel through the world as long as it's interesting.  Flying and running around on a mount should be cool and it would be nice if you could engage in combat while mounted/flying.  The travel powers are one of the better aspects of Champions Online for instance.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard.

Yeah, forming a team needs to be easy.  A lot of MMOs do poorly in this aspect.  One of the better looking for group systems existed in Everquest (after several patches - I think introduced around PoP) and I haven't seen a LFG system as good as it since.  Why can't we get any improvement over something we saw over 8 years ago?

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff

Designing that much content would be a real hassle; however I don't see a reason why you can't design at least enough content for someone to have at least two areas to pick from for leveling at any given level (like in vanilla WoW).  Why should I want to make alts anyway, there should be enough stuff to do that I'd always be happy playing my main.

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design

Yeah, but auction houses are added to most MMOs nowadays.

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb

While low bag space sucks it's not really a big problem in P2P MMOs.  F2P make it a problem intentionally so you are forced to buy more bag space.

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

Worst advice you could possibly give.  Just what MMOs need less innovation.  We don't have enough themepark WoW clones right now.

Did I mention no one likes slow games?

I play turned based strategy games which is probably the slowest game genre out there.  I enjoy them.  While I wouldn't mind MMOs to get some faster twitch based combat - I really just want to see them do combat differently than autoattack - smack hotkeys in proper order - rinse repeat.  A few MMOs in the horizon trying to change that.

And lastly while you make some good points (and some bad ones) working on these issues isn't going to make a good MMO.  Even with a poor interface and limited bag space a MMO can still be fun and even if MMO devs were to address every single point you made it wouldn't make a MMO fun either.  Half the points you made aren't even related to gameplay which is the most important aspect of any game.

I like turn based strategy games myself too (if only they made more final fantasy tactic like games)

When I say speed I don't speak about turn based games. Those are what they are.

And the innovation part I think I just worded my statement wrong there I do apologize.  

If you can't find a single enjoyable game out of all these games, have you ever considered that the mmorpg genre might not just be for you?

Originally posted by Gameloading

If you can't find a single enjoyable game out of all these games, have you ever considered that the mmorpg genre might not just be for you?

Doubt he'd be using the site if that were the case.  Its more likely he's been playing a while so he's tired of the formula that is still new to some people.  I didn't even read his post though so he could just hate video games.  This is just my guess.

I agree with most of your points, and I will admit that waiting for The Old Republic, Star Trek Online, and The Agency. That it does seem that it will be awhile before the popular games finally are released, guess that's why I haven't played an MMO in months, and have been sticking to playing console games. Not much we can do but wait patiently.

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I don't know about everyone else but I am so tired of logging into this site or any for that matter and hoping there will be a MMO that is worth the time to play. Aion, WoW its all the same. And after you wait a year for a game that you think is good and it turns out to be bust, you are left again waiting a year or "to be announced". 

 If you consider WOW to be the same as other MMO's you might start thinking about changing your playstyle cause both games, as a matter of fact all games are different from each other, unless you are WOWifide then sure many games will be seen as WOW-clones but mainly due to a persona limited playstyle. One day.......people will understand this.

This site is filled with so much advertising for these worthless mmos of childish animation that requires you pay real cash for stupid items, that you can't find many good one's buried in it. 

 This site is filled with games and MMORPG where I personaly like some and dislike many, they are not worthless because there are gamers/people playing them.

I know I can't be the only one that feels that its time for a new generation of MMO's. Is there anyone out there that dares to challenge themselves and use there imagination in creating a new game?(elves,dwarfs, Aion adds wings to elves and calls them angels) Its getting really old. 

 No you're not the only one that wants a change in this genre, but calling other games you might dislike to be fail does not help improve this genre at all.

Anyone else feel like they are stuck playing a game like WoW not because u love the game because there are no options out there?

Nah I never play a game I dislike regardless there might not be anything else, it's those type of people that do more harm towards this indutry then those who simply leave/quite a game.

 

So I dare you game developers to actually take a trip to Imagination Land.

I would dare some gamers to actualy change their playstyle instead of being limited which will result in people pretending every game is a clone, not because of some game but due to their playstyle. If you don't like a game, lets people know, but when a persons starts speaking about fail we already know that person is not really a gamer.

 

P.S. It's also ok to actually have more then 2 sides to a game(Horde vs Alliance) (Angels vs demons) I mean seriously make a few different sides to a game it can only make the game more diverse.

This I agree on and it has been done and could be done again.

Another solution would be do not let yourself get all hyped up for games, don't try to follow every little bit of news you might find on a game you might be waiting for, best thing to do is occasionally read abit of info, but try a game by playing it instead of trying to play games in what is promised, as it's much more fun to play what is given then to try and play what is missing, which I noticed it seems popular to try to play things that are either missing or broken from a game and for some reason that is the main foccus of some people, example visit the VET section of SWG where you will see many VETS only speak about what is broken, which kinda shows what I mean that many have become very limited in how they persieve and play MMORPG's.

I do feel this genre is pretty dumped down in many way, but that's still NOT fail cause as a gamer I am not blind seeing many people enjoy games I might not enjoy which already does not make those games fail.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options - Agree completely - Couldnt agree more

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great - Disagree, I play EVE, slow and steady wins the race. For those who want action, there are FPS'ers. I agree with Kyleran, speed is not necessarily a good thing, especially from a business standpoint where the goal is to keep players for as many monthly sub payments as possible.

3. Cartoon game play is /fail -  They all look like cartoons to me. Again, I agree with Kyleran - some have come closer to realism than others, but in order to keep the graphics to a point where "most" PC's will run the games you wont see true realism anytime soon in my opinion.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP. - Another item I agree with,  not good to blend the two. I agree its not good to blend them, but to some people, like myself, PVP has ruined PVE in alot of ways.

5. Customizable UI's - Not a bad feature, not a must have. Amen - I am a UI customizing whore, and if the game doesnt at least offer some way to customize it with addon's - I will likely not play it for long.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded - Disagree, 10 minute travel time is too long? I'll sometimes spend hours traveling in EVE, it adds a strategic element to your movement choices, making the world more realistic.  Again I have to side with Kyleran, strategic elements such as that are something overlooked alot these days.  Plus they are sometimes good opportunities for a quick afk while traveling.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard. - It isn't the interface that needs changed, its the grouping mechancis (or lack thereof) which determine whether people will want to team with you.  If they do, a simple shout channel actually suffices. Say what you will about the rest of the game, but I fully believe that WAR had it perfect with their open parties.  The actual LFG interface in that game was lacking, but when there was enough of a population - it didn't matter at all...

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff  -This would be good to have, after my 5th WOW alt I had enough.  Of course, eliminating classes completely sort of solves that issue doesn't it? Cosign: Kyleran

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design - Yes, all games should have them. Agreed

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb - Its a stategic element like travel time, but perhaps overused. Agreed with both really if that is possible.

 

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

Do you promise to buy it if they build it?  You are asking them to take a lot of risk on the unproven, and most new ideas fail.  What indie or off the wall games do you currently play?

Did I mention no one likes slow games? - That would be you, I prefer them, makes thinking more important than doing.

No doubt some innovation is sorely needed in today's MMO's, however if you can find nothing in today's games that you enjoy odds are you never will and will always be looking at the next game over the horizon.

 

My main reason for posting this is not just to interject some opposing opinions, but to point out that where some of my opinions may differ only slightly, that slight bit is often enough to make or break the deal for most players.  I agree with the poster who pointed out this OP came across as saying his ideas and opinions are right and therefore the DEV's should do what he says, and that is not necessarily true.  I also agree that he has some good ideas to an extent and his main point that there has been no real incredible "out of the box thinking" is true.  On the other hand tho, I agree with Kyleran again that  "most new ideas fail" - and failures cost lots of money.  No gamer wants another WoW clone persay, but from a financial standpoint, EVERY game company would like a WoW clone from their business perspective (ie: 11m subs x $15/mo...) even though some of them will tell you just the opposite.  What company wouldn't want that kind of cash flow? 

 I'm not saying my opinion is what everyone wants at all. I am just saying by god please make something new and original. Some of us have been playing games for years and would love to see some fresh ideas. I don't think this is a unreasonable request at all.

And get on it soon because it takes years to make these games 

LOL! Funniest topic I ever read.

For one, how do you know those games coming out years from now will be 'good'?

For two, I'm sure you'll think they suck just as much as the current gen because your expectations will only have grown during the wait.

That leaves people in a bit of a bind. You have the choice of enjoying what is out now, deciding that MMOG's just aren't the right genre for you, or live in perpetual disappointment with everything new that comes out.

Why do I feel like I am the only person who actually LIKES the variety of games coming out in this genre?

To the OP, I think you should check out Fallen Earth. 6 sided faction PvP, no classes, skill based, sandbox, gigantic gameworld over 1000 square Km, one server for all players. NO elves, dorfs and wings, lots of Mad Max.

Just give it a little time, right now their server cluster cannot handle the load of players so there is some terrible server lag during prime time but they are working on it.

The problem is, the "good" games aren't years away.  As soon as they come out, everyone decides they suck and are no longer "good" games.  The games that came out this year were last years "good" games.  The games you're looking forward to next year will be the year after's "crappy" games.

It's a never-ending cycle.

Earthrise aint years away...

Originally posted by ozrial

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options - Agree completely - Couldnt agree more

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great - Disagree, I play EVE, slow and steady wins the race. For those who want action, there are FPS'ers. I agree with Kyleran, speed is not necessarily a good thing, especially from a business standpoint where the goal is to keep players for as many monthly sub payments as possible.

Yes, within reason, but only if the devs give you a ton of different things to do.  What kills most games for me is the realization that not only am I being strung along by the devs, but the number of really unique, different things I can do when I log on is really tiny.  Kill these 5 virtually identical-looking and acting mobs over here, or go over there and do the same thing.  After a while, everything starts to look and feel the same and that's when I stop wanting to play.

3. Cartoon game play is /fail -  They all look like cartoons to me. Again, I agree with Kyleran - some have come closer to realism than others, but in order to keep the graphics to a point where "most" PC's will run the games you wont see true realism anytime soon in my opinion.

I really don't want "realism", nor do I care about state-of-the-art graphics, even though my system will run them.  I want much more emphasis on gameplay than eye-candy and that's just not what most MMOs offer.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP. - Another item I agree with,  not good to blend the two. I agree its not good to blend them, but to some people, like myself, PVP has ruined PVE in alot of ways.

I detest PvP with a passion, at least the way it's implemented in most games.  If it's entirely optional, fine.  I opt out.  If it's something I have to engage in whether I want to or not, then chances are I'll bypass the game entirely.  I just don't want to do it, period.

5. Customizable UI's - Not a bad feature, not a must have. Amen - I am a UI customizing whore, and if the game doesnt at least offer some way to customize it with addon's - I will likely not play it for long.

It depends on the UI that comes with the game.  Sometimes I customize it, sometimes I don't.  If what they give me works fine for my gameplay style, I've got no problem leaving things where they are.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded - Disagree, 10 minute travel time is too long? I'll sometimes spend hours traveling in EVE, it adds a strategic element to your movement choices, making the world more realistic.  Again I have to side with Kyleran, strategic elements such as that are something overlooked alot these days.  Plus they are sometimes good opportunities for a quick afk while traveling.

I think the problem is that most game worlds are interesting when you first start playing, but after a while, especially after you've travelled the same road a couple of dozen times, it stops being exciting.  After you've done the 10-minute run a couple of times, it stops being worthwhile.  Back when I played EvE, I'd start travelling and go watch TV.  What's the fun in that?  I want to play the game, not sit around waiting to play the game.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard. - It isn't the interface that needs changed, its the grouping mechancis (or lack thereof) which determine whether people will want to team with you.  If they do, a simple shout channel actually suffices. Say what you will about the rest of the game, but I fully believe that WAR had it perfect with their open parties.  The actual LFG interface in that game was lacking, but when there was enough of a population - it didn't matter at all...

I think the problem with a lot of LFG interfaces is that people put themselves on the LFG list and then forget they did.  It would be nice if you could enter what you wanted to do and the game would automatically inform you of other people who want to do the same thing.  Far too many groupers are terrified of starting a group on their own, which is absolutely silly, but true.  It would also be nice if, once you join a group, you could teleport straight to the rest of the party.  Taking half an hour to run there while everyone sits around is stupid.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff  -This would be good to have, after my 5th WOW alt I had enough.  Of course, eliminating classes completely sort of solves that issue doesn't it? Cosign: Kyleran

Not really when you have games where everyone goes to the exact same places to level.  Levels 1-10 you go here.  Levels 11-15, you go there.  After 3 alts doing the exact same thing over and over and over, it gets boring no matter what class, or classless system you use.  I want to be able to do more than go to the same old place and do the same old thing.

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design - Yes, all games should have them. Agreed

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb - Its a stategic element like travel time, but perhaps overused. Agreed with both really if that is possible.

 I'd much rather see a ton of bag space available, I think having to run back to town to dump your crap is a waste of my time.

My main reason for posting this is not just to interject some opposing opinions, but to point out that where some of my opinions may differ only slightly, that slight bit is often enough to make or break the deal for most players.  I agree with the poster who pointed out this OP came across as saying his ideas and opinions are right and therefore the DEV's should do what he says, and that is not necessarily true.  I also agree that he has some good ideas to an extent and his main point that there has been no real incredible "out of the box thinking" is true.  On the other hand tho, I agree with Kyleran again that  "most new ideas fail" - and failures cost lots of money.  No gamer wants another WoW clone persay, but from a financial standpoint, EVERY game company would like a WoW clone from their business perspective (ie: 11m subs x $15/mo...) even though some of them will tell you just the opposite.  What company wouldn't want that kind of cash flow? 

The problem is, no developer ever looks at *WHY* WoW succeeded, they just think that if they make an exact copy, their copy ought to succeed just like WoW did.  This isn't just an MMO problem, it's a business problem.  You get one popular movie and everyone makes a copy of it.  You get one successful TV show and there's a dozen more exactly like it on other channels.  You get one successful band and suddenly, everyone sounds like them.  People are trying to cash in on the success of others without actually doing the work required to be the success the initial group did that led to success.

Welcome to American Business 101.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options - Agree completely

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great - Disagree, I play EVE, slow and steady wins the race. For those who want action, there are FPS'ers. W R O N G !

3. Cartoon game play is /fail -  They all look like cartoons to me.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP. - Another item I agree with,  not good to blend the two.

5. Customizable UI's - Not a bad feature, not a must have.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded - Disagree, 10 minute travel time is too long? I'll sometimes spend hours traveling in EVE, it adds a strategic element to your movement choices, making the world more realistic.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard. - It isn't the interface that needs changed, its the grouping mechancis (or lack thereof) which determine whether people will want to team with you.  If they do, a simple shout channel actually suffices.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff  -This would be good to have, after my 5th WOW alt I had enough.  Of course, eliminating classes completely sort of solves that issue doesn't it?

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design - Yes, all games should have them.

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb - Its a stategic element like travel time, but perhaps overused.

 

This is just a start - Stop not adding things or thinking outside the box just because other game developers don't.

Do you promise to buy it if they build it?  You are asking them to take a lot of risk on the unproven, and most new ideas fail.  What indie or off the wall games do you currently play?

Did I mention no one likes slow games? - That would be you, I prefer them, makes thinking more important than doing.

No doubt some innovation is sorely needed in today's MMO's, however if you can find nothing in today's games that you enjoy odds are you never will and will always be looking at the next game over the horizon.

 

No offence but I am sick and tired of hearing MMO gimps with 2 left hands bleat out the same old crap about fast-paced twitch gaming being "only good for FPS". To be honest what's turning this genre into a total drag is exactly what 'traditional' MMO gamers like:

Slow... repetitive... skill-free... grinding... for kit... and rep... *yawn*... access to dungeons... *yawn*... lets stir some sh*t up in my corporation and feel all 'political'... mining a rock for 10 minutes... *yawn*... *player falls off chair into coma*

I'm not saying liking this sort of thing is evil or wrong, but there are a significant number of people who desperately want something with MMO depth but FPS pace and skill. If MMOs are going to progress it's not going to be by rehashing the same combat-by-numbers auto-attack stuff.

Aryas

Waiting for:   Global Agenda | Jumpgate Evolution | Black Prophecy | Mortal Online | GuildWars 2

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by ozrial

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by pauly6478

 I will even help you do your jobs

 

1. Multiple factions over 2 - give players options - Agree completely - Couldnt agree more

2. Game speed - Who wants to play a slow game - Run speed is great - Disagree, I play EVE, slow and steady wins the race. For those who want action, there are FPS'ers. I agree with Kyleran, speed is not necessarily a good thing, especially from a business standpoint where the goal is to keep players for as many monthly sub payments as possible.

Yes, within reason, but only if the devs give you a ton of different things to do.  What kills most games for me is the realization that not only am I being strung along by the devs, but the number of really unique, different things I can do when I log on is really tiny.  Kill these 5 virtually identical-looking and acting mobs over here, or go over there and do the same thing.  After a while, everything starts to look and feel the same and that's when I stop wanting to play.

3. Cartoon game play is /fail -  They all look like cartoons to me. Again, I agree with Kyleran - some have come closer to realism than others, but in order to keep the graphics to a point where "most" PC's will run the games you wont see true realism anytime soon in my opinion.

I really don't want "realism", nor do I care about state-of-the-art graphics, even though my system will run them.  I want much more emphasis on gameplay than eye-candy and that's just not what most MMOs offer.

4.  PvP and PvE skills - Guild wars hit this part right when then they made them seperate. That way PvE will stop ruining PvP. - Another item I agree with,  not good to blend the two. I agree its not good to blend them, but to some people, like myself, PVP has ruined PVE in alot of ways.

I detest PvP with a passion, at least the way it's implemented in most games.  If it's entirely optional, fine.  I opt out.  If it's something I have to engage in whether I want to or not, then chances are I'll bypass the game entirely.  I just don't want to do it, period.

5. Customizable UI's - Not a bad feature, not a must have. Amen - I am a UI customizing whore, and if the game doesnt at least offer some way to customize it with addon's - I will likely not play it for long.

It depends on the UI that comes with the game.  Sometimes I customize it, sometimes I don't.  If what they give me works fine for my gameplay style, I've got no problem leaving things where they are.

6. Travel in game -  Having to travel in a mount like in WoW that takes 10 mins to get to a zone is seriously retarded - Disagree, 10 minute travel time is too long? I'll sometimes spend hours traveling in EVE, it adds a strategic element to your movement choices, making the world more realistic.  Again I have to side with Kyleran, strategic elements such as that are something overlooked alot these days.  Plus they are sometimes good opportunities for a quick afk while traveling.

I think the problem is that most game worlds are interesting when you first start playing, but after a while, especially after you've travelled the same road a couple of dozen times, it stops being exciting.  After you've done the 10-minute run a couple of times, it stops being worthwhile.  Back when I played EvE, I'd start travelling and go watch TV.  What's the fun in that?  I want to play the game, not sit around waiting to play the game.

7. Looking for team - So important make a better user interface and people having to sit looking for team all day with no team end up leaving game so u might wanna think here real hard. - It isn't the interface that needs changed, its the grouping mechancis (or lack thereof) which determine whether people will want to team with you.  If they do, a simple shout channel actually suffices. Say what you will about the rest of the game, but I fully believe that WAR had it perfect with their open parties.  The actual LFG interface in that game was lacking, but when there was enough of a population - it didn't matter at all...

I think the problem with a lot of LFG interfaces is that people put themselves on the LFG list and then forget they did.  It would be nice if you could enter what you wanted to do and the game would automatically inform you of other people who want to do the same thing.  Far too many groupers are terrified of starting a group on their own, which is absolutely silly, but true.  It would also be nice if, once you join a group, you could teleport straight to the rest of the party.  Taking half an hour to run there while everyone sits around is stupid.

8. Every class or race has a unique story line - We all make alts who wants to grind the same stuff  -This would be good to have, after my 5th WOW alt I had enough.  Of course, eliminating classes completely sort of solves that issue doesn't it? Cosign: Kyleran

Not really when you have games where everyone goes to the exact same places to level.  Levels 1-10 you go here.  Levels 11-15, you go there.  After 3 alts doing the exact same thing over and over and over, it gets boring no matter what class, or classless system you use.  I want to be able to do more than go to the same old place and do the same old thing.

9. Auction house in WoW is actually a pretty neat design - Yes, all games should have them. Agreed

10. Bag space -  Don't go over board but don't give us low bag space that is really just dumb - Its a stategic element like travel time, but perhaps overused. Agreed with both really if that is possible.

 I'd much rather see a ton of bag space available, I think having to run back to town to dump your crap is a waste of my time.

My main reason for posting this is not just to interject some opposing opinions, but to point out that where some of my opinions may differ only slightly, that slight bit is often enough to make or break the deal for most players.  I agree with the poster who pointed out this OP came across as saying his ideas and opinions are right and therefore the DEV's should do what he says, and that is not necessarily true.  I also agree that he has some good ideas to an extent and his main point that there has been no real incredible "out of the box thinking" is true.  On the other hand tho, I agree with Kyleran again that  "most new ideas fail" - and failures cost lots of money.  No gamer wants another WoW clone persay, but from a financial standpoint, EVERY game company would like a WoW clone from their business perspective (ie: 11m subs x $15/mo...) even though some of them will tell you just the opposite.  What company wouldn't want that kind of cash flow? 

The problem is, no developer ever looks at *WHY* WoW succeeded, they just think that if they make an exact copy, their copy ought to succeed just like WoW did.  This isn't just an MMO problem, it's a business problem.  You get one popular movie and everyone makes a copy of it.  You get one successful TV show and there's a dozen more exactly like it on other channels.  You get one successful band and suddenly, everyone sounds like them.  People are trying to cash in on the success of others without actually doing the work required to be the success the initial group did that led to success.

Welcome to American Business 101.

I couldn't say it better myself. 

I think guild wars was really close to a perfect game as far as all the small details. I just had a hard time with the lack of movement in it. But they are adding jumping to the second so here is hoping. Not to mention it had that aspect to it where people who have a life and can't play 24/7 can actually still pvp without getting gear all over again for every different setup.