I agree  with those who said that it's a bad thing to be as popular as wow... if TOR or any MMO because as popular as WoW that is NOT a good thing particularly... especially from a gamers standpoint. They will then be adjusting the game to appeal to the masses of players ect.. and the MMO will take a turn for the worse like WoW has.

But no this is not going to be the last WoW vs TOR thread so don't even ask.
 

Originally posted by greed0104

I really don't give a damn which is better. Aslong as ToR provides me a polished fun experience then i'm more then happy.

What he said.

 This game can be a wow killer, when I say that I mean it will strip a lot of players from Blizzard, that much is true. This game has a very thought out and amazing gameplay experience (so far promised), but I think Bioware will deliver. I didn't really like KOTOR, in fact I hated it, but I enjoyed the story, just not the gameplay, silly turnbased crap. WoW isn't for everyone, a small percentage of players have never reached max level yet. these players are the target of this game. WoW has a lot of end-game material, but not so much with the road to max level. It's really just quest, quest, instance, and more questing. occassional pvp if your on a pvp server or get to the 9's (19,29,ect.) Really, wow didn't have a real story driven experience except to end game. Like I've heard before, you never really played wow untill you reached 80. That's when you can experience the content like raids and BG's. I enjoy the road to leveling though, it's given me  my player experience. With my shadow priest, I don't even have to look at my buttons anymore, I have a 6th sense for my range in all my spells, I just have to watch as I get closer, the button doesn't even turn from red to white, and I can avoid mobs, talk about no-life. All that built up skill is all I recieved from WoW. TOR, has much more, think of it reversed, endgame, starts at the begining and your driven into a story. Most people think "Oh well your pushed through a story your not driven in games that aren't sandbox." Untrue, play a bioware game and tell me your not in control of what happens. I dare you.

The number of the OP are made up.  There were not, as stated 20 Million different people playing Warcraft at any time, it's possible that there still aren't 20 million different people who've played the Warcraft franchise. Heard of, sure, played? Perhaps not.

100 Million people is a nice random number, maybe for something smaller or recent, like the Matrix.  But when Episode III makes nearly a billion dollars, you're talking about 100 million views right there, not counting those who loved the OT and just didn't like/see the prequels, or got into Star Wars through its many, many, many games, of varying quality.
 

You're looking at a group of, counting casual fans, may number more than 250 Million than 100 Million. A group that's been having conventions for upwards of 20 years, not just in the last five years since WoW got big. 5% (Another made up number) of Star Wars' casual fans very well may be more than 80%% of those who've played Warcraft III.  I don't know the sales stats of Warcraft III, but if that's the best selling and best loved, it's a good indication of how many fans the franchise has, with Episode III, being the best selling, but certainly not the most loved, it may not even be half of the fans of the franchise.  1% of Star Wars' fans may be more than enough to rival a WoW that loses some customers.

Meh.  While I don't think it will have 12.5 million players off the bat or anything, what it comes down to is, how well pvp/crafting/pve/end game/raiding is done.

Yes, there will be people who only play for the story. There will be people that try to make the story go as fast as possible to get to the end.  But in any game, what keeps people playing is what to do post level cap.  They have stated they will have everything.  It's going to come down to how well it is done.

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

/facepalm

So basically the OP. is saying WARCRAFT was a "Blockbuster" hit before WoW. So that implies Star Wars is not a block buster hit. Star Wars the series. Because there was never such a game called "World of warcrafT" before WORLD OF WARCRAFT that would carry fans onto world of craft.  There was Warcraft 1 2 3 and related expansions and books. And there is FAR MORE for the star wars series. So your fucking delusional if you think there is a bigger fan base for Warcraft over the star wars series in general. Lmao. And no I could give two shits for this game infact the interface already looks too wowish for me. Same circle radial bar same stupid looking action bar. Just calling you out on your delusion that there is a bigger fan base for the warcraft series over the star wars series.  Just remember you implied Star wars is not a block buster hit. And that the warcraft series WAS a blockbuster hit BEFORE WORLD OF WARCRAFT. Thats what you said. Lmao. MMMkay back to my mother basement.

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

In the words of my dear friend, "Ridiculous you are."

Face it, you lack the predictive logic to even surmise a proposal on the issue; let alone relevate yourself to the social level upon which those around you reside.

It would be in your best interest to discontinue any acts of heresy if only because you are making yourself sound like a complete tool, rather than applying ANY sensible rhetoric to your claims.

In other words, know not, speak not.

I would like it to stay nichie so I don't deal with as many drunks, useless frat boys that play like crap, and general people who in all honesty if It wasn't a game I'd feed to a sarlac. My mmo words be full of leet speeking morons, and I can't kills them all. :(

See the pearson like four up from me who thinks a game needs lots of end game raids and pvp to be awsome, these are the people that annoy me. A game needs stuff to keep people happy, it does not needs lots of pvp to do that, it just needs meaningful pvp and some good quests and a few good raids. Raids are on the decline in these days of mmo's cause we are in a time when people are working their buts off in their jobs cause, well the economy sucks. So the smaller instances, and teired instance runs are becomeing more popular.

      Be mindful of your premature conclusions. Bear in mind that Star Wars encompas an fanbase that spans 3 generations. That's ....3 generations. In terms of the game itself, TOR, also remember that Bioware has the considerable if not entirely unified backing of the Exiles who formed following the NGE Order 66. Us Exiles alone can pump + 75-100.000 subscribers into the game at any given moment if we so choose. If Bioware is able to appease the Exile community while at the same time appeal to new players which will be their primary target audience then I'd say they're off to a flying start. I have slight misgivings about their lack of focus on crafting, but they have this Exile's full support......for now.

     Dritzz Darkwood

     55th Mechanized Rifle Division

     Tatooine

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

/facepalm

I wasn't sure if he was serious, but then I seen the name and was like "oh shit nvm".

---

Originally posted by greed0104

---

Originally posted by tillamook

---

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow
this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.
tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

---

/facepalm

---

 
I wasn't sure if he was serious, but then I seen the name and was like "oh shit nvm".

---

Stilltsky there does have a passion for the inane.

 Too big to fail?  If another MMO comes to beat it, they can ask for a bailout *rimshot* ...okay stale joke.

But really, the size of WoW will cause its own downfall long before other games will...other games will be woodpeckers at the base of a late game of jenga.  But then again, its what everyone wonders about Microsoft too...when will it fail?  So at the end of the day in "common sense", SWOR won't take over wow purely due to numbers...and at the rate of flames I see about SWOR, I'm just hoping it will be a good game in general (that is if any of the flames actually have merit...which I may beg to differ).

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

theres more than 300k members just on the forums. And this is Bioware were talkin about here... SO shove it where the sun dont shine wow fanboi. Wow sucks, I played it for 3 years. The community is made up of 9/10 people being retards and that 1 person being cool. Wow will be its own downfall. People are getting sick of it and all its BS

Its funny, before the arrival of WoW, MMO subs around 100k were seen as a huge success. Galaxies managed to notch up around 250k subs around launch, before the dark times.

Having played WoW, its good at what it does. Its far from ground breaking but its the kind of game that requires zero brain power to play. You gain xp just for scratching your a**** and of course, one of the key factors - it plays on almost ANY PC and even a Mac.

Then, throw in Blizzards track record, which speaks volumes.

I really dont want SWTOR to be as simple as WoW, I just want it to deliver a superb playing experience. I want quests that ARE engaging rather than the 'go get me 10 bears paws' crap we see in many MMOs. Content is king and I think that will determine just how successful the game is in the long run

Originally posted by wolf11223

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

 

theres more than 300k members just on the forums. And this is Bioware were talkin about here... SO shove it where the sun dont shine wow fanboi. Wow sucks, I played it for 3 years. The community is made up of 9/10 people being retards and that 1 person being cool. Wow will be its own downfall. People are getting sick of it and all its BS

Not that I'm defending stillkillin, but he is NOT a WOW fanoy. He is a PRE-CU SWG fanboy who deludes himself into thinking that the majority want this game to be SWG 2.
 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

But (of course as a WOW fan), I think both ST and SW should get out of the way in the launching period of Cata (Azeroth redone lvl 1 to end game - everyone and his dog will be in line at the midnight shops).

I find this to be some what true as well. SW:TOR could be a great game. But currently WoW has its foundation set. Most MMO players are kinda new to it, their first experience was WoW, and people tend to stick to their first as long as it continues to maintain a enjoyable experience.

I however think SW:TOR and WoW will coexist nicely. ToR already has a nice foundation, that come from BioWare fans, KOTOR fans, and IP fans. All that is left is how enjoyable ToR will be. So far seems to be quite promising. Both seem to offer different and similar experiences. And for you WoW haters, that's not a bad thing.

But planning a release date with Cata on the rise is a huge part of the marketing strategy. Cataclysm will probably keep current WoW players happy, but there are just as many WoW players wanting something new, but may continue to play WoW and pick up another game to enjoy, such as this one. BioWare and Blizzard are both monster companies. This is going to be interesting to watch indeed.

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by skeaser

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

 

Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi.  You DO know that something isn't science fiction simply because it has spaceships and technology in it?  

Science has never been important to the story of Star Wars.  It is a "Space Fantasy", based on the only "space opera" serials that kids grew up on in the good ol' days.  Even Lucas says that his films are simply a Fantasy set in space.  

 

You need to adopt in your definition of what star wars is, a part of science fiction because the only thing fantasy about starwars is the force, just sayin be open minded as you are not entirely correct reguardless of what Lucas said.

 

No, it's not science fiction.  Period.  It has no scientific themes.  Science takes a back seat in star wars. Much more prominent is the force, which is a mystical energy, hence fantasy.

Star Wars takes absolutely no time to explain how anything works. There is no techno-bable about lightspeed or laser guns, they are just there. The only thing it dwells on is this strange magical energy field that the characters can use to become powerful beyond belief.

It is a classic fantasy story, the setting is simply in space.  

Star Wars is a space opera; essentially a fantasy set in space.

People who think something is science fiction just because there are flying ships and laser guns make me headpalm.

Science fiction is a genre of fiction. It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically-established or scientifically-postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).

I would actually argue that the primary difference between Science Fiction and Space Fantasy is that true Science Fiction is completely lacking in any supernatural phenomenon.  But let's ignore that, and focus on this: Even George Lucas has said that he considered Star Wars to be "Space Fantasy" not Science Fiction. You people are disagreeing with the creator.

Here it is from the man himself:

"“What finally emerged through the many drafts of the script has obviously been influenced by science fiction and action adventure I’ve read and seen. And I’ve seen a lot of it. I’m trying to make a classic sort of genre picture, a classic space fantasy in which all the influences are working together. There are certain traditional aspects of the genre I wanted to keep and help perpetuate in Star Wars. I hope it is a big success and a lot of people do space fantasy adventure movies because I want to go and see them.”

THX 1138 differs as much from Star Wars as it does from American Graffiti. THX 1138 is a science fiction film, as opposed to the space fantasy film that Star Wars is."

 

 

 

 

But,but starwars uses big words light "Travel" and "Hut" so it has to be an undeniable Sci-Fi game, because sci-fi mean Science Fiction and the lightsabers, space travel and laser guns make it sci-fi. And besides, this is an inimportant topic. and The force may actually be there just we don't have the means to tap it, thus for is imaginative speculation.

I could honestly care less if SW:TOR draws people from WoW or not as long as it is an enjoyable experience for myself. I would personally start hating the game if it drew in the immature childish behavior of WoWs community. 

Originally posted by wolf11223

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

 

theres more than 300k members just on the forums. And this is Bioware were talkin about here... SO shove it where the sun dont shine wow fanboi. Wow sucks, I played it for 3 years. The community is made up of 9/10 people being retards and that 1 person being cool. Wow will be its own downfall. People are getting sick of it and all its BS

lmao.That is all.

I take it back...that is not all. Just had to add that moronic posts such as this remind me of the simpsons episode when homer is grabbing the donut rigged with electricity....  Bzz, ouch..raches for donut...bzz , ouch, reaches for donut, Bzz, ouch, reaches for donut.....

  You mean to tell me WoW was horrible, yet you played it for 3 frikkin years? I mean c'mon...I banged my kneee on a coffee table once, realised it sucked to do that right away, and tried to not do it anymore..didn't take me 3 years. Takes a special kind of special person to do something that sucks for that long.

you guys may have your thread back now :)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by wolf11223

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

 

theres more than 300k members just on the forums. And this is Bioware were talkin about here... SO shove it where the sun dont shine wow fanboi. Wow sucks, I played it for 3 years. The community is made up of 9/10 people being retards and that 1 person being cool. Wow will be its own downfall. People are getting sick of it and all its BS

Not that I'm defending stillkillin, but he is NOT a WOW fanoy. He is a PRE-CU SWG fanboy who deludes himself into thinking that the majority want this game to be SWG 2.
 

Well I am the number one WOW fan over here and I certainly want to play another good game in a complete other setting.
 

As long as Bioware stays out of the (Xn... Sn)= WOW bracket I am very interested. But first the gameplay then the lore and the hype (Warhammer remember).....

I skip ALL new MMO's after AoC and War. Nothing new until 2010.

2010 will see me in Cata, Star Trek and SW. And I often like predictions: 5M, 300k , 1M respectively on launch and then we'll see the retention rate after 3 months.

I do tend to prefer pure SF elements of ST though, but the "adventure experience" in SW could be very good as an alternative playing style.

But (of course as a WOW fan), I think both ST and SW should get out of the way in the launching period of Cata (Azeroth redone lvl 1 to end game - everyone and his dog will be in line at the midnight shops).

 

Ive never heard of CATA wtf, if its anything like that boring orcs and mages cack WoW zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz then no epic fail everyone but the die hard fanboys will be tired of that type of thing by then you mark MY words

Originally posted by severity3

Originally posted by wolf11223

Originally posted by stillkillin

it won't kill wow

this is what will happen the game will get 300k after it comes out and that number will drop down to 100k after the first month then bioware will start adding things no one wants into the game like more of the storyline bs rather then work on what we really want pvp content and more group content.

tor will last longer then aoc mark my words i give it 2 years maybe

 

theres more than 300k members just on the forums. And this is Bioware were talkin about here... SO shove it where the sun dont shine wow fanboi. Wow sucks, I played it for 3 years. The community is made up of 9/10 people being retards and that 1 person being cool. Wow will be its own downfall. People are getting sick of it and all its BS

lmao.That is all.

 

 

I take it back...that is not all. Just had to add that moronic posts such as this remind me of the simpsons episode when homer is grabbing the donut rigged with electricity....  Bzz, ouch..raches for donut...bzz , ouch, reaches for donut, Bzz, ouch, reaches for donut.....

 

  You mean to tell me WoW was horrible, yet you played it for 3 frikkin years? I mean c'mon...I banged my kneee on a coffee table once, realised it sucked to do that right away, and tried to not do it anymore..didn't take me 3 years. Takes a special kind of special person to do something that sucks for that long.

 

you guys may have your thread back now :)

WoW has a way to pull you back, every other MMO out sucking worse has something to do with it.

You know I think common sense should be retitled "rare sense," since well.......0o

HYPE,

Of the course the numbers are not really. I am just using an example of  known marketing techniques which dictates that any type of market for a product can expect on average a 1- 10 % return based on the population being targeted. I said one to 1 -5% for online MMO's because online marketing is a bit more complicated with variables such as spam and stuff

When I was running promotional events for Clubs in NYC. The average return on any marketed event was 1-10% meaning for every lets 1000 flyers I would have promoters hand out  you could expect anything from 10 to 100 folks showing. This might sound small to you in numbers, but at any given event promoted it had at least 10,000 flyers printed and distributed. Remember this is distributed in NYC which on avr has at least 3-5 million people in it at any given time. I am only aiming for 10,000 people and out of that at best 10% will show which is 1000 people. These were some of the most successful events as the venues were packed.  Most of my events averaged about 400-500 people for spaces which could only hold 700  people at most. I tended to promote lounges more then Big Clubs. Lounges are easier to work with but i digress.

Apply that concept to StarWars in the same fashion. Let say you have X amount of fans for StarWars as a product in general. You need to first figure out an estimate of how many of those fans actually play PC Games. (You can promote to none PC gamers as well but trying to figure out your return on those types of variables is more complicated.) Then from there you deduce that if X amount play PC games and know that SWTOR is being created 1-5% percent might be interested which is very good  in marketing sense if you get 5% or higher. If you have a pool of 10,000,000 possible customers and you get 5% of them to buy the game we are talking about 500,000 gamers.

if you haven't noticed in most successful games they only sell about a few million copies. That is great numbers when your looking at the total population of the gamers market.

Please read the following  article which explains my point further:

http://gigaom.com/2007/06/13/top-ten-most-popular-mmos/

And mind you this was written in 2007 and they used an estimate "For all intents and purposes, the most popular MMOs represent an estimated 50-75% of the total MMO market (30-60 million active users.)"

Wow is listed at 8.5 million that is almost 30% of the total market at the low end of the scale!! ( and about 15% at the higher end).

That is a what we call a RUNAWAY Success my friend. Nobody expected that  or could have predicted it either.

And runaway successes are not easily reproduced.