I don't get the point of the OP. Is there a question here or just a rambling statement?

I don't have a wish for new games for games to fail or an agenda to inform all that it will fail because in comparison to another game or because of blah like the OP does. I'm a simple gamer that enjoys games and hopes they do well so I can play more.

on a sde note...

What  Aion is missing is more / commands!

In Auto Assault you could play in wireframe mode or many other view mods and in EQ2 you used to be able to order pizza with /pizzahut. Come on NCsoft, do more than /boogie.

Really.. I am tired of people saying Developers need to be patient and not release too early. It is usually a case of running out of money, and I couldn't care less about the rest of silly points made that don't even apply to Aion..

For example, Vanguard was released almost a full year of development before intended, because they had no money to keep the process going..

The same can be said of both Warhammer and AoC. EA Mythic had to gut so much content.. 4 of the 6 capitals and so on, to make a release. This has to do with the extensive costs of MMOs, the fact that a lot are risky investments in the fact that if it does indeed "fail" will it be worth the wait and money spent on such a long and expensive investment?

Please, really think this through. Why would a developer release an unfinished game that is not ready for deployment? It is irrational to think they just want to get the game out, developers understand how first impressions give a type of pulse for a game.

To the points made in this thread: Why on Earth would you bring up two games that had nothing to do with your point on Aion? Are you really that non-sensed? 

I didn't read the whole thread but the title "why Aion will fail" is nonsense.

With 3.5 million worldwide subs Aion is already an outstanding success in any bodies language & will net NCSoft a big profit no matter what happens. 

Until someone releases another ground breaking mmo like Wow (which wasn't that original) & who's to say Aion wont get more than a million western subs it will go down as a very worthwhile investment second only to the tremendously successful Lineage II.

You know, OP: The world is larger than Asia and North america.

In fact did War rather ok in NA but totaly flopped in Europe and Oceania. The problem with that was of course that Warhammer have most fans in Europe and only very few people play it there.

Mythics big failure was to not be able to get the Warhammer fans play WAR. It have nothing to do with being released early (well that and cutting content never helps of course). They took a great IP and turned it into a slightly more PvP based version of Wow.

As for AoC they just released it 1 or even 2 years too early with so little content that most players were done with it fast.

It is true that Aion have very little new things in it and it will never beat Wows top of 13 million players or so. But it is already a success since the game is doing good in it's mainly targeted market: South Korea.

No, it is very unlikely that Aion will be the biggest P2P MMO but that doesn't make it a failure.

Besides does NC soft have another Ace in it's sleeve for the western market: Guildwars 2. Yes, they are only publishing it but few other MMOs will be able to compete with it. So the people that doesn't like grind will play GW2 while the ones that does will play Aion, that does sound like a smart strategy to me.

You can't make a game both for people who like grind and for the ones that doesn't. Making one game for each those groups is the best strategy. Competing with yourself is not a good idea and there is actually a lot of western players that want to grind stuff, even if they are not so many as in Asia.

I wouldn't worry about NC softs future, I think Turbine is in more trouble.

Originally posted by DJXeon

I didn't read the whole thread but the title "why Aion will fail" is nonsense.

With 3.5 million worldwide subs Aion is already an outstanding success in any bodies language & will net NCSoft a big profit no matter what happens. 

Until someone releases another ground breaking mmo like Wow (which wasn't that original) & who's to say Aion wont get more than a million western subs it will go down as a very worthwhile investment second only to the tremendously successful Lineage II.

To say a game like WoW isn't groundbreaking is silly. Did it add anything new to the genre? Yes, maybe not in terms of features but definitely in the perception of playability. What was WoW's big thing during development? Most of their big decisions, just like any other game Blizzard makes, was they wanted this game to be playable by everyone.. from graphics to gameplay that was the theme. This is theme, with the simplicity model and vast array of instances that made WoW a groundbreaking game. Since it's release in late 2004.. instances are used way too much, and that has to do with what WoW was able to accomplish and the ease it puts on developers and user's computers.
 

Originally posted by Zathoral

I'm not saiyng its proof. But I would bet all of the money I have that it will not be highly successful. Only players who have played to 30+ understand that the game is quite grindy. Those who haven't made it that far will tell you "I quested to level 20 so stfu"... 1-20 is a walk in the park. 30-50 is when the grind begins, and the time require really grows exponentially  from level 25 onward.

Aion has, what.. ~4 million players already in its Eastern markets? I'd say that's already pretty damn successful.

And, before anyone says "but... but... that's the *Eatern* markets, and they don't count"... spare it. In terms of a game's success overall, its popularity in other regions *does* count. Whether it's in Manhattan or Moscow... it's still the same game.

I can respect the OP's opinion because the statement was well thought out.  Although I agree Aion does NOT do anything new, I frankly can't understand why mmos coming out HAVE to do somethng new.  If an mmo expands on existing conventions and does them well, thats what we should be asking for. 

I also believe the OP is like many of us; that he is disillusioned by the MMO genre.  We're all looking for that first feeling of euphora when we played a game that was special.  For me it was walking into Darnassus, with the music loud in my ears and me staring up at that big ass tree.  I can fully respect a person that is searching for that feeling again.

Unfourtnatly I dont think we will ever get that feeling again.  Each person has to figure out what they need in an mmo, what they MUST have and act accordingly.  I do agree that Aion has some work to do, but its foundation is more solid and promising than any game that has come out since WoW.  If they address some issues, like lack of content in some areas, it will have a long shelf life. 

Well its just my 2cents

Aion will not fail.

Blah Blah, same old, same old didn't read anything

Originally posted by Zathoral

             Aion has been hyped just as much as any other mmo before it. Warhammer was hyped to be great, Age of Conan was hyped to be great, they all were, and they all did some things right, but many things wrong. Aion is in many ways no different.

 

Let me talk about Age of Conan and Warhammer first. What was the issue with these games that caused them to fail as they did? I think that most people unanimously agree that both games were not polished, lacked content, and were released too early. Both warhammer and Age of Conan did some things well. Most would agree that AoC had an innovative and entertaining combat system despite some flaws, and many would agree that Warhammer had fairly good PvP gameplay, and that the ability to level through PvP made the process of leveling much less of a bore.

 

Both games had potential from the start. What killed them both was the fact that both products were released before they were ready, and that both games were in an "infant" state so to speak. Realistically nobody expects a new game to have the same levels of content as an established game like world of warcraft, and age of conan and warhammer did not have content that could compare to WoW. I think we all understood that both games could compete with WoW if more promising content was added as the game aged, but players are presented with a choice. Does a player want to play WoW, or Warhammer/Aoc. We all have access to all mmos if we pay the price, so why would we choose warhammer and Aoc over established, polished, and content rich games? The only answer that makes sense is "Because warhammer and AoC show promise in the future, and X player is willing to wait it out and see what content is added".

 

This is what kills new games. WoW was no different when it was released. It lacked content, and it was bug filled, but it and EQ2 were the first of a new generation of mmos, and therefore there were really no other games with richer content for players to choose. This gave developers precious time to expand their games and polish them eventually leading to the solid games that exist today.

 

Is Aion different? This is a question that every knowledgeable gamer has been asking him or her self. Aion has an advantage that AoC and War did not have. Aion was released in korea and china, and has been polished and expanded there before being introduced to the North American market. This is a huge advantage and eliminates the issues that plagued AoC and Warhammer, but does that mean Aion will succeed? In my opinion it does not. Aion has good content, Aion is polished, but Aion is not original. Warhammer and AoC both had a lot of original concepts, they both offered something new. Aion does not. While flying and PvPvE have been marketed as innovation, they simply are not. Flying only offers so much excitement, and creates a plethora of balancing issues that would not othwerwise exist. PvPvE is simply a term created to label a previously existing concept that exists in most other mmos. PvPvE is a PvP enabled zone... nothing more. The abyss is a zone filled with mobs in which you can PvP. It is not an amazing new concept dont let yourself be convinced otherwise.

 

All of those points do not make Aion a bad game, Aion is not a bad game. Aion is a niche game. Why? Because Aion is grindy. Why did Aion have such success in eastern markets? Because eastern gamers enjoy grinding far more than us westerners. This is a general statement please do not give me individual cases as I understand that there are americans who enjoy grinding more than some koreans. That being said,  it is essentially fact that most NA players do not like to grind for long periods of time. In Aion you will HAVE TO grind for long periods of time. Level 30-50 involves extensive amounts of grinding. It is not nearly comparable to games like lineage 2, but it is still grindy, and that will still deter many many players. Aion will fail for this reason alone.

 

The future of mmos does not involve grinding. In the future grinding will be nonexistant. What the genre needs is a way to level that is entertaining, but does not sacrafice the sense of accomplishment that you get from leveling. There are many ways to accomplish this, one of which has already been introduced by warhammer.

 

The next mmo that will become as succesful or nearly as succesful as WoW will involve several ways for characters to level all of which are appealing to different types of players. Grinding doesn't need to be eliminated as many players enjoy it, there simply needs to be alternatives. On top of this the games need to be developed and launched with more care and patience. We all know from AoC and War that releasing a product too early leads to disaster. Developers need to take more time to both polish their game, and expand it's content. The combination of patience, polish, content, and diverse paths to leveling will lead to a great mmo, and a next generation mmo.

 

Oh gawd wall of text run.

Haha, didnt read a word of it. Good write up though! Whether you think Aion will fail or not I'll be playing it, having hella fun so far.

Good luck where ever you end up bud!

Originally posted by Zathoral

I'm not saiyng its proof. But I would bet all of the money I have that it will not be highly successful. Only players who have played to 30+ understand that the game is quite grindy. Those who haven't made it that far will tell you "I quested to level 20 so stfu"... 1-20 is a walk in the park. 30-50 is when the grind begins, and the time require really grows exponentially  from level 25 onward.

Personally I didnt sign up to Aion to quest...quest..and quest some more. I enjoy just going out killing mobs with my g/f. I perfer having to work for levels rather then have a journal of 10-20 quests to do. I often just go out to kill mobs for loot and to practise combat for pvp.  Even just going out and helping others is fun because I'm never worried about whether they have the same quests I do

I'm through with quest grinding MMOs. I'll go play WoW or LOTRO if I want to grind quests until I pull my hair out

Originally posted by DJXeon

With 3.5 million worldwide subs Aion is already an outstanding success in any bodies language & will net NCSoft a big profit no matter what happens. 

Until someone releases another ground breaking mmo like Wow (which wasn't that original) & who's to say Aion wont get more than a million western subs it will go down as a very worthwhile investment second only to the tremendously successful Lineage II.

To make it easy: just link the official NCSoft statement they ever had those mysterious 3.5 million.

The problem is: you can't. All is hear say.

Now even 1 or 2 million is not bad either. Grtz for Aion.

But eastern subscriptions based on ... logging in once during the past month and paying for one hour of play is not exactly the same as the western monthly subscriptions.

Originally posted by Ethian

Originally posted by Zathoral

I'm not saiyng its proof. But I would bet all of the money I have that it will not be highly successful. Only players who have played to 30+ understand that the game is quite grindy. Those who haven't made it that far will tell you "I quested to level 20 so stfu"... 1-20 is a walk in the park. 30-50 is when the grind begins, and the time require really grows exponentially  from level 25 onward.

 

Personally I didnt sign up to Aion to quest...quest..and quest some more. I enjoy just going out killing mobs with my g/f. I perfer having to work for levels rather then have a journal of 10-20 quests to do. I often just go out to kill mobs for loot and to practise combat for pvp.  Even just going out and helping others is fun because I'm never worried about whether they have the same quests I do

I'm through with quest grinding MMOs. I'll go play WoW or LOTRO if I want to grind quests until I pull my hair out

go play Lineage 2 -- from the way you are talking that game was MADE for you.
 

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by DJXeon

With 3.5 million worldwide subs Aion is already an outstanding success in any bodies language & will net NCSoft a big profit no matter what happens. 

Until someone releases another ground breaking mmo like Wow (which wasn't that original) & who's to say Aion wont get more than a million western subs it will go down as a very worthwhile investment second only to the tremendously successful Lineage II.

 

To make it easy: just link the official NCSoft statement they ever had those mysterious 3.5 million.

The problem is: you can't. All is hear say.

Now even 1 or 2 million is not bad either. Grtz for Aion.

But eastern subscriptions based on ... logging in once during the past month and paying for one hour of play is not exactly the same as the western monthly subscriptions.

13 full servers -- and thats not hearsay.   I play the game.  hope thats easy enough for you.

Originally posted by mmoguy43

I don't have a wish for new games for games to fail or an agenda to inform all that it will fail because in comparison to another game or because of blah like the OP does. I'm a simple gamer that enjoys games and hopes they do well so I can play more.

 

on a sde note...

What  Aion is missing is more / commands!

 

In Auto Assault you could play in wireframe mode or many other view mods and in EQ2 you used to be able to order pizza with /pizzahut. Come on NCsoft, do more than /boogie.

you did say "used" to -- right ?  "used" as in past tense right ?  if so, then you see how good of an idea that is/was.

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Originally posted by DJXeon

I didn't read the whole thread but the title "why Aion will fail" is nonsense.

With 3.5 million worldwide subs Aion is already an outstanding success in any bodies language & will net NCSoft a big profit no matter what happens. 

Until someone releases another ground breaking mmo like Wow (which wasn't that original) & who's to say Aion wont get more than a million western subs it will go down as a very worthwhile investment second only to the tremendously successful Lineage II.

To say a game like WoW isn't groundbreaking is silly. Did it add anything new to the genre? Yes, maybe not in terms of features but definitely in the perception of playability. What was WoW's big thing during development? Most of their big decisions, just like any other game Blizzard makes, was they wanted this game to be playable by everyone.. from graphics to gameplay that was the theme. This is theme, with the simplicity model and vast array of instances that made WoW a groundbreaking game. Since it's release in late 2004.. instances are used way too much, and that has to do with what WoW was able to accomplish and the ease it puts on developers and user's computers.
 

wow is groundbreaking to me in the sense it raped a pretty cool IP for the sake of 13 million subs.  consisted mainly of kids with crappy computers and gold farmers.
 

enjoy !!

Originally posted by Aznmask

Originally posted by Zathoral

            "Because warhammer and AoC show promise in the future, and X player is willing to wait it out and see what content is added".

 

Base on that statement i think you haven't play AOC or WAR. I think AOC OR WAR dieing wasn't  about the content, promise. It is the fact that Blizzard have brain wash most common mmo player with the easy gameplay in WOW.

 This is like comparing a McDonald to a high quality  burger restaurant. I mean why Mcdonald can be so big and the food suck but why ppl still eat them. Why some high quality burger restaurant not success because they didnt adapt to common ppl's (budget, location, fast food place).

IS there any fast food franchise can replace McDonald? NO..

replace no.  compete yes ?  steal a fair portion of customers ?  yes.  if you doubt me, ask taco bell.  YUM! brands does quite well competing with that behemoth McDonalds.  The point is people want choice.  Is Mcdonalds wildly succefful -- YES.  Does that mean thats all people eat and want to eat when they go fast food ? -- NO.  Same with MMOs.  I dont think I am alone in having played MMOs for quite a while now and feel that wow is one of the worst MMOs out there.  For those who love it, more power to them.  I have no desire, nor have ever had the desire to play the same game, MMO or otherwise for years and years and years on end.  Gets old after enough time.  A good portion of people who still play wow, its their first MMO.  ALL and I mean ALL of my RL friends who played other MMOs before wow have long since departed Azeroth with zero intention of ever returning.  wow players have earned a reputation for not being able to think outside the wow box -- for having invested so much time, money and effort into a virtual character, that they are almost afraid to leave the game.  Sad, but true.
 

Originally posted by Tyvolus2

Originally posted by camp11111

 

To make it easy: just link the official NCSoft statement they ever had those mysterious 3.5 million.

The problem is: you can't. All is hear say.

Now even 1 or 2 million is not bad either. Grtz for Aion.

But eastern subscriptions based on ... logging in once during the past month and paying for one hour of play is not exactly the same as the western monthly subscriptions.

 

13 full servers -- and thats not hearsay.   I play the game.  hope thats easy enough for you.

That's ok: 13 full servers time 7 K concurrent users on line = 91 K players in both US and EU.

Out of a confirmed 400K selling product that makes sometimes for great  queuing lines.

But it doesn't add anything to what I asked for....

Show me the official link of NCsoft and the supposed 3.5 mlllion playing this game.

You can't.

Originally posted by camp11111

Originally posted by Tyvolus2

Originally posted by camp11111

 

To make it easy: just link the official NCSoft statement they ever had those mysterious 3.5 million.

The problem is: you can't. All is hear say.

Now even 1 or 2 million is not bad either. Grtz for Aion.

But eastern subscriptions based on ... logging in once during the past month and paying for one hour of play is not exactly the same as the western monthly subscriptions.

 

13 full servers -- and thats not hearsay.   I play the game.  hope thats easy enough for you.

 

That's ok: 13 full servers time 7 K concurrent users on line = 91 K players in both US and EU.

Out of a confirmed 400K selling product that makes sometimes for great  queuing lines.

But it doesn't add anything to what I asked for....

Show me the official link of NCsoft and the supposed 3.5 mlllion playing this game.

You can't.

I can't ?  More like I WONT.  Nothing more to prove to you other then the fact the game has 13 HEALTHY (N.A.) servers.  NCSOFT is a public company and you obviously have access to a computer.  You have access to the internet.  You have access to google.  You have at the most 2 brain cells (dont worry that is just enough).  Use all of these things to do the research yourself and find the answer you seek.  Consider this my "quest" to you.
 

Originally posted by Toddv1

Originally posted by grimmbot

 But here's the problem: MMO gaming is a hobby. Every hobby can arguably be a grind. Put a bunch of model airplanes together, go ice skating, build a train set, go hiking. All repeated tasks with smaller variations. Single Player RPGs, at least as far back as the 8-Bit Dragon Warrior series, have had grinds.

The future of MMORPGs will have grinds. They have to.

The reason I opt only for PvP-enabled MMOs is that, so far as grinds go, PvP offers the greatest variation of experience on a daily basis. This wasn't so in WAR because Renown Rank requirements pigeonholed what people were willing to do -- and so it became boring and self-defeating and I left.

 

You're still defining "grinding" incorrectly.

Grinding = killing mobs repeatedly to gain xp.

Questing is not grinding.

If you're planning to play Aion past lvl 30, you will be spending over half your time killing mobs repeatedly with no quest rewards because that's just the type of game it is.  If you don't like the idea of that, Aion is not for you.  As I've said, I've seen this first hand on 3 different chars.  I actually prefer grinding to questing though, so I'm having a good time.  This is a Korean MMO.  Killing mobs repeatedly for hours with no quest rewards is part of the game.

P.S.  Aion is not even close to a GW clone.  It's a Lineage 2 clone.  The games are nearly exactly the same in every detail.

Is it a clone when it comes to subs and total servers ?  No you say ?  well guess it isnt such a L2 clone is it then.  The two games are on different planets of popularity my friend.  If It were truly a L2 clone as much as you imply, then no way it is doing so well compared to L2.  And that goes for L2 present day and/or when it first launched -- But, eh, nice try.
 

I called Mrs Cleo one time...

All these types of game will die off eventually, there is always something new just around the corner.  I think you just have to enjoy the moment.