Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

Originally posted by metalhead980

Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

ofc a sandbox can have quests  but if quests are a must in order to advance in game the sandbox fails

Originally posted by metalhead980

Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

pay no attention to those post, many people have their own defination of a sandbox. 

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by metalhead980

Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

ofc a sandbox can have quests  but if quests are a must in order to advance in game the sandbox fails

then what is your point? quests are not a must in FE, just more effiecient.

Originally posted by Ponico

Originally posted by TheHatter

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by TheHatter

There are PLENTY of Crafting/scavenging Quests. You just have to do the right chains and find them. Remember, you wanted a sandbox game and in a sandbox game, there is no hand holding.

 I'd say half of my levels came from combat quests, the other came from crafting/scavenging quests.

End of discussion. lol

your reply pretty much kill the sandbox sentence

 

Why? Cause you quest? 

It's not EVE. Skills don't train in real time. I don't play EVE for that very reason.

You can start FE in 6yrs and with enough time and dedication, you could smash people who started in pre-Launch. Same can't be said for EVE. That mechanic is a double edged sword, it allows for a much more open game but at the same time detours alot of people away.

 

EVE's a great game though. Don't take this reply as meaning that I think it's bad. I have reactivated my EVE account at least 7 or 8 times since launch.

 

You are completely wrong.

 

Let’s say you started today and decided to fly assault frigates. So for 1 month you train all your primary and sub skills to V and bang, you’re ready to fight.

So you decide to have a fight against me in the exact same ship and all. (just to make it extremely fair)

Well guess what, even if I have 40 million skillpoints, it doesn’t matter. I am only using a few of my skills to pilot the assault frigate. Eevn if I have Doomsday device and dreadnaughts technology at my disposal, in my Assault frigate, it won’t matter. You’ll be an equal match to me and perhaps I’ll have a few 5% here and there over you but that’s rarely enough to make a huge difference. I’ll probably kill you by experience and knowledge but that’s something you’ll learn as you play.

The only difference between me and a more advance player is the fact that he can probably fly more ships then me. I can fly every Gallente ships except the Dread and Titan and that’s by choice.

I’ve seen 3 months old players kicking ass in PVP (group/solo). That’s the beauty of the game, a 1 day old player can completely turn a battle around if he’s well guided by a fleet commander.
 

You're right, even if you're in the EXACT same ship, you're still going to have better energy consumption. But, is that ever the case? Are you really going to turn down using much better weapons/mods because you don't want to? Because you want to make it fair? No, with your 40mil SP, you're going to be able to equip MUCH better weapons and mods in the exact same ship, than a 1 month old player could even hope for.

Fact of the matter is, you're not going to see this "even" combat in EVE. People are going to fly the best ships they can affordably fly (old players USUALLY can afford a bigger ship too).

Older players love to make the argument and it really has no grounds. My pilot has 25mil SP and I dare you to say that a newbie in his first Assault Frig could match me 1v1. I could take out him, and 4 of his buddies, because I'm not going to use the same crappy weapons and mods he uses, I'm going to fit what I put SP into. But even if I had the EXACT same ship and weapons and mods as him, I'm still going to be harvesting his goodies in less than a minute.

And don't even start about the 1v1 crap that I've heard before. Most combat in EVE is low number, usually 3 or 4 or less against 3 or 4 or less. Not to mention, I've seen an old player take out 4bil worth of ships in 10 seconds from a freaking HAC. I know, I was on the receiving end. Jumped in on us, wiped the floor with us in 10 seconds flat, then warped away laughing. More power to him, we were hunting him, but still.... SP means a better ship and you'll never be able to match a high SP combat player. You may be able to match a high SP player who's specced into mining, hauling, corp management, support and combat, but not one who's primarily gone combat. It's a useless futile argument, old EVE players love to give. I've even used it before, but in reality it just simply isn't the case.

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by metalhead980

Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

ofc a sandbox can have quests  but if quests are a must in order to advance in game the sandbox fails

You can make top level with only doing 1 single quest. "I do not wish to do the tutorial" quest that you get at the first computer. Last option.

You have all the ability in the world to go around and harvest things, then make things and level up completely that way.... or go out and kill things over and over and over. You're not required to do any quests. If you want extra AP you need to do quests and if you want mutations, you have to do quests. Other than that, it's up to you.

You don't NEED AP and you don't NEED mutations. You can be a fully competent Pisoleer/PVPer with the 880 AP they give you just by making levels. I actually design my builds around 880 AP and everything else is just extra.

I'm really thinking about getting this but still on the fence about it. The crafting is really pushing me to it, but I still have some questions on it. For crafting can you learn to craft everything, or are there different "schools" of crafting where you can only take one or two? Also is it possible to be almost pure crafting and still be able to access resources or will everything just kill me? I really need a good crafting game hehe

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by metalhead980

Wtf? Now Sandbox games can't have quests?

Man, that means no game is a sandbox?

ofc a sandbox can have quests  but if quests are a must in order to advance in game the sandbox fails

I don't think they are.

I personally hate missions/quests in general and just roam around and skill up that way. Im sure theres a crafting/gathering equivalent.

Originally posted by TheShimmers

I'm really thinking about getting this but still on the fence about it. The crafting is really pushing me to it, but I still have some questions on it. For crafting can you learn to craft everything, or are there different "schools" of crafting where you can only take one or two? Also is it possible to be almost pure crafting and still be able to access resources or will everything just kill me? I really need a good crafting game hehe

The answer to both your questions is basically YES. - you can learn all crafting (albeit mastering all of them would take a lifetime, of course..), also, you can have access to all rawmats, but I assume pristine high level materials must be located in a more dangerous environment - I haven't reached high or even mid-levels in the game yet, so someone else will surely know better!

Welcome ingame soon :)

DB

Originally posted by mbd1968

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah saying it's sandbox while talking about quest chains.... is a pretty big contradiction

By your definition, EVE is not sandbox either. Eve has missions and mission chains.

Yes but you can avoid them completely. I play a miner partly for this reason, to avoid 'quests'. To me it seems far less contrived. Ore I mine I sell to other players or use to make things for other players. I suppose the question is can you build a crafting character in FE the way you can in Eve? Do nothing but craft/harvest and not be a second-class citizen.

Originally posted by Mahlo

Originally posted by mbd1968

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah saying it's sandbox while talking about quest chains.... is a pretty big contradiction

By your definition, EVE is not sandbox either. Eve has missions and mission chains.

 

Yes but you can avoid them completely. I play a miner partly for this reason, to avoid 'quests'. To me it seems far less contrived. Ore I mine I sell to other players or use to make things for other players. I suppose the question is can you build a crafting character in FE the way you can in Eve? Do nothing but craft/harvest and not be a second-class citizen.

Yes you can actually because you can still get exp from crafting and gathering while killing mobs to harvest all of which gives you xp. You can avoid quests if you want but it will make things slightly slower.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Yes you can actually because you can still get exp from crafting and gathering while killing mobs to harvest all of which gives you xp. You can avoid quests if you want but it will make things slightly slower.

Yes, but there's nothing for a crafting character to actually DO.  Crafting just goes on in the background, while the character does other things - the only other things to do being combat or quests.  Also, crafters can't specialize in anything, its more all or nothing, which makes very little for the crafter to have to even think about, in terms of character development, compared to combat characters which can have any number of different builds.

You can play a pure crafter, but why would anyone?  I wish they'd just flesh it out more, so that it'd actually make sense to play that way.  Give crafters something to do, and give them choices to make.  Otherwise, its just not the crafting oriented game people make it out to be, IMO. 

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Yes you can actually because you can still get exp from crafting and gathering while killing mobs to harvest all of which gives you xp. You can avoid quests if you want but it will make things slightly slower.

 

Yes, but there's nothing for a crafting character to actually DO.  Crafting just goes on in the background, while the character does other things - the only other things to do being combat or quests.  Also, crafters can't specialize in anything, its more all or nothing, which makes very little for the crafter to have to even think about, in terms of character development, compared to combat characters which can have any number of different builds.

 

You can play a pure crafter, but why would anyone?  I wish they'd just flesh it out more, so that it'd actually make sense to play that way.  Give crafters something to do, and give them choices to make.  Otherwise, its just not the crafting oriented game people make it out to be, IMO. 

 

Highlighted part is true, but it's very hard to level up any more than 2 or 3 crafting skills till you reach max.

What do you mean by something to do though? They can quest. They can support their guild (highly needed in large guilds). And they can socialize. I can't think of a game that really has any other aspects to crafting.

The only thing crafters can't DO is play the market, do to the poor economic model FE has. I think that's a major issue and I hope that the Devs have that on their chopping block for things to fix. Not just a better AH, that's needed too, but a whole new player based economic model really needs to be introduced. A few of us have high hopes that it will come with player housing, which I think is pretty high up on the Devs list of things to do.

But really, if you're just a pure crafter... you're going to have alot of extra AP. I haven't heard what the benefits to Charisma & Social Skills are.

Originally posted by TheHatter

 

You're right, even if you're in the EXACT same ship, you're still going to have better energy consumption. But, is that ever the case? Are you really going to turn down using much better weapons/mods because you don't want to? Because you want to make it fair? No, with your 40mil SP, you're going to be able to equip MUCH better weapons and mods in the exact same ship, than a 1 month old player could even hope for.

Fact of the matter is, you're not going to see this "even" combat in EVE. People are going to fly the best ships they can affordably fly (old players USUALLY can afford a bigger ship too).

Older players love to make the argument and it really has no grounds. My pilot has 25mil SP and I dare you to say that a newbie in his first Assault Frig could match me 1v1. I could take out him, and 4 of his buddies, because I'm not going to use the same crappy weapons and mods he uses, I'm going to fit what I put SP into. But even if I had the EXACT same ship and weapons and mods as him, I'm still going to be harvesting his goodies in less than a minute.

And don't even start about the 1v1 crap that I've heard before. Most combat in EVE is low number, usually 3 or 4 or less against 3 or 4 or less. Not to mention, I've seen an old player take out 4bil worth of ships in 10 seconds from a freaking HAC. I know, I was on the receiving end. Jumped in on us, wiped the floor with us in 10 seconds flat, then warped away laughing. More power to him, we were hunting him, but still.... SP means a better ship and you'll never be able to match a high SP combat player. You may be able to match a high SP player who's specced into mining, hauling, corp management, support and combat, but not one who's primarily gone combat. It's a useless futile argument, old EVE players love to give. I've even used it before, but in reality it just simply isn't the case.

You are completely wrong. Again i am afraid.

This converstaion started by you saying that in Eve you can never meet up with older players.

A few things from you above post that are incorrect are:

1)You mention energy consumption, at some point the new player will train all skills related to energy consumption, and ultimately be equal with the older player.

2) At some point the newer player will be able to equip all the mods the older player can.

3) At some point the newer player will be able to fly a HAC.

4) You mention why an older player would fly a lesser ship, sometimes the situation calls of this to be the case, not all old players are found flying the most powerful ships.

I have been playing Eve since 2003, i have not trained Capital ships and i have not trrained industry/mining etc, purely combat. And i have more or less run out of things to train, i can fly almost all non-cap ships, and there is no doubt that newer players will be able to fly, fit and cosume the exact same energy as i do.

Ultimately since there are a fintie amount of skills each with a fintie amount of levels(only 5 levels per skill)  and since you only need a finite number of skills to fly a specific ship, logic tells us that the old player will reach max skill-age for a particular ship quite soon, and a new player can easily, easily catch up.

A new player is NOT equal, but CAN catch up, on a ship class by ship class basis.

Sorry for the de-rail........................

to update yesterday i payed one dude to power level me a a bit and i am lvl 4 :D

my trade skills atm are
armorcraft 16
ballistics 38
cooking 13
geology 42
medicine 11
mutagenics 11
nature 44
scavenging 42
science 33
weaponry 18

well i got lvl 5 mostly because i go to Sector 2 and there plenty of things that require 45+ skill to gather

my tradeskills atm are to 42 and i cant skill them more because i have to lvl up :((((