On another note, it seems that the fastest levelling server in EU is Spatalos.

uk.aiononline.com/livestatus/server/

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by phup

I'm up to lvl 22 on one char and the thought of logging back in and grinding some more is making me feel a bit nauseated.  In fact, I'd rather watch Glee.  That's a pretty bad sign.

It took you how much? Three days? And you almost reached the middle level. Lets say that it takes you another two weeks to reach level 50, which is the maximum. Do you really call that a grind, when under the current speed you'll level in less than a month with the first character of a game you know little to nothing about?

Don't you think you're levelling a bit too fast?

Man.. grinding isn't only about how long it takes to reach the level cap. Grind is when quests are not enough to give u a level and u have to kill kill kill mobs in order to achieve it.  Grind it's still grind but u can sugar it up a bit. Take Failhammer for example. Scenarios did the work.

For those who played the Korean version, you must know that from lvl 1 to 25, everything goes smoothly, but there are like 3 gaps in the game, with grind heavy parts, which if I recall correctly are 30, 40, and 46-50...

So, if you think you're already grinding around lvl 20, imagine what it'd be like at lvl 45...

Originally posted by Tyvolus1

Originally posted by phup

I'm up to lvl 22 on one char and the thought of logging back in and grinding some more is making me feel a bit nauseated.  In fact, I'd rather watch Glee.  That's a pretty bad sign.

 

I havent met an MMO without a "grind" in it in some form or another -- and I started playing them in '99.  My advice to you, is if you dont like the "grind" then MMOs might not be your cup of tea.  Try a console or play some FPS, RTS, single player RPGs -- heck go outside and get some excercise -- but forget about MMOs -- its not your thing dude.

Listen to this guy,  

The main reason i play MMO's is because i enjoy others company,  raids, PvP, talking on vent & grinding.

 There is nothing per say wrong with liking grinding in mmorpg, I've known many that do.

Originally posted by phup

I've been playing them since Ultima Online came out although I don't know what year that was.  And in the sense that you have to "do things" and often very similar repetitive things to "advance", I agree that almost all of them had a grind.  I guess what makes them "fun" at least for me is the ability to disguise that grind and provide interesting things to do so that it's not so painfully obvious that you are grinding.  In that regard, Aion so far is an utter failure.  Maybe it gets less horrible once PVP starts.

Go play Darkfall for a week.  You will then see what a grind really is. 

My personal quest log at 22. I have 150 quests completed.

Ur doin it wrong if your grinding.

p://tinypic.com/r/2rmnt3n/4 

Originally posted by phup

I'm up to lvl 22 on one char and the thought of logging back in and grinding some more is making me feel a bit nauseated.  In fact, I'd rather watch Glee.  That's a pretty bad sign.

phup

Posts: 19

19 post all bashing Aion.... weird

Originally posted by Moregrim

My personal quest log at 22. I have 150 quests completed.

 

Ur doin it wrong if your grinding.

p://tinypic.com/r/2rmnt3n/4 

Can u tell me how many 20 level quests have u done?

It felt more like a grind then other games to me because it was simply boring.

I'm really always shocked at these grind discussions. Because if you are complaining about being forced ot grind 50 or maybe even 100 mobs. You simply assume its a time sink of some sort or a cheap way to add gameplay hours. But this is not the fact. These grinds are there because , uh i dont know ... maybe because you are playing an MMo. Maybe you should consider, if a quest ask you to kill 25 maybe you should, uh i don't know... group up.

These quest are essentially there to push players to help and group when facing impossible odds such as kill 1000 mobs (exageration, i hope).  So instead of complaing about the grind why don't you uh, ... find a friend or just ask in public " anyone want to help kill [blank]."

Now understanding the way NCsoft designs there games similar to FFXI you would realize these game are usually reliant on team play although NCsoft has developed the game to be soloable if you are inclined to do the extra grind. 

Originally posted by gamerstuff

I'm really always shocked at these grind discussions. Because if you are complaining about being forced ot grind 50 or maybe even 100 mobs. You simply assume its a time sink of some sort or a cheap way to add gameplay hours. But this is not the fact. These grinds are there because , uh i dont know ... maybe because you are playing an MMo. Maybe you should consider, if a quest ask you to kill 25 maybe you should, uh i don't know... group up.

These quest are essentially there to push players to help and group when facing impossible odds such as kill 1000 mobs (exageration, i hope).  So instead of complaing about the grind why don't you uh, ... find a friend or just ask in public " anyone want to help kill [blank]."

Now understanding the way NCsoft designs there games similar to FFXI you would realize these game are usually reliant on team play although NCsoft has developed the game to be soloable if you are inclined to do the extra grind. 

Mate.. u can avoid boring grinding.. Failhammer did something good. SCENARIOS. It' was for me the best way to escape from boring pve moments plus i had the chance the do some pvp which is something i like. Other thing is more elit dungeos with tones of xp. Let's be clear... Nsoft devs are smart and they know what they are doing. They got some really cool features from other games and they created a very good mmo. The only thing i can't stand is griding.. And grinding isn't there cause it's an MMO.. It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today ( and even harder tommorow) and the want to milk customers as fast as they can. Then it's l3 and GW2  and so on. 100K more subs for them for a couple of months = tones of money..

Why AoC failed? Easy leveling.. weak end game = cancel sub

Warhammer? Easy leveling, Buggy end game = cancel sub

Both of the games above failed cause of their end game. Bugs and other stuff come second. Nsoft knows it.. So.. they won't let u go up there easily and they have found multiple ways to keep u. Some of them are nice.. some (e.g grinding) is not

I've done about 10 quests total, and I'm currently level 17. I prefer grinding over questing simply because I've made well over 200k and counting and have the best in slot for my level. It takes me about 45-55 minutes/level as an assassin grinding mobs 2-3 levels higher than me. I personally like the grind, it seems to be as efficient as questing. A few of my friends are basically the same level as I am and they are only questing, however, I think the money making is a huge plus.

Originally posted by Helloween81

Mate.. u can avoid boring grinding.. Failhammer did something good. SCENARIOS. It' was for me the best way to escape from boring pve moments plus i had the chance the do some pvp which is something i like. Other thing is more elit dungeos with tones of xp. Let's be clear... Nsoft devs are smart and they know what they are doing. They got some really cool features from other games and they created a very good mmo. The only thing i can't stand is griding.. And grinding isn't there cause it's an MMO.. It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today ( and even harder tommorow) and the want to milk customers as fast as they can. Then it's l3 and GW2  and so on. 100K more subs for them for a couple of months = tones of money..

Why AoC failed? Easy leveling.. weak end game = cancel sub

Warhammer? Easy leveling, Buggy end game = cancel sub

Both of the games above failed cause of their end game. Bugs and other stuff come second. Nsoft knows it.. So.. they won't let u go up there easily and they have found multiple ways to keep u. Some of the are nice.. some (e.g grinding) is not

First things first, Scenarios is one of the reasons WAR failed.

" It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today"

"and the want to milk customers as fast as they can"

Then why add the "grind" you speak of and scare people away? They could have reduced the difficulty significantly, make the levels come faster, reward their players with amazing items with little effort... but wait Im describing WoW! Well thats the easy way to lure people.

Many MMO players today tend to forget the way to max lvl and believe that the game begins at lvl cap. Well its not like that. The way to the cap is also part of the game. Group with friends, run dungeons, do the quests available, go to abyss or rifting for PvP or even grind. There is no need to be 50 to do all that. Rifts open at lvl 20, Abyss at lvl 25 and the first instance around 28-30 if not less.

I rather enjoy the grind, get some good rush music (you know the kind you'd have on a tape recorder in an arcade) and grind away.

Originally posted by Helloween81

Originally posted by gamerstuff

I'm really always shocked at these grind discussions. Because if you are complaining about being forced ot grind 50 or maybe even 100 mobs. You simply assume its a time sink of some sort or a cheap way to add gameplay hours. But this is not the fact. These grinds are there because , uh i dont know ... maybe because you are playing an MMo. Maybe you should consider, if a quest ask you to kill 25 maybe you should, uh i don't know... group up.

These quest are essentially there to push players to help and group when facing impossible odds such as kill 1000 mobs (exageration, i hope).  So instead of complaing about the grind why don't you uh, ... find a friend or just ask in public " anyone want to help kill [blank]."

Now understanding the way NCsoft designs there games similar to FFXI you would realize these game are usually reliant on team play although NCsoft has developed the game to be soloable if you are inclined to do the extra grind. 

 

Mate.. u can avoid boring grinding.. Failhammer did something good. SCENARIOS. It' was for me the best way to escape from boring pve moments plus i had the chance the do some pvp which is something i like. Other thing is more elit dungeos with tones of xp. Let's be clear... Nsoft devs are smart and they know what they are doing. They got some really cool features from other games and they created a very good mmo. The only thing i can't stand is griding.. And grinding isn't there cause it's an MMO.. It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today ( and even harder tommorow) and the want to milk customers as fast as they can. Then it's l3 and GW2  and so on. 100K more subs for them for a couple of months = tones of money..

Why AoC failed? Easy leveling.. weak end game = cancel sub

Warhammer? Easy leveling, Buggy end game = cancel sub

Both of the games above failed cause of their end game. Bugs and other stuff come second. Nsoft knows it.. So.. they won't let u go up there easily and they have found multiple ways to keep u. Some of them are nice.. some (e.g grinding) is not

I can definitely agree with the majority of what you stated. Every company probably does it in the game to a keep you in game longer. However, warhammer did something more than scenarios which was Public Quests (i believe is the only significant idea WAR has brought to mmo's). Same idea as what you find in other grind quest but with a nice glossy finish. The whole idea was to get players to play together which i believed worked as long as there were people. Its basically the grind kill 100 mobs with other players to get to the next objective to kill a boss and get a reward. But if you remember the Public quests were in no way made to be soloed although many have attempted because of lack of player population. Regardless when done correctly with a group or other players it was fun. And thats all that matters is if the grinding is entertaining and fun. And usually that fun is obtained by simply playing cooperatively.
 

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Helloween81

Mate.. u can avoid boring grinding.. Failhammer did something good. SCENARIOS. It' was for me the best way to escape from boring pve moments plus i had the chance the do some pvp which is something i like. Other thing is more elit dungeos with tones of xp. Let's be clear... Nsoft devs are smart and they know what they are doing. They got some really cool features from other games and they created a very good mmo. The only thing i can't stand is griding.. And grinding isn't there cause it's an MMO.. It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today ( and even harder tommorow) and the want to milk customers as fast as they can. Then it's l3 and GW2  and so on. 100K more subs for them for a couple of months = tones of money..

Why AoC failed? Easy leveling.. weak end game = cancel sub

Warhammer? Easy leveling, Buggy end game = cancel sub

Both of the games above failed cause of their end game. Bugs and other stuff come second. Nsoft knows it.. So.. they won't let u go up there easily and they have found multiple ways to keep u. Some of the are nice.. some (e.g grinding) is not

 

First things first, Scenarios is one of the reasons WAR failed.

"Nsoft devs are smart and they know what they are doing"

" It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today"

You are saying that one of the biggest MMO companies is ignorant about competition.

"and the want to milk customers as fast as they can"

Then why add the "grind" you speak of and scare people out? They could have reduced the difficulty significantly, make the levels come faster, reward your players with amazing items with little effort... but wait Im describing WoW! Well thats the easy way to lure people.

Many MMO players today tend to forget the way to max lvl and believe that the game begins at lvl cap. Well its not like that. The way to the cap is also part of the game. Group with friends, run dungeons, do the quests available, go to abyss or rifting for PvP or even grind. There is no need to be 50 to do all that. Rifts open at lvl 20, Abyss at lvl 25 and the first instance around 28-30 if not less.

I can't hear more about MMO=grinding. Age of Conan has ZERO grinding nowdays and it's out a year and so.. Asian version of Aion is almost out 1 year as well. You can avoid grinding. Rift is worse than the rvr War system. U fight for a few secs and then people die and respawn sth like 1000 miles from the battle ground.. Oh let me use my fast mount.. Ops.. No mount.. Then my wings.. Ops.. I can't use my wings everywhere.  I don't have any problem with leveling but leveing with grind and leveling with quests is a different thing. With quests you are moving to new places, locations and so on. It's not like HEY ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? grind grind grind.. Hmm xp is no good... ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? 

I like Aion. Don't take me wrong. But it's grinding is the infamous korean grinding. I have played Lotro, Conan and Warhammer from the latest mmo's and i can tell u while i REALLY like most of the things in AION, but grinding .. I simply can't stand the grinding and it's there. Denying it can't change it. People have seen it.. It's not a U.F.O in the sky. Some people who came from L2 and Warcraft are having tones of fun. I simple can't. Can u say to me.. MMO is not your cup of tea? Nah.. With 4 80lev chars in AoC and 3 40 in Warhammer. There is another way and i ve seen it.

Originally posted by Elesthor

 

First things first, Scenarios is one of the reasons WAR failed.

" It's there because they know how competitve MMO world is today"

"and the want to milk customers as fast as they can"

Then why add the "grind" you speak of and scare people away? They could have reduced the difficulty significantly, make the levels come faster, reward their players with amazing items with little effort... but wait Im describing WoW! Well thats the easy way to lure people.

Many MMO players today tend to forget the way to max lvl and believe that the game begins at lvl cap. Well its not like that. The way to the cap is also part of the game. Group with friends, run dungeons, do the quests available, go to abyss or rifting for PvP or even grind. There is no need to be 50 to do all that. Rifts open at lvl 20, Abyss at lvl 25 and the first instance around 28-30 if not less.

Agreed
 

Originally posted by Helloween81

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Helloween81

 

 

 

I can't hear more about MMO=grinding. Age of Conan has ZERO grinding nowdays and it's out a year and so.. Asian version of Aion is almost out 1 year as well. You can avoid grinding. Rift is worst than the rvr War system. U fight for a few secs and then people die and respawn sth like 1000 miles from the battle ground.. Oh let me use my fast mount.. Ops.. No mount.. Then my wings.. Ops.. I can't use my wings everywhere.  I don't have any problem with leveling but leveing with grind and leveling with quests is a different thing. With quests you are moving to new places, locations and so on. It's not like HEY ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? grind grind grind.. Hmm xp is no good... ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? 

I like Aion. Don't take me wrong. But it's grinding is KOREAN grinding. I have played Lotro, Conan and Warhammer from the latest mmo's and i can tell u while i REALLY love everything else about AION .. I simply can't stand the grinding and it's there. Denying it can't change it. People have seen it.. It's not a U.F.O in the sky

Well you had to bring AoC and Lotro into this. I can't say anything because those are my two favorite mmo's and for the reasons you listed. so... you have checkmated me good sir. AoC and lotro story, lore, level design and immersive play casual pickup and get somewhere in just an hour of play makes those mmo's gold. But also AoC is extremely solo friendly.
 

Originally posted by Helloween81

I can't hear more about MMO=grinding. Age of Conan has ZERO grinding nowdays and it's out a year and so.. Asian version of Aion is almost out 1 year as well. You can avoid grinding. Rift is worst than the rvr War system. U fight for a few secs and then people die and respawn sth like 1000 miles from the battle ground.. Oh let me use my fast mount.. Ops.. No mount.. Then my wings.. Ops.. I can't use my wings everywhere.  I don't have any problem with leveling but leveing with grind and leveling with quests is a different thing. With quests you are moving to new places, locations and so on. It's not like HEY ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? grind grind grind.. Hmm xp is no good... ANY GOOD GRINDING SPOT? 

I like Aion. Don't take me wrong. But it's grinding is KOREAN grinding. I have played Lotro, Conan and Warhammer from the latest mmo's and i can tell u while i REALLY love everything else about AION .. I simply can't stand the grinding and it's there. Denying it can't change it. People have seen it.. It's not a U.F.O in the sky

" Asian version of Aion is almost out 1 year as well"

And this way the end game is well tested and not hidden like in WAR betas lets say.

"Rift is worst than the rvr War system. U fight for a few secs and then people die and respawn sth like 1000 miles from the battle ground.. Oh let me use my fast mount.. Ops.. No mount.."

And at that point you made clear you are nothing but a troll!

Rifting is great like this because you have to stay alive if you dont want to be kicked out. Considering that in Aion the battles take longer than WoW or WAR it offers the element of danger and makes venturing to enemy land more exciting. So try harder to stay alive and not just die and come back a million times. Additionally there are the Kisks that you can set in a place and rez there but make sure you defend it well cause your enemies can destroy it.

" I don't have any problem with leveling but leveing with grind and leveling with quests is a different thing."

" With quests you are moving to new places, locations and so on."

First of all there are quests in Aion to make you move on even on higher levels. I dont know if the Q exp will be enough to get you to the next level but you will advance throuhg the game areas. But even without quests, why cant you explore and change places every 30mins without having an NPC telling you to do so?

"But it's grinding is KOREAN grinding."

Well considering that people are able to reach lvl 50 with 2 months of casual gaming I can say thet no its not your typican Korean Grinder.