So, when is the funeral of War really?

We all know by now about the server merges from 60ish down to 6 something, Marc Jacobs been fired, Paul Barnett is wanted dead or alive by many players..., Jeff Hickman himself explains/admits that there are some major flaws with the game (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/mythic-shares-biggest-mistakes-with-war) and the disasterous loss of subs since the launch...

When do you think the final day will arrive, the ultimate downfall.... THE FUNERAL?

As much as I love(d) WAR (it's still pretty fun, there's an issue here and there though. I cancelled my sub), I only think Mythic will give a few more years, I don't see it as a FTP game nor do I think Mythic WON'T drop it.

If DAOC can hang on this long, I'm sure WAR will be around a good long time.  The money has already been spent.  All they have to do now is maintain a live team and their servers.  Remember, most MMORPGs fail because they fail to launch.  And besides, isn't WAR on the move to the Far East with changes there reaching back to affect the EU/NA servers, especially pertaining to the economy?

Originally posted by Shannia

If DAOC can hang on this long, I'm sure WAR will be around a good long time.  The money has already been spent.  All they have to do now is maintain a live team and their servers.  Remember, most MMORPGs fail because they fail to launch.  And besides, isn't WAR on the move to the Far East with changes there reaching back to affect the EU/NA servers, especially pertaining to the economy?

 

-DAOC was published and owned by Mythic.

-WAR is published by EA, Mythic is no longer, Mythic's assets are owned by Bioware.

-They already shutdown a couple Korean servers within 60 days of release.

Read it up, EU, NA and Asians don't like this game, plain and simple. For a heavy PvP game the most important things are class and population balance, which WAR fail miserably in both departments.

 I remember being very excited for this game. I myself loved it early on but in the end it just seemed doomed to fail. I never thought though it would get AXED but, shit happens. 

IF they decide to shut it down (to the glee of some of you who hate our MMORPG genre) and damage the viability of the subscription based model even more to potential investors...but you all seem to want that to happen. Maybe you are all paid to post this junk by some F2P company. It's all the rage these days.

We should get announcement maybe 60 days prior to the start of Q1 2010.

If not, some of you will need to find another game to go pray for closure...Aion is launching...maybe you can start fresh over there...it has far more weaknesses then WAR, that should keep you entertained for years to come.

very true words.

Ever thought about the fact that the great tragical downfalls only happen to sub-based games? If WoW was not a P2P success story, where would P2P be now?

Already millions and millions of 'players', mostly kids, populate the F2P games that spread like cancer.

It's absolutely within reasonable possibilities that the future of the whole friggin genre lies in low-educated teens paying in online shops playing 24/7; and the now-college nerd minority like ourselves is the dying species, along with "serious" P2P projects.

M

Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something.

As long as there are people playing, even if it's only one server, I'll keep playing. I like the low cost of entry for PvP. Much like Planetside, you don't need to be high level with maxed out gear to PvP. Sure the game is not as deep as say DAoC, it's more of a beer and pretzel game, but that's fine with me. I just want to get in and play for a couple hours and have fun. Spending months to a year just to be able to get to the end game isn't fun in my eyes. I put up with it in DAoC, but don't really have the patience for it with Aion.

So all of you Aion fans have fun with your new game, but can you all just move along already?

I agree, they couldn't live up to the hype, but the game is far from being a POS.

I think the biggest downside is: It's only fun on a populated server. They just should have started with less servers and much more open-RvR incentive all along.

M

Originally posted by Brixon

Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something.

As long as there are people playing, even if it's only one server, I'll keep playing. I like the low cost of entry for PvP. Much like Planetside, you don't need to be high level with maxed out gear to PvP. Sure the game is not as deep as say DAoC, it's more of a beer and pretzel game, but that's fine with me. I just want to get in and play for a couple hours and have fun. Spending months to a year just to be able to get to the end game isn't fun in my eyes. I put up with it in DAoC, but don't really have the patience for it with Aion.

So all of you Aion fans have fun with your new game, but can you all just move along already?

Sorry, but this game deserves to be shut down.  Many players are very upset with how Mythic has treated the playerbase and actually took steps that sometimes made you wonder if they were trying to make the game fail.  People put in time hoping to see the potential emerge and constantly pointing out key flaws to Mythic.  In response, they were ignored and sometimes censored.

Warhammer, as a concept is a good game & provides some great fun.  But Mythic is epic fail.  This game will either be dead or on life support.  Hopefully, someone else will take the lessons and make a new RvR MMO that fits the standards.

I would play WAR if it was F2p with microtransactions

honestly WAR isn't a bad game just I wouldnt pay to play it because after 1 month of new content you are bored... so you leave for 3-4 months and then come back for 1 month...that's how it works with this game

The F2P model is crap. Period. Why? It draws in kids and casual-for-1-month players. It kills guilds with real bonds and a sense of accomplishment.

WAR is, as it is, already suffering from a 'come in and roll with us, no obligations' mentality. F2P would only make it much, much worse...

M

Originally posted by Meridion

The F2P model is crap. Period. Why? It draws in kids and casual-for-1-month players. It kills guilds with real bonds and a sense of accomplishment.

WAR is, as it is, already suffering from a 'come in and roll with us, no obligations' mentality. F2P would only make it much, much worse...

M

Post in a darker colour, I can still read what you have written.

---

Originally posted by Brixon
Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something.

---

Not all the reasons for me, but some that I can easily think of without having to ask "Why do people want to see a game closed down?" that I've read on plenty of sites:

1. WAR had way too much hype and some people feel "cheated" or ripped off that they spent $50 for the game and held on for a few months listening to "We are going to fix it all, just wait.. WAGGGGH!" Publicity is good and you want to push your game. But you don't want to do it as irresponsibly as Jacobs and Barnett did without a conscience just to pull in subs.

2. The arrogance and bravado of the head of the company, the main pitchman and the devs who seemingly were talking out of their asses about how "awesome" this game would be. They even took shots at WOW and suggested they were going to give them a run for their money. When people talk like that and fail, people think they deserve EVERY bit of the fail. Statements like "We have the most experience in the business and if a company like ours can't do this right, then no one can" or similar just don't sit well with players after the fact.

3. The typical arrogant, know-it-all WAR fanboi. Now, let's differentiate from the WAR tabletop enthusiast who have played WAR titles for years before anyone else even heard of a "Warhammer". Those are the true loyalists who by and large have little to do with gaming and have grown up on the novels and figurines, but wanted to try the game out based on the IP. Most of those hated this game and defend very little of it from what I've seen. They don't like how Mythic made all the sides "cozy", Order/Destruction aren't friends to them and the lore isn't how they'd like it.

The arrogant WAR fanbois are the typical PvP heads that ran around badmouthing everyone else's game and how crappy the PvP was in them, or how they are for kids/babies/carebears. Whether that is true or not, at the same time they were bragging on how great THEIR WAR PvP was going to be, how hardcore, how raw, how totally awesome and whatever else you can describe in a corny, culty way. They had no humility and were invading othe forums like WOW boards with "kiddie PvP" and all the jeers and laughing it up about WOW's "impending doom" and demise at the hands of WAGGGH!

They taunted the Darkfall people, Spellborn people, LOTRO people, AION people, Guild WARS people, the.. you name-it people. This game was going to be the king because Mythic was making it and Mythic just rocks!. Blah, blah, and blah. Again, people like it when braggarts fail.

4. Crap reviews that people got misled on sites like this one. People read reviews about games and put their money down after reading "pro" reviews. If you look at the reviews for WAR since launch, you'd think it was WOW x 2 or something. Every review you read in the past was crowning this game as something special and it was going to be the "new thing". There was a general feeling of collusion about how this game was pushed by industry types who should have been more of a watchdog and less of a cheerleader. Even as late as a month of two ago, apologist "reviewers" still put this game on some really high footings, almost as if they were reviewing a game that just launched instead of the game they were actually playing. Most of these people only played in T1/T2 and gave a thumbs up on the game as a whole based on that. Shoddy reporting, reviewing or opinion giving makes people angry.

5. Players being told by Mythic and the fanbois "You're doing it wrong" when they complained about the rampant problems. No one wants to feel like they are crazy when they are looking at something plain as day and being told it's something else. It's like that Eddie Murphy joke where his girl caught him cheating and he said "Wasn't me." She said "I SAW you!" and he kept saing "Wasn't me.. who you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

This game was BAD in many ways from launch. Lag, crashes, exp, renoun, gear, PvE, crafting... so much was plain crappy. Yet, people were constantly being told "Don't play it like WoW, Get a new rig, L2P, the classes are not OP, Order is not OP, there is no cast lag.. we fixed it, there is no cheating mods, etc, etc, etc." This made many people made as they had played other MMOs before and new there was something wrong with this game and is was deep. The engine was a piece of horse turd and Mythic knew it, the cities and endgame didn't work and Mythic knew it. The fanbois knew it but they kept lying and trolling legitimate complaints on this board and any other board. Just mentioning "Someone is using hack programs" on plenty of WAR fan sites was grounds for banning.

There's other reasons (people just like to watch things crash and go boom, human nature) that I won't get into, but the above was certainly true and plenty people don't shed any tears about this game going kaput for some of those reasons. It has nothing to do with girlfriends.

It's just lies. People don't like liars. I actually think when this game crashes it will be good for the industry. Sure it won't be good for the Mythic employees, but overall the industry will slowly realize they can't keep pushing crap out the door and having people support it no matter what. They'll have to come better prepared at launch and stop relying on fanbois who tell them in beta "Great game Mark!" while ignoring the real MMO players who say this part is a turd, fix it.

Look at Champions Online. They aren't ready either and they may suffer the same fate because they have a lot of crap just not ready, and its a fun game to play. Mail, character UI names, not enough quests past 30, balancing not really right, healing out of whack. They have plenty of time to fix things, but games are going to have to be more like AION in the future where they have few bugs at launch or people won't wait around forever. It's still one year out and WAR has it's own forums in BETA when they should have had them at launch. You don't think of stuff like that afterwards.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Brixon
Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something.

---

 

Not all the reasons for me, but some that I can easily think of without having to ask "Why do people want to see a game closed down?" that I've read on plenty of sites:

 

1. WAR had way too much hype and some people feel "cheated" or ripped off that they spent $50 for the game and held on for a few months listening to "We are going to fix it all, just wait.. WAGGGGH!" Publicity is good and you want to push your game. But you don't want to do it as irresponsibly as Jacobs and Barnett did without a conscience just to pull in subs.

 

 

2. The arrogance and bravado of the head of the company, the main pitchman and the devs who seemingly were talking out of their asses about how "awesome" this game would be. They even took shots at WOW and suggested they were going to give them a run for their money. When people talk like that and fail, people think they deserve EVERY bit of the fail. Statements like "We have the most experience in the business and if a company like ours can't do this right, then no one can" or similar just don't sit well with players after the fact.

 

3. The typical arrogant, know-it-all WAR fanboi. Now, let's differentiate from the WAR tabletop enthusiast who have played WAR titles for years before anyone else even heard of a "Warhammer". Those are the true loyalists who by and large have little to do with gaming and have grown up on the novels and figurines, but wanted to try the game out based on the IP. Most of those hated this game and defend very little of it from what I've seen. They don't like how Mythic made all the sides "cozy", Order/Destruction aren't friends to them and the lore isn't how they'd like it.

 

The arrogant WAR fanbois are the typical PvP heads that ran around badmouthing everyone else's game and how crappy the PvP was in them, or how they are for kids/babies/carebears. Whether that is true or not, at the same time they were bragging on how great THEIR WAR PvP was going to be, how hardcore, how raw, how totally awesome and whatever else you can describe in a corny, culty way. They had no humility and were invading othe forums like WOW boards with "kiddie PvP" and all the jeers and laughing it up about WOW's "impending doom" and demise at the hands of WAGGGH!

They taunted the Darkfall people, Spellborn people, LOTRO people, AION people, Guild WARS people, the.. you name-it people. This game was going to be the king because Mythic was making it and Mythic just rocks!. Blah, blah, and blah. Again, people like it when braggarts fail.

 

 

4. Crap reviews that people got misled on sites like this one. People read reviews about games and put their money down after reading "pro" reviews. If you look at the reviews for WAR since launch, you'd think it was WOW x 2 or something. Every review you read in the past was crowning this game as something special and it was going to be the "new thing". There was a general feeling of collusion about how this game was pushed by industry types who should have been more of a watchdog and less of a cheerleader. Even as late as a month of two ago, apologist "reviewers" still put this game on some really high footings, almost as if they were reviewing a game that just launched instead of the game they were actually playing. Most of these people only played in T1/T2 and gave a thumbs up on the game as a whole based on that. Shoddy reporting, reviewing or opinion giving makes people angry.

 

 

5. Players being told by Mythic and the fanbois "You're doing it wrong" when they complained about the rampant problems. No one wants to feel like they are crazy when they are looking at something plain as day and being told it's something else. It's like that Eddie Murphy joke where his girl caught him cheating and he said "Wasn't me." She said "I SAW you!" and he kept saing "Wasn't me.. who you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

 

This game was BAD in many ways from launch. Lag, crashes, exp, renoun, gear, PvE, crafting... so much was plain crappy. Yet, people were constantly being told "Don't play it like WoW, Get a new rig, L2P, the classes are not OP, Order is not OP, there is no cast lag.. we fixed it, there is no cheating mods, etc, etc, etc." This made many people made as they had played other MMOs before and new there was something wrong with this game and is was deep. The engine was a piece of horse turd and Mythic knew it, the cities and endgame didn't work and Mythic knew it. The fanbois knew it but they kept lying and trolling legitimate complaints on this board and any other board. Just mentioning "Someone is using hack programs" on plenty of WAR fan sites was grounds for banning.

 

 

There's other reasons (people just like to watch things crash and go boom, human nature) that I won't get into, but the above was certainly true and plenty people don't shed any tears about this game going kaput for some of those reasons. It has nothing to do with girlfriends.

 

It's just lies. People don't like liars. I actually think when this game crashes it will be good for the industry. Sure it won't be good for the Mythic employees, but overall the industry will slowly realize they can't keep pushing crap out the door and having people support it no matter what. They'll have to come better prepared at launch and stop relying on fanbois who tell them in beta "Great game Mark!" while ignoring the real MMO players who say this part is a turd, fix it.

 

Look at Champions Online. They aren't ready either and they may suffer the same fate because they have a lot of crap just not ready, and its a fun game to play. Mail, character UI names, not enough quests past 30, balancing not really right, healing out of whack. They have plenty of time to fix things, but games are going to have to be more like AION in the future where they have few bugs at launch or people won't wait around forever. It's still one year out and WAR has it's own forums in BETA when they should have had them at launch. You don't think of stuff like that afterwards.

I'll give ya 5/5 for this, pretty much yep.

Pretty much:" Crap reviews that people got misled on sites like this one.", anyone remember how AoC got great reviews/previews here at launch? I mean the game is not garbage neither is WAR, but the reviews were so biased. I even remember one reviewer on mmorpg.com telling everyone about light source shading in WoW, how can you say that and not laugh?

Well like I said some of you are too emotionally involved. It's just a game. When you have a bad relationship, do you want the other person to die? If you do then you have issues. Just let it go and move on.

If the game contiunes to provide fun for some people then why should they have to suffer because it wasn't what you wanted? I hate SOE for what they did to SWG. Now on some level I would like to see it shut down as a lesson to this business, but if some people still enjoy it, then let them have their fun. It doesn't effect me if they want to play a game that is a hollow shell of what it was.

PS: Are you really suprised that Mythic screwed up the game, look what they did to DAoC?

Originally posted by Torak

Aion is launching...maybe you can start fresh over there...it has far more weaknesses then WAR, that should keep you entertained for years to come.

 

Can you explain how AION has more weaknesses than War?

After I experienced the middle and end game of both I really have the opposite opinion.

AION has more content, after the lower levels AION is more "open", harder and has a bigger sense of progression than WAR, AION classes are more balanced with more unique skills and AION engine has far better performance visual quality, audio quality and better animations.

Sure, maybe you prefer WAR but technically AION is a superior product/game and has more popular appeal and longevity than WAR.( we just need to compare how AION is performing worldwide and how WAR performed.)

...

It has many years left, I wouldn't count on a funeral anytime soon.  I don't exactly like the game, I had fun for a couple of months, but overall felt ripped off that I was foolish enough to pre-order the CE.  There are still a lot of fun concepts in WAR and a good following left.  I'm sure with the release of SWTOR, everyone will take a major hit, but a lot of these people will play two or more MMOs.  I know, it's nuts.  Think of how long some of these MMOs last, even though they seem like wastelands.  Apparently it doesn't take much to keep a pulse in some of these MMOs. 

Make it f2p with a store, and not a lol buy this to get to level 10/20/30/40 and buy this for RR...

As much as im very disappointed with the current statement release by Jeff Hickman, but i still think they are now going in the right directions.

herald.warhammeronline.com/wa...cle.war

herald.warhammeronline.com/wa...cle.war

From the above producer's letter, i believe apart from the p.r crap, the real developers knows the main problem and is trying their best to rectified. So i don't think this game will die anytime soon, maybe in 2 to 3 years if dont improve current situations.

Only problem they are facing now is time. Hopefully the subs will will sustain in a profit manner that allow the devs to solve most of the problem. When its done i will definitely goes back...

I just get the feeling that if we all carry on this way no one will ever build a decent MMO (other than the Elephant over there in the corner).

WAR has had issues, few classes that got dropped, few that really didn't work, problems with end game, rather a lot of lag (server side) at with big fights/AOE spells. However, over the year a lot of this has been resolved, and I don't think further work before launch would have improved it (it needed players to really thrash it and break it). As for the slow gameplay and bug complaints. I've had about 5 crashes to desktop in a year, the odd disconnect, and two server/zone crashes. A decent PC and internet connection solves alot of problems.

Could it be better? Of course it could. Does it have long term appeal? Well it held my and missus attention more than either WoW or LoTR, but less so than DAoC. However, a few more classes/races, a bit of PvE/dungeons that is fun and doable - and would say the average MMO player would be well pleased.

Ultimately, we all have vestige interest in MMOs being successful, otherwise they will not make any more. Therefore our criticism should be balance, fair, and constructive. And we need to bear in mind that a good MMO grows and develops and that to expect a nwe AAA title with everthing that an established one has is a dream that will not be a commerical or practical reality.

But that won't stop the "hater" posting their rants, unfortunately :(

Originally posted by arctarus

As much as im very disappointed with the current statement release by Jeff Hickman, but i still think they are now going in the right directions.

herald.warhammeronline.com/wa...cle.war

herald.warhammeronline.com/wa...cle.war

 

From the above producer's letter, i believe apart from the p.r crap, the real developers knows the main problem and is trying their best to rectified. So i don't think this game will die anytime soon, maybe in 2 to 3 years if dont improve current situations.

Only problem they are facing now is time. Hopefully the subs will will sustain in a profit manner that allow the devs to solve most of the problem. When its done i will definitely goes back...

How are they going in the right direction?  They insist that the problem is weak PvE.  Pure idiocy.  People liked Warhammer cause it was so PvP & RvR focused.  When players & ex-players tried to comment that this is plain delusional, they got banned from forums.

The game is finished.  Sub numbers are definitely below 100k right now as Aion is launching.  The biggest guilds on Dark Crag, my old server and possibly the most populated server, are gone.  These guys ran the RvR.

I think the only reason Warhammer will even stay alive much longer is if EA/Bioware want to retain the IP and maybe do something in the future.

Originally posted by noblot

WAR has had issues, few classes that got dropped, few that really didn't work, problems with end game, rather a lot of lag (server side) at with big fights/AOE spells. However, over the year a lot of this has been resolved,

Plain wrong.  Endgame is still broken and was made even worse with LoTD.  The endless lag from the crappy code did get better but never enough.  The game is still unbalanced.  Mythic originally claim that it would have minimal CC, instead it was the most CC in any MMO players have ever seen.  Instead of toning it down they eventually added trinkets to try to offset it.  AoE was toned down for everyone, leaving Bright Wizards the OP class they always were.

It took Mythic almost a year to even start correcting the key issues.  The game is far from fixed.  And it's just too late.

Originally posted by Shannia

If DAOC can hang on this long, I'm sure WAR will be around a good long time.  The money has already been spent.  All they have to do now is maintain a live team and their servers.  Remember, most MMORPGs fail because they fail to launch.  And besides, isn't WAR on the move to the Far East with changes there reaching back to affect the EU/NA servers, especially pertaining to the economy?

 

DAOC had a fairly strong start and a decent retention rate of players.   I think mark jacobs said it was in the high 70% retention of players. 

Warhammer has not hit bottom yet, despite an amazing start.  There is still a steady decline and servers continue to merge.  Even in the new areas of the world as they release the game, it is closing servers and failing to fill even a small amount.

I think warhammer is on a course to closure.  This is not my personal wish and I have no hatred for the game, but the direction it is traveling and the company that owns Mythic (EA) suggests to me, that it doesn't have long to go.  I don't think this game can survive on so few servers. 

Warhammer has not even encounted the release of another major mmo to see what affects it will have on the games population.  We will only know the results of that over the next few months, but I would not be surprised to see server mergers increased in the short future.

My opinion is that EA will have to balance how little they let the game survive on versus the huge PR black eye they will take for the epic level of failure that game looks to be heading towards.  

Originally posted by noblot

I just get the feeling that if we all carry on this way no one will ever build a decent MMO (other than the Elephant over there in the corner).

WAR has had issues, few classes that got dropped, few that really didn't work, problems with end game, rather a lot of lag (server side) at with big fights/AOE spells. However, over the year a lot of this has been resolved, and I don't think further work before launch would have improved it (it needed players to really thrash it and break it). As for the slow gameplay and bug complaints. I've had about 5 crashes to desktop in a year, the odd disconnect, and two server/zone crashes. A decent PC and internet connection solves alot of problems.

Could it be better? Of course it could. Does it have long term appeal? Well it held my and missus attention more than either WoW or LoTR, but less so than DAoC. However, a few more classes/races, a bit of PvE/dungeons that is fun and doable - and would say the average MMO player would be well pleased.

Ultimately, we all have vestige interest in MMOs being successful, otherwise they will not make any more. Therefore our criticism should be balance, fair, and constructive. And we need to bear in mind that a good MMO grows and develops and that to expect a nwe AAA title with everthing that an established one has is a dream that will not be a commerical or practical reality.

But that won't stop the "hater" posting their rants, unfortunately :(

I hope that everyone that visits this forum reads this post.  Very well done, and I totally agree.  The problem is that with so many mmos, and more coming, players have a short attention span and if things are not polished or done to their satisfaction at or near launch, they may move onto another new one, or fall back to and old one. 

I admit to being one of these players, but games like Warhammer Online, which I love (although no longer play), will be watched over time, and tried again on and off to gauge the changes, community, etc. and if I am having fun, I subscribe. 

There has been only one mmo that has held my attention to it for years straight, and I don't credit the game, I simply believe that there were few other options at the time (the game was the original Everquest)