Originally posted by tman5

I am not sure what the complaint is.  No former player - especially one on this thread - is going to go back to SWG.  No body.  No how.  If you were going to return at any time, you would have an active account now.  "I don't want to resub now, I'm waiting for . . ."  What?   What could you possibly be waiting for?  The game is now what it will be forever.

Complaints getting stuck with a $50 fee after the FCTS runs out is an empty argument.  SOE knows they now have all they players they are ever going to have for the game and it is those players targeted for the transfer.  Not former players, because they ain't coming.  Ever.  Any former player making noise they might want to come back later and it is unfair they should pay is doing just that - making noise.

You will not come back., either now nor anytime after October 15th.  You will not.

the complaint is that $OE is forcing players to move off servers that wouldn't have died if pre-cu swg was still around. and if you don't move you toon is deleted.

also they are demanding that if we do not want to lose what is left of all of our hard work that they stole from us with the nge then we have to pay them $15 dollars. that is wrong and in my eyes illegal and i will be contacting the better business bureau about this.

Let me get this straight... They shut your server down? Completely? Didn't it like maybe merge with another server? You can't even log in and "look" at your character anymore cause that particular server no longer exists? And in order to move said character to another server they are charging you money to do so? 50 bucks??? That just don't sound right. I have played pretty much all SOE games and I have never heard of them doing anything like that to people. SOE may be idiots for not realizing the potential of Vanguard: Saga of Heros but charging 50 bucks to move your char off a no longer existing server is just unacceptable. I'd be on the phone annoying the hell out of someone for doing so!

i'm pretty sure that when the server does close down that you get a free transfer anyway.  That happened to my characters on WAR.  I tried to log into them on a server that closed weeks ago and was sent to the pick a server screen instead.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik

 

They're not players, they're ex-players.  I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub.  THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off.  Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago).  If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.

I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them.  My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you ;) )

You completely overlook the possibility that those "ex-players" may not have wanted to move.  They might have enjoyed subscribing to the game on the server they chose with the people they knew.  The free character transfer doesn't mean people were forced to move.  It doesn't mean people should have had clairvoyance enough to know soe would close the servers and then charge fees if they missed the last window.  You are using 20/20 hindsight to blame players for something they did not know and may not have even been something they were interested in.  

Not to mention soe said repeatedly during those free transfers, they had no plans to close servers. 

I don't blame anyone for staying that a) liked their community and b) believed soe had no plans to merge servers.  If players had any indication this was the route soe was planning then yes, it would be a "stupid tax", but that isn't how things happened.  Nice to see the SWG userbase blaming the players once again.

 

This is not how mergers were handled in any of their other games.  I have not logged onto one of my EQ accounts for years.  If I log on right now, I can play my character without paying a $50 fee even though my old server was closed down.  Why? because all the characters were moved when my old server was closed.  What justifies a $50 fee post mergers?  It isn't like everyone who has ever left knows about this.   

The FCTS was a terrible way to handle server megers, just like it was in warhammer.  Soe needed to take charge and merge servers just like they have in every other game instead of let players make paniced decisions that crowded everyone onto one server and effectively ruined the desired outcome of server mergers.  I find it laughable how soe stands proud and calls the fcts an overwhelming success.  I'm sure the players on Bria for example don't feel that way.

 

Not that much of this matters.  Former players are not coming back to this game anyhow.  Some people might subscribe to archive their memories on a new server, but thats about it.  Another vet trial would just result in people moving their characters to warehouse them on the new servers. 

It doesn't take a clairvoyant to realise that they're going to shutdown those transfer from servers after they opened the stock gates and let everyone out for free.  No,SOE probably shouldn't have said they had "no plans" to shut them down but still, I do hope that the majority of people do have some self thought and could figure out for themselves that such an event is likely to happen sooner rather than later. 

For those that deliberately chose not to transfer because of community, I have to ask, what community?  There's very few left on those servers and while I can understand a small community can be more appealing to some, there are transfer-to servers that aren't exactly massive in populations (such as Gorath) that would likely give the same atmosphere.

I still don't have any sympathy.

Originally posted by Obraik

It doesn't take a clairvoyant to realise that they're going to shutdown those transfer from servers after they opened the stock gates and let everyone out for free.  No,SOE probably shouldn't have said they had "no plans" to shut them down but still, I do hope that the majority of people do have some self thought and could figure out for themselves that such an event is likely to happen sooner rather than later. 

For those that deliberately chose not to transfer because of community, I have to ask, what community?  There's very few left on those servers and while I can understand a small community can be more appealing to some, there are transfer-to servers that aren't exactly massive in populations (such as Gorath) that would likely give the same atmosphere.

I still don't have any sympathy.

So what you're saying is that regardless of what is being said officially at SoE the signs were clearly there and people should have seen this coming?

http://www.massively.com/2008/10/27/soe-responds-to-the-announcement-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

John Smedley: "At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that."
 

You do understand that many people are telling others like yourself that this is coming as well and that you should see the signs too. Perhaps a little clairvoyance on your part may be equally beneficial.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

It doesn't take a clairvoyant to realise that they're going to shutdown those transfer from servers after they opened the stock gates and let everyone out for free.  No,SOE probably shouldn't have said they had "no plans" to shut them down but still, I do hope that the majority of people do have some self thought and could figure out for themselves that such an event is likely to happen sooner rather than later. 

For those that deliberately chose not to transfer because of community, I have to ask, what community?  There's very few left on those servers and while I can understand a small community can be more appealing to some, there are transfer-to servers that aren't exactly massive in populations (such as Gorath) that would likely give the same atmosphere.

I still don't have any sympathy.

 

So what you're saying is that regardless of what is being said officially at SoE the signs were clearly there and people should have seen this coming?

http://www.massively.com/2008/10/27/soe-responds-to-the-announcement-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

John Smedley: "At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that."
 

You do understand that many people are telling others like yourself that this is coming as well and that you should see the signs too. Perhaps a little clairvoyance on your part may be equally beneficial.

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

As bad as SWG is, I don't think ToR has to be to sucessful to hurt SWG subs. I think most of the pvpers will quit and move to ToR, the people that prefer sandbox or complex crafting will stay. Just my opinion, could be wrong though.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

 

As bad as SWG is, I don't think ToR has to be to sucessful to hurt SWG subs. I think most of the pvpers will quit and move to ToR, the people that prefer sandbox or complex crafting will stay. Just my opinion, could be wrong though.

Not enough info has been given on PvP for that to be considered a factor yet. 

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

It doesn't take a clairvoyant to realise that they're going to shutdown those transfer from servers after they opened the stock gates and let everyone out for free.  No,SOE probably shouldn't have said they had "no plans" to shut them down but still, I do hope that the majority of people do have some self thought and could figure out for themselves that such an event is likely to happen sooner rather than later. 

For those that deliberately chose not to transfer because of community, I have to ask, what community?  There's very few left on those servers and while I can understand a small community can be more appealing to some, there are transfer-to servers that aren't exactly massive in populations (such as Gorath) that would likely give the same atmosphere.

I still don't have any sympathy.

 

So what you're saying is that regardless of what is being said officially at SoE the signs were clearly there and people should have seen this coming?

http://www.massively.com/2008/10/27/soe-responds-to-the-announcement-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/

John Smedley: "At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that."
 

You do understand that many people are telling others like yourself that this is coming as well and that you should see the signs too. Perhaps a little clairvoyance on your part may be equally beneficial.

 

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

Believe it or not I'm actually impressed that you've conceded that point as there is certainly enough reason to be concerned about the future of SWG IMO.

But my problem is with the "no plans" cope out Smed/SoE uses to their exclusive benefit (i.e. no plans to introduce RMT to EQ, no plans for a classic server, etc.). How can any of us make an informed decision regarding the MMO services offered by SoE if they consistently use the non-commital "no plan" defense?

Where is the honesty and integreity we require to make informed decisions if their word is not enough? Why is "clairvoyance" required as part of our subscription?

We deserve better then that IMO.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

 

As bad as SWG is, I don't think ToR has to be to sucessful to hurt SWG subs. I think most of the pvpers will quit and move to ToR, the people that prefer sandbox or complex crafting will stay. Just my opinion, could be wrong though.

 

Not enough info has been given on PvP for that to be considered a factor yet. 

I think as long as a Restuss-like sit and wait PvP zone is not mentioned, that's all you need to consider. SWG PvP is just bad.

Originally posted by Obraik

It doesn't take a clairvoyant to realise that they're going to shutdown those transfer from servers after they opened the stock gates and let everyone out for free.  No,SOE probably shouldn't have said they had "no plans" to shut them down but still, I do hope that the majority of people do have some self thought and could figure out for themselves that such an event is likely to happen sooner rather than later. 

For those that deliberately chose not to transfer because of community, I have to ask, what community?  There's very few left on those servers and while I can understand a small community can be more appealing to some, there are transfer-to servers that aren't exactly massive in populations (such as Gorath) that would likely give the same atmosphere.

I still don't have any sympathy.

The people that stayed, did so for their own reasons.  Not for reasons that you would find acceptable.  It is not your place to judge them stupid for playing the game they way they want. 

Nor is it your place to call them stupid for listening to the words of the company.  "the combat upgrade is here to stay" if you recall.  When they said they had no plans to shut down the servers, it meant just that no?

I don't think anyone is complaining the servers are getting closed, but the manner it is being handled.  It is clumsy and as can screw players over. 

End result is that only soe had the ability to enact closures, how they are handled and the ramifications of it.  It is not the fault of the players. 

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Yes, one day in the future, the game will close.  Whether TOR has any effect on that depends on how well it succedes. 

 

As bad as SWG is, I don't think ToR has to be to sucessful to hurt SWG subs. I think most of the pvpers will quit and move to ToR, the people that prefer sandbox or complex crafting will stay. Just my opinion, could be wrong though.

 

Not enough info has been given on PvP for that to be considered a factor yet. 

I think as long as a Restuss-like sit and wait PvP zone is not mentioned, that's all you need to consider. SWG PvP is just bad.

Battlefields have gone a long way to removing the Restuss sit and wait.  You can now get yourself ready for PvP, put yourself in a queue and then go about playing the game while you wait for the other side.  During prime time, I usually only end up waiting in the Q for about 10 minutes before I'm being transported to the battle.  The upcoming GCW update should help with that too.

Considering TOR is mostly going to be Jedi centered, I see little interest for me PvP'ing in it.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik

 Well, there you go.  The only inconveniance for not getting in before October 15 is a bit of "stupid tax" ;)

 

LOL, how you can argue this is beyond me. $50 for me to activate my toon PLUS $15 is GOING to cost them players. No way around it.

Why would you have the audacity to call the players "stupid"? How are they stupid? What did they do? Are you calling them "stupid" because they took a break or got bored of the current game? Maybe they were waiting for a coming Update? 

I have to assume you get "stuff" or favors from SoE, because there is no way in hell any rational person could justify the $50 fee to move a toon. If I go back, I don't have to pay the $50 to access my stuff...why should someone on a closed server??? It's a database...not like a Dev has to actually go in there and move my gear. I have several other accounts that were not active at all during the FCTS. Oct 16th, I can log in and play those toons for just $15...even though they have been inactive as long as anyone else's on a "dead" server. As one poster put it, the $50 is simply extortion.

That $50 fee just ensures none of the missing Vets from that server NEVER return. The only ones you can call "stupid" for the $50 is SoE...or maybe this is their plan.

 

 

They're not players, they're ex-players.  I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub.  THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off.  Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago).  If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.

I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them.  My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you ;) )

Well, I know some players who didn't receive any notices indicating that their accounts were opened for a free month (they WERE subscribed to the newsletters, too). Even I didn't receive any notification e-mails, but I'm fortunate in the respect that I check the forums even when I'm not playing the game. They (the players I know) would have had to physically check the website, and since they were too obsessed with the MMO they were playing at the time, why would they? If not for me, they would be in the same situation as some of the posters in this thread: pay to reactivate your account by the 15th or pay to retrieve your character. Kind of ridiculous, if you ask me, since SOE has made it quite clear that they are refusing to grant another reactivation period.

To you it may seem "lazy," but people who are currently playing other MMOs shouldn't be forced to constantly check back to see if their accounts have been reactivated on the spur of the moment by SOE. If e-mail notifications had been sent out, I might understand your perspective on this issue, but to me this seems as if SOE is the culpable one here.

Originally posted by Wrender

Let me get this straight... They shut your server down? Completely? Didn't it like maybe merge with another server? You can't even log in and "look" at your character anymore cause that particular server no longer exists? And in order to move said character to another server they are charging you money to do so? 50 bucks??? That just don't sound right. I have played pretty much all SOE games and I have never heard of them doing anything like that to people. SOE may be idiots for not realizing the potential of Vanguard: Saga of Heros but charging 50 bucks to move your char off a no longer existing server is just unacceptable. I'd be on the phone annoying the hell out of someone for doing so!

Lets go over this...

First things first if you have a character on one of the servers that are shutting down you may move that character for free to one of the servers that are staying open. To sum it up, if your on a server like Kauri that has next to no one on it, you may move yourself over to one of the servers that is staying up like Starsider for nothing. You do not pay $50 dollars to move, and this is one per-character. Meaning you can move any character you like to those servers that are staying open.

I know lots of people (mostly from Lowca) that hasn't played in years and their characters are still on Lowca, the $50 is a definite way to keep them away from the game unless they're willing to make new characters.

$50 for a transfer is way too much anyways, next highest is like $25 which is WoW I think.

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Considering TOR is mostly going to be Jedi centered, I see little interest for me PvP'ing in it.

Hah, SWG is not jedi centric now, right? I actually resubbed about 3 months ago, I think I lasted about a week before I ran out of fun. It was really nothing more then Jedi and Spies. 

Anyways, I think you will be pretty wrong, I usually play mlee classes in MMOs, so far "all" the ranged classes shown in ToR seem more appealing then Jedi/Sith. There was actually a thread about a month back on the ToR forums, lots of people felt the same.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Considering TOR is mostly going to be Jedi centered, I see little interest for me PvP'ing in it.

 

Hah, SWG is not jedi centric now, right? I actually resubbed about 3 months ago, I think I lasted about a week before I ran out of fun. It was really nothing more then Jedi and Spies. 

Anyways, I think you will be pretty wrong, I usually play mlee classes in MMOs, so far "all" the ranged classes shown in ToR seem more appealing then Jedi/Sith. There was actually a thread about a month back on the ToR forums, lots of people felt the same.

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

To answer the original question as posed in the title of this thread, no I cannot think of any other mmo that has charged players to move characters after a server merger.  Every game that I can think of has a free character transfer after there are server mergers.  Even after the mergers have happened and do not require former players to resubscribe during a 30 day period to avoid a psuedo $50 reactivation fee.   Even soe games have given free transfers if a players resubscribes at any time AFTER servers mergers have occured.  I know, because I have done it.

A valid reason for the hows and whys soe is conducting mergers in this manner eludes me and I have been thinking hard for a reason that makes good business sense.  I understand that it is not likely many former players will ever return to swg, but that doesn't mean there are not a lot of people who really want to.  This is effectively soe closing the door on recovery. 

Regardless of how hard the current players so desperately want to shift attention to former players for what is going on and away from how soe is conducting these mergers, it still puts soe in a very small [unique?] position in how they are handling the mergers.

It is just another case of soe not caring and their current playerbase telling people to go away. 

Originally posted by Obraik

 

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

Jedi are far more then healthy in numbers, same goes for Spy.

Even if ToR is full of Jedi/Sith, at least it's historically correct in lore. Something SWG is not. People also have other reasons for not choosing what you think will be the FOTM class. Story being a huge part of that. Every class seems to have it's own unique appeal. I really can't say that for SWG. Bounty Hunters in galaxies have what? Bubbles? That's amazingly awesome and I think I will roll a BH in SWG because they had, bubbles, in the movies. Out of all classes in WoW why did SoE have to make BH the damn Paladin?

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Considering TOR is mostly going to be Jedi centered, I see little interest for me PvP'ing in it.

 

Hah, SWG is not jedi centric now, right? I actually resubbed about 3 months ago, I think I lasted about a week before I ran out of fun. It was really nothing more then Jedi and Spies. 

Anyways, I think you will be pretty wrong, I usually play mlee classes in MMOs, so far "all" the ranged classes shown in ToR seem more appealing then Jedi/Sith. There was actually a thread about a month back on the ToR forums, lots of people felt the same.

 

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

The number of jedi running around during this timeline beyond Luke, Yoda, Vadar and the emperor is not healthy.  Also considering as the number of jedi increased in swg, the player population declined.  I must disagree with your definition of healthy.  Just as I disgree with your definition of successful.  

It is funny how you demand proof of even the most obvious situations in swg or soe, but you have little problem making unsubstantiated claims about bioware and their star wars mmo without missing a beat. 

People cannot say soe is on the decline, even when the company has closed more than half of their total game servers across their mmo division, but you can make claims about a game that has not been released yet and you have never played.

Very nice.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Considering TOR is mostly going to be Jedi centered, I see little interest for me PvP'ing in it.

 

Hah, SWG is not jedi centric now, right? I actually resubbed about 3 months ago, I think I lasted about a week before I ran out of fun. It was really nothing more then Jedi and Spies. 

Anyways, I think you will be pretty wrong, I usually play mlee classes in MMOs, so far "all" the ranged classes shown in ToR seem more appealing then Jedi/Sith. There was actually a thread about a month back on the ToR forums, lots of people felt the same.

 

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

 

The number of jedi running around during this timeline beyond Luke, Yoda, Vadar and the emperor is not healthy.  Also considering as the number of jedi increased in swg, the player population declined.  I must disagree with your definition of healthy.  Just as I disgree with your definition of successful.  

 

It is funny how you demand proof of even the most obvious situations in swg or soe, but you have little problem making unsubstantiated claims about bioware and their star wars mmo without missing a beat. 

People cannot say soe is on the decline, even when the company has closed more than half of their total game servers across their mmo division, but you can make claims about a game that has not been released yet and you have never played.

Very nice.

Agree with you here and I will be very interested to know were he gets the impression that SWTOR will be jedi centric. From what I have gathered is every class will have its own unique experience so its actually centred on your class due to the whole focus being put on story. IF however he is referring jedi out numbering the other classes I highly doubt it as for once the other classes actually look more viable than jedi do thats not saying jedi won't be popular but it won't be a wash with millions of jedi (my impression so don't take that as fact).

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

 

Jedi are far more then healthy in numbers, same goes for Spy.

Even if ToR is full of Jedi/Sith, at least it's historically correct in lore. Something SWG is not. People also have other reasons for not choosing what you think will be the FOTM class. Story being a huge part of that. Every class seems to have it's own unique appeal. I really can't say that for SWG. Bounty Hunters in galaxies have what? Bubbles? That's amazingly awesome and I think I will roll a BH in SWG because they had, bubbles, in the movies. Out of all classes in WoW why did SoE have to make BH the damn Paladin?

Current numbers show that right around 30% of toons are Jedi and around 7% are spys in SWG.

Originally posted by Gutboy

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Obraik

 

There's a "healthy" amount of Jedi, but there's a healthy amount of non-jedi.  I encounter more non-Jedi then I do Jedi...

 

Jedi are far more then healthy in numbers, same goes for Spy.

Even if ToR is full of Jedi/Sith, at least it's historically correct in lore. Something SWG is not. People also have other reasons for not choosing what you think will be the FOTM class. Story being a huge part of that. Every class seems to have it's own unique appeal. I really can't say that for SWG. Bounty Hunters in galaxies have what? Bubbles? That's amazingly awesome and I think I will roll a BH in SWG because they had, bubbles, in the movies. Out of all classes in WoW why did SoE have to make BH the damn Paladin?

 

Current numbers show that right around 30% of toons are Jedi and around 7% are spys in SWG.

Got a link to this? 30% Jedi, so one class represents 30% of the total population out of Nine classes right. Where was you going with this?

Originally posted by Daffid011

To answer the original question as posed in the title of this thread, no I cannot think of any other mmo that has charged players to move characters after a server merger.  Every game that I can think of has a free character transfer after there are server mergers.  Even after the mergers have happened and do not require former players to resubscribe during a 30 day period to avoid a psuedo $50 reactivation fee.   Even soe games have given free transfers if a players resubscribes at any time AFTER servers mergers have occured.  I know, because I have done it.

 

A valid reason for the hows and whys soe is conducting mergers in this manner eludes me and I have been thinking hard for a reason that makes good business sense.  I understand that it is not likely many former players will ever return to swg, but that doesn't mean there are not a lot of people who really want to.  This is effectively soe closing the door on recovery. 

Regardless of how hard the current players so desperately want to shift attention to former players for what is going on and away from how soe is conducting these mergers, it still puts soe in a very small [unique?] position in how they are handling the mergers.

 

It is just another case of soe not caring and their current playerbase telling people to go away. 

"A valid reason for the hows and whys soe is conducting mergers in this manner eludes me and I have been thinking hard for a reason that makes good business sense."

I would believe that there is a reason for SOE to make this move contrary to what every other MMO has done in simular situations.  However, it's kinda like the seeing closing servers is on the way when SOE is stating "we have no plans for server closures, at the moment".

If (and I use the word "if") ALL the servers were to be closed in the near future in regards to a "sunset" (remember Smedly used that word), then haveing "vets" come back, at all, is of no importance.  Everything I see seems to point in that direction, now, and it really appears to me that this decision has already been made on the part of SOE.

Smed using the word "sunset" in connection with SWG, no long term future development plans past mainly this year, TOR coming out soon, SOE working on another Star Wars "free realms" MMO, The Producer beats feet (probably to the tween browser based game) and his replacement has to do his original job AND the Producer job (- 1 more dev), Drak being very quiet in his ti-raids (muzzled?), SOE Austin, as a whole, going into "we don't post/talk mode", player concerns going even un-acknowleged (LS = pve (tank) without even so much as a "working as intended", another buddy system designed to milk players out of yet another 60.00 fully aware that new players in this system are not so much a factor as they tried it before and it failed miserably, and even good business sence would tell you that LA would not want 2 competing MMOs in this economy, etc., etc., etc.

As with server closings, the handwriting appears to be on the wall.  The evidence is starting to add up.

Again, this is just about people generating outrage at anything SOE does, regardless of whether there is any real impact to themselves.

Anyone who was going to return the the game as it is today would have done so already.   If you have not transferred your character in one of the previous free transfers or taking advantage of the one currently going, then you have no intent, never had intent and never will have intent to do so.   You are feigning outrage.

On the very outside chance there is that 1 in 1000 person who truly, legitimately, was holding out some sliver of hope that SWG would "improve" enough to warrant returning and is now upset at these developments  - Well, you are living in a fantasy world anyway and need to move on.   This is best.

SOE is finally admitting they will never get the vets to return (in any substantial number).  They are giving up in trying.