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Originally posted by Xasapis Can't argue with the quoted text. As for the rest, it's just a matter of opinion. Thing is, if right now I could choose between Aion, Final Fantasy and Tera, I probably wouldn't pick Aion. If I could choose between everything mentioned and a revamped Anarchy Online, I'd pick AO (or Starcraft MMO), or any other setting besides fantasy. So it comes down to choices we have at the particular time we're discussing things.
Amen. And I hope they close the thread because someone who got bored after playing for 5 years doesn't really deserve a tribute like this. Neither does Blizzard.
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
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An interesting thought to explore is what about all the burnouts that leave WoW at some point? Where do they go? Personally, I don't think that the majority of them touch any other MMO, otherwise we'd have seen a bigger growth of the rest of the MMO crowd. Bottom line, WoW brought the big crowds and the acceptability in the gender, but not the growth one would expect. |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf Amen. And I hope they close the thread because someone who got bored after playing for 5 years doesn't really deserve a tribute like this. Neither does Blizzard.
Sometimes we DO agree. |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
I'm going to assume that was directed at me to save you the hassle of fixing the error, unless you are agreeing with yourself :P Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by Xasapis
That's a wet thumb practice. Only Blizzard has some data about that I guess. But you can always have some theories about it. Tell you what: X, open up a new thread about this. Interesting stuff. Enough honor has been given to the OP here. Blizzard doesn't deserve such titles in the first place. |
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Originally posted by Xasapis
The only reason I feel I have the ability to answer this is because of how many people I know that play/played WoW and got burned out. Most of them actually go back, after 2-3 months, then 6 months later, quit, claim its the last time and go back. Some actually go on to do other things, play other MMOs, Single Player games they have missed over the years. But as I said, most seem to return, not much out there to choose from, in my opinion. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Kaocan
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/18/09
The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend. |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
No no, the haters can't stand you because you make shit up. Please, lets be realistic shall we? Lets use your own tool there, you honestly believe that only 547 people ever logged into Aion at any one time? Honestly? This is credible data to you? And you are fully aware that those numbers on Xfire are only Xfire users right? The rest of us, who think that is trash are not counted by them. The links we have given you showing you more realistic numbers, you discount because they dont reflect the world as you feel it is, not that they aren't accurate, but that you think they aren't, thats all. You wanted links to data, we all gave you links, now you say you will ONLY accept official company web site links with the data?? Dude grow up already please, I know your old and all, but seriously its time to grow up. http://mmodata.blogspot.com/search/label/Source%20Links That should give you plenty of links to go read, MMODATA, and MMOCHART have been working that data since 08/02. If anyone out there is close enough to accurate on this stuff its them. And guess what, they are even taking your Xfire numbers into account when figuring thier data. Its just not 100% accurate as a stand alone source. 2009 data http://www.mmodata.net/ 2008 and prior data http://www.mmogchart.com/ Oh yeah, one more thing since your so stuck on the numbers game. How exactly is NCSoft billling its Asian Customers for play time? Same as WoW, or not same as WoW? If not, are the two even comparable on your comments?
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Originally posted by Kaocan
No no, the haters can't stand you because you make shit up. Please, lets be realistic shall we? Lets use your own tool there, you honestly believe that only 547 people ever logged into Aion at any one time? Honestly? This is credible data to you?
Please spare me the hate. Aion showed 250 K players according to the 24/7 Xfire samples in the last weekend. That's a program run by a changing 24/7 sampling rate. Reread my post before jumping and read about how easy you can control number of players in MMO's with it. Like I said use the WOW - EVE - LotrO reference as a measuring stick. No need to discuss before you can see the mechanism. BTW: Aion had around 2.4 K Xfireunique players on line in Beta ,(not now of course). And yes that shows around 250 K players in Beta. War had 500K and Aoc 500K in the pre launch period. BTW MONTHS ago (thanks to Xfire CLOSED Beta stats) I already predicted the 250K/300K Beta and 400 K launch week figures, because EVERY new mmo has the same "trend" in these last 3 years. EVERY mmo with a sub base that is. BTW It is exactly on top with NCSoft info too: 300K presales and 12/12 servers in the west. I'll make you another prediction: They will ADD servers in the first week of launch. Even will give you the number: around 6 US / 8 EU. .... because you simply can't host 400K with 24 servers. It IS a marketing move. Here is another tool I use. http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_4?rh=n%3A468642%2Cn%3A%2111846801%2Cn%3A229575&bbn=11846801&ie=UTF8&qid=1253180125&rnid=11846801 That's why I say they'll add more servers in EU than NA. You have to come a LONG way to beat up Zorndorf on this btw. Doing this analysis already for 3 years. Have fun, don't let the numbers of players spoil you to tears. |
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Originally posted by Zorndorf What kind of a marketing move is that? A bad one? I don't think that you can argue that having less servers at launch instead of more looks better. It does lead to a more healthy server population in the long run, and that's one of the big reasons that WAR lost a good deal of subscribers. But if you look at it strictly from the marketing perspective, less servers is bad for marketing. Which would look more impressive? 12 servers at launch or 100? |
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Originally posted by Xasapis What kind of a marketing move is that? A bad one? I don't think that you can argue that having less servers at launch instead of more looks better. It does lead to a more healthy server population in the long run, and that's one of the big reasons that WAR lost a good deal of subscribers. But if you look at it strictly from the marketing perspective, less servers is bad for marketing. Which would look more impressive? 12 servers at launch or 100?
I will even give you the catch phrase "Within one week we had to add 50% more servers !!!" I bet their art department is already making the banners for it. If I can see they will launch in the first week with 400 K, then sure THEY know it. Like I said 12/12 is a marketing stunt. Prediction: 400K first week launch. Atfer 3 months: 30% retention rate (like ALL mmo's launched these last 3 years). 6 months: a struggle to hold onto 150K subs in the west. And then we'll have the new kid on the block. NCSoft is simply smarter than Mark Jacobs (which shouldn't be too difficult)... War had the disadvantage of being unplayable with unbalanced or small populations. That's the ONLY difference you'll see with other MMO's. Most can play with 5 people on line. War not. Edit: And then some idiots will jump in and say their servers can hold 30.000 subscribers. So I am very glad to have a sampling tool. :)))))
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So they are doing the exact opposite of what WAR did, am I right? It'll still lead to healthier servers, in my opinion. |
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What happens to people who played WOW for 4 years ...? You're gonna make it or not ? Here is the first line : ..... they whine on mmorpg.com.
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Originally posted by Xasapis
Simple , they come to MMORPG related sites to whine how bad and burning and easy and .... WoW is now.
Problem is for many of them WoW was first MMO game and they want WoW still be for them as it was at beginning fresh and new game genre , but sadly you/we do not get that kind of feeling in any other MMO never again its like with loosing virginity , its never come back. |
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Got anyone in particular in mind? Seriously though, these forums are a refuge for the lookouts for options. I found these servers when I got tired from my previous MMO and was considering joining a new one. It's only natural that most of the people in here are in a transitional phase, or at the least, they are disillusioned about the current MMO they've been playing. WoW happens to get a lot of heat from those transitioners, because I a good portion of them transition from that MMO. When I find my new home, I'll probably disappear. Well, maybe I'll keep posting when I have an opening at work. |
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Kaocan
Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/18/09
The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend. |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Ok, so here is the bet for you Zorn. In 6 months, if your proved wrong by your own prediction, how about you post an appology to everyone and leave this forum community forever. You confident enough with your predictions to put your name on the line with them? My prediction is simple, I say Aion will hold the #2 spot in the market in 6 months, I'm willing to take the bet, are you? Oh yeah, and each Aion server is capable of supporting 7000 simultaneous players which is approx 2 to 1 over a WoW server. Incase you didnt' know, the amount of total subscribers each server can handle is irrelevant, how many of those subscribers that can be logged in at one time is.
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I like the last post....sounds like a typical WOW fanbois post ,basing the game on numbers? WOW the oft talked about game has what for content? raiding and PVP?PVP is not content and raiding is the simplest form of content to add,pretty weak game design and even weaker players for claiming this is a good game sad. Then you have the tons of WOW players ALL using add ons ,i guess that means the game is quite incomplete if you need add ons.Most of the add- ons are to make the game AUTO play for these weak players,so again it points to VERY superficial gamers,it does not equate to a GOOD game in any form or fashion. Now we have Aion posters claiming numbers means something again.Aion has even less content than WOW ,as a matter of fact AION is pretty much F2P content quality game,VERY little content,a game world that is race to max level ...PVP.zzzz boring 101.But wait ! you get all that customization...ummm 2 races lol ya that's a ton load customization pffft cheap design.Stay tuned they will sell you the rest of AION in a few months after release as an expansion lol. If there was no easy mode and so many AUTO play add ons for WOW,the kiddies would not even bother with the game,and all those bored solo players would not be dragging their 5 multi clients into raids with them and soloing.I think Blizzard gets a little too much credit for making an easy mode game,it is the scripts/add -ons that have really dumb down an already weak game design. NUMBERS mean squat to an UNBIASED review,you have to break down the game piece by piece and look at what the developer has done,have they put in effort,or did they take the easy route all the way.Aion just made another Lineage game but added flying and instead of castle siege they added abyss RvR not much talent needed to make that ,especially when only 2 realms lol.WOW took an already better looking EQ2 dumb it down with easier rewards for doing the same old ho hum quests,cheaper design in just about every facet of the game,because it made it faster to develop rehashed already used models and art,so that took little or much less effort,not much design in WOW deserve much praise.it is a very ho hum game. Polishing both WOW and Aion is a near joke,they both copied other games ,lineage and Eq,so the template was already laid out for them.Actually Aion is probably more polished because WOW has had lots of mistakes,you just don't always hear about them like you do in other games.Aion is evolving because their player base in Asia actually didn't like the balance or design so they changed to version 1.05,funny how EVERYONE was praising the game ,yet it needed to be changed does that make any sense? I think in the end ,the fanbois of both WOW and Aion will continue to point at numbers,instead of actual quality,that IMO is stretching for anything to warrant them playing their game.How about just saying you play WOW or AION because it does it for you?Trying to convince others that your choice is a brilliant one because everyone else is playing it,is a VERY weak excuse,or not?
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Originally posted by Kaocan
Ok, so here is the bet for you Zorn. In 6 months, if your proved wrong by your own prediction, how about you post an appology to everyone and leave this forum community forever. You confident enough with your predictions to put your name on the line with them? My prediction is simple, I say Aion will hold the #2 spot in the market in 6 months, I'm willing to take the bet, are you? Oh yeah, and each Aion server is capable of supporting 7000 simultaneous players which is approx 2 to 1 over a WoW server. Incase you didnt' know, the amount of total subscribers each server can handle is irrelevant, how many of those subscribers that can be logged in at one time is.
Just to let you know that 400 K Korean subs were on 41 servers from the official NCsoft reports. That's the usual 10K subs to one server ratio you will find in ANY fantasy based mmorpg with an un clustered realm/server system. So the double figures lie is already taking place ? :) FYI : (My)SQL server systems are worldwide standards in database handling. Sorry, but the bet is too easy, it is like taking candy from a baby. Sub based games don't have 75% retention rates past the 3 months period. I'll already give you an extra hint too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_4?rh=n%3A468642%2Cn%3A%2111846801%2Cn%3A229575&bbn=11846801&ie=UTF8&qid=1253184731&rnid=11846801 Hmm not even in the top 5 on amazon.com. Outsold by ... Dragon Age a game to be launched ... in November. You weren't really around when Lotro, Aoc and War had their pre launch period did you? Presales were sky high with those games. Let's see now : AOC 70K at last count and War 80K. That's life support phase. Oh but Aion is soo much better isn't it? :))) |
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@Wizardry. I am sorry you are too intelligent to play the crap we play. We should all thank you for your enlightning posts on the subject. I too want to play the perfect game. Until then I stay with Blizzard quality games. No need to explain in 5343 sentences why you differ.
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Antipathy
Novice Member
Joined: 3/29/06
Ex wow players never die, they just come to MMORPG.com to bitch |
Wizardy,
I will attempt to reply to some of your points.
Content - a great deal of wow content can be found in the levelling process. Many of the quests in the Wotlk levelling areas are extremely well produced. For example the Wrathgate quest line in Dragonblight is an excellent example of how to design a solo PvE quest (which may not be your thing, but each to his own).
No game in existance has infinite content. They all end up with either repeating stuff with different classes (FFXI), some form of PvP (EvE, DaOC, Aion) or Raiding (EQ, WoW). All these approaches have strengths and weaknesses, but picking one and saying it is "Weak" is superficial - since many people find a great deal of challenge and enjoyment in raiding, both in WoW and other games. If you don't enjoy it then fine - but you're going to have to come up with something a lot better than "it's weak" if you want to sound convincing.
Add-ons. Have you ever seriously raided in WoW - I don't mean the few introductory raids (Kara, Naxx, VoA, OS) but into the more serious and difficult content (e.g. Ulduar)? Add-ons most certainly don't "play the game for you". There's still huge amounts of challenge there if you want it. I'd agree that one or two add-ons are so essential that they should have been part of the main game (e.g. healers generally see some sort of raid frames add-on as being a must-have). However, that's only a minor issue. To me, it appears that the add-ons allow the game to be taken to a new level - it allows the players to concentrate on the interesting parts of gameplay rather than repetive trivia. You may say that using a calculator is "cheating" when it comes to maths - but where would modern engineers be without calculators?
EQ2 - how did WoW take "an already better looking EQ2"? You do realise that WoW and EQ2 were both launched in exactly the same month? So how can WoW have managed to be based on EQ2? It's true that both were based on EQ, but after launch, influence flowed more in the other direction, since Sony borrowed ideas from WoW in order to chase higher subscriptions. And whether EQ2 is better looking is highly debatable. It's a more realistic art style, which some people prefer, but it still has many weaknesses. Graphically both games have been surpassed by many later MMO releases (LOTRO, Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Aion). But many people see gameplay as being far more important than graphics, and so stick with older games such as WoW and EQ2.
Quality - what is this mythical "quality" that you speak of? For many people who play wow, the quality is self evident. Unlike a few other games you don't meet serious bugs every time you play. Combat is smooth, and characters are responsive. Many other MMOs lack that. |
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I am quite convinced that a man with such huge quality and intelligence as Wizardry played WOW anno 2009, he would certainly be surprised of some aspects of WOW, he didn't even realise they were in. But helas the man doesn't play WOW. So I would give him one advice. Do yourself a favor Wiz ... and buy the CAT expansion in X months time, so - as from level 1 - you'll see the new features and gaming pleasure we - as mere less intelligent beings - so enjoy. Having a good fresh zergy fight in that open world pvp zone, having a blast and laughs at that silly warrior who charges into an ice trap in Isle of Conquest or flying over the field of honor in your self crafted helicopters. Being part of it means so much more than spitting vomit over a game.
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Originally posted by greed0104
That was the sole reason for me playing the final 2 years I played. Really the game feeds upon itself once you have invested time into it. In addition the game brought many people in the genre who would normally never play a video game or an mmo. I'm pretty sure most of those people won't play another game after WoW. The guild I was in (about 50 people) had mostly people like that. Only a few were really gamers, the others don't play other games and won't play any other games if they quit WoW. I enjoyed their company and was pretty much the reason why I continued to play the last 2 years before I quit for good. It ended up being a paid glorified chat room for me. |
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Originally posted by taurak
QFT Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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Hurr hurr, why wasn't this thread locked already? Comparing MMOs with burger companies-the epitome of logic. |
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Originally posted by Thenarius
THIS IS A CONSPIRACY! Haven't these casual types ever heard of contraception? THEY ARE SPREADING LIKE RABBITS and drowning out the real players!!!11 Who cares if they have more money as a group than WE DO I WANT DARKFALL TO NOT FAIL!!!
fixt. (sorry, I couldn't help myself- its not like this thread accomplished anything)
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