Originally posted by Guillermo197

Anyone that has played SWG pre-NGE can easily counter the silly argument about anyone saying that being captain is the only fun class and that no one wants to be a security officer, engineer, pilot at the helm, cook or whatever.

Not everyone likes to be a full combat class. Not everyone would want to be a captain on the ship.

Back in good old SWG there were so many people that didn't give a flying crock about combat.

There were people that enjoyed being pure politicians and build and maintain the whole guild city, decorate the halls and ejoyed the heck out of it.

There were people that were hanging around in the Capital Cities all day long, changing people's appearances as Image Designers or buffing people up in cantina's as Entertainers. Not to mention that people just enjoyed being a Doc.

Back then, people knew what the meaning of MMORPG actually stood for. Knew what socialising actually ment. Back then you actually had true Server communities!

It was exactly what made good old SWG such a great game. Despite it's bugs and issues.

People could be anything they wanted to be.

That's why STO will just be Epic FAIL with no longetivity at all. People will be bored of the game within months!

Nothing is more boring then to go Pew Pew Pew in a spaceship day in day out. Or do repetitive ground missions with NPC crews on random maps a la CoX.

Or do you think it's fun to do ground missions with 4 other captains on your side?? What a complete joke!! Ever seen ANY Star Trek episode where 5 captains ONLY beam to a planet surface for a mission??

You don't have to be a hardcore Trekkie (and I am sertainly not one) to see that Cryptic has absolutely no clue about what Star Trek really is!

We got already a pleatora of Star Trek Single player and mutliplayer Space Shooter games out there! Why go play this one and pay a monthly fee?? And probably with a Cash shop attached to it as well!

That's why that person that wrote that Single Player MMO topic in General Discussion hitted the nail on the head!

All this Solo crap is what eventually is going to kill and ruin the genre. People become more and more ANTI-social by the day.

Just have a look at the average forum or ingame chat in how people communicate with eachother these days. If you can call racism, hostility, flaming, L337 spam communicating that is.

Cheers
 

As a Pre-NGE SWG vet myself, I can totally agree that there are people out there that could take a Star Trek sandbox game and enjoy spending their days as a Chief Medical Officer or something like that (I would be one of them).

Problem is, as much as some of us loved that old SWG game; it wasn't the success that companies want, and it's been said that SWG subscriptions were declining in the days leading up to the infamous CU and then the NGE.  So I think most companies looking to make a buck aren't going to take a franchise and make a sandbox game out of them.

That being said, given the fanbase, if any franchise could succeed as a sandbox...it would be Star Trek; but I think to satisfy everyone's sandbox needs for that game would be a daunting task for any developer.

Hopefully now that the STO folks are showing game elements, all of them focussing on combat; they will now show us some of the community elements of the game as well as other mission types such as exploration and scientific missions.  I think if they can sell those two elements; then they might settle some of the fears that this game is going to be all combat and no substance.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.

Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.

I can see both sides to the story. As a long-time Trek fan, I don't really get how you get to dictate to me or anyone else what the IP was about.

You're pissed cause you wanted player crews and the lot. The thing is, there's still plenty of teamwork, it's just not in the form you wanted. Starfleet is FULL of Captains... One for each ship, by my count and player crews aren't going to be faceless. Just because they're NPCs, doesn't make them meaningless.

Look, I'm not asking you to change your mind. You have valid concerns and obviously this game isn't going to be what you wanted. So I suggest that you don't play it. All I'm asking you to do is have some level of respect for people who don't share your opinions. Disagree, fine. Make wild, baseless, trolling accusations... Less fine. Common courtesy.

Yes, but he is right, and you are not.

This is the third attempt at using this IP with the same format, essentially a re-skined Earth and beyond DIKU ...in space.

People didn't go for it the last time, and, we are talking about cryptic here. They had no intention of doing anything but a format game.

It won't end well.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

"The only one that is completely clueless is you.

Did you actually read my whole post? I bet you didn't.

Did you actually read what others have been writing? I bet you didn't.

No one said it should be forced Player crews! No one!!

If you cannot get a player crew together or someone suddenly disconnects, you can fill the gap with a NPC crew member.

Pretty much the same as other MMO's like Guild Wars have been doing for years already.

And back in SWG I saw plenty of people running around who were not combat orriented!!! Plenty!

You vastly understimate the MMO community and make non-founded assumptions (like so many here) that the vast majority or even everyone wants to be a captain and a captain only! WRONG!!"

Of course I read all that nonsense, it was a real chore.  I especially liked where you invoked the SWG parts as if that has anything to do with this game.  SWG was a sandbox game, this one most certainly is not.  Like trying to compare apples and oranges.  I get it you want a sandbox game, this most certainly is not one.  

And again where are solutions to all the issues I raised.  As usual you conveniently ignore them.  You want to debate, put some solutions on the table, instead of whimsical flights of fancy.
 

It's because people like you, and pretty much the whole MMO industry doesn't have any imagination anymore.

It's all run by suits, who never played a game in their life, dictating how the games should be and dictate how we should play their games, instead of doing research first in what the MMO gamers actually want!

Really, I could write a complete wall of text here in form a complete design document in how they could have done STO.

But I keep it to some highlighted ideas.

First, the big FAIL of Cryptic and pretty much the most you... is seeing Captain as a class! WRONG! It's a rank! Just like Officers are a rank!

If any of you (and I challenge the suits at Cryptic as well) actually watched the different Star Trek series, then you could come to the following conclusion:

Original Star Trek:  Captain James T. Kirk was more like the macho combat guy with the rank of Captain.

Next Generation: Captain L. Picard was more like the politican guy with the rank of Captain.

Voyager: Captain Catherine Janeway was extremely well educated in various Science subjects with the rank of Captain.

Do you see what I am getting at?

Everyone should be on the same level. Specialised in a class. Wich can be a combat class (security for example), science class (engineer, science, etc) or explorer/political or support (medic, etc)  class. You name it. No ranks attached!

And if you want a themepark like approach, then you can make each class levelbased wich you can level up. No big deal here.

Ranks should be incorporated within a Guild System. Wich in Star Trek you could call it Ship Crews.

Wich means that the guild leader (Ship crew leader) will be the rank captain. Just a rank... nothing more. And the officers having officer rank. Again.. just a rank... nothing more. From gameplay perspective.

Then the various ship classes could be tied to guild progression (guild levels, whatever).

Guilds that would like to be crafting oriented would progress their guild through the Science vessel ranks to get the best of the best Science Vessel.

Guilds that would be more combat focussed would progress their guild through the combat vessel ranks to get the best of the best combat vessel.

etc. etc.

A ship doesn't need a captain to fly. So from gameplay perspective and concern about difficulty getting player crew together. Any assigned guild officer could fill in. (just like in the TV series when the captain was on an away mission or sleeping/resting in thier quarters).

Just like that away missions don't need to have a captain. Again... if you watched the many different TV series, then you would see that the captain doesn't participate on away missions most of the time.

For the more solo oriented players that don't want to be in a guild... there could be seperate progression paths (a path wich even guild members could pursue if they don't feel like hanging around with the guild for a bit) to go for small crew scout type vessels wich you could fill with NPC crews like in Guild Wars and like what Cryptic is doing now. Or take a couple friends (players) along for more difficult missions.

Again. You see where I am getting at?  Here are just some ideas and examples right out of head.

Then you can see how much FAIL STO actually is. How much Single Player focussed that whole game is!  It's just another rush job a la Champions Online that need to be shoved out of the door with as little as possible development time. Lure people into Lifetime and 6-month subs together with the box sales... to rake in as much money as possible as quickly as possible, without any clear longterm focus. If everyone is gone in a year. They already made enough cash. Rince and repeat with the next game.

Cheers

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Stradden

I understand, anyone who doesn't share you opinions must be working for Cryptic.

Look, I get where you're coming from. You don't feel like Cryptic has done much with the treatment of the IP. That's cool. That's your call. Someone else doesn't share your opinion, maybe have some respect for that even if you don't happen to agree?

Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.

Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.

It's called enthusiasm.  It's what happens when people like what they see and it connects with them.  If the 'gushing' is honest, it tells me something about that person's impression of the game.  That's why I read the article.  Information received.

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.  It's happened before.  It's not COMMON, but it's not something so wrenching to the experience that it fundamentally breaks it.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.  Actually, it does.  Starfleet is a FLEET.  Comprised of many starships.  Those ships need captains.  Thousands of Galaxy-class starships?  Pushing it.  Thousands of ships PERIOD?  To be expected.

This game does not make any sense!  Well reasoned.  Is this the Chewbacca Defense?

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.  Hell no.  THEN it would be the sort of shitty port of ground MMO gaming you'd expect from a plan for easy cash-in.

It makes plenty of sense.  Just not YOUR sense.  Be specific.

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

I have no desire to play the type of game Cryptic is making here...It could make for a semi-fun, single-player starship combat game... ala StarFleet Command (although it sounds like alot of the strategy elements from that game would be vastly watered down in Cryptics version).... but in no way does it resemble anything I'd view as an RPG...let alone an MMORPG.

Basicaly it's a role-playing game where you only get to play one role... Captain. That's like an ice-cream shop that only offers on flavor....vanilla. It's lame.

It's also a multi-player game that offers limited opportunities for interaction with other players.... what's the point of having it multi-player then? You could do the exact same thing as a single-player game....maybe with a LAN option added on.

The arguements against multi-player crews are bogus.

What do you do when you want to fly a ship and you have no helmsman with you??  The same thing you do in every other single MMO in existance when you want to do a Raid, Group Quest, or Difficult Encounter and have no healer..... You ADVERTISE for one!

There is no brain surgery required here...... and no need to reinvent the wheel. Most MMO's have no problem dealing with the dichotemy between content that requires Teamwork and content that can be run solo.

There need be no shortage of things in a Star Trek universe that could be done as a solo player....

Aside from non-combat things like research and crafting... there could be any amount of planet/starbase based missions that were solo-able. There is also every bit of plausability for (small) ships were designed for solo operations.... runabouts, warpshuttles, fighters, small traders, maybe even fleet cutters or corvettes.

When you want to do Group Based Content... you grab a CAPITAL SHIP and a crew to fly it. Just like when you want to go RAIDING in every other MMO.

What happens if you are flying a CAPITAL SHIP and a player on a key bridge position goes link dead? The SAME EXACT thing that happens in EVERY OTHER MMO when you are doing Group/RAID content and your Main Tank, Main Healer or Main DPS goes link dead....  1) Have another party member cover thier role to compensate....    2) Wait for them to return if your in-between encounters  3) Find another player of the appropriate class to take thier spot IF they don't return...   4) If your in the middle of a furball when it happens.... WIPE.

The exact same things happen in every other MMO that has any Group/RAID content.

If you wanted to be SUPER freindly to solo content.... you could even have the exact same setup that Cryptic does now... and just add in the ABILITY to replace an NPC Bridge Crew with another Player.... STO doesn't even allow the OPTION to do that.

Heck Star Trek even offers the perfect rationalization to get players from 1 ship/starbase/planet etc...to another in a matter of seconds..... TRANSPORTERS.

As for the preview...it did come off kinda light/"gushy"....... ok for a short preview piece, I guess..... but when I read articles about games... I tend to look for pieces that try to offer a bit more of a distanced objective perspective..... and drill down into greater depth of how some of the actual mechanics of the product work.... along with both pro's and con's.

This piece did sound a bit light on that sort of thing.

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.

Star Trek has thousands of ships, so what is so odd about there being thousands  of captains?  Are you guys seriously so delusional that you think the playerbase would be of such a number where everyone will play a role in a ship?  Who in the hell is going to want to play a game as an ensign?  ship's cook? communications officer?  Nearly everyone will want to control the ships!  I think they are going about it very realistically, and you will have these "faceless technicians" because who wants to play the lowly technician???

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.

Surprise attack.  They fielded what was locally available.  Space is big.  Maintaining a presence in Federation space would necessarily require hundreds of ships at least.  Also, how many of the ships in range were rated warships?  Not science or medical vessels?  Transports?

Then of course, you have to bend a little at the altar of creative license.  Do I think it'd be more fun to be able to crew positions?  Depends on how they implemented it, I suppose.  But I was looking forward to engineering when that seemed like a possibility.  Still, whether this approach feels like Trek at the end of the day is something you're not really going to be able to judge until it's in front of you.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=76216
 

Here's another thread on this very topic.  My opinion is that Starfleet is big...very big.  You have to remember that the ships are spread out across the galaxy.  The ships in First Contact were only the ones that could get to Earth in time.  Plus remember that there must be a bunch of medical and science vessels as well.

The only difference between this and what we'll see in STO is that all of Starfleet's going to be bunched in one little piece of the galaxy since we can't go everywhere.

Originally posted by Sinjai

Star Trek has thousands of ships, so what is so odd about there being thousands  of captains?  Are you guys seriously so delusional that you think the playerbase would be of such a number where everyone will play a role in a ship?  Who in the hell is going to want to play a game as an ensign?  ship's cook? communications officer?  Nearly everyone will want to control the ships!  I think they are going about it very realistically, and you will have these "faceless technicians" because who wants to play the lowly technician???

I do.

My job in keeping the ship functional could be just as important if not just as exciting as the one controling ship combat, if fleshed out deeper than "pushing buttons."  At least thats what 43 years of the franchiese has indicated.

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Edit:  Who is the creative designer behind this game?  I would like to know so I can stay away from any of his/her future projects.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

 

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible.  You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money.  Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development.  They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it.  None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
 

What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.

Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.

Originally posted by huud007

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

 

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible.  You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money.  Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development.  They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it.  None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
 

What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.

Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.

Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work.  Go that extra mile.  Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by huud007

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

 

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible.  You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money.  Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development.  They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it.  None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
 

What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.

Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.

 

Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work.  Go that extra mile.  Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.

Exactly!  And that unfortunately requires risk.  And a company that just acquired a big-name franchise isn't going to take much risk with it.  Sadly, that is the state of MMOs right now.  I guess we need one of two things to happen:  a) someone out there has to take a really big gamble financially to advance the industry, or b) technology has to advance far enough that those risks aren't quite as severe.
 

Originally posted by Sinjai

Star Trek has thousands of ships, so what is so odd about there being thousands  of captains?  Are you guys seriously so delusional that you think the playerbase would be of such a number where everyone will play a role in a ship?  Who in the hell is going to want to play a game as an ensign?  ship's cook? communications officer?  Nearly everyone will want to control the ships!  I think they are going about it very realistically, and you will have these "faceless technicians" because who wants to play the lowly technician???

Janitor #127....no, probably not. However a Trek Role-Playing game that doesn't offer you the ABILITY to play the role of Spock, Scotty, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, Uhura..... your ONLY choice is Kirk..... I'd call that pretty lame.

Originally posted by huud007

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by huud007

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

 

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible.  You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money.  Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development.  They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it.  None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
 

What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.

Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.

 

Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work.  Go that extra mile.  Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.

Exactly!  And that unfortunately requires risk.  And a company that just acquired a big-name franchise isn't going to take much risk with it.  Sadly, that is the state of MMOs right now.  I guess we need one of two things to happen:  a) someone out there has to take a really big gamble financially to advance the industry, or b) technology has to advance far enough that those risks aren't quite as severe.
 

You forgot option C)..... which I think we may be getting pretty close to now....

C) A Market so flooded with run of the mill games based off of large IP's that the ONLY way you can get a big enough return to justify the large investment required is to do something significant to set yourself apart from your competition in order to capture a large segment of the market share.

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Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Janitor #127....no, probably not. However a Trek Role-Playing game that doesn't offer you the ABILITY to play the role of Spock, Scotty, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, Uhura..... your ONLY choice is Kirk..... I'd call that pretty lame.

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I wonder how the game would fare if you could "dual role": (i) play as a captain for the main portion of the game as currently designed but (ii) also play as a specialized crew member (science officer, medical officer, etc.) in other parts of the game, which could possibly set up the way PvP is set up in a game like WoW.

Thus, you go ahead and play your captain, but you could put yourself in a queue/LFG for player-crew mission "XYZ" as an engineer. Then, when an opening comes up/group forms, depending on the mission you specified, whoosh! You are whisked away to join a team of like-minded crew members, with the party leader as the designated "captain." In other words, instead of being whisked to a PvP battleground, you are whisked to a player-crew mission/series of missions (equivalent to running a dungeon in a typical MMO). This is just a bit of "thinking out loud here."

Personally, I like the way Cryptic is going with STO, but I can also see the point of the critics: five-captain away teams seems a bit ... absurd to me.

Cryptic could then add additional "Player Crew" versus "I Am the Captain" content as expansions or patches depending on how well that content is received. Maybe even allow characters to use different versions of their primary avatar: one being your engineer back as an ensign and the other being your engineer now promoted to captain.

From a logic standpoint, you could view the player-crew missions and content as your character's "history" and training. It'd mean bouncing back and forth in time, of course, but, hey, this is Star Trek, after all. :)

Originally posted by huud007

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Ozryk

Originally posted by Ruyn

It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.

It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.

This game does not make any sense!

 

Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9?  Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves.  You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security.  Set up a shop on the station.  Your own quarters (housing) in the station.  Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.

 

Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?

Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.

 

What if its 100 thousand?  500,000? 1 million?  Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore.  That's all right though as I won't be playing it.  I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.

Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible.  You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money.  Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development.  They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it.  None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
 

What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.

Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.

Every feature/function that you put in a product costs development money. Every feature/function that you put in also has a chance to differentiate your product from it's competition and gain subscribers. Cryptic could have chosen to not put ALOT of features/functions in their game by that same token.... having multiple factions(e.g. Klingons) cost extra development time... having PvP in addition to PvE costs development time, etc...

Alot of people are just not happy with the decisions Cryptic made. Personaly I think the real problem lies even deeper then that... and comes down to how they conceptualized the game in thier design process. I don't think they really realized that a Space or Sci-Fi MMO is fundementaly a different animal then a Fantasy MMO. In thier design meetings they were still thinking of things in terms of Fantasy MMO's.... so what you end up with (in my view) is something that feels like a standard fantasy MMO wraped up in a Star Trek skin.

By way of illustrating, look at the terms they used when the Dev's talked about reverse or lateral movement in starship combat...... they called it "kiting" and "straffing".  Those very terms illustrate where thier heads were at.... those are terms that belong to fantasy MMO's like WOW.... anyone that actualy had thier heads wraped around ship vs ship combat would not be thinking "kiting" when thinking about moving backwards.... they'd be thinking REVERSE GEAR.

The very terminology they use to describe things in the game, I think illustrates the core problem..... when designing they couldn't get thier heads out of thinking of things in the terms of how things work in traditional fantasy MMO's.

It amazes me how some people just can't get over the fact the game isn't going to cater to their ideals of what STO is suppose to be.  Think about this a minute and you will realize that if the game did indeed go in the direction you want  the rest of us no longer have the game we desire.  When this game was projected to be the bridge crew type game, i looked and decided the game was not for me and left.  What i didn't do is whine over the fact the game didn't meet my standards as the GAME wasn't being designed for that standard.  What right do I have to demand they meet my standard over the desires of the people that want it diffently?  If you don't like the fact their isn't a bridge crew, guess what, this game isn't for YOU!!!  It's impolite to try and enforce your will on the rest of us that want this game the way the designers are making it.  Suggesting minor improvements is one thing but changing to meet your standards is the same thing SOE did to us when they changed Star Wars galaxies to its present form.  You didn't like that then so why try and do that to the fans of this game? 

For me this games has a hugh potential for fun as there are two sides with totally different ideals (Federation/Klingon), and the strife between them should be intense.  Too many people seem to forget STO is not only about the Federation and limit their thinking to just that one side, open your mind people and think of the possibilities!  I really like the direction the game is heading and like how the exploration will open up with instant places on planets so each captain may discover things differently from others.  I get bored doing the same canned missions that everyone else did also so refreshing to think I might be able to do and see something most others won't! 

I really hope you STO fans of a bridge crew type MMo get your chance in the future. But trashing this one will do nothing to promote that, on the contary it might do harm to further that goal as designers might shy away from this IP as hopeless!

Buegar,

I get what you are saying. Naturaly everyone is going to advocate for things they like...and against things that they don't. I don't think you need worry though.... at this stage I highly doubt that Cryptic would make major design changes in response to anything those of us with negative opinions post on the forums. The game is going to be released largely the way it is already designed. What you see here is nothing different the kind of fan talk you might see on a sports forum when some people think a teams management made some really bad draft/contract choices...or a coach made a horrible call.

Some of us just think Cryptic made some really poor design choices with the game....and are voicing our opinions about it..... I doubt most people here think there is even a prayer Cryptic will change stuff because of thier posts.

I get your point about personal preferences..... and everyone DOES have different tastes. Although I think there are issues here that go deeper then just that. There are things that just fit certain genre's/mediums better then others.

For instance, some-one could make an MMO based around Snipers/Sharpshooters. However if they decided to make it Tab'd targeting, no stealth and most of the action was melee based involving players standing 2 feet from each other slugging it out.... that might make for an extremely enjoyable game for some folks....but it WOULDN'T fit the IP very well. That's kinda what I see going on with STO.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Buegar,

I get what you are saying. Naturaly everyone is going to advocate for things they like...and against things that they don't. I don't think you need worry though.... at this stage I highly doubt that Cryptic would make major design changes in response to anything those of us with negative opinions post on the forums. The game is going to be released largely the way it is already designed. What you see here is nothing different the kind of fan talk you might see on a sports forum when some people think a teams management made some really bad draft/contract choices...or a coach made a horrible call.

Some of us just think Cryptic made some really poor design choices with the game....and are voicing our opinions about it..... I doubt most people here think there is even a prayer Cryptic will change stuff because of thier posts.

I get your point about personal preferences..... and everyone DOES have different tastes. Although I think there are issues here that go deeper then just that. There are things that just fit certain genre's/mediums better then others.

For instance, some-one could make an MMO based around Snipers/Sharpshooters. However if they decided to make it Tab'd targeting, no stealth and most of the action was melee based involving players standing 2 feet from each other slugging it out.... that might make for an extremely enjoyable game for some folks....but it WOULDN'T fit the IP very well. That's kinda what I see going on with STO.

It fits the IP perfectly, just not what you want the IP to be.  There's a huge difference there that too many whiners fail to see.

Originally posted by madeux

 

 

It fits the IP perfectly, just not what you want the IP to be.  There's a huge difference there that too many whiners fail to see.

It doesn't fit the IP perfectly Captain.  It spits in Gene Roddenberry's face Captain.  Open your eyes Captain.