From what I seen in the previews all around there is a LOT more content in Star Trek Online now than there was on release for CO.

I doubt CO and STO will be THAT similar, but time will tell.

It makes me laugh when the trolls and "doom and gloomers" run around like headless chickens shouting "OMG!!! I know we don't have much information on this game, but clearly it's going to be the worst game evaaaaarrrr!!!"

Grow up, seriously. The game's not even in closed beta yet. There's still plenty of time before we get a concrete look at the game.

As for everyone not being a captain, well only a captain gets to command a ship. Do you really want to miss out on everything to do with a ship? What else would you want to be? Random security member #5 that gets killed on the away mission? One of the random crewmembers that pushes buttons in engineering? A nurse?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

What an odd thing to say, considering that there are plenty of us that don't think he's wrong at all.

Originally posted by Blurr

It makes me laugh when the trolls and "doom and gloomers" run around like headless chickens shouting "OMG!!! I know we don't have much information on this game, but clearly it's going to be the worst game evaaaaarrrr!!!"

That's not me. I have been clear in stating that the game might well turn out to be a fun space combat game.

Grow up, seriously. The game's not even in closed beta yet. There's still plenty of time before we get a concrete look at the game.

As for everyone not being a captain, well only a captain gets to command a ship. Do you really want to miss out on everything to do with a ship? What else would you want to be? Random security member #5 that gets killed on the away mission? One of the random crewmembers that pushes buttons in engineering? A nurse?

If you were a Star Trek fan, you would know. I and others have shown how a multiplayer ship's crew could work quite well.

Your opinion reminds me of someone who thinks no one wants to tank or heal in a standard fantasy MMO.

Many players WILL want to be Spock, Sulu, or McCoy. According to what the devs have said, they won't be able to.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

Apparently he believes his opinion on the Trek community is superior to yours.

What I don't think some people are getting is that many Star Trek fans, especially those raised on TNG, have been waiting for something like this for a very long time. Not everyone is a leader, and not everyone wants to be a captain. Yes, some people want to be an engineer, to push buttons until they get a .02% engine efficiency increase. Some people want to be doctors, using tricorders and hyposprays to treat patients. People want an actual universe to live in, not a "Kill 10 Klingon Cruisers and report back" type of game.

I have not honestly seen where "most" Star Trek fans are fine with the direction Cryptic is going. In most cases, it's more disappointment and resignation than anything else. Fans will play the game, just like we've played all the other ST games, no matter how bad they might've been. However, that does not mean that we are fine with the direction of this MMO, just that we'll play it because we have no other choice for this particular universe. And the argument can't be made that we shouldn't play it, if we object to the direction so strongly, to send our message across. The only message that actually sends to the suits who know nothing about gaming is that a Star Trek MMO isn't viable.

That, my friends, is the situation that we are in. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't. We're so desperate for any game built on this IP that we'll take it even if it's mediocre, because if we don't, they'll just flat out stop making games for it.

Originally posted by Bruwin

That, my friends, is the situation that we are in. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't. We're so desperate for any game built on this IP that we'll take it even if it's mediocre, because if we don't, they'll just flat out stop making games for it.

It's a tough call, for sure. I think it's best to leave it alone, because the longer it lives, the longer it will be before another company has any chance to make a good Trek MMO. I think the market for such a game is still large enough to tempt someone into trying again.

Originally posted by plaguess

I bought Champions 7 nights ago

nice to see you have given it at least a week...most people do these stupid posts on the 1st day...

• Its just about the combat
• yeah but what MMO isn't...they all focus so heavily on combat and its a drag
• It uses mirrored instancing heavily, worse than even AoC did
• what are you on drugs?  1st off it's 1 server...so it HAS to be instanced otherwise you would never get to kill a single mob and would probly lag out every few minutes.  Also the zones are larger than AOC and support up to 100 people (AOC restricted the zones to 50)...how is that more instanced than AOC?
• the graphics are rotten
• personal opinion.  TBH i think they suit the comic book genre very well
• the quests are incredibly boring
• name an MMO that doesnt have crappy quests

The main reason Im afraid is because the game is pretty much exactly what CoH is. right down to the combat animations and UI, its just a CoH clone with the same mission and no point to it other than getting xp to get higher level to get more attacks to repeat until your sick of it.

Well i like the fact that it is basically CoH 2.0 (with many improvements).  Its made by the original CoH devs so i was always expecting it to mirror CoH pretty well.  As for endgame, it's only been out for a few weeks and most MMO's have crap all endgame at launch (WoW did not have raids at launch)

Star Trek is certainly not about combat and shallow immersion. It screams for depth and social gameplay elements. Cryptic's track record is to make mmo-lite games soley focused on repetitive combat.

Trust me, ANY company that picked up the Star Trek License would have done the same thing.  People think that because it's a big name IP that surely the devs will take risks and try new things...infact its the opposite..they dont want to waste the good IP and would rather go for a clone game and focus on combat.  Again though i ask you to name me a single MMO that does not focus on combat.

Im not expecting the depth of say other virtual world mmo's like star wars galaxies or Ultima but at this point it looks like world of warcraft will have more social gameplay than anything cryptic can dream up

Cryptic does suck on the social aspects of games and its quite frustrating at times.  That being said your post was just filled with complete hate for them for silly reasons.  You as bad as the Failcom people

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

If you were a Star Trek fan, you would know. I and others have shown how a multiplayer ship's crew could work wuite well.

Your opinion reminds me of someone who thinks no one wants to tank or heal in a standard fantasy MMO.

Many players WILL want to be Spock, Sulu, or McCoy. According to what the devs have said, they won't be able to.

I may have watched almost every single episode of every series of star trek, and gone to conventions (even had my own tribble, along with a tricorder and action figures, etc), but I guess you've got some super secret decoder ring that lets you decide who's a star trek fan or not. Get over yourself first.

Secondly, perhaps you don't really understand how a ship works. Think about what the characters actually did while on their ship in a series. People want to be Spock? Sure, but while on the ship, he stands at the back and reads a computer screen, pushing buttons. Sulu sits at a console and flies the ship under the commands of the captain, oh but let's ignore the fact that Sulu gets his own ship (The USS Excelsior) later on. McCoy sits in sickbay and waits till wounded come in and then patch them up, but usually nothing beyond that. The crew is also a fixed group of people for long periods of time. Did they switch helmsmen every week? No. Did they switch tactical officers every week? No. The Ship's doctor was the same almost every episode except in rare cases.

Onto the mechanics side of things, can a player at each station make a ship run? Sure. Having played puzzle pirates, it can work. However all it really amounts to is everyone else gets to play a minigame while the captain has all the real fun. Do you really want to sit and play a minigame the whole time you are doing anything in space? That's weak gameplay.  This, of course, would also mean every ship has to be the same type. Science vessel? Oh sorry, the tactical officer doesn't want to join your ship because he wouldn't have any fun. Battleship? Sorry you don't get a science officer. What about the people who want to solo? They wouldn't get to do half the things that the people in a group would do.

You're also not thinking about the big picture. Sure this would be all well and good for simple ship-on-ship single combat, but what about when you get multi-ship fleet battles? Anything with more than 1 ship would be akin to a raid. Do you really want to have to do a raid to do anything signifigant? With one ship per player, then you get to have all your different roles. The battleships tank or dps, the science or medical vessels can heal/buff, and so-on.  That way you get to have meaningful fleet battles instead of just "Looking for 4 more people to fight a single klingon ship".

Also, and maybe this is just more of your close-mindedness showing, but there's already been a good space game to put all this to the test. EVE. You still have healers and tanks and buffers and dps in even, but everyone still has their own ship. They have plenty of different ship types with different loadouts and so-on and so-forth. It's also a wildly successful game, or would you suggest that the devs ignore the most successful space MMO out there?

Do people want to be Sulu? That's fine, they can be a Sulu-like character, but they lead their own ship (like Sulu did in ST4). The devs understand that being part of the Star Trek universe, and actually having a signifigant role in it, means more than sitting at a console doing a minigame. It means being the captain and making decisions and adventuring out in space. There's nothing to say that you can't be a science officer or a medical officer and not still be the captain of the ship doing all these crazy things. You just can't limit your gameplay to something insignifigant.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Chastian

Star Trek fans are genrally happy they finally have a Trek MMO that is made by a reputable developer, who know what Star Trek is about.

No, I'm not.

I'm not happy.

I don't think they are reputable.

I think they don't know what Star Trek is about.

Aside from those points, your post is fine. Oh, and the spelling error.

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community.

So, they don't speak for the Star Trek community...

Most are fine with it.

... but you do?

Interesting.

Bren

That said, I don't know what will become of STO... The game people see during development and the one they actually get to play are never quite the same thing. Obvious statement, sure, but overlooked pretty often.

However, regardless of the IP, if it has the lack of depth that I saw in CoH/CoV (outside of character customization) *and* supports Microtransactions (ugh)... well... that's two strikes against it already for me.

The point I made in my first post, by the way, still stands. These doom-and-gloom wailers take one piece of information on a game that's not even in closed beta, and twist it to claim that it'll be the worst game ever.

How many of you have played the game? What? None of you? *gasp*

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by tro44_1

ok explain the problems in a way that somebody who is not a trekky could understand. Please

It isn't really a 'Trekkie' problem the OP has. He doesn't like the idea of mirrored instances in a game. A mirrored instance is a way for a MMO to control overcrowding in zones. How it works is when a zone gets to whatever the population cap is it recreates itself to handle the excess players. This means that any given zone could possibly have several different instances of itself with the player population spread out evenly among them.

 

I for one don't really have a problem with this as we don't even know what the population cap per zone will be for STO. It could be 100,500 or 1000 for all we know. The game hasn't even hit beta yet and the OP is talking like he's already played it so I think he's jumping the gun a little. This is not CO so the zone population caps will be different for this game. There may not even be population caps for most zones for all we know.

 

Bren

Just to make a point about the miroring issues. I played CoH from the very first day and that had zones numbered 1-5 for each area. As it went on after about a couple of months the mirroring stoped when they got a better idea of server loads.

So i say before you go and take a game apart in it's first steps, wait for a couple of months see how it's doing if it's still no good go for it. But it seems most people here have made up thier minds to hate a game that has not finished yet all based on a game by the same company (notice that Company not Developers).

Originally posted by Slowjo

So i say before you go and take a game apart in it's first steps, wait for a couple of months see how it's doing if it's still no good go for it. But it seems most people here have made up thier minds to hate a game that has not finished yet all based on a game by the same company (notice that Company not Developers).

I heard that CO's lead will be moving to STO after release. I'd say that is significant.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Slowjo

So i say before you go and take a game apart in it's first steps, wait for a couple of months see how it's doing if it's still no good go for it. But it seems most people here have made up thier minds to hate a game that has not finished yet all based on a game by the same company (notice that Company not Developers).

I heard that CO's lead will be moving to STO after release. I'd say that is significant.

After release not during it's conception

Originally posted by Slowjo

After release not during it's conception

Shortly (a couple months?) after CO's release.

As I've said in another thread, the fact that CO is sharded has made the game a much more bearable experience for me and yes I have met several people more than once, I can even name some of them because they had really nice costumes and nice names. About the STO on the other hand; when the game was still early in development all I could read about was "Cryptic is focusing on Story!" "Cryptic is focusing on lore!" "Cryptic have still not mentioned combat!" "The Combat will be bad because they are focusing on story!" and now its the other way round because of a superhero MMO they just released that uses the same engine.

First of all CO is a super hero MMO I don't know why you expect it not to be combat centric, the settings in the game are great and the stories are good. Just like all the new comic books nowadays, nothing is really new (except 52, Civil War and WWHulk; best series of comics ever btw) so expecting something awesome isn't realistic, the story is good and that is all it is (I especially like the cloned brain quest). CO is a fun game and I don't expect STO to be anything like it because Star Trek is a different IP entirely and doesn't have anything to do with SUPERHEWOES.

I don't know if people forget that the Captain can actually choose his or her own specialty. If you want to be an Engr. Capt. Jack Sparrow you can, if you want to be a Dr. Capt. Mc Paedo you can be that as well and all this affects what you are able to the on the ground and on the ship but I guess that is not enough for the people that are complaining. I know you want your 5 man ship crew and you have actually put it down on paper (which I'm pretty sure cryptic has already done) but can you put it into fully working form where all the different parts of the ship's 5-man crew are always doing something that makes them feel like part of the game (which I'm sure is where cryptic has either hit time contraints or have not been able to make it fun)?

Originally posted by Zeroxin

 I know you want your 5 man ship crew and you have actually put it down on paper (which I'm pretty sure cryptic has already done) but can you put it into fully working form where all the different parts of the ship's 5-man crew are always doing something that makes them feel like part of the game (which I'm sure is where cryptic has either hit time contraints or have not been able to make it fun)?

Yes, I can.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

Go to any other website that discusses this game and see for yourself. The response to STO especially after the PAX demo has been overwhelmingly positive. This site just seems to attract the negative types. Anywhere else the posts are about ten to one in favor of STO the way it is.

Bren

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Chastian

Star Trek fans are genrally happy they finally have a Trek MMO that is made by a reputable developer, who know what Star Trek is about.

No, I'm not.

I'm not happy.

I don't think they are reputable.

I think they don't know what Star Trek is about.

Aside from those points, your post is fine. Oh, and the spelling error.

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community.

So, they don't speak for the Star Trek community...

Most are fine with it.

... but you do?

Interesting.

Bren

That said, I don't know what will become of STO... The game people see during development and the one they actually get to play are never quite the same thing. Obvious statement, sure, but overlooked pretty often.

However, regardless of the IP, if it has the lack of depth that I saw in CoH/CoV (outside of character customization) *and* supports Microtransactions (ugh)... well... that's two strikes against it already for me.

 

 

Sorry, I was very tired when I wrote that and didn't realize how it would sound at the time. No, I definitely do not speak for anyone besides myself. That comment was just a general feeling I get from reading posts about STO on other websites and in fact here as well. It was not intended to 'speak' for anyone.

Bren

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

Go to any other website that discusses this game and see for yourself. The response to STO especially after the PAX demo has been overwhelmingly positive. This site just seems to attract the negative types. Anywhere else the posts are about ten to one in favor of STO the way it is.

 

Bren

I notice that as well. It seems like every new MMO in development gets lambasted on this web sight before it even has a chance to come out in Beta. They don't last long on official sites because trolling and flaming aren't allowed so they have to go somewhere. Some of the naysayers here  were banned from the STO website for posting the same garbage over and over again.
 

MMO_Doubter, you say you hear a lot of things. I heard you like to outright lie, and use conjecture to claim a game will be the worst ever. That's just what I heard.

How about you back up some of your statements with proof?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Yes, I can.

I really do wonder if you are saying that out of just being headstrong but even then I'd really like to see you put together a small demo of that nature if you could and then we would really know if it is possible to do and that cryptic should be choking on sand.

Originally posted by Beachcomber

When i play champions i dont feel connected to wider community. Im in an instance 1 of 30, nobody talks in general chat, the quests are 99% solo, you never see the same person in the game more than once.

It just makes the experience feel lacking.

 

 

well said.

this is exactly why I have a problem with mirrored instancing. and honestly Im surprised that anyone can actually defend champions use of it and eventually STO. its just an excuse to squeeze this game into a console format. Its like ordering a steak dinner and the server brings you out hamburger. Then you actually eat the burger but pay for the steak and then thank them for it ???

this is a huge mistake by cryptic. champions gamers might put up with this because frankly their a mmo-lite crowd. For some reason they expect to get less than their money's worth of value (i suspect coh influence as that game was also pretty shallow).

I dont see STO fans accepting this mirrored instancing stuff. and personally I cant even fathom 1 console gamer wanting to play a star trek game anyway so cryptic is stripping the game down for a console audience that wont be there.

My guess is STO will initially attract a large percentage of fans from the other large sc-fi ip, star wars galaxies. i cant see those players liking STO with instancing considering swg had such massive open worlds. I played swg at launch and it had zero instances. every world was wide open.

mirrored instancing wasnt accepted by age of conan gamers either. I was there at launch and I knew entire guilds that cancelled when they found out why they couldnt see each other at a guild meeting in-game.

We gamers of this genre have put up with a general dumbing down of the industry. we have put up with really bad launches and incomplete games. we have put up with things like the nge. we put up with the hype and the general lying to play the game. but this is where i say enough. i wont watch my favorite form of entertainment turn into a cheap multiplayer game

Originally posted by Blurr

It makes me laugh when the trolls and "doom and gloomers" run around like headless chickens shouting "OMG!!! I know we don't have much information on this game, but clearly it's going to be the worst game evaaaaarrrr!!!"

Grow up, seriously. The game's not even in closed beta yet. There's still plenty of time before we get a concrete look at the game.

As for everyone not being a captain, well only a captain gets to command a ship. Do you really want to miss out on everything to do with a ship? What else would you want to be? Random security member #5 that gets killed on the away mission? One of the random crewmembers that pushes buttons in engineering? A nurse?

Im not saying STO will be the worst game ever. What Im saying is it will have mirrored instancing and thats a big red flag for me.

Dont get me wrong, Im not totally against instancing. games like world of warcraft make good use of instancing. I played EQ and SWG and there were always people camping the best mobs. WoW solved this by instancing off dungeons from the rest of the game world.

cryptic went way beyond that however. the entire game is instanced. Im fine with having my own cave to clear out but when Im in a major area or a town I would like to see and be seen by everyone.

I still remember that first day in Age of Conan. our guild which had been planning events for AoC launch for months had a meeting that first night after launch in-game. we were on vent and gathering for our first meeting. the guild leader asked where everyone was. others said hey there are only 4 of us here, where are you guys. eventually we figured out that there were mirrored instances (they hid that from you in aoc so you were unaware of the separation). we all logged out and back in and found some were together while others were now somewhere else. it was totally ridiculous that a guild of friends couldnt get together and meet. we cancelled soon after.

STO is about social interaction and exploration first and formost. I dont see players in STO wanting an isolated solo experience. Therefore I dont see sto players accepting this mirrored instancing stuff.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

Go to any other website that discusses this game and see for yourself. The response to STO especially after the PAX demo has been overwhelmingly positive. This site just seems to attract the negative types. Anywhere else the posts are about ten to one in favor of STO the way it is.

 

Bren

I notice that as well. It seems like every new MMO in development gets lambasted on this web sight before it even has a chance to come out in Beta. They don't last long on official sites because trolling and flaming aren't allowed so they have to go somewhere. Some of the naysayers here  were banned from the STO website for posting the same garbage over and over again.
 

While I think there is a bit of truth in your statement....it doesn't neccesary make criticism of the game here unfounded. If I remember correctly with PE's version...the "official forum's" were either totaly downplaying or completely blacking out the companies financial problems.... while it was here that they were really being discussed openly. Or you can look at the difference between StarGate Worlds official forums (where everything is unicorns and rainbows)....and the ones here where you can actualy read about a state court ordering the developer into recievership because the CEO is being sued for fraud and misappropriation of funds.

Although, MMORPG's forums do tend to be a bit on the negative side (whether a game really deserves it or not). I VASTLY prefer that to the tightly controled, marketing dept. approved messages that  many official forums and rabid fan-sites try to deliver. Let people offer thier opinions good, bad and ugly...... as a reader, I'm comfortable enough with my critical reading skills to seperate out the dross.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

Fixed it for you. You speak for yourself and not the Star Trek community. Most are fine with it.

 

Bren

On what higher authority do you make that claim? From the people I have spoken to, and the posts here on this topic, you are wrong.

Go to any other website that discusses this game and see for yourself. The response to STO especially after the PAX demo has been overwhelmingly positive. This site just seems to attract the negative types. Anywhere else the posts are about ten to one in favor of STO the way it is.

 

Bren

I notice that as well. It seems like every new MMO in development gets lambasted on this web sight before it even has a chance to come out in Beta. They don't last long on official sites because trolling and flaming aren't allowed so they have to go somewhere. Some of the naysayers here  were banned from the STO website for posting the same garbage over and over again.
 

 

While I think there is a bit of truth in your statement....it doesn't neccesary make criticism of the game here unfounded. If I remember correctly with PE's version...the "official forum's" were either totaly downplaying or completely blacking out the companies financial problems.... while it was here that they were really being discussed openly. Or you can look at the difference between StarGate Worlds official forums (where everything is unicorns and rainbows)....and the ones here where you can actualy read about a state court ordering the developer into recievership because the CEO is being sued for fraud and misappropriation of funds.

Although, MMORPG's forums do tend to be a bit on the negative side (whether a game really deserves it or not). I VASTLY prefer that to the tightly controled, marketing dept. approved messages that  many official forums and rabid fan-sites try to deliver. Let people offer thier opinions good, bad and ugly...... as a reader, I'm comfortable enough with my critical reading skills to seperate out the dross.

 

 

 

AGREED.  The day StarTrek-Online.net was shut down was one of the highlights of my gaming career.  People should always be allowed to have a voice to speak their minds on a game.  At least here on MMORPG.com we are allowed to back up our opinions.