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Originally posted by Garoc
I've played a few of the games that tried to "replace" WoW, and honestly they sucked. Vanguard at release drove me to frustration with more problems than I care to recall. DDO? Five years ago, when I had time to sit around for two hours to find a group (like I used to do with EQ) that would have been fine. Now, with work and family applying pressure, my play time would be up before I found a group. Warhammer I've not played, but the complaints have been legion and have litte to do with WoW from what I've seen. Conan was enjoyable when the questlines worked, and a bit of a mess when they didn't. EQ2 was a disaster at release, and even though rumor has it that it's a much-improved game, I remember what SOE did to SWG. Only LOTRO provides what I would call equivalent enjoyment. But I can really only justify one subscription at a time. It wasn't enough better than WoW to get me to switch. If it were free to play, or a single player game (requiring no subscription), I'd probably fire it up quite a bit. One thing that WoW did, and in my mind is absolutely wonderful, is that it gave a purpose to the "grind". Sure, questing is nothing but going out and killing 10 x's and bringing 20 y's back to town. But at least it's something. I remember grinding in EQ (and Vanguard had very much the same feel, even very early on) for hours on end to gain 10% or 15% of a level. No killing quests or gathering quests. Just flat out slaughtering the same mobs over and over and over. WoW did away with that feeling completely. Even if I only have an hour to play, I can run out, kill 10 or 20 mobs, and finish a quest. It provided a sense of accomplishing something, even if it wasn't much. I have my gripes with WoW (the overabundance of epics for one), but overall it's still a tremendously enjoyable game. It offers solid-to-excellent gameplay for a variety of playstyles (hardcore raiders, soloers, and pvp). And if something comes along that is more fun, I'll make the jump. But it has to be better. Just "about the same" won't cut it simply because of the time I have invested in WoW. Not to mention the friends I've made (I've been in the same guild three years), and minor upgrades just won't do it. Have developers tightened up, become afraid to take a chance, failed because they tried to be all things to all people? Certainly. Is all that caused by WoW. Quite often, yes. But that is hardly Blizzard's fault. WoW's a great game, still a ton of fun for me, and something I feel I'm getting my money's worth from. If that changes, I'll look elsewhere. If not, I'll be celebrating those anniversaries every year (four years and counting...). Four years of WoW? I can believe that for a casual gamer. And that's kind of the point. WoW is a casual game, and IMO that's partly what is unatractive to me, why i never played long. You got nerd fags who play 24/7 and have 6 level 80s, and every good item, meanwhile a casual player is struggling to even hit 80 with one char. But most hardcore people dry out what WoW has to offer quick. So i guess it can go either way.
I agree that you say it's not Blizzard's fault. They set out to make a casual, fun MMO and they succeeded. It's just unfortunate that it has become a staple game for the industry and everyone is trying to mimic it for quick cash. And people new to MMOs think that it is the standard, and MMOs should be just like it. So it brings alot of fags into the community over other games, that just bitch because the game is'nt as polished as WoW, but for some reason are still playing it.
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Originally posted by Larita
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Originally posted by Larita
2Moons,9Dragons,A3,AdventureQuest,Aion,ArchLord,CabalOnline,Conquer Online,Corum Online, Dark Age of Camelot,EudemonsOnline,Fiesta Online,Florensia,Flyff,GuildWars,HeroOnline,KALOnline,Knight Online,Last Chaos,LOTRO,Mabinogi,MapleStory,MUOnline,POTCO,Rakion,Rappelz,RFOnline,Rubies of Eventide,Runes of Magic,Runescape,Shaiya,SilkroadOnline,Sword of the New World,Talisman Online, Twelve Sky,Twelve Sky 2 |
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Scalebane
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/28/06
Yours is not the path of force, though force is often needed to clear the path. |
Hey folks did you hear? WoW caused Obesity WoW caused Cancer Wow caused Columbine WoW caused the U.S. economy to fail WoW caused People to die playing it WoW tells people and other companies what to do WoW kills kittens WoW Drank my milkshake WoW hates Mudkips WoW is the leading cause of aids WoW causes all the universes problems
Ah i feel much better now, i always needed something to blame for everything. =)
We are all ignorant until truth is revealed to us.. However.. How do we know the truth is not in fact a lie.. "When a man has lost everything, he may despair and die. He might give his soul to the fate's... or, he can resolve to take action." "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." |
Originally posted by Scalebane
HeHE GOod OnE!!!
Not! 2Moons,9Dragons,A3,AdventureQuest,Aion,ArchLord,CabalOnline,Conquer Online,Corum Online, Dark Age of Camelot,EudemonsOnline,Fiesta Online,Florensia,Flyff,GuildWars,HeroOnline,KALOnline,Knight Online,Last Chaos,LOTRO,Mabinogi,MapleStory,MUOnline,POTCO,Rakion,Rappelz,RFOnline,Rubies of Eventide,Runes of Magic,Runescape,Shaiya,SilkroadOnline,Sword of the New World,Talisman Online, Twelve Sky,Twelve Sky 2 |
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Scalebane
Elite Member
Joined: 10/28/06
Yours is not the path of force, though force is often needed to clear the path. |
Originally posted by shadowxdrago
HeHE GOod OnE!!!
Not! WoW made this guy hate me T_T
We are all ignorant until truth is revealed to us.. However.. How do we know the truth is not in fact a lie.. "When a man has lost everything, he may despair and die. He might give his soul to the fate's... or, he can resolve to take action." "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." |
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People need to stop pretending that MMOs pre WoW were something special.. They were new and different from other genres.. Thats it. UO was a Gankfest / Grindfest. EQ was a Grindfest. DAoC was a Grindfest. This why WoW is so popular.. Blizzard lessened the grind to where people can progress and have fun along the way. Not that old and tired camp X area for 3 levels then move to Z area for another 4 all the while killing the same area over and over again for weeks at a time. The only people who seem to care about the old games are the ones still stuck with the elitist attitude even as adults. Then you have others who insist on letting nostalgia dilute there thinking. Nothing is ever what you remember. Oh and please stop with the whole " community " bit.. Its hilarious. Quit pretending already. UO and EQ were full of idiots too you know. You had people demanding 10p for a teleport after the fact or others who would send you some pretty bad /tells if you happened to be afk while they asked for a SoW.. Morons are in every game but the community is what you make of it and more often than not you attract people that are like you... |
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i'm not reading through 8 pages of QQ's, rants, and fanbois. I am just going to speak my piece.
Everyone is saying WOW is the standard. I agree that Devs and Investers are thinking that. How ever run the list of WOW clones in your head. Now run the list of successful WOW clones in your head. Pretty soon they have to wake up, and see that the WOW standard does not get the job done.
Everyone says that WOW is a bad game. List 3 Good games that are still running with good numbers.
For the record I played WOW for 4 years but stopped because it got old.
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Coming from a pen and paper background, what I found exciting in mmos like original EQ was the thrill of the transition to being "in" a fantasy world, as opposed to having to imagine one while rolling dice. Back in the day as I was first headed up to Crushbone Castle, my knees were knocking and I was completely creeped out. Now, 8-10 mmos later (including WoW), that emotion is gone. I never feel anymore like I am "in" a fantasy world - instead, I am just moving a pixilated avatar through a series of obstacles in search of better clothes. What will constitute the next generation of mmos, at least for me, is not a question of hard versus easy, fast versus slow progression, or any of the other hot button community board design issues, but one where it feels like I am in the game again. I see nothing on the table at the moment, either released or pending, that looks to offer that. But, it will come. Eventually games like WoW will be remembered fondly but will look like pong in terms of genuine player immersion. Honestly, when your primary focus is how much damage you do on a damage meter or whether you have the latest tiered gear, does it even matter that you are in a fantasy setting? There's nothing wrong with loot and gear, but first and foremost I want to be in a world that fills me with awe and wonder and excitement and dread. If I'm not getting that, having great loot in a superficial and uninspiring world just doesn't captivate me. |
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WoW didn't ruin the genre. WoW took what was available at the time and did it better than the other games that were out. Want to blame folks? Want to point fingers? Then do it by bitching about all the "new" MMO's that are being developed. You know the ones that just try to improve on whats available but fail. The ones that promise something new but don't? Not one company in the last few years has even tried to do something different. It's all variations of what came before. They see the success that is WoW and want their slice of the pie. It's hard to goto investors as a development company and say "Hey I know that WoW is making billions a year" but we want to develop something entirely new that might possibly rival it. Can we get 50 million dollars? Or they can goto the investors and say "Hey we have a game that's kinda like WoW but different enough that we will get 250k subscribers and make a good amount of money, can we get 50 million dollars?" |
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heartless
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
The more I think about it, the more I realize that people hating WoW mostly do it because it's the cool thing to do. WoW is not much simpler that any other modern MMO out there it is more streamlined. It is designed to reward a player more often than other MMOs but it is not much easier or harder. Take Aion for example. WoW offers much more in terms of character development. Different specs, different armor types, enchants, glyphs, gems. What does Aion have? Stigmas? That's sort of like the Glyph system in WoW. Take raids and even instances. After experiencing them in certain modern MMOs, WoW actually requires more coordination amongst the group. Most boss battles require a particular approach, they aren't a simple tank and spank, like in other MMOs. Quests. I hate to bring up Aion again but the game shows you exactly where to go for your quest. At least WoW doesn't do that, it just gives you a hint of where to go. It doesn't highlight an area on the map like Aion, AoC and WAR do. Besides which, most of the newer quests are varied and entertaining. Name another MMO where you ride siege engines and motorcycles as part of a raid? Or a quest where you have to spear a dragon through the mouth as it's flying around, trying to knock you off and eat you?
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Originally posted by heartless
Forget it. People want to be in love with AION --- the new female kid. They don't listen now. Have another go in 3 months time when they'll realise they have been making love to a travestite. Seeing those graphs and mechs, that's about the only word I can think of right now. But hey that's just MY opinion of course. Free world.
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girlgeek
 Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/07
“Mickey Mouse to a three-year-old is a six-foot-tall RAT!” |
Originally posted by Frostbite05
I have to agree with this. Blizzard is running a business. All they did (and continue to do) was/is make what they felt people wanted, and apparently....about 11 million of them still DO, in varying degrees, so.....how it's their fault that other devs choose not to take the financial risk and stray from that formula, is beyond me. GREED is ruining MMOs, not Blizzard. The developers that persist in making WoW-esque style games are really at fault here, no matter HOW you want to try to spin it. People tend to forget that gaming is a business. Blizzard happened to execute their business plan at the perfect time, plus....they had a built in following from previous games they had made. I don't know how people can continually blame them for their timely good fortune. wtf? Still....I anxiously await for that developer that will be balls-to-the-wall determined to create something different and be able to get the financial backing to actually produce something cutting-edge. However....it seems....true to gamer form....that every time a developer TRIES to step outside the box....the gaming community (at least on forums) shoots them down and insists their game sucks (which may or may not be true). So for myself....I just intend to keep trying new games as they come and hope for the best. --------------------- |
Originally posted by Frostbite05 Not to burst any bubbles. But i would have perfered if wow never came out. And that's me being nice. MMORPGS were always exceptable in my book. But if it makes you feel any better i blame the developers too for being so greedy and wanting WoW's pie. Yes wow was a good game in its own right. No it wasn't good for the genre. In other words it was TOO good in numbers.. and everyone wanted to copy. Now we are stuck in a mindless cycle of games coming out with npcs having quest indicators over thier head, easy mode mini map indicators... solo friendly play... hmm.. just my humble opinion. "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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Originally posted by ArcheusCross Not to burst any bubbles. But i would have perfered if wow never came out. And that's me being nice. MMORPGS were always exceptable in my book. But if it makes you feel any better i blame the developers too for being so greedy and wanting WoW's pie. Yes wow was a good game in its own right. No it wasn't good for the genre. In other words it was TOO good in numbers.. and everyone wanted to copy. Now we are stuck in a mindless cycle of games coming out with npcs having quest indicators over thier head, easy mode mini map indicators... solo friendly play... hmm.. just my humble opinion.
All of those are good things for most, just not for u. Solo friendly = great. Convenient and jump right into action = great. Players demand thsoe features (or code them in add-ons if they dont get it) and they got it. |
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What exactly is socially exceptable? A social exception? |
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If there's any reason mmos are devolving it's because developers saw the potential and are now whacking at the concept like it's some kind of a cash pinata, most of them missing by a longshot. When a developer rises striving to make a fun game, that fixes faults of the ones before it and evolves the whole concept altogether, will we maybe see another huge success. NOT when someone gets $$ signs instead of their eyes thinking about the success of WoW and forgets all about what should make a game fun, not how to drain the most cash out of the players. I'm sure Blizzard now is doing exactly that, since they have so many hooked in they can drain their players without a big risk of losing them and ending up crashing. Lession to be learned: make a good game, THEN cash in. |
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LordDmaster
 Novice Member
Joined: 6/06/09
Look inside yourself, before you point out others faults. |
Originally posted by highshooter
…..it’s a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: “It’s a Game”. |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
I'll start off this way. If we respected the majority, the USA wouldn't exist.
I was waiting for the first fanboi post of this thread, I knew it was coming. Arguing points that have nothing to do with the topic of this post, just to look at the words you type. WoW is successful on a scale that has not been reached by any other game developer in the history of the industry. We all know this. The OP knows it, as well as everyone else that is reading. Why you have to hammer home things that are already known is just a silly thought in my opinion. The vast majority of gamers are playing WoW. And why not? It is really the best out there. However, not once did you mention reasons why. Well, I'll give you something to chew on.
I quit WoW over a year ago when I realized how incredibly mind numbing it was to have to devote the rest of my life away from work to a game in order to be successful at it. I understand you have to put work in. I did. I was geared out in T2 before burning crusade. I bought it, grinded to 70. And while I was grinding rep one day, I asked myself.. "Why am I doing this?". I didn't have an answer, and have not played since. It's the same game over and over. It's not my preferred game, and that is all.. but what I'm really getting at is..
And this should make you think.. You are right, Blizzard has so many subscriptions because there is not a better game out there.. WoW is a huge success. However, think about it on the other side. Blizzard has so many subscriptions because there is not a better game out there. Does that mean WoW is great? Or.. does that mean the MMO industry as a whole is nothing but garbage, with the king of garbage at the top? Think about it. We have quite a few single player games that are amazing. There are revolutionary ideas all the time. MMO's are expensive.. but you'd think someone would go out there and put that same kind of effort and creativity into a MMO. Just because instances PvP and PvE is successful doesn't mean you can't add other things into the mix.
Problem is, these indie companies are trying to be TOO different. Full loot is fine. Player run economies are fine. Seemless, instanceless worlds, sure. But, some of these companies are going way off into left field, attempting to do something radical. I have plenty of ideas.. Unltimately, the path away from WoW is going to be difficult and long, No one is doing it right. And that.. is unfortunate. |
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girlgeek
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/07
“Mickey Mouse to a three-year-old is a six-foot-tall RAT!” |
Originally posted by Hrothmund
lol Didn't your mother ever tell you that it's socially unacceptable to correct people on web forums for incorrect spelling? ;) --------------------- |
Originally posted by grandpagamer
Dumb comparison. Wii innovated, Blizzard did not. I don't think you played Wii, especially the most popular games. Wii Resort is a blast. Blizzard is best descrived as the McDonalds/Bud Light/Coke of MMOs. Cheap, watered down crap but consistent with high brand name recognition. Playing: EvE, Aion |
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Originally posted by Hydroblunt
Dumb comparison. Wii innovated, Blizzard did not. I don't think you played Wii, especially the most popular games. Wii Resort is a blast. Blizzard is best descrived as the McDonalds/Bud Light/Coke of MMOs. Cheap, watered down crap but consistent with high brand name recognition.
That Bliz/MCDonalds comparison is also known as the moron's comparison. |
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Laughing-man
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/23/09
I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes. |
@OP So your ONE Friend has issues that Aion isn't spoon feeding him content and you say that makes WoW the problem? First off WoW doesn't have quest helper or carbonite built into it, PLAYERS made those mods that tell you what to do. Second off, you basing your opinion of an entire game off of your buddy is foolish and illogical. I'm sure many people will tell you that an individual can never represent a whole. Aion is a fine game, so is WoW.
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I quit WoW over a year ago when I realized how incredibly mind numbing it was to have to devote the rest of my life away from work to a game in order to be successful at it. I understand you have to put work in. I did. I was geared out in T2 before burning crusade. I bought it, grinded to 70. And while I was grinding rep one day, I asked myself.. "Why am I doing this?". I didn't have an answer, and have not played since. It's the same game over and over. It's not my preferred game, and that is all.. but what I'm really getting at is.. You are asking too much. It is a freaking GAME. You are doing it because it is fun. You stop when it is no longer fun. It is that simple. Any game that can hold yours (and mine) attention for years is a monumental achievement.
And this should make you think.. You are right, Blizzard has so many subscriptions because there is not a better game out there.. WoW is a huge success. However, think about it on the other side. Blizzard has so many subscriptions because there is not a better game out there. Does that mean WoW is great? Or.. does that mean the MMO industry as a whole is nothing but garbage, with the king of garbage at the top? Think about it. We have quite a few single player games that are amazing. There are revolutionary ideas all the time. MMO's are expensive.. but you'd think someone would go out there and put that same kind of effort and creativity into a MMO. Just because instances PvP and PvE is successful doesn't mean you can't add other things into the mix. The answer is simple: Wow is great. Why? Because there are OTHER entertainment options out there. Sure, there may not be a lot of competition in MMO space but people can play SP games, can go to movies, reading, parties, parks, you name it ... The fact that so many people choose WOW as their entertainment means that wow beat not only other MMOs, but other alternative of spending their time too. You are thinking too much. MMOs are entertainment. People play them for fun. WOW is fun (and prob more fun to many than other forms of entertainment). That is about it. There is no mystery of the meaning of the universe here. |
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