Originally posted by Cacolaco

Originally posted by Xasapis

It wouldn't be original if it was a cow. Monty Pythons would surely sue ...

 

Yeah, Cow Dropping Summoners are right out, as are enchanters named Tim...

 

Now there's a game for you... "Monty Python and the F2P MMORPG"

 

I'm derailing, aren't I? Sorry. I'll behave.

Is the point of your signature to be as unrealistic as possible? Or is that a terribly desperate hope of yours.

I had to ask.

Originally posted by twiggy550

Originally posted by Cacolaco

Originally posted by Xasapis

It wouldn't be original if it was a cow. Monty Pythons would surely sue ...

 

Yeah, Cow Dropping Summoners are right out, as are enchanters named Tim...

 

Now there's a game for you... "Monty Python and the F2P MMORPG"

 

I'm derailing, aren't I? Sorry. I'll behave.

Is the point of your signature to be as unrealistic as possible? Or is that a terribly desperate hope of yours.

I had to ask.

My desperate hope has been answered, Aion is the perfect mmorpg!

Seriously though, I was just throwing as much jargon as I could in there. I really just look for fun in a game. I get tired of wading through all of the "WoW clone" and "Overhyped" threads... Every once in a while you actually find a post that rationally discusses a game...

OP Spot on....

Most mmorpg players don't know what they want.. they will know when they see it.

Plenty of us will give Aion a go as we gave AoC, Warhammer and many others ago both before and after WOW launched.

Those dedicated to and still enjoying their main mmogs wont or may try others simply to reafirm that they are doign the right thing for them.

MMOG developers should know that a large % of their initial customers will race to end content and increasingly a large percent of that base will require some polish and balance at end game with objectives worth working towards. 

A larger niche want or are attracted to an apparent depth and breadth of content especially early on, so can be turned off if they dont have lots of character options,pve elements early on.

We will see with Aion but your sentiments are right ....the only caveat I would place is that IF companies want to reap the potential benefits of a multi million subscriber base, that takes more investment thesedays because you have to compete with wow..no good arguing people should buy your pedal bikefor the same (an often greater) price than the customer can buy a car...

If  you position your bike at a different type of customer the size of the cutomer base is going to be different.    

Most mmorpg players thesedays are mainstream gamers not the same type of players as those that first went out and populated mmorpg worlds.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by Horusra

I so not think asian grind is a stupid reason not to like the game.  That is a rather specific play style that many people do not like.

 

It is a stupid reason because anyone who's played the game will tell you it's no more grindy than any other fantasy MMO out there.

It's a rather specific clueless reason you mean.

 

Only clueless to a person that likes grindy games I guess.  If a person feels it is an Asian grinder...unless you are the master of the definition of what makes it an Asian grinder to them...then the problem with their reason if your own definition of what the grinder is not their's. 

I disliked EQ2 when it came out because all you did was kill mobs in a specific area till you dinged.  To me that is an Asian grinder model.  I have not played Aion, but if I found that in the game I would call it an asian grinder.  WoW on the other hand I would call a quest grinder as I never have to not complete quest to advance in levels.  Anytime I am out of quests to advance myself and must just kill mobs I feel even for the slightest bit I have to do it it makes that game more like an Asian grinder.

Asian grinder is a termt hat is widely understood to be a game that uses the traditional korean way of gameplay that involves killing many mobs with little quest or story focused gameplay. Aion does not fit any of that, it's quest driven and story driven.

The only reason why people call Aion an asian grindfest is because they know next to nothing about the game yet still think they should have an opinion of the game. The only thing they know is that it comes from asia thus they will call it an asian grinder.
These are the people that would call EVE an asian grinder if it was made by NCsoft.
 

Anyone who says Aion is an asian grinder clearly never bothered to try playing it past lvl 10 during Open Beta, and I agree with you they are the mindless majority that doesn't know what they want in an MMO they just go with the flow, but still what would MMOs be without noobs? It's our job to tell them what they want, so shame on any of you so called MMO vets that fail to try a new game unbiasly and can't make it past your own MMO addiction issues to properly assess the potential of a new title. 

If you can't look at a new title with a fresh perspective and can't spend more than an hour in a new game without the NEED to compare it to your current MMO drug, I'm afraid to say you have more problems than just the inability to find any sort of enjoyment in a new title and probably don't even find that much enjoyment in your current MMO. 

You are burnt out from the MMO scene and to me that means your opinion counts for very little.  In the real world there is no such thing as an illicit drug connoisseur, your just a junkie looking to get a new fix that will take you back to the enjoyment of your first high... I equate this to MMOs because there is nobody who can play an MMO 24/7 for 6 years straight and not be bored of the same old same old.   Take a long vacation from video games and stop trying to tell the rest of us that after being burnt out from WoW you just couldn't get the same euphoric enjoyment as you once had when you started playing WoW. 

For the rest of you, WoW is to pre-school as Aion is to college.  Skill Chains, movement buffs, RvR are just some of things over and above WoW that make Aion more of a challenge.  Aion has everything WoW has and calling it a wow-clone is partially true.  The graphics are better, character customization better, music and sound better, armour dyes, enhancing gear, mana stone slots, upgrading wings as you would upgrade mounts, the open world pvp is better... etc.

But for those ppl who call Aion an asian grinder without a inkling of the jargon they are using..

With Aion 1.5 the devs have filled in all the gaps between levels with quests to grind.  Aion 1.5 has just as much quest grinding as it does mob grinding and either way is just as efficient to level up.  This is something else that Aion improves on WoW with, the fact that mob grinding exp gain = quest grinding exp gain means you can play the game however you want till you reach endgame, and even in the Korean and Chinese version of Aion the players who've been playing for over a year still haven't completed all the new 1.5 PvE content.

I'm sure some will disagree but ffs stop calling Aion an asian grinder, your just showing us how little credibility you actually have.

---

Originally posted by Angier2758
As someone who works in software development (on the managing side)  Why do people expect a *new* game like Aion to have everything WoW has after 4-5 years?
Part of the rhetoric I hear from the anti-aion folks is "Where is this?  Where is that?  Why doesn't Aion have all of this?"
Has anyone considered that it's just not possible at release for this to happen?  You can't have everything you can possibly think up at release... WoW didn't and EQ didn't....
Why?
With that much coding at once you either will have so many bugs and balance issues at launch that the game becomes unplayable... OR you never actually release the game due to never ending QA.
There's a cut off in terms of content versus quality.
If you have some intelligence what you'd look for is a game that has a solid base to start with.  Has anyone said Aion is buggy and unplayable?  Even with gameguard (which I hate) the game is pretty damn solid.
Heck if all you want is the max content why not go back to EQ1?  At a certain point you have to ask yourself if you're willing to try something new.    I'm just getting tired of people listing everything WoW has and expecting a new game to have all that and then some without actually thinking about the actual logistics and devlopment involved.
Content =! Better.

---

Um...that leads me to question:
Is it an unrealistic expectation that game released this month will introduce something new than a game at release 5 years ago?

I don't think the OP is correct on the level of expectations people have for MMORPGs. Most people aren't expecting a game to have as much content or polish as a successful title that's been out for a couple years. There are certain minimal expectations, that are very appropriate, which many MMORPGs just have been unable to deliver on in recent years. This is a big reason why people have become so jaded toward the genre.

The bar has been lowered so much, that for many, myself included, criteria on expected personal longevity with new title for it to be considered "worth buying" has plummeted. Ideally, I would avoid a title I was pretty certain wouldn't hold my interest for at least a year. Now, if there are some things I like and I think there is a good shot I can get two or three months from a game, it's probably going to get a purchase.

While it should be easy for most to agree that a game doesn't need to launch with as much content as the currently expanded WoW, it really should try to launch with as much content and as large a world as WoW had at it's launch. I would have thought WoW would be an at launch bar that many titles would have surpassed by now. In a number of key areas, it just hasn't happened. (Some titles get a few things very right, only to ruin the title with some very big flaws).

In the end, though, each individual is justified in setting what ever personal standards they want when deciding if a game warrants a purchase or an ongoing subscription. It's up to the developers to make a game that meets enough expectations to provide a large, long term success. It's not up to fans to lower their standards and settle for mediocrity! 

Yes, Aion and any other games launching should be compared to Wow at launch, not 5 years later.

There is no way any company could afford to put in as much money in a game as Blizzard did before launch and after, we are talking about more than 10 years here, I think it is 13 years since they started developing it.

What should be compared is instead the fun factor. If the new game is as fun the players will come and the content will be filled in later. If however the game has very little content like AoC it will drag down the fun factor.

Lets face it, we only play because it is fun (at least normal person, others do it of psychological reasons). If a game is to beat Wow it needs to be more fun for as many people. And it needs to be fun on a longteerm basis.

Some games like WAR is really fun for 3 weeks or so but gets boring fast after that. A game like that could never be the next big game either.

Can Aion be the next big game? I don't really know but I doubt it. My guess is still Guildwars 2.

I don't agree.  Perhaps you can make the comparison to how much content a game had at launch vs. what Aion has at launch but not game mechanics.  MMO design moves foward and it's criminal if you're not incorporating things that over time have become standard in MMO's.  As a game that has come out 5 years after WoW, it should have more than WoW had at launch.  Do you think WoW had more at launch then EQ did in 1999? 

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by Horusra

I so not think asian grind is a stupid reason not to like the game.  That is a rather specific play style that many people do not like.

 

It is a stupid reason because anyone who's played the game will tell you it's no more grindy than any other fantasy MMO out there.

It's a rather specific clueless reason you mean.

Aion has a grind, it is just closer to the end game, north american players are just weak. They wan to be the best witout actually putting in the effort. The Koreans have been playing th game for a year already, no issues, but as soon as the game comes over here apperently it will fail without the might american fan base.

These people need to get real, Aion is a great game, if you say it isnt you havent played it, and if you played it and still say it isnt, you have no idea what a great game is, and wouldnt if it bit you in the ass. Compare aions beta to everything released after WoW, sure it had lag and connection issues, that was the point of open beta also known as a fucking stress test which had so many morons talking about quitting. But it was not only extremly polished, for being a beta game, it was smooth, the graphics are amazing and look amazing even on extremly low end computers. The combat system is familar with new elements like the chain skill system and yes, the stigmas which is a stolen concept from guild wars which makes it that much more interesting,

The mounts arent in game yet, but the devs already said they are going to implement them, and they wont be mounts, but most likely special wings which make the most sense, personally i think a incombat out of combat flight mode would more then suffice.

The game has every popular western feature, plus some of the great korean ones, like fortress sieges which is basically  like lineage 2 castle system, they also have the open world pvp system, both the auction house and the stall system. A meaningful crafting system, the first game in a long time that made pve,pvp and crafting gear on par with each other, so you dont feel like  a tool for maxing out crafting to find out it is absolutely useless.

Aion isnt for everyone, but please, cut the bullshit, you people trashing the game for some of the stupidest fucking reasons ever need to stop. The sooner you realize that progression in this genre is creating an Improved WoW clone the sooner you will stop expecting a game to shatter the fucking mold when it launches.

THERE WILL NEVER BE A MMO THAT ISNT SIMILAR TO WoW, PERIOD!

It would just be bad business, since WoW is a collection of features that  the MMO community actually love, gotten used too and refuse to do without.

Originally posted by Angier2758

As someone who works in software development (on the managing side)  Why do people expect a *new* game like Aion to have everything WoW has after 4-5 years?

Part of the rhetoric I hear from the anti-aion folks is "Where is this?  Where is that?  Why doesn't Aion have all of this?"

Has anyone considered that it's just not possible at release for this to happen?  You can't have everything you can possibly think up at release... WoW didn't and EQ didn't....

Why?

With that much coding at once you either will have so many bugs and balance issues at launch that the game becomes unplayable... OR you never actually release the game due to never ending QA.

There's a cut off in terms of content versus quality.

If you have some intelligence what you'd look for is a game that has a solid base to start with.  Has anyone said Aion is buggy and unplayable?  Even with gameguard (which I hate) the game is pretty damn solid.

Heck if all you want is the max content why not go back to EQ1?  At a certain point you have to ask yourself if you're willing to try something new.    I'm just getting tired of people listing everything WoW has and expecting a new game to have all that and then some without actually thinking about the actual logistics and devlopment involved.

Content =! Better.

There is a Norman Rockwell illustration for the Saturday Evening Post that depicts an old woman buying meat from a butcher and they are weighing it to determine it's price. In the illustration the woman is gently pushing the scale up to make the price lower while the butcher is gently pushing it down to make it more expensive.
 

I cite this illustration because this is exactly what developers and players are doing, a more advanced way of giving/getting more or less than what they pay for. Though I agree with your opinion, I think you've forgotten that consumers are greedy and are inevitably going to want everything. At the same time I think player greed drives developers to really push themselves into making a steller product.

Originally posted by Angier2758

As someone who works in software development (on the managing side)  Why do people expect a *new* game like Aion to have everything WoW has after 4-5 years?

I'd like to see new games have everything WoW does not. :D

*edit* I respect WoW for what it is and I've had a lot of enjoyment from it on and off over the years, but I yearn for innovation!

So, perhaps my expectations are unrealistic. ;)

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by Horusra

I so not think asian grind is a stupid reason not to like the game.  That is a rather specific play style that many people do not like.

 

It is a stupid reason because anyone who's played the game will tell you it's no more grindy than any other fantasy MMO out there.

It's a rather specific clueless reason you mean.

 

Aion has a grind, it is just closer to the end game, north american players are just weak. They wan to be the best witout actually putting in the effort. The Koreans have been playing th game for a year already, no issues, but as soon as the game comes over here apperently it will fail without the might american fan base.

These people need to get real, Aion is a great game, if you say it isnt you havent played it, and if you played it and still say it isnt, you have no idea what a great game is, and wouldnt if it bit you in the ass. Compare aions beta to everything released after WoW, sure it had lag and connection issues, that was the point of open beta also known as a fucking stress test which had so many morons talking about quitting. But it was not only extremly polished, for being a beta game, it was smooth, the graphics are amazing and look amazing even on extremly low end computers. The combat system is familar with new elements like the chain skill system and yes, the stigmas which is a stolen concept from guild wars which makes it that much more interesting,

The mounts arent in game yet, but the devs already said they are going to implement them, and they wont be mounts, but most likely special wings which make the most sense, personally i think a incombat out of combat flight mode would more then suffice.

The game has every popular western feature, plus some of the great korean ones, like fortress sieges which is basically  like lineage 2 castle system, they also have the open world pvp system, both the auction house and the stall system. A meaningful crafting system, the first game in a long time that made pve,pvp and crafting gear on par with each other, so you dont feel like  a tool for maxing out crafting to find out it is absolutely useless.

 

Aion isnt for everyone, but please, cut the bullshit, you people trashing the game for some of the stupidest fucking reasons ever need to stop. The sooner you realize that progression in this genre is creating an Improved WoW clone the sooner you will stop expecting a game to shatter the fucking mold when it launches.

 

THERE WILL NEVER BE A MMO THAT ISNT SIMILAR TO WoW, PERIOD!

It would just be bad business, since WoW is a collection of features that  the MMO community actually love, gotten used too and refuse to do without.

LOL what he said,on the crafting side I freaking love how crafting can crit.Mounts were actually said to be a separate entity so unlikely it would be a wing