Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

Cool story bro!

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

I personally do not think they are superior.  I enjoyed EQ for a long while, however this was because i had the most real life friends playing.  The reason i enjoyed Wow for the length of time i did, was because of my friends that were playing.  I think its now much easier for MMO's to loose its multimass because content is solo driven.  Its hard for groups of friends / guilds to really level together because its mostly quest driven. 

I will be playing Aion for as long as my friends do, soon as they get sick of it and move on, im sure i will be right behind them.  Ive just personally found any mmo ive played is only as good as my friends and I have made it.  Its rather hard for me to make friends over the internet that's my own downfall.

I personally have grown quite tired of the forced grouping and raiding aspect of mmo's.

If i had my wish, there would be an Everquest-like game in size and scope for offline play.

The games are great, it's just the people that have changed and soured the milk.

Originally posted by brucie

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

 

I personally do not think they are superior.  I enjoyed EQ for a long while, however this was because i had the most real life friends playing.  The reason i enjoyed Wow for the length of time i did, was because of my friends that were playing.  I think its now much easier for MMO's to loose its multimass because content is solo driven.  Its hard for groups of friends / guilds to really level together because its mostly quest driven. 

I will be playing Aion for as long as my friends do, soon as they get sick of it and move on, im sure i will be right behind them.  Ive just personally found any mmo ive played is only as good as my friends and I have made it.  Its rather hard for me to make friends over the internet that's my own downfall.

did you see the new eq you can go to classic everquest trou an old gizzer 

what made me crack up was the fact he sounded like veterant everquest player

OH IN MY DAYS WE DIDNT HAVE IT EASY BLABLA BLA AND HE INVITE YOU TO A JOURNEY IN HIS SHOES LOL)PROBABLY DAY ONE OF EVERQUEST)

that is so cool

What made the original release of EQ so much better than most anything today was the people. It was a much different mindset than you see now.

It was a true sea of people tossed into the mix, making friends, making allies and making enemies. It was simple, the people's ideals of fun were simple.

Somewhere along the line the game became more of a chore than a hobby.

Sure thing EQ classic was far from perfect. I coulnd't stand the camping. A group sitting on a safe spot and then the puller bringing the mobs. I remember I was praying for someone to make a mistake to have some fun.

But the mechanics of the game, corpse run, weight, factions, kos, free combat, no map, no radar, no minimap, etc etc etc it's something no modern MMO has been able/dared to get even close to.

I think a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. Playing an MMORPG for the first time is a very special feeling. Almost overwhelming, knowing that every person you meet is a real person. A new player and a person who experienced an MMORPG before approach a new mmorpg in very different ways.To a person who never played an mmorpg before, an mmo might seem like an experience with endless possibilities and no limits. You probably have no idea what kind of things can be done in the game and you just pick the class that sounds fun to you, having no idea what "tank" or "dps" means. you just explore the world and try different things to discover more of the game, all while being impressed you're part of a world with thousands of real players.

The experienced mmorpg player on the other hand will first visit multiple websites to check the skills to pick a class, plan skill tree if necessary, log into the game and looking for his first quest, wondering when he is going to get his first skill and if he gets more XP by going solo or grouping up.

That's why a lot of players play really bad games such as Runescape and Tibia. That's not because these games are oh so amazing, they do so because they still have that "magic feeling" of playing an mmorpg for the first time.

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

Thanks for the update!

I have to say that while I'm all for solo play, the reason MMOs were established is so that we the community could have a place to enjoy games with our friends. Teamwork is a fundamental aspect in the MMO genre, and for someone to suggest that it is a dying trend; that they'd rather have a single player concept on the same scale as an MMO, then I say to you go enjoy Morrowind or Fallout 3.

I, for one, found that Fallout 3 was a tad boring, mainly because I'm an MMO type, and it doesn't offer anything to that extent.

Originally posted by altairzq

But the mechanics of the game, corpse run, weight, factions, kos, free combat, no map, no radar, no minimap, etc etc etc it's something no modern MMO has been able/dared to get even close to.

Yeah.  Things like running your inky necro from one side of the world to the other at level 8; that's the kind of MMO experience that you don't forget. :)  It was pretty intense for all of the right reasons.  There was constant danger from both mobs and NPCs, and I had only a general idea of which way to go.  Got lost a couple of times, especially in High Pass Hold..

..but anyway, I digress.  Agreed.  The camping sucked and I eventually gave up on the grind (around level 61), but original EQ had some real magic.

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

Great story.

I almost understood what you were trying to say.

Thanks for stopping by.

Originally posted by Gameloading

I think a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. Playing an MMORPG for the first time is a very special feeling. Almost overwhelming, knowing that every person you meet is a real person. A new player and a person who experienced an MMORPG before approach a new mmorpg in very different ways.To a person who never played an mmorpg before, an mmo might seem like an experience with endless possibilities and no limits. You probably have no idea what kind of things can be done in the game and you just pick the class that sounds fun to you, having no idea what "tank" or "dps" means. you just explore the world and try different things to discover more of the game, all while being impressed you're part of a world with thousands of real players.

The experienced mmorpg player on the other hand will first visit multiple websites to check the skills to pick a class, plan skill tree if necessary, log into the game and looking for his first quest, wondering when he is going to get his first skill and if he gets more XP by going solo or grouping up.

That's why a lot of players play really bad games such as Runescape and Tibia. That's not because these games are oh so amazing, they do so because they still have that "magic feeling" of playing an mmorpg for the first time.

+1

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

The strenght of old school games was creating socialization due to lack of instant gratification, and mechanics enforcing grouping: getting to know other people was simply the most interesting thing to do in those games, as the act of lvling was boring and painful.

Modern MMO have better mechanics, but less socialization, making burn outs much more frequent; people who call themselves "friends" in WoW simpy don't understand the true meaning of that word.

The key to the future of MMO is not to give soloers any advantage: they can solo, but grouping is MUCH more rewarding, that should be the philosophy.

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

No, this is not the case (at least not for most).  What folks remember is "freedom", "challenge", "mysterious world", and "penalties for sloppy play".  All of this was very immersive and fun, and subsequently missing in modern MMO's.

What modern MMO's do have is polish and graphics, since EQ and UO have never really updated themselves in those areas.  Also, ANY game world gets old after awhile.

I guarantee you, that if a new game comes out with the old school elements of "freedom", "challenge", "mysterious world", and "penalties for sloppy play", that folks will be all over it.  We just need these ingredients in a new  and well-polished game.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

 

No, this is not the case (at least not for most).  What folks remember is "freedom", "challenge", "mysterious world", and "penalties for sloppy play".  All of this was very immersive and fun, and subsequently missing in modern MMO's.

What modern MMO's do have is polish and graphics, since EQ and UO have never really updated themselves in those areas.  Also, ANY game world gets old after awhile.

I guarantee you, that if a new game comes out with the old school elements of "freedom", "challenge", "mysterious world", and "penalties for sloppy play", that folks will be all over it.  We just need these ingredients in a new  and well-polished game.

 

this...

and if they wold stop worrying about the dollar so much

Originally posted by Gameloading

I think a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. Playing an MMORPG for the first time is a very special feeling. Almost overwhelming, knowing that every person you meet is a real person. A new player and a person who experienced an MMORPG before approach a new mmorpg in very different ways.To a person who never played an mmorpg before, an mmo might seem like an experience with endless possibilities and no limits. You probably have no idea what kind of things can be done in the game and you just pick the class that sounds fun to you, having no idea what "tank" or "dps" means. you just explore the world and try different things to discover more of the game, all while being impressed you're part of a world with thousands of real players.

The experienced mmorpg player on the other hand will first visit multiple websites to check the skills to pick a class, plan skill tree if necessary, log into the game and looking for his first quest, wondering when he is going to get his first skill and if he gets more XP by going solo or grouping up.

That's why a lot of players play really bad games such as Runescape and Tibia. That's not because these games are oh so amazing, they do so because they still have that "magic feeling" of playing an mmorpg for the first time.

I second this.

Every new game has a little bit of that magic, discovering the possibilities. After a while you had mapped everything on your mind.

The first time someone plays a multiplayer game, an online game and a MMORPG have a huge chunk of that "magic", but it seems like we got addicted to it instantly and we simply cant get our daily dose of it anymore. What we get doesnt seem to satisfy. We can only get that in completelly new games, for a while then the high stops and we gather again in some mmorpg community to look for the next mmorpg that will give us that fix.

It seems like the more we play, the less we can get satiated.

Originally posted by pencilrick

I guarantee you, that if a new game comes out with the old school elements of "freedom", "challenge", "mysterious world", and "penalties for sloppy play", that folks will be all over it.  We just need these ingredients in a new  and well-polished game.

 

Challenge, sure.  If a game comes out where players of all skills have appropriate challenges, that's going to be more popular than WOW (which has very little challenging content nowadays.)

Freedom, sure.  Many players value open world gameplay. It's not for everyone, but it's a stimulation lacking in many modern MMORPGs.

Mysterious world is a given.  The whole point of playing a new game is finding new gameplay patterns within; discovery and learning is why people play games.

Penalties, sure...as long as you only mean the bare minimum of penalties required for gameplay.  Having the party wipe and respawning closer to the entrance with 5-10 mins worth of mobs respawning in front of you?  Great, that's a penalty you don't want to have to suffer through unnecessarily, but involves fun gameplay.   Having your party wipe and losing 2+ hours of gameplay due to XP, Gold, etc (or performing lengthy corpse runs)?  Unnecessarily harsh penalty. 

Originally posted by Interesting

Originally posted by Gameloading

I think a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. Playing an MMORPG for the first time is a very special feeling. Almost overwhelming, knowing that every person you meet is a real person. A new player and a person who experienced an MMORPG before approach a new mmorpg in very different ways.To a person who never played an mmorpg before, an mmo might seem like an experience with endless possibilities and no limits. You probably have no idea what kind of things can be done in the game and you just pick the class that sounds fun to you, having no idea what "tank" or "dps" means. you just explore the world and try different things to discover more of the game, all while being impressed you're part of a world with thousands of real players.

The experienced mmorpg player on the other hand will first visit multiple websites to check the skills to pick a class, plan skill tree if necessary, log into the game and looking for his first quest, wondering when he is going to get his first skill and if he gets more XP by going solo or grouping up.

That's why a lot of players play really bad games such as Runescape and Tibia. That's not because these games are oh so amazing, they do so because they still have that "magic feeling" of playing an mmorpg for the first time.

 

I second this.

Every new game has a little bit of that magic, discovering the possibilities. After a while you had mapped everything on your mind.

 

The first time someone plays a multiplayer game, an online game and a MMORPG have a huge chunk of that "magic", but it seems like we got addicted to it instantly and we simply cant get our daily dose of it anymore. What we get doesnt seem to satisfy. We can only get that in completelly new games, for a while then the high stops and we gather again in some mmorpg community to look for the next mmorpg that will give us that fix.

It seems like the more we play, the less we can get satiated.

Nope. True our first kiss was with a pretty girl. But the girls we get now are uglier. You can say all you want about nostalgia and first kiss. Our first girl was way prettier than the ones around now. And this is an objective fact, Any EQ Classic player could write here a long list of features and situations that arouse from those features that are unseen in modern MMOs.

edit: and Runescape, at least when I played it with the 2D characters, had quests that'd put modern MMOs to shame. And it wasn't my first MMO of course.

So.....What is it us EQ or UO vets should know again?

What a strange post.

UO and EQ were great games, while not as appealing anymore (due to older graphics).

These games gave people worlds to explore and live in. Only a handful of small indy titles have tried to dublicated the feeling people had with those games.

If we didnt have the odd sandbox here and there this genre would be next to worthless.

Originally posted by altairzq

Sure thing EQ classic was far from perfect. I coulnd't stand the camping. A group sitting on a safe spot and then the puller bringing the mobs. I remember I was praying for someone to make a mistake to have some fun.

But the mechanics of the game, corpse run, weight, factions, kos, free combat, no map, no radar, no minimap, etc etc etc it's something no modern MMO has been able/dared to get even close to.

yep you crossed your finger your buddy knew where he was going because if he didnt 

it was goodbuy for that adventure and welcome to another completly unforseen adventure 

and with the old drinker in eq now giving you a chance to prove your self in classic everquest and that fact eq is one of the only game that play smoothly on netbook make it a very nice game

Originally posted by Gintoh

       Everyday I come on here and here some guy talking about how superior UO or EQ is then modern mmo's and they are, but it looks better all these years afterwards. The fact is NO mmo has ever been what the genre should and easily could be. I think people like the idea of mmo's, not mmo's.

So what is it the EQ/UO community should know about MMOs?

What that MMOs should be soloable like most newer MMOs? That the game is about the loot/gold/level? That MMOs are not about the community or the RP? UO/EQ players will tell you MMOs are about grouping/community and the loot was usually and exciting bonus.

You are right...no MMO has ever been what the genre should or could be....but UO and EQ were the closest thing to what it should be. Since then we have been spiraling towards single player games with a monthly sub.

The core design of UO was far superior to anything after it.  EQ core design was easier for the masses to understand and has since been copied.  Too bad. :(

Originally posted by tillamook

Cool story bro!

This.

Also, the Game.