I've been looking into a good sandbox MMO and have narrowed it down to these two. I just have a few questions for those that play them:

How is the population in both games?

In Darkfall, has character progression REALLY been nerfed to the extent that you can get to 100 in most skills in a month?

That's about it. Otherwise, I like the features they offer and all of that, it's just the population and DFs little issue.

Thanks for the help,

 - Eric 

Darkfall isn't a good sandbox mmo. Go with Ryzom.

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

I'm quite happy with EVE, I just want a game where I can see an actual body :P

If you don't think of them as sandbox games, just replace every time I say "Sandbox" with "Not sandbox".

Originally posted by Gdemami

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

In the immortal words of Public Enemy... Don't believe the hype.

They are all sandbox games. If you like PvP, go Darkfall. If you don't, go Ryzhom.

Ryzom you can try for free I believe. Give it a shot.

Originally posted by TacBoy

Originally posted by Gdemami

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

 

In the immortal words of Public Enemy... Don't believe the hype.

 

They are all sandbox games. If you like PvP, go Darkfall. If you don't, go Ryzhom.

 

Ryzom you can try for free I believe. Give it a shot.

That's why I as aiming for DF over Ryzom, I like the sound of the teamwork PvP it offers, but if I really can max out my character stats in a month (without macroing/bloodwalling) I don't think I like the sound of it anymore :P . And if it doesn't have a sufficent population to hold the PvP up.

I really want to make sure I like DF too, before throwing 50 dollars at it, is there a trial system anywhere?

No trial on DF

the North American server has a thriving population. Only damage skills can be maxed out in a month (no crafting, gathering, buff skills, attributes etc etc etc). And the one month thing is only doable if you powerlevel all the time and have the clan feed you with money/spell regeants.

So the normal player will not max out in much in 1 month.

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Originally posted by nickelpat

I'm quite happy with EVE, I just want a game where I can see an actual body :P
If you don't think of them as sandbox games, just replace every time I say "Sandbox" with "Not sandbox".

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That makes no sense. If you say you look for a sandbox, to me it means you have some expectations about gameplay, design and game mechanics, expectations that can't be met with Darkfall nor Ryzom.

Don't use the term when you don't mean it. Using proper words to express yourself is essential for communication.

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Originally posted by TacBoy

In the immortal words of Public Enemy... Don't believe the hype.

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Agreed.
To say 'Darkfall is sandbox' is a hype.
To say 'Ryzom is sandbox' is a mistake.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by nickelpat

I'm quite happy with EVE, I just want a game where I can see an actual body :P
If you don't think of them as sandbox games, just replace every time I say "Sandbox" with "Not sandbox".

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That makes no sense. If you say you look for a sandbox, to me it means you have some expectations about gameplay, design and game mechanics, expectations that can't be met with Darkfall nor Ryzom.

Don't use the term when you don't mean it. Using proper words to express yourself is essential for communication.

 

what he means is he doesn't care how 'you' define sandbox. He knows what he wants and he doesn't want to get into an argument with you over exactly what a sandbox is. he is happy enough to see Darkfall as a sandbox as are many other players. Your argument over what a sandbox is is pointless and has no real importance in the conversation over which of the two games he talked about he should play.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by nickelpat

I'm quite happy with EVE, I just want a game where I can see an actual body :P
If you don't think of them as sandbox games, just replace every time I say "Sandbox" with "Not sandbox".

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That makes no sense. If you say you look for a sandbox, to me it means you have some expectations about gameplay, design and game mechanics, expectations that can't be met with Darkfall nor Ryzom.

Don't use the term when you don't mean it. Using proper words to express yourself is essential for communication.

 

Well I was actually trying to politely say "Frankly, I don't care good sir. I already labelled them as two games I had interest  in and are generally accepted as sandbox games. I know the meaning is disputed but this thread is not for that. Please, answer the question I asked, as this is why I made the thread. Not go pulling it off topic. Thank You."

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Originally posted by kazamx
He knows what he wants

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He does but how are we supposed to know?

He did not gave out any guidance apart from 'looking for good sandbox MMO'.

I do not want to start a discussion about sandbox definition even though it might be at place since it is matter of subject.
It seems it would be more helpfull to describe better what he is expecting from the game. What features, concept, content or mechanics he prefers.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by kazamx
He knows what he wants

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He does but how are we supposed to know?

He did not gave out any guidance apart from 'looking for good sandbox MMO'.

Did you read the title of the thread? He was quite specific over what sort of game he wanted. It was either Darkfall or Ryzom. Its clear that he considers each a sandbox game.

All he wanted was opinions on those two games and their merits. The sanbox comment wasn't important. He just wants to know about which of those two games people think are best.

I have never played Ryzom so can't comment on that game. As for Darkfall. Darkfall is typical of most MMOs at launch. It has a lack of toys in the sandbox, it has a bunch of bugs and a number of game mechanics not really working that well.

People always moan about how games patches are too slow. There is zero chance people will ever be happy with the rate of development. Darkfall has had a good number of patches.

To start with they started by closing a number of easy exploits. (acid pool etc.) They also fixed methods people were using to level too quickly such as skiling weapons using noob weapons and on shielded players. They stopped people skillling up by shooting into the air and a whole raft of other little exploits.

They have slowly been improving AI and Bugging out mobs, although neither is complete. They rebalanced PVE and started to tidy the UI up. Once many of the problems were fixed they were able to start adding new content and/or content not available at launch.

In the most recent patch they pretty much fixed magic. The problem is they didn't fix archery and melee at the same time, although they did make clear they would be fixed in the expansion a month later. The next expansion looks like it will make ships more useful improve housing and add a few new things players have been asking for like player shops and caravans.

Darkfall is a far from perfect game. but it has come a hell of a lang way. Compared to a game like Warhammer darkfall is moving constantly in the right direction much faster.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

Shut you Pie hole.

Eve, Ultima online, Mortal online (in beta)

Those are the only sand box mmos worth a damn DFO is laughable my friend its not a sandbox at all.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by kazamx
He knows what he wants

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He does but how are we supposed to know?

He did not gave out any guidance apart from 'looking for good sandbox MMO'.

I do not want to start a discussion about sandbox definition even though it might be at place since it is matter of subject.
It seems it would be more helpfull to describe better what he is expecting from the game. What features, concept, content or mechanics he prefers.

Okay, I want an open world that has reason to explore and has some interesting stuff to explore for. I want PvP that actually feels like I accomplished something when I kill someone else. I want crafting that also means something, a game where I can take multiple courses, not just combat. In the end, I want a world, I know there's something.

Ryzom and Darkfall caught my attention, I played Ryzom at one point and loved the crafting and the combat, I found the world interesting and with the resources it gave me a reason to explore.

Darkfall caught me with the harsh PvP and open world and heard that it could be possible to be only a crafter if you wanted.

Originally posted by nickelpat

Darkfall caught me with the harsh PvP and open world and heard that it could be possible to be only a crafter if you wanted.

Darkfall is pretty much only PvP for the majority of people at the moment. Crafting is something people do when they are between fights or skilling up. The recent magic patch has people skilling up outside of cities now and that has caused an increase in pvp.

Some alliances have tried being pure trading but it hasn't really worked as darkfall didn't player run AH or player run shops. However the expansion that comes in October could change the world MASSIVELY, with the introduction of player run shops Darkfall will develop a real economy. You will be able to go into a city and find pretty much anything you want to buy ad sell anything you want to sell without having to do it through trade channels.

If you want to be a pure crafter I would say wait until we know exactly how player vendors and caravans will work

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Originally posted by nickelpat
Okay, I want an open world that has reason to explore and has some interesting stuff to explore for. I want PvP that actually feels like I accomplished something when I kill someone else. I want crafting that also means something, a game where I can take multiple courses, not just combat. In the end, I want a world, I know there's something.
Ryzom and Darkfall caught my attention, I played Ryzom at one point and loved the crafting and the combat, I found the world interesting and with the resources it gave me a reason to explore.
Darkfall caught me with the harsh PvP and open world and heard that it could be possible to be only a crafter if you wanted.

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I would say you will be better off with Ryzom. It is 'short' on PVP part, but the world is rich and well done. The game got some unique features and feels refreshing. Crafting is...well, at least a bit different than in most MMOs.

Darkfall has nothing else to offer but harshness of 'real-like' combat with FFA PVP, imo. As it is now, it is a FPS game basicaly.

Originally posted by krieblood

Originally posted by Gdemami

Darkfall nor Ryzom are sandbox games.

If you look for sandbox, only MMO that can be considered is EVE Online.

 

Shut you Pie hole.

Eve, Ultima online, Mortal online (in beta)

Those are the only sand box mmos worth a damn DFO is laughable my friend its not a sandbox at all.

I really dont think you should be praising MO at this moment in time ;)

Darkfall's community is most likely the worst one of any MMO, and ryzom's most likely the best. Ryzom dosen't really have much pvp, its more of a thing to do for fun or when your bored while darkfall revolves around pvp. Mortal online which is also pvp focused and a sandbox is in beta right now too, so might check that out too. My personal opinion would be to go with ryzom if your wondering.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Darkfall's community is most likely the worst one of any MMO, and ryzom's most likely the best. Ryzom dosen't really have much pvp, its more of a thing to do for fun or when your bored while darkfall revolves around pvp. Mortal online which is also pvp focused and a sandbox is in beta right now too, so might check that out too. My personal opinion would be to go with ryzom if your wondering.

Is the Ryzom population healthy right now?

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Originally posted by nickelpat

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Originally posted by Gabby-air

Darkfall's community is most likely the worst one of any MMO, and ryzom's most likely the best. Ryzom dosen't really have much pvp, its more of a thing to do for fun or when your bored while darkfall revolves around pvp. Mortal online which is also pvp focused and a sandbox is in beta right now too, so might check that out too. My personal opinion would be to go with ryzom if your wondering.

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Is the Ryzom population healthy right now?

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That depends on your definition of healthy. It has a low population compared to a lot of MMOs, but because everyone's so friendly and helpful it doesn't feel dead. You definitely won't see a ton of people all over the world, but it doesn't feel as empty as VG did.

Out of those two I'd go with Ryzom.   Better crafting, even if the leveling system gets in the way.   You can of course start Ryzom without buying it as well,  though the trial area is a bit "different" than the rest of the game.

Both games are sandbox games. If we are going to debate a "real sandbox" then the only game that would apply is Second life.

I'm going to cover Ryzom since most people here could tell you about DF.

Ryzom, while having GvG territorial (outpost) pvp, a FvF system and FFA pvp zones the game is more of a focused pve game. Gathering, crafting, Boss hunts, player run events and Kitin Lair raids are king in this game.

Ryzom's combat is similar to guild wars, you can't jump and when you attack a mob in melee your character will run to the mob. The combat system becomes unique as you mess with the stanza system.  The stanza system is basically a spell and ability customization system it lets you take a power strike and add a bleed, increase damage and even add accuracy to it. As a caster you can take a Acid bolt spell, increase range, damage, add a AoE and even a Dot effect to the spell. It really is amazing. No two people have the same type of spell or ability.

Ryzom has a massive world, it takes near forever to explore and is really hardcore (its a group focused world). The mob AI runs on this predator/prey system where animals will travel in herds, animals will hunt the packs and each mob acts differently to you depending on that particular situation. Mobs also follow weather and season effects and arent just static in the game world.

The crafting in Ryzom is just awesome, lets just say you can mess with stats and bonuses on gear, change quality and color. Ryzoms crafting isn't some simple knode placement system that never changes. In this game we use the prospecting system its an ability that lets us track deposits underground and the placement changes every season so it never gets boring to harvest.

If your into pve we have Large boss raids, small boss hunts, Events, Lairs (large non-instanced areas with thousands of mobs that could kick ur ass with a boss in the middle).

I'm sure im missing something, We have mounts that you actually have to feed, pack mules, apartments and more.

Dude I could go on and on.

Personally I play both games on and off while staying subbed to Eve fulltime. All three games are totally different from one another.

Anyone who says DF, Eve or Ryzom arent sandbox games are complete fools. All of these games give you freedom to craft a character however you want, have large worlds and have a major crafting focus.

Addition: As for population Ryzom has three servers each one covers a particular language. I find the games population alittle low but the quality of people playing this game are second to none.

I would say around 5-15k players subbed which is decent for such an Indy game. I believe DF has around 10-15k across two servers so its a same basically.

More Ryzom info: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/katriell

Darkfall is sandbox! you can do anything you want!*

*If all you want to do is pvp