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ITs funny to read post saying that darkfall is not a sandbox. So i want to hear from them, why do they think darkfall is not a sandbox. A sandbox mmorpg for me is a game where anyone that play are in the same world. Once you login, you cannot be separate from the other login players. Meaning that a sandbox have 0 instances. Its a world where you have the freedom to do anything you want, go anywhere you want and nothing will stop you. You are free to do anything you want in DF so its a sandbox. What they should say to look less stupid then saying that darkfall is not a sandbox is simply saying that darkfall is not like the old UO or the old AC or the old SB or the old SWG and other old sandbox. Darkfall is his own game like no other, but it still an mmorpg sandbox. Comparason: GTA 4 online on free mode is a sandbox game. Why? There is no instance. You can travel in the whole world while the others stay in liberty city killing each others., but you are still active on the map with them. You can do anything you want and nothing stop you from doing it. You use the tools added on the sandbox freely. What is the different between gta 4 free mode online and darfkall online? Darkfall online have more feature then GTA 4 free mode. Thats all. Does it make GTA 4 free mode being less sandbox then darkfall? No. Its just more limited then darkfall. Thats it. Then, you have those coming in other threads saying that lineage is a sandbox, FFX1 is a sandbox. OMG. Games like DF is a single world. A single sandbox. You login, there is no login screen that will make you go away from other online players. In theme park mmorpg, they have lvl. LVL sometime are use to like (You have to be lvl 50 to equip that. LVL 70 to do that raid. LVL 80 to pvp with the other lvl 80 players. and others.) So theme park are not sandbox games. Because they have a style of sandbox that is reserved for those who earned that rank already. In darkfall, from day one, you can go anywhere you want in the world. Only pkers that road on the sandbox will kill you and you will have to get spawned back to your latest spawn stone that you clicked on.
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egotrip
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/24/08
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. |
Not this sh!t again..........
there are more posts discussing Darkfall than there are people actually playing the useless game |
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well judgeing by your definition of what a sandobx is darkfall isn't one. |
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I'll bite. Bear in mind that I grew up on SWG and moved on the play EvE so that is where my opinion comes from. One thing both of these games have are tools and freedom. In SWG, I could build my house anywhere that the terrain allowed. My player association could build their city wherever the terrain allowed and, based on the territory of the city, "own" the resources that spawned within its limits. You still need capably association members to harvest those resources, but you essentially had rights to them. EvE is a little more restricted in placement of structures as, to my knowledge, you can't just anchor out in some open space, but instead need an orbit to anchor in (someone can correct me here if I am mistaken). I guess you could see this as a terrain limitation like you would have in SWG to some extent. On the other hand, I think EvE excels in making tools available to players. Things as simple as the concord billboards, present at jump gates, bringing reports of various player conflicts, really add to the idea that you are all in one universe and strengthen the political aspects present in the game. Things like the contract system encourage different play types to interact as well. For example, someone who spent their time training for a Battleship, might not have the capacity to move a lot of cargo and thus contract the courier work out to someone who trained Industrials or Freighters. Ultimately, both games facilitate, and encourage an interdependance, on different play styles. I can survive, have fun, and be successful, in either game without ever firing a shot at another player if I chose to. DF is getting there, I think, with the various patches they are putting out, but as of right now, I think it would only satisfy some of the most flexible definitions of "sandbox". That's my opinion though...your mileage may vary. -mklinic "There's a point I think we're missing. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRpMHvcKCEw
This will explain what a proper sandbox is, to me Darkfall is just a pvp play ground not a proper sandbox... |
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
"In EVE, no one gives a damn about a fair fight." - chafin |
Since there is no universally accepted definition of what constitutes a sandbox game, people frequently look for functionality or tools that DF lacks and use them as examples as to why its not a proper sandbox. Some people feel that because its not really possible to pursue a crafting/merchant/exploring career and avoid skill training for the PVP aspects of the game such a limitation. Others think the game needs to have player housing, viable and thriving economy/trade between players before it can be a sandbox. I'm sure there are more, but you get the point. Every MMO, from WOW to UO and everything in between have sandbox like elements/tools. Some just have them more than others, and at some tipping point (which is different for every player) a game is considered to be a sandbox rather than a theme park.
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon EVE Cult member since May 2007 Regarding EVE: "To be honest, I think God himself created this game." - Shek Regarding new players in EVE: "Think of yourself as a child released into a park full of pedophiles..." - Eleazaros |
Originally posted by ozy1
Before i start the video, i have one question. So if darkfall is a 1 huge battle ground, why cant it still be a sandbox at the same time when its only 1 huge BG. 1 world that you always log on. The only place to respawn, the place where you can do anything, go anywhere. Edit, i saw the video. Darkfall and eve have many same common stuff. They are both in 1 sandbox with no other realms to get aways from other players in the world. How many time Eve was release to get the time to get all that? DF, only 7 months. Many player keep supported eve and to made it how it is today. Darkfall will drain our money and do big stuff in their sandbox too. Dont also forget that darkfall is a paid beta. So the stuff you showed on the eve video, you dont know if it will be added one day in darkfall. Both eve and DF are sandbox, but Eve just got more tools/feature in his sandbox. Thats it. If you put your kid in the sandbox with no tools, he is still in a sandbox. Final question, how big Eve is? How many players can play at the same time in one server? How many players can fight at the same place without lagging or server crash? |
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Breaking news: Solo combat PVP is dead in EVE Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UkH0ylw7Io
Darkfall still have that solo pvp. Does it make Eve less sandbox or darkfall less sandbox because it lack something that eve have and the opposite? NO. they are both sandbox equaly. 1 sandbox world. No other realms and you can do anything you want, go anywhere you want no matter what. This is my definition of a sandbox game. Not the comparason of a sandbox to an other sandbox game. |
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Sandbox is when there is just one world for everyone and when there is no classes and levels restricting the content and having to undergo a linear progression to participate it. -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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there are pure crafters in Darkfall and it is possible to be successful and profitable (although not for a good long time) from being a pure crafter but it is very competitive since only a few people can make the top end gear. Lord Tenebrion probably the most prevalent example. |
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Originally posted by Realbigdeal
That directly contradicts the message most often repeated for DF. That being "you need to join a clan to really experience politics/pvp/other-fun-thing". Solo PvP in EvE seems about as viable as solo PvP in DF. Sure, you can do it, have some success, but it's best when done with others. In my experience, solo PvP doesn't seem so dead in EvE when it comes to Wormholes and I've seen it some in lowsec. Haven't gotten out to nullsec much recently so I cannot speak for that, but imagine it is mostly gangs out there. As far as one realm, doesn't DF have NA1 and EU1 and wouldn't those be different realms? For EvE I just get either the live server or the test server. Again, I could be off on this, so others can feel free to correct me. As far as your other question about how many people online at a time, I believe EvE's record is a little over 51k users logged in at once. Not sure of max battle size so far. I've heard significant numbers thrown around, but don't really have a source I can point to, so I'll let someone else answer that one. edit: corrected the "logged on users" amount and link: ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/44661/EVE-Online-Breaks-Peak-Concurrent-User-Record -mklinic "There's a point I think we're missing. |
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Originally posted by Realbigdeal
i agree with you but this forum is full of troll ..... |
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Originally posted by Realbigdeal
Well what if i want to go farm some wood and build a cabin in a remote area to make my own spells and potions in peace. Oh thats right the only thing sandbox about this game isa open empty world to run aroudn it and you can only place a house on a object in a single location...... And this "sandbox" dosnt have the tools of making your own spells..... Ohhhhhhhh..... yeah so what is sandbox? FFAPVP in a open world? thats it? i find "Anything" at least in my mind to consist of a little more then a crappy crafting system, harvesting, and FFAPVP.. Thats a very limited anything unless you enjoy long naked stroles in the woods YAY. oh yeah and Universal banks thats so sandbox no merchant caravans so no bandits WoW great content. Darkfall < Mortal online Mortal Online/EarthRise/Project V13 |
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You are mistaken couple of terms here - freedom of action, freedom of movement, open-end game and sandbox. The answer why Darkfall is not a sandbox is simple - it is linear. Q: What is the goal of the game? End of the story. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe one day they will make it something more but until then, it is a MMO like any other just with FFA PVP... |
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God almighty, this horse has been beaten beyond a bloody pulp. It's pointless to argue this anymore. Each and everyone here will present a definition of sandbox, and won't budge a nanometer from it. I've commented extensively about this in the past so, if you are interested, check my posting history. I'll gladly comment, then. All I say is: sandbox games are NOT simply non-instanced, open worlds. Sandboxes give real options, real individualization, real player-driven content, and do not funnel everyone into the same mould. |
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Just because you allow everyone to have every ability in game doesn't make it a sandbox. DF doesn't use a skill system, it uses an ability system. You level one ability in order to get a new ability. It has one class. The warrriorarchermage. Everyone starts in exactly the same way. With a leafblade. That's linear. You are restricted to were you have a house. You can't build a house, and not everyone can have a house. City building is restricted. Were you can place assets is predetermined. That's linear. The only thing sandboxy about the game is that you can learn every ability. |
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indiramourn
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/13/05
MMOs require more reasoning and imagination than most stereotypically ''adult'' activities. |
Originally posted by Kyleran
I think whether a game is a so called sandbox game or not is determined more by how you play it and less by it's features/mechanics. In the right guild's hands, even a game that most people would consider to be the ultimate "themepark"--how I lothe that word--game could be made very sandboxy, with guild created events, hunts, craftsmen, contests, etc. What I am getting as it that I think Sandbox is more of a verb than a noun. |
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Kyleran
Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
"In EVE, no one gives a damn about a fair fight." - chafin |
Originally posted by indiramourn
I think whether a game is a so called sandbox game or not is determined more by how you play it and less by it's features/mechanics. In the right guild's hands, even a game that most people would consider to be the ultimate "themepark"--how I lothe that word--game could be made very sandboxy, with guild created events, hunts, craftsmen, contests, etc. What I am getting as it that I think Sandbox is more of a verb than a noun.
Excellent observation, you are correct, it is a better verb than a noun, and resolves some of the debate. "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon EVE Cult member since May 2007 Regarding EVE: "To be honest, I think God himself created this game." - Shek Regarding new players in EVE: "Think of yourself as a child released into a park full of pedophiles..." - Eleazaros |
Originally posted by indiramourn
I thought we were using it as an adjective....curses! I think joking aside though, even that guild you mention is forced to live within specific constraints. Now, if you were to look at something like SecondLife...I imagine that would be one of the few "true" sandboxes since you can make whatever and go where ever (as far as i can tell). It requires player skill (programming to some extent if you want to make things) too. SecondLife is truly hardcore! :P This isn't meant to debate whether systems like SecondLife or MetaPlace are actually MMOs, but more so a good illustration of the current extremes in player freedom versus the well known extremes as far as linear games. -mklinic "There's a point I think we're missing. |
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Read between the lines of all the people that say its not and you will see: "I hate the game, so its not a sandbox".
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Originally posted by ozy1
Sorry to go off topic but that video makes no sense at all, because the battle would have happened no matter what your decision was. That group was meeting up with the other patrol whether you saved the miner or not, all that changed was your influence in the whole thing. A better scenario would be perhaps that miner was carrying cargo that would have allowed the alliance to build a certain weapon that would have changed the tide of a battle that in turn would have changed the tide of the war. but his example meant nothing. |
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Lets go over the sandbox check list and see why DF isnt a sandbox. 1. DF doesnt have a large world with no instances that I could explore..............Oh,thats not right. 2. DF has classes that stick me into one role and force me down a linear path...................... Oh thats WoW. 3 .In DF I Cant have a house or apartment and my guild and alliance cant own parts of the game world and build on it...........Oh shit thats wrong also. 4. Darkfall isnt 90% crafter based like other sandbox games, where forced to farm raid lootz.... Oh crap thats wow again sorry. 5. Darkfall doesn't have regional trade, caravans and a market like most sadnbox games....... Oh wait thats comming in the october expansion right? DF = Sandbox. Please stop the hate already! Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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The video shows how EVE world is live, breathing and plyer-driven. It is about how history is created by your own decisions instead of following story by quests -> sandbox? :) |
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Originally posted by pb1285n
Sorry to go off topic but that video makes no sense at all, because the battle would have happened no matter what your decision was. That group was meeting up with the other patrol whether you saved the miner or not, all that changed was your influence in the whole thing. A better scenario would be perhaps that miner was carrying cargo that would have allowed the alliance to build a certain weapon that would have changed the tide of a battle that in turn would have changed the tide of the war. but his example meant nothing. Some newb actually linked the butterfly effect video? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously I love Eve but that shit can happen in every game. In DF i can save some newb meet up with his friends and later that day maybe fighting with them during a siege and some roaming pvp. Stop all of this bullshit already. Because you dislike a game doesn't mean its any less of a sandbox. Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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