Here is my suggestion for another type of endgame in WOW. Blizzard should made a new specific server with the following specifications:

1. The server should be completely without dungeons, instances, battlegrounds, arenas.

2. The server should be PVP.

3. No leveling on this server. Only characters with level 80 should be allowed to migrate from other servers.

4. The levels of the NPCs should be reduced, so that they would not influence the players in any way.

5. The server should be heavily populated with players all the time. Blizzard should probably make one server for all the players around the world.

Now the big question. What would players do on such a server. They would fight each other. There would be a total war between alliance and horde players.

Some possible scenarios how it would be:

1. Several hundreds alliance players could attack Orgrimmar and try to conquer it. The siege could last for several days.

2. Horde players could try to remake the first war. They could gather 1000 or more horde players in outland just behind the portal. Then they would invade The Blasted lands and they would try to fight themselves through Swamp of Sorrows and Deadwind pass to get to Stormwind. Imagine how epic it would be: 1000 horde players marching through The Blasted lands. On the other side alliance players preparing to defend the Deadwind pass. The campaign could last for several weeks.

3. Alliance players could conquer Dustwallow marsh. Then they would have to defend the borders against horde players who would attack Dustwallow marsh the whole time.

4. In Stranglethorn Vale there could be pure guerrilla war in the jungle between horde and alliance players.

Like in real armies there would be some kind of hierarchical structure of command in alliance and horde forces. Someone would made the strategical and tactical decisions. Probably we would have generals and other officers. There would be also a lot of disagreement between different factions and some factions would probably declare their independence of the main forces. There would be a lot of dynamics inside alliance and horde forces.

I know for myself that I would kill to play on such a server.

Ugh...1000 players meeting another 1000 players? In the same spot? Blizzard's servers blow up at 300 players in the same spot and WoW's engine doesn't help either.
Even if the engine and WoW's main focus wasn't on arena(They did release an Arena Tournament server), I doubt they'd have released something like this.

After a while it will be very boring. Just mindless zerg without much purpose. You do nothing but fight each other all the time.

A game need variety for players to get hook and play continuously...

There's no way the servers or people's comps could handle that many people.  Plus, what you propose is basically an entirely new game and would probably take years to develop.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

There's no way the servers or people's comps could handle that many people.  Plus, what you propose is basically an entirely new game and would probably take years to develop.

Why a new game? You just have to take the dungeons out of WOW and reduce the levels of NPCs. I don't think Blizzard would need years to do that.

 i bet blizzard or any game dev would love to have only one server for pvp say 3 million 

1 server for rp 3 million

1 server hardcore unlimited 3 million

the thing is the techno isnt there yet

and even when microsoft release their new toy next year

wich will raise  the pvp from 100 vs 100 

to 1000 vs 1000  i dont think they can have a 3 million player server yet

My experience with PvP in WoW and Warhammer Online is that most people don't actually enjoy large battle PvP as much as they think they will. Other than the occasional novelty of it, large battles discourage individual skill and achievement - being cc'd and focus fired down in seconds is just not much fun. That's why WoW arenas were so successful, and WAR's RvR lakes were usually empty. The OP is on the right track with one thing, though: just let everyone start at lvl cap in WoW, since most players I know consider the end-game to be the only game they really care about.

might be quite good as a distinct server, would be like a mixture of Planetside and DAoC with it's realm vs realm.

The mechanics of wow combat don't work for 1000 v 1000 anyways.  Running through people voids that a lot.   This sounds more like an RP battle, and besides that, how does someone win or lose?  

If you kill someone, do they stay dead? Do they have to go back to the start?

While your idea is good for world PvP, Blizzard is not know for their servers handling mass zerg warfare very well.

Originally posted by Swanea

The mechanics of wow combat don't work for 1000 v 1000 anyways.  Running through people voids that a lot.   This sounds more like an RP battle, and besides that, how does someone win or lose?  

If you kill someone, do they stay dead? Do they have to go back to the start?

mm lol !ya right !is that why blizzard limited the number of player that could go in wintergrasp?because the mecanic of wow combat dont work in 1000 vs 1000

lol

i tell you one thing!when microsoft release that toy that make 1000 vs 1000 or whatever ms feel safe to go with release it ,if wow put it on their server you will see wintergrasp fight or whereever the coolest place is by then ,you will see 1000 vs 1000

saw an online video about that 

i think ms  use ut game modified by ms non-gamer to test it 

no more lag or rubberbanding 

cant wait for ms to have it ready to ship

(unless they put it only on xbox )probably what will happens lol

Large battles are only fun if you're in a large guild. Otherwise no one is communicating, no one knows whats going on, there is no chain of command or overall strategy. It's not like a pvp mini game where you have to chase flags, a very simple strategy where you don't all need to be on vent and you dont have to all agree on who gives the orders and everyone else stfu.

I think an idea like this can work if we spread out the "sieges and battles". What if zones were controllable and the actual towns in the world can be taken i.e. Horde and Alliance fighting over dominance/control with Ratchet or Tarren Mill all the towns can be up for grabs aside from the capital city and in that case maybe just allow fighting over 1 capital per side (only Stormwind and Orgrimmar can be takable) or 1 capital per side on each of the two main continents (Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor). Other than an epic battle, make them small skirmishes. The towns can be more of an short term goal since they'll be easier to take and the capital city/ies will be a longer term goal and much harder to take. Make the towns fortifiable and require some form of maintenance in terms of having and upgrading NPC units that can protect them via quests/dailies/looting other players whatever.

Originally posted by alecbr

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

There's no way the servers or people's comps could handle that many people.  Plus, what you propose is basically an entirely new game and would probably take years to develop.

 

Why a new game? You just have to take the dungeons out of WOW and reduce the levels of NPCs. I don't think Blizzard would need years to do that.

Unless you expect players to create content and objectives on their own (such as "conquering Orgrimarr"), Blizzard would have to develop them.  I don't think people would spend weeks fighting over Orgimarr for a pretend fight with no actual objectives, rewards or consequences.

The fact is, people can do everything you propose now on pvp servers, but they don't, because there's no point to it.

You're asking the right question: what is WoW without PvE? A big empty shell.

Even though I love PvP, I'd much rather see a true player-driven economy server.

This is a very interesting look at WoW, because the suggestion here is not the norm for the game, and I think it has potential if the details and logistics would be worked out.

My thoughts on this is as follows:

1. PvP in the broader WoW world, as in outside of battlegrounds and arenas carry very little meaning or impact. The contested territories always stay that way, and the players do not have influence over it. The only significance it carries is that once you are in a contested territory, you are automatically flagged on PvP servers.

2. My idea of for the particularly type of endgame as described by the OP would be a combination of Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin. It is like AV because once you capture a town, the town NPCs would be friendly to you and guards will fight on your behalf. It is like AB because the opponents can re-capture, and thus there's real struggle. The incentive lies in protection from guards as well as discounted price from vendors. At the end of a given period, Blizzard can post statistics on the percentage of contested territories each faction hold to spur some competitiveness in players.

If players feel like their actions can influence the game, they would be drawn to the game.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

 

Unless you expect players to create content and objectives on their own (such as "conquering Orgrimarr"), Blizzard would have to develop them.  I don't think people would spend weeks fighting over Orgimarr for a pretend fight with no actual objectives, rewards or consequences.

The fact is, people can do everything you propose now on pvp servers, but they don't, because there's no point to it.

I think people would much rather do it for a reward rather than just play make-believe or else we wouldn't have to play WoW in the first place. Okay, how about my house will be Orgrimmar and your house will be Stormwind and we'll duke it out at each others houses. I'll get my puerto rican buddies and you can get your white buddies and we'll dance fight to see who rules Azeroth -_- See how easy it is to play make-believe. We play video games to take it a step further and actually play within a set of rules with some form of real reward. Blizzard makes 150+ million per month, there's realy no reason why Blizzard couldn't try harder to offer something much more fresh -_- But no...we get Cataclysm and we pay for that on top of a sub fee. Figured they will make enough off the expansion-price faction changes. They're slowly developing into a bunch of sellouts if they aren't already.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet:
The fact is, people can do everything you propose now on pvp servers, but they don't, because there's no point to it.

I agree that on PVP servers players can already do everything what I propose. But there is a problem. There are players that like raiding and there are players that would like to play the suggested endgame. I you mix this two type of players on one server the suggested endgame would not work. It has to be a dedicated server with only players that would want play it this way. That's the reason why the server should be without dungeons - so there would be no raiders on this server.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet:
I don't think people would spend weeks fighting over Orgimarr for a pretend fight with no actual objectives, rewards or consequences.

Conquering Orgrimmar would not be something that would occur twice a month. It would be very difficult. Maybe there would be some 5 attempts every year to do it. And probably only one attempt in every two years would succeed. Now imagine the glory that the alliance general who conquered Orgrimmar would get. He would go into history. Almost everybody would know his name. This is one of the highest possible rewards that you can get - much better than some epic drop or XP. Even players that would be part of the battle would brag about it for some time - hey I was in the famous epic battle of Orgrimmar 2010.

I think that today MMOs are to much oriented into artificial rewards. Why did the first people conquer Mount Everest? They didn't get XP for it and they didn't get some epic gear. They did it because it was a big challenge, because Mount Everest is the highest mountain in the world. And they did it for glory and fame. And this is something that is missing in MMOs. Even if a mission in a MMO is very challenging people will not do it if they would not get a lot of XP or some big reward for it.

And finally. The name of the game is World of Warcraft. So this game should be about war as it is suggested by the name. As it is played today the game should be renamed into World of Raidcraft.