Quoted from www.eorzeapedia.com

"1up.com published an article entitled: “The Future of Online Gaming in Japan: The people behind FFXIV and Phantasy Star Online weigh in.“ Despite the seeming popularity in Japan of Final Fantasy XI, and surely of Final Fantasy XIV, the article details why overall online gaming in Japan is less popular than in the United States or Europe. Only Nobuaki Komoto, director of FFXIV took issue with the premise somewhat, stating:

"The way MMOs attract players has dramatically evolved. It’s especially noticeable with American and European titles. Games used to favor hardcore players; there were a lot of games made with the philosophy that everything should be hidden and the players can work together to figure it out. It was very unkind. Games these days don’t let their players ask ‘What am I supposed to do?’. They guide the player along the way — but there are several paths to take, and you’re still free to do something else. They’re free experiences.

The ultimate ideal would be for them not to be called ‘online games’ any longer. I think that’s the real goal for us. Lots of downloadable games, not to mention Gears of War and Fallout 3, are ‘online games,’ but nobody calls them that. I think we’ll see that term go by the wayside even for games with lots of online features. Their presence will be considered a normal part of the package." "
 

/Strike fear into the hearts of FF11 alumni everywhere. :P

Does this sound like confirmation of the less challenging FF14 some game features are pointing towards? Guess we wait and see.

I agree that games are simply getting easier and simplier. It's also true that the industry is flooded with casual gamers (not using the term as an offense) that really couldn't care less and happily pay for  what we consider less of a game.

While those of us that grew up with the industry are likely upset it all comes down to darn business in the end which is why we're going to need to get used to these changes...we're outnumbered by a lot and any sane company will target the numbers that grant them the biggest profits.

I'm a huge fan of options though. There's no reason why a game can't have tiered rewards that are worthwhile regardless of wheither you spent 30 minutes or four hours working on it. I know they keep saying FFXIV will appease both casuals and more hardcore players, but I'm not being convinced too much so far..

Thankfully they say FFXI players are their biggest target so I cab gioe  the game won't be too casual and his way of thinking according to this article pretty much goes against such casual heavy gameplay anyways.

Originally posted by Sanjoslayer

I agree that games are simply getting easier and simplier. It's also true that the industry is flooded with casual gamers (not using the term as an offense) that really couldn't care less and happily pay for  what we consider less of a game.

While those of us that grew up with the industry are likely upset it all comes down to darn business in the end which is why we're going to need to get used to these changes...we're outnumbered by a lot and any sane company will target the numbers that grant them the biggest profits.

I'm a huge fan of options though. There's no reason why a game can't have tiered rewards that are worthwhile regardless of wheither you spent 30 minutes or four hours working on it. I know they keep saying FFXIV will appease both casuals and more hardcore players, but I'm not being convinced too much so far..

Thankfully they say FFXI players are their biggest target so I cab gioe  the game won't be too casual and his way of thinking according to this article pretty much goes against such casual heavy gameplay anyways.

WoW claims the same sort of thing, but really there is no hardcore basis with the game. I've been level 80 for a month now and have already hit full epics in PvE, nothing to really go after anymore except the minor upgrades that come from raids. I don't care for the PvP in WoW anymore, its even more unbalanced and painful than ever. I consider myself leaning towards being a more hardcore gamer, and thus I am truly starving for a worthwhile game to play, even on a console. I don't expect to find a solution anytime. I would go back and play FFXI, but from what I can tell it is difficult to start out as a newbie(not as hard as before, obviously). I expect FFXIV will be a theme park.

Casual coming from the masochistic minds of SE - I bet you the game is still going to be a challenge!

It's going to be funny when other players from other mmo's that never played xi try out xiv for the fact that it is "casual" and they get frustrated because it will actually be hard. (force grouping towards end-game or drown in your solo drool!)   oh noez! =D

Originally posted by SoulSurfer

Casual coming from the masochistic minds of SE - I bet you the game is still going to be a challenge!

It's going to be funny when other players from other mmo's that never played xi try out xiv for the fact that it is "casual" and they get frustrated because it will actually be hard. (force grouping towards end-game or drown in your solo drool!)   oh noez! =D

      I agree. I think even though Square Enix has made the game a little more casual than previous. I still think it will be a smack in the face when they find out how hard it truly is. Again, I dont believe that Square Enix was trying to make an extra buck and attempt to cater to a WoW crowd. I truly believe they heard the cries from former FFXI players that couldnt believe that they just waited 2 hours for a party or waiting for other players to fill a party. I will agree that they are making some things a little more simple. But I do not believe that this was just because WoW turned a hugh profit. Square has a ton of projects out there that have been making money and Im pretty sure that as a Company they dont have anything to worry about.

      I have heard the developers repeat that they have listened to some of the players of FFXI. I think they have been really objective and have taken the ideas they liked and started to implement/tweak them. With that said, I have more and more confidence in Square and the developers everytime I read an article. Why? Because they addressed one of my main concerns from the previous game. They asked why I quit and I gave it to them. I felt like they actually listened. Again, their might have been others with the same complaint. Regardless, they still listened and have been proactive. With that said, I will wait patiently for this game and play it because of that simple loyalty. Thats all it took for me and I can only hope that they come out with this game sooner than later.

Originally posted by dethgar

Originally posted by Sanjoslayer

I agree that games are simply getting easier and simplier. It's also true that the industry is flooded with casual gamers (not using the term as an offense) that really couldn't care less and happily pay for  what we consider less of a game.

While those of us that grew up with the industry are likely upset it all comes down to darn business in the end which is why we're going to need to get used to these changes...we're outnumbered by a lot and any sane company will target the numbers that grant them the biggest profits.

I'm a huge fan of options though. There's no reason why a game can't have tiered rewards that are worthwhile regardless of wheither you spent 30 minutes or four hours working on it. I know they keep saying FFXIV will appease both casuals and more hardcore players, but I'm not being convinced too much so far..

Thankfully they say FFXI players are their biggest target so I cab gioe  the game won't be too casual and his way of thinking according to this article pretty much goes against such casual heavy gameplay anyways.

 

WoW claims the same sort of thing, but really there is no hardcore basis with the game. I've been level 80 for a month now and have already hit full epics in PvE, nothing to really go after anymore except the minor upgrades that come from raids. I don't care for the PvP in WoW anymore, its even more unbalanced and painful than ever. I consider myself leaning towards being a more hardcore gamer, and thus I am truly starving for a worthwhile game to play, even on a console. I don't expect to find a solution anytime. I would go back and play FFXI, but from what I can tell it is difficult to start out as a newbie(not as hard as before, obviously). I expect FFXIV will be a theme park.

Yes - that was my problem with WoW. Though I don't really have time to be a full time hardcore player, I would like to have a chance at it and feel like it is actually hardcore... That means challenging, makes you think and has meaning in general.  I think the term hardcore has a different meaning for everyone involved I am afraid.

Originally posted by Apricoth

Originally posted by dethgar

Originally posted by Sanjoslayer

I agree that games are simply getting easier and simplier. It's also true that the industry is flooded with casual gamers (not using the term as an offense) that really couldn't care less and happily pay for  what we consider less of a game.

While those of us that grew up with the industry are likely upset it all comes down to darn business in the end which is why we're going to need to get used to these changes...we're outnumbered by a lot and any sane company will target the numbers that grant them the biggest profits.

I'm a huge fan of options though. There's no reason why a game can't have tiered rewards that are worthwhile regardless of wheither you spent 30 minutes or four hours working on it. I know they keep saying FFXIV will appease both casuals and more hardcore players, but I'm not being convinced too much so far..

Thankfully they say FFXI players are their biggest target so I cab gioe  the game won't be too casual and his way of thinking according to this article pretty much goes against such casual heavy gameplay anyways.

 

WoW claims the same sort of thing, but really there is no hardcore basis with the game. I've been level 80 for a month now and have already hit full epics in PvE, nothing to really go after anymore except the minor upgrades that come from raids. I don't care for the PvP in WoW anymore, its even more unbalanced and painful than ever. I consider myself leaning towards being a more hardcore gamer, and thus I am truly starving for a worthwhile game to play, even on a console. I don't expect to find a solution anytime. I would go back and play FFXI, but from what I can tell it is difficult to start out as a newbie(not as hard as before, obviously). I expect FFXIV will be a theme park.

Yes - that was my problem with WoW. Though I don't really have time to be a full time hardcore player, I would like to have a chance at it and feel like it is actually hardcore... That means challenging, makes you think and has meaning in general.  I think the term hardcore has a different meaning for everyone involved I am afraid.

Its not just WOW. Im so frustrated im thinking of trying Darkfall just to see if  its really what the fans say. 

 It depends on what you consider challenging. FFXI was more of a life style than it was a game. It required huge amounts of time and the great sense of achievement is what kept its players going. I used to play FFXI  from when I got home from school until I went to bed and from when I woke up till I went to bed on weekends, and it still seemed like I never had enough time to complete a lot of things I wanted to do. 

Originally posted by Skeeterxi

 It depends on what you consider challenging. FFXI was more of a life style than it was a game. It required huge amounts of time and the great sense of achievement is what kept its players going. I used to play FFXI  from when I got home from school until I went to bed and from when I woke up till I went to bed on weekends, and it still seemed like I never had enough time to complete a lot of things I wanted to do. 

I think the MMO community and especially developers need to stop associating challenges with time sinks. What I would like to see is a lot of difficult boss fights and dungeons for the challenge of it instead of for an assinine drop your guild will probably only see once or twice a year if you are lucky on a 24 hour spawn camped by 200+ people. Not too say I don't want gear to play a huge role in the game  but difficulty of content should bottleneck people not gigantic time sinks.

Which is where FF14's Guildleves come in, things that need accomplishing will not be camped near as much or maybe at all. You will instead instance-in some way- a guildleve and begin your adventure. (IMO)

This would seem to reduce the amount of sitting around and waiting, which is prevalent in FF11, although they did get so much right.

Personally, I look forward to trying FF14, obvisouly.

 I really don't understand why people care so much about games being 'hardcore' it just sounds like one of those words that gamers like to throw around to show how elite they are about something, when in reality why in the world does it matter... sounds like someone is trying to compensate for something...

I don't know, the word 'hardcore' usually seems to go hand-in-hand with 'time sink'

"Games these days don’t let their players ask ‘What am I supposed to do?’"

Honestly if people didn't use online websites that tell them what to do I don't think there would be a problem here... I mean really just think about it.

Originally posted by Rajen

 I really don't understand why people care so much about games being 'hardcore' it just sounds like one of those words that gamers like to throw around to show how elite they are about something, when in reality why in the world does it matter... sounds like someone is trying to compensate for something...

 

I don't know, the word 'hardcore' usually seems to go hand-in-hand with 'time sink'

 

"Games these days don’t let their players ask ‘What am I supposed to do?’"

 

Honestly if people didn't use online websites that tell them what to do I don't think there would be a problem here... I mean really just think about it.

 

 

I cant speak for everyone on why they want a "hardcore" game, but for me its simple.

"Casual" MMO's do not hold my attention for longer than a few months. For me flying through the content is not fun. In terms of leveling, the trend seems to be that the easier it is, the bigger the rush to cap. thats just one example. My personal opinion is that MMORPGS have de-evolved into online RPG's. Hell I have played single player RPG's longer than some of the recent MMO's. IMO MMO's should not be played like an single player RPG, few months then done. Its a long term type of game. FFXIV is probably my last hope that we might get an half assed true MMO.

Edit: Grind and time-sink have nothing to do with it since that depends on the individual person. A freakin MMO is a time-sink/grind, a console game is a time-sink/grind, life is a time-sink/grind. I can understand where these terms come from because there is a large group of players who need instant gratifacation to enjoy a game. Anything thats not instant is automatically labled a grind/time-sink.

It doesn't necessary mean that FFXIV or any new MMO will become "easier", what Nobuaki Komoto is describing is a more user friendly MMO. In the past players had to calculate their own attack, skill, and exp formulas. The game heavily required the community to generate a lot of helpful advice for other players. What I see happening now are games that clearly describe the types of tools they will give you, but not make the game any easier. Sure the old MMOs are complete grinds, but making the game more user friendly doesn't mean it's any less of a "online" game.

What sets a online game apart from a game with an online component is the number of players active. Another aspect of MMOs are that they have a role-playing element not found in games with a single player mode. As Nobuaki mentioned, future games will have some sort of inherent online aspect.

As for the future and popularity of MMOs, that is left to be seen. Games are becoming less platform centric, moving towards something integrated into the net. What is happening now is that the myth of having an online game with great graphics and story is slowing moving by the wayside.

You are correct. Quest helper, thotbot and on and on. No game is "hardcore" when you are told what to do and how to do it. Mods are another thing that are not only an option but i was just told, on another thread, that they are needed if you want to get things done. All of these things do nothing but dumb down the game, no matter how "hardcore" the game was intended to be.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Rajen

 I really don't understand why people care so much about games being 'hardcore' it just sounds like one of those words that gamers like to throw around to show how elite they are about something, when in reality why in the world does it matter... sounds like someone is trying to compensate for something...

 

I don't know, the word 'hardcore' usually seems to go hand-in-hand with 'time sink'

 

"Games these days don’t let their players ask ‘What am I supposed to do?’"

 

Honestly if people didn't use online websites that tell them what to do I don't think there would be a problem here... I mean really just think about it.

 

 

I cant speak for everyone on why they want a "hardcore" game, but for me its simple.

"Casual" MMO's do not hold my attention for longer than a few months. For me flying through the content is not fun. In terms of leveling, the trend seems to be that the easier it is, the bigger the rush to cap. thats just one example. My personal opinion is that MMORPGS have de-evolved into online RPG's. Hell I have played single player RPG's longer than some of the recent MMO's. IMO MMO's should not be played like an single player RPG, few months then done. Its a long term type of game. FFXIV is probably my last hope that we might get an half assed true MMO.

Edit: Grind and time-sink have nothing to do with it since that depends on the individual person. A freakin MMO is a time-sink/grind, a console game is a time-sink/grind, life is a time-sink/grind. I can understand where these terms come from because there is a large group of players who need instant gratifacation to enjoy a game. Anything thats not instant is automatically labled a grind/time-sink.

My last hope to and I feel that SE will not let us down.  SE might make it a lil more casual for the casual player but I'm sure they will have more hardcore content than casual content if not in launch but in the next expansion.  I can deal with them making the early lvls easy but once you climb the lvls I want the game to come harder and harder.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

You are correct. Quest helper, thotbot and on and on. No game is "hardcore" when you are told what to do and how to do it. Mods are another thing that are not only an option but i was just told, on another thread, that they are needed if you want to get things done. All of these things do nothing but dumb down the game, no matter how "hardcore" the game was intended to be.

I agree...

Basically I think games would be a lot more so-called 'hardcore' than people make them if they just played the game and didn't use a ton of outside sources that just tell them what to do. Maybe games are 'hardcore' and make you ask questions, but it does no good when everyone just goes to some unofficial site that tells them everything they need to know.

I could really care less if a game is hard or not as long as it has a lot of content to keep me busy and having fun..

Hardcore or not... I just want to log on and relax with friends, as long as I have something to do in the game I really don't care.

The way I read that was something like the fact that eq1 had quests where the npc told you go talk to Joe Schmoe but failed to tell you where to find him.  That was a failing not a feature.  There should be challenges but in an mmo the quest givers should always be cooperative in order to get you to do what they are asking.  To tell you "Im asking you to do this for me but Im not going to tell you anything to help you do it" is just stupid.  Some call it handholding to give quest directions but I call it a world that is believable.

Also, you ask a guard "wheres the bank".  Is that too much to ask that the guard who knows the town like the back of his hand should give directions?  Dont sacrifice a believable world just to make it more of a "challenge" to search and search before you find a bank.

 i didn't do a lot of quests in EQ because of that fact I had no idea where to go. haha I ground my way right up to max levels twice in that game. The only real quests I did was Tumpy Tonics (over and over and before they removed it) and Cleric Epic weapon quest.  There were a few others - don't recall what they were off of the top of my head.