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News & Features Discussion  » World of Warcraft: World of CasualCraft?

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87 posts found
  Darkz0r

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 82

9/09/09 6:01:18 PM#41

 Threads like this are always filled with such diverse opinions, and while some are interested, it all boils down to:

1- Players that play for fun

2-Players that need to feel important, need reassurance in their lives, etc, but having "in-game status"

 

I think, maybe, blizzard is actually investing a little bit more into 1 than 2, so people are whining. You want to acomplish something? Do so IRL, games are pixels so you can have fun, not to stroke your ego because you are, in fact, no one.

  templarga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/04
Posts: 1982

9/09/09 6:01:40 PM#42
Originally posted by nkryptik
Originally posted by todeswulf


Great another Vanilla vets QQ about WoW being Ez mode, god mmorpg.com must be desperate as hell to post such utter nonsense. WoW has a broad appeal, every time Blizzard adds something for those players who don’t sock poop and live in Mommy’s basement we get Bullshit pieces like this. The bottom line is if you find WoW too easy try uninstalling those 450 face roll add-ons you use, or maybe actually try to run a dungeon without reading every connect the dot walkthrough.

At the end of the day no one gives a fuck that you find something that was created for entertainment unchallenging. If you want a challenge try designing chess programs in Pascal or better yet take your lard ass out of the basement and attempt to walk a mile without keeling over from a heart attack We have had enough of these dumbass post that basically say the same thing…”.I am no longer a special snowflake.”
 

 

and another one of the WotLK kiddie noobs facerolls the keyboard.

 

If you ever actually worked for anything in your life you know that you feel better when you get something you worked for rather than yelling Mommy this is too hard.

Seriously we need a game that is full of challenge that keeps us working and keeps us playing with something new each day as it takes that long to get through the levels and you learn to play your class right instead of thottbot cookie cutters running around using the same moves as the last tool.

There was a time when having the gear meant you were respected in the game and comments like this are the same as what trade chat is full of now.

Um, you do realize we are talking about video games right? You know - games....things where people have fun and play to enjoy them?

You speak of WOW and games as if its the most important thing ever. It seems you are trying to equate making WOW easier to being given a car or a house or a check for $1000. There is a major difference - real life vs. virtual life.

And not everyone plays to enjoy a challenge. Some people like the lack of one and find it more relaxing. I am challenged every day at work; I do not want to come home and have to do trig, physics and astronomy just to be able to play my game. If I did, I would play a harder game.

And to be honest, I could care less about being respected in a game. Who the hell cares about that? I will spend my time being respected in real life among my friends, family and colleagues.

  todeswulf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/07
Posts: 750

9/09/09 6:03:09 PM#43
Originally posted by nkryptik
Originally posted by todeswulf


Great another Vanilla vets QQ about WoW being Ez mode, god mmorpg.com must be desperate as hell to post such utter nonsense. WoW has a broad appeal, every time Blizzard adds something for those players who don’t sock poop and live in Mommy’s basement we get Bullshit pieces like this. The bottom line is if you find WoW too easy try uninstalling those 450 face roll add-ons you use, or maybe actually try to run a dungeon without reading every connect the dot walkthrough.

At the end of the day no one gives a fuck that you find something that was created for entertainment unchallenging. If you want a challenge try designing chess programs in Pascal or better yet take your lard ass out of the basement and attempt to walk a mile without keeling over from a heart attack We have had enough of these dumbass post that basically say the same thing…”.I am no longer a special snowflake.”
 

 

and another one of the WotLK kiddie noobs facerolls the keyboard.

 

If you ever actually worked for anything in your life you know that you feel better when you get something you worked for rather than yelling Mommy this is too hard.

Seriously we need a game that is full of challenge that keeps us working and keeps us playing with something new each day as it takes that long to get through the levels and you learn to play your class right instead of thottbot cookie cutters running around using the same moves as the last tool.

There was a time when having the gear meant you were respected in the game and comments like this are the same as what trade chat is full of now.


 

Oh your mean words...they burn. /smirk


Ass, I have worked for many things in my life, I worked my way through college, five long years (I doubled majored) on third shift in a textile mill, that was worthwhile. WoW is a game you myopic dilettante. Wow has plenty of things to keep people working, that isn't what your'e upset over you are upset because WoW can no longer provide a place where for once in your miserable existence you are big news. If you honestly think that a few pixels ever bought you respect then I have a bridge to sell you.
 

  karat76

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

9/09/09 6:14:45 PM#44

I like the fact that they are starting to realize the game is not supposed to be a second life.  Let raiders and others of their ilk have their pieces of the game but don't forget those of us with active RLs. I don't care if it takes me months to get something accomplished. These "hardcores' who think we just want instant gratification are delusional. I don't know anyone who wants it now they just want the chance to get it differently. Whether it be 100+ step quests or some other system.

  Unibrow

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/09
Posts: 13

"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life."
Simone Weil

9/09/09 6:24:16 PM#45
Originally posted by Abrahmm
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Everyone i know likes it.

And it is not as easy as the author has indicated.

My guild has tried TOC 10, and the tank is not geared enough to get through all of it. Just the first boss took us a few tries. It is not undoable but it will take a few weeks/months before even a big fraction of the guilds can have it on farm. And don't forget 25 man & hard mode.

If you read MMO-champion, only TWO guilds in the world have cleared hardmode 25 man TOC. That is a total of 50 players out of 11M. I don't think Blizzard has anything to worry about making the game too easy.

If you go to wow-heroes.com, as of NOW, on my server, calestrasz, there are like only 20 guilds who have clear anything in TOC 10, out of >200. None has cleared everything. ONLY 6 guilds have down any TOC 25 boss.

It will be months before even half of the guilds are having any of these in farm.

 

 

That isn't challenge, that is just a time sink. Those bosses haven't been taken down not because they are that difficult to beat, but because players haven't grinded enough to get the gear to beat them. I never found any of the raids I did in WoW challenging, the only challenging was grinding enough so that I could have good enough gear to beat the encounter.

The difficulty should be in the encounter, not the time it takes to have enough gear to beat it.

 

While I partially agree with what you say, I can't agree with all of it. It's true that it's a time sink, such is the nature for MMOs to keep you subscribing and collecting money. However, your average casual player still has plenty of difficulty with the 10-mans, and it provides a challenge for them, much less the 25-mans.

If you go to the forums, you'll see plenty of people listing their DPS against Patchwerk at 5-6k. Not too shabby for the gear required for Naxx. However, a casual guild has plenty of people that still struggle to hit 2k. Partially because of gear, but more so because they're casual. The 25-mans are more for skilled players, players that can take orders, players that have worked on their spell rotation or their reactions to bosses, etc. And I still know of quite a few casual guilds that run 25-mans, but it takes them multiple months to clear the place simply because they don't have the skill to defeat them.

This, of course, begs the question: what makes an encounter difficult? Is Patchwerk considered difficult? He can be for the gear check, but beyond that, he's a tank-and-spank. However, the other bosses require things that gear can't give you -- timing, coordination, reaction. awareness, etc. For instance, one of my favorites is the 4 Horsemen. A more complex fight considering the tactics used to defeat them. It's just plain fun to have the coordination of switching the bosses as the debuffs stack up.

Then again, I suppose the skilled or hardcore player, may get tired of these "gimmicks" thrown in and still view the content as "easy", but a vast majority DON'T think it's easy at all. So then, what would make a skilled player, or a hardcore player, happy? What kind of boss encounter would make the game more appealing? Truthfully, the more I read these posts, or posts like these, I wonder if the bosses are the root of the problem.

You see, every boss of every game is quite the same -- a scripted event, in which when certain conditions are met, certain actions are taken. It's been this way since NES days. Not much has changed at all. I think what might make more hardcore players happy is having a dynamic enemy, one that thinks and will use different tactics according to your tactics... oh, wait, that's PvP, nevermind. This whole post was pointless.

"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life."
Simone Weil

  Yauchy

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 296

"The keenist sorrow is that we are the sole cause of our adversities" ~Sophicles

9/09/09 6:33:09 PM#46

 I raided throughout college and got my degree on-time.  Clearing all of BC raiding was an amazing amount of fun to work together as a raid group, helping people get better and being able to clear things with a fair amount of difficulty to take down.  All raiding should take practice and a thing called "progression" is not all grind, some people actually enjoy learning how to kill things with several people, and several phases, working as a team...Archimonde (without those sad log hugging people) was a tad ridiculous though.

With the newest expansion, raid content was cleared with an unparalleled ease - I even did level 80 5 mans at 66 getting crushed like a madman using leftover sunwell gear & greens/blues as you found em.  That was more fun than -any- of the raiding in this expansion, as it was a challenge to fight far undergeared & underleveled.  Actual raid instance clearing can be done in a single night for some and by a guild to farm in a month :/.

Difficulty by removing people from a raid, having you not get hit by anything a boss casts, or doing things with perfect time scales is not "difficult" it's frivolous.  "Achievement raiding" is a sad excuse for content and the new expansion's content (or revamping of the old) is too little too late...it could of been done long before, when it was still fresh to mind and lore pertinent.

While WoW is a good MMO and argueablely the best (I personally prefer FFXI) it has become "Casualcraft" and it's a shame.  At least looking back over the last few years you had something to look forward to, a raid you could not reach or some things you just lacked time for...now is all just accessible to the 5 year vet or the 1 month n00b.  Now with a full-time job I couldn't raid like I did, but I still wholeheartily agree with "put the time & earn it" like it was and like you will never see again - in any MMO :( as its a classical MMO ideal, to die with the ages as did "hell levels".

Blizzard is a business through & through.  Power and Casual Gaming make you money, so of course that's how their business plans will go...I just hope it doesn't effect the quality of design put into their other current LPs - we shall see :)

 PS.  Gear has become less and less an issue as time has passed.  Banks full of potions, scrolls, and resistance gear is a thing of the past - and skill can makeup for quite a bit of lack of gear (with exception to only the tanks, which as one - it was never a problem for me...I had over half my tier set in 2 weeks after release of WotLK :/)

  darksider27

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 46

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong...only who whines the loudest.

9/09/09 6:34:52 PM#47

Too much emphasis on gear, not enough on skill.

But that has been wow from the beginning.   In fact, its true of most mmos...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/darksider
I don't use xfire anymore.
I <3 Steam =D

  zpassenger

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 11

9/09/09 6:59:44 PM#48

agreed

  djFEVA

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/09
Posts: 48

A no BS perspective

9/09/09 7:01:50 PM#49
Originally posted by gorillaz951
Originally posted by djFEVA

Many discussion and debate is centered on terminology. Thus far, there hasn't been any undisputed definition for what it means to be a casual gamer vs. a hardcore gamer vs. a skilled gamer vs. a veteran gamer. There's aspects that people have put into each category that may apply for another.

I think a casual gamer is someone who logs relatively few consecutive or total hours during any given week due to whatever reason that they are not playing the game. A hardcore game is someone who plays religiously, treating the game as their happy job. I do not equate skill with time logged, and I think that's the root with a lot of negative connotation of the word casual and hardcore. A skilled gamer is someone who is able to maximize the potential of their character, gaining respect as a good player from their fellow teammates as well as their opponents. A veteran gamer is someone who has stayed with the game for a set amount of time (whether it'd be BETA or launch), and it is regardless of how many hours they log on average per week.

In my humble opinion, no player falls into just one box. It's unfair to force that issue, just like all the bashing WoW has got for trying to incorporate all of those types of players into the game. Whether or not they are doing a good job, well, that's not for me to say since I stopped playing about 2 years back.

I will say that from what I've been following up with recent activities in WoW, there are many disgruntled players, and there are still many who rave about the game. Ultimately it comes down to money. As long as there is a "healthy" number (aka giving Blizzard their revenue cow), WoW will continue to its imperfect and quite frankly impossible to perfect way of keeping our eyeballs glued to the computer screen.

Very nice post! I understand your point and this can be put into many other games as well.
 

But you forgot one category that is slightly important: the incompetent gamer.

These are the players you see in-game making poop and Chuck Norris jokes in a trade chat. These are the players kill stealing your monsters for an important quest you have to do and then laughing at you. These are the players corpse camping you when they are 70 or so levels above you! This is the REAL Problem WoW has with me. I have played many other games and by far WoW has the worst community voice ever; a fat 11 year old spamming "n00b" in your message box as he hammers you to the ground. It's hard to even consider them "Players".

 

lol, I was trying to be nice, and stay non-political about the players that drive you absolutely crazy... whether it's total lack of understanding in how they play their character or other above things that you've mentioned already.

The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.

  djFEVA

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/09
Posts: 48

A no BS perspective

9/09/09 7:14:21 PM#50
Originally posted by Shreddi

If these changes are in addition to and not replacing then who cares?   Only the jealous/selfish few would care less if they add casual content to the game.  As long as they dont replace or take away the content already there and expected in the game.  Otherwise so what if others dont have to punish themselfs the same as you did?  They should give a badge or something who do complete the more difficult content to be fair.   Like a no whimp badge.   And im sorry I had to laugh at "the good player" doesnt get respect.   Come on man its a mmo.  Its not like were making as much as a tennis pro playing quake or other FPS requiring dead on reflex and hard core practice hours like other sports.   I sure the hell cant compete with that lot and put in more hours than most and I  "get no respect".   Should start a comedy bit but that lines been taken.   Mmo's are a second life to some I understand but expecting respect from a toon for flashing epic bling is taking things a little too far. 

 

I don't equate having epic bling with respect. Having gear only means you are a part of a compotent guild, one has been coordinated enough to get through the content in which those pieces are dropped. It does not, however, say anything about the skill level of the individual player. Although you do get a glimps of that by the kinds of enchantments and jewels the armor has.

By respect, I mean as a competitive player, you feel challenged and inspired to play the game and/or play with/against that particular player. In a guild that would this player has position of authority or leadership. In gameplay, it would mean that player makes smart decisions that contribute to the success of whatever he/she is doing. This is what makes me respect a player.

The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.

  zpassenger

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 11

9/09/09 7:19:59 PM#51
Originally posted by Yauchy

 I raided throughout college and got my degree on-time.  Clearing all of BC raiding was an amazing amount of fun to work together as a raid group, helping people get better and being able to clear things with a fair amount of difficulty to take down.  All raiding should take practice and a thing called "progression" is not all grind, some people actually enjoy learning how to kill things with several people, and several phases, working as a team...Archimonde (without those sad log hugging people) was a tad ridiculous though.

With the newest expansion, raid content was cleared with an unparalleled ease - I even did level 80 5 mans at 66 getting crushed like a madman using leftover sunwell gear & greens/blues as you found em.  That was more fun than -any- of the raiding in this expansion, as it was a challenge to fight far undergeared & underleveled.  Actual raid instance clearing can be done in a single night for some and by a guild to farm in a month :/.

Difficulty by removing people from a raid, having you not get hit by anything a boss casts, or doing things with perfect time scales is not "difficult" it's frivolous.  "Achievement raiding" is a sad excuse for content and the new expansion's content (or revamping of the old) is too little too late...it could of been done long before, when it was still fresh to mind and lore pertinent.

While WoW is a good MMO and argueablely the best (I personally prefer FFXI) it has become "Casualcraft" and it's a shame.  At least looking back over the last few years you had something to look forward to, a raid you could not reach or some things you just lacked time for...now is all just accessible to the 5 year vet or the 1 month n00b.  Now with a full-time job I couldn't raid like I did, but I still wholeheartily agree with "put the time & earn it" like it was and like you will never see again - in any MMO :( as its a classical MMO ideal, to die with the ages as did "hell levels".

Blizzard is a business through & through.  Power and Casual Gaming make you money, so of course that's how their business plans will go...I just hope it doesn't effect the quality of design put into their other current LPs - we shall see :)

 PS.  Gear has become less and less an issue as time has passed.  Banks full of potions, scrolls, and resistance gear is a thing of the past - and skill can makeup for quite a bit of lack of gear (with exception to only the tanks, which as one - it was never a problem for me...I had over half my tier set in 2 weeks after release of WotLK :/)

 

you lie and you contradict yourself. you also tell a lot of nonsense,

There is still a lot to fight for.

  Silverthorn8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/08
Posts: 482

9/09/09 8:08:21 PM#52

As I recall, an official statement made by on of the Blue posters said that the dropping of T8/9 badges from heroics was intended as a bridge for the mid section of gamers.

 I think it also helps players to maybe gain entry to pug raids or half guid raids, that maybe before the changes would have been overlooked. I certainly see slightly less achievment/gear requirements asked for in LFG (dont have /2 switched on anymore.)

The mount changes were obvious really, they want to keep the same levelling time from tbc's 1-70 for 1-85 when cataclysm arrives. Also vanilla/tbc zone are pretty much voids gamewise now (most likely this has favoured the complete revamp planned for vanilla zones).

I can see why people have issues with all of this, jeez I remember being told off on my first molten core trip for using serpent sting on the first 2 molten giant mobs (back then all raid mobs had a max debuff limit of 8, those were almost exclusively for warlock curses, it was later increased to 16 and eventually went higher still.)

Point is I guess the faster levelling is only going to increase the number of unskilled players at max level, which of course when they complain about dungeon difficulty will lead to nerfing mobs/bosses in raids/dungeons, which of course is where we are now.

This is why I'll likely continue only till the end of this expansion (must at least see what happens to the lich king). I dont see myself as hardcore or even totally casual, but I do like to have some level of difficulty or achievment for stuff I do get in game.

(Oh yeah, I'm still pissed at what they did to the wintersaber questline, 3 month solid grind reduced to 5 days....major kick in the nuts that was, and then to have it show up in my achievment panel as completed in july this year - dont have many teeth left to grind these days :S)

  googajoob7

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 877

9/09/09 8:28:39 PM#53

I ve often felt the point when the game started to go downhill was when Blizzard introduced faster leveling .I found it interesting the mmorpg.com also decided to run an article on a topic which many past and present WOW players are voicing concern . The game has become far to easy and aimed at the casual and younger player in general . It why a lot of long term players have left or are thinking about leaving . Blizzard will have to address this sooner or later because they cant just rely on the subs of casual players .

  templarga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/04
Posts: 1982

9/09/09 8:32:12 PM#54
Originally posted by googajoob7

I ve often felt the point when the game started to go downhill was when Blizzard introduced faster leveling .I found it interesting the mmorpg.com also decided to run an article on a topic which many past and present WOW players are voicing concern . The game has become far to easy and aimed at the casual and younger player in general . It why a lot of long term players have left or are thinking about leaving . Blizzard will have to address this sooner or later because they cant just rely on the subs of casual players .

Then who should have cater too? The 2% hardcore audience that grow bored in 2 months because they breeze through any and all content and then unsubscribe? The FFA PVP crowd?

Sorry the game's base is casual, it will continue to be casual and WOW will do fine relying just on casual players.

And by the way, casual players are not always younger and vice versa. The most casual players are the 30 somethings like myself that have been in the market for years and do not have the 10-12 hours a day to play anymore because we have kids, homes, jobs, etc.... We are the real casual player and by no means a "younger player".

  googajoob7

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 877

9/09/09 8:46:28 PM#55
Originally posted by templarga
Originally posted by googajoob7

I ve often felt the point when the game started to go downhill was when Blizzard introduced faster leveling .I found it interesting the mmorpg.com also decided to run an article on a topic which many past and present WOW players are voicing concern . The game has become far to easy and aimed at the casual and younger player in general . It why a lot of long term players have left or are thinking about leaving . Blizzard will have to address this sooner or later because they cant just rely on the subs of casual players .

Then who should have cater too? The 2% hardcore audience that grow bored in 2 months because they breeze through any and all content and then unsubscribe? The FFA PVP crowd?

Sorry the game's base is casual, it will continue to be casual and WOW will do fine relying just on casual players.

And by the way, casual players are not always younger and vice versa. The most casual players are the 30 somethings like myself that have been in the market for years and do not have the 10-12 hours a day to play anymore because we have kids, homes, jobs, etc.... We are the real casual player and by no means a "younger player".

Because its getting so easy even casual players will get bored of the content within 4-6 months . it ll eventually lead to players staying for shorter periods of time before they move onto something new or more challenging . which is ok if you want WOW to be the entry level mmo . We can assume its already losing a lot of players given Blizzard havnt released subscription figures since last december ( even the situation in China would nt have stopped them releasing figures for the west if they were good )
 

Its simple if your happy in an mmo which gets progressivly easier and are willing to see the things you obtain become obsolete once every two years with each new expansion pack then Warcrafts the game for you . Blizzard dont have any respect for players that have stayed with game over years and invested time and money in it . You see the problem runs a lot deaper than what goes on in WOW its how Blizzard do buisness . short term profit over long term gameplay .

While they are ultimatly a buisness and in it to make money you have to maintain a certain sence of credibility in buisness or you lose money in the long term . And Blizzard are fast losing thiers as will become apparent in the coming months and years .

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19095

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/09/09 9:07:30 PM#56
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Everyone i know likes it.

And it is not as easy as the author has indicated.

My guild has tried TOC 10, and the tank is not geared enough to get through all of it. Just the first boss took us a few tries. It is not undoable but it will take a few weeks/months before even a big fraction of the guilds can have it on farm. And don't forget 25 man & hard mode.

If you read MMO-champion, only TWO guilds in the world have cleared hardmode 25 man TOC. That is a total of 50 players out of 11M. I don't think Blizzard has anything to worry about making the game too easy.

If you go to wow-heroes.com, as of NOW, on my server, calestrasz, there are like only 20 guilds who have clear anything in TOC 10, out of >200. None has cleared everything. ONLY 6 guilds have down any TOC 25 boss.

It will be months before even half of the guilds are having any of these in farm.

 

 

Maybe the game has gotten too boring, the rewards uninspiring that most raiding guilds can't find the motivation to bother with the new content.

Their hearts just aren't in it.

Or maybe all the really good raiders have left the game and the 2nd string can't cut it. 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  templarga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/04
Posts: 1982

9/09/09 9:11:44 PM#57
Originally posted by googajoob7
Originally posted by templarga
Originally posted by googajoob7

I ve often felt the point when the game started to go downhill was when Blizzard introduced faster leveling .I found it interesting the mmorpg.com also decided to run an article on a topic which many past and present WOW players are voicing concern . The game has become far to easy and aimed at the casual and younger player in general . It why a lot of long term players have left or are thinking about leaving . Blizzard will have to address this sooner or later because they cant just rely on the subs of casual players .

Then who should have cater too? The 2% hardcore audience that grow bored in 2 months because they breeze through any and all content and then unsubscribe? The FFA PVP crowd?

Sorry the game's base is casual, it will continue to be casual and WOW will do fine relying just on casual players.

And by the way, casual players are not always younger and vice versa. The most casual players are the 30 somethings like myself that have been in the market for years and do not have the 10-12 hours a day to play anymore because we have kids, homes, jobs, etc.... We are the real casual player and by no means a "younger player".

Because its getting so easy even casual players will get bored of the content within 4-6 months . it ll eventually lead to players staying for shorter periods of time before they move onto something new or more challenging . which is ok if you want WOW to be the entry level mmo . We can assume its already losing a lot of players given Blizzard havnt released subscription figures since last december ( even the situation in China would nt have stopped them releasing figures for the west if they were good )
 

Its simple if your happy in an mmo which gets progressivly easier and are willing to see the things you obtain become obsolete once every two years with each new expansion pack then Warcrafts the game for you . Blizzard dont have any respect for players that have stayed with game over years and invested time and money in it . You see the problem runs a lot deaper than what goes on in WOW its how Blizzard do buisness . short term profit over long term gameplay .

While they are ultimatly a buisness and in it to make money you have to maintain a certain sence of credibility in buisness or you lose money in the long term . And Blizzard are fast losing thiers as will become apparent in the coming months and years .

Yep and that was said before BC launched, before WOTLK launched and has been said repeatedly for months on end. I guess if it is said enough, one day it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

What people don't understand is that Blizzard continually adds players. Look at sales charts and WOW is still a best seller over and over, month to month. New players are constantly being added to the game. And these players are new to MMO's and new to WOW. They don't know EQ from the NGE or SWG from Noob. They play WOW because it is a fun game.

Many, many posters here forget this. I would guess-timate that 75-80% of WOW's playerbase have only ever played WOW and aren't actively looking for MMO alternatives. If they do, they find out that most games aren't WOW. This is why games like WAR, AOC and even Aion I believe, see huge numbers to start but then huge drop-offs in players. For these players, WOW is it and if the game isn't more fun than WOW, they won't play it.

We who post here are not the mainstream MMO player anymore. We are the old school elites. We are not the target audience for MMO's anymore. We are a niche. We (well some of us) want sandboxes and FFA PVP. We want our EQ's and Planetside, not TOR and DCUO.

This is why players are so split over WOW. WOW is the market, it is the mainstream game and it is what MMO's have become, be it good or bad. WOW and games like it are the future of MMO's......just look at the games that are coming out. Like it or not, that is how it will be.

  Drowdruchii

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/09
Posts: 1

9/09/09 9:12:27 PM#58

I persoanly don't think any Hardcore gamer will ever fully understand a Casual gamers mind set, as pretty much any one who is casual really gets the point of breing Hardcore.

The suggestion that casual players will walk away in a few months is wishful thinking (for the Games demise) at best, most of the folks I pay with are Casual. A guild with over 50 members all dedicated to just having fun. As the poster a couple of posts above said, most of us are in our 30's, have at least 2 lvl 80 chars, some of us many more.

We can do 10mans and Heroics happily, but due to family comitments can't get 25mans off the ground, although members of our guild have been known to go with raiding guilds to make up the numbers so some have experienced it.

We're not going anywhere, all of us are desperate for Cataclysm, to lvl new alts, see new content, and I assure you we will have lots of fun doing so.

Regarding the thing about folks wanting to walk around in epic gear and get the Ooo's and Aaa's they used to, well thats been replaced now by achievements surely. Stuff like the 'Immortal' title, or even something goofy like the 'Insane' title is much more likely to make me raise an eyebrow than any items of gear. Its those kind of titles that show a hardcore individual now, not what epics they are wearing ?

 

 

  Dargok

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 14

9/10/09 12:06:12 AM#59

If it took you this long to seriously realize that Blizzard has gone off the deep end for the casual gamers, then that is incredibly sad. Once patch 2.0 came out, it was plainly obvious to people who didn't even play the game that is where they were headed. I mean really, gender confused elves on the Horde side and Space Goats on the Alliance was just the start of their quick trek downhill.

All your MMOs are belong to me.

  sanicek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 367

9/10/09 2:24:35 AM#60

I see casual, hardcore and other completely meaningless terms being thrown around and posts and implications made based upon some random definitions of these. There are however several factors to consider, raw time invested, gaming skill, schedule, in game activity preference, etc. A person can play 15 hours a day and still be a simply bad gamer and capable of simple quests at best.

To get the best gear in the game, which is how you progress once you are on lvl cap, you don't particulary need huge amounts of time, you however need skill and being able to keep schedule, since raiding is an activity you have to organize among many players.

WOW shifted to provide rewards for players with both not enough time (quick epic drops in 5 mans, slowly gathering badges, dailies...) and at the same time to those that lack skill, you know, those who stand in fire (again dailies, farming 5 mans, quests, grind achievements... ). This happens more and more every expansion and major patch. Raid content is getting trivial, catered to guilds populated by in-fire-standers. Last little hope are the hard modes, which are not that very hard anyway.

Gear lost any kind of uniqueness, models are completely the same, I guess to make the ones incapable to get the higher item level pieces to feel good, since they can still look the same as a raider geared in full hard mode loot. Epic is no longer epic at all.

Seems most people are under the assumption that MMO is about (solo) quests, especially leveling part. Personally if I play PVE MMO, I do it for cooperative PVE, ie dungeons. Sadly the 5 mens got completely trivial, no CC is ever needed, the party just zooms through the instance. The new(WOTLK) 5 man dungeons are generic, short and boring, again catered so they can be done in 30 minutes or farmed for badges. Gone are the days of magical journeys to BRD or UBRS or having a challenging 5 man dungeon (last 1 was probably Magisters Terrace, while at it, compare the difficulty and effort needed in that incarnation of epic dropping 5 man vs the current incarnation of epic dropping TOC).

This is one of the subjects that could be discussed ad nausea, in fact its happening all the time on many boards in many topics.

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