Originally posted by Torak

"Eve has some of the crappiest PvP in a game."

I agree. I like sandbox games and I like PvP and EVE has both but....

It's not my cup of tea to say the least.

I experimented a bit and put a "space" wallpaper on my work PC and worked on some spreadsheets...and it was just like playing EVE....true story!

I dont understand why would you think EVE pvp is a spreadsheet? The heart pounding in my chest is real when I'm flying something hail marry that I just really dont want to lose.

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

Originally posted by demolishIX

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

There are only so many skills that govern your performance in an individual ship.  If you focus your training, It doesn't take very long to train a ship to the point where you are a near mirror of a 5 year vet in the same ship. 

But to be honest, you completely failed to realize that Eve is ultimately a team PvP game.  As long as you can provide a service (tackling, logistics, EW,  DPS, etc) you will be welcome into most fleet PvP gangs as long as you can follow orders.

Eve is -actually- much more newb friendly in that respect than any other MMOs.  Where you literally have to reach level cap and have good gear to compete at the highest levels.  You can fit a Rifter that's tackle worthy in less than a week, and play an important part in killing those 3+ year players.

In Eve, a newb in a fleet is making that fleet stronger.  Always.

In WOW/WAR/etc, a newb in a group is making that team weaker by taking the place of a potentially much stronger player.

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Originally posted by demolishIX

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

This is a really uninformed opinion.

First off, if you're looking for 1 on 1 PvP, forget about it. There is a harsh death penalty, so why not bring friends? That said, a well equipped (and most importantly, group with good teamwork) can take on 3/1 odds no sweat.

With that statement out of the way, you're dead wrong about noobs never catching up. Within a couple of months you can be fully skilled up in interceptors/assault ships. meaning you can fly inties just as well as any pro player in the game. A month or 2 more and you can be fully skilled up in battlecruisers/cruisers/covert ops.

No, you can't be good at everything at once (at least not right off the bat). Specialize, think of it as picking a class.

What I think is you went into the game and tried to play it solo. You need to find a  good corp, get a good group of buddies, and if you aren't capable of doing that, eve isn't the game for you, try X3 or some single player space game.

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.  

When presented with an obstacle, a -good- EvE player will look at it from all angles and then metagame the fuck out of it.

See, in your position I would have warped off and come back with some mates and learnt from the experience. Perhaps asked the guy who blew you up for pointers and he probably would have told you what im about to.

In eve a player can be useful in PvP 15 minutes after character creation, there is no other game in existance where a brand new pilot can contribute to a high "level" group in the same way as a tackler can in EVE. The only barrier to getting into PvP in eve is your own ability, Solo, 1v1 a newer player can beat a more experienced pilot with the right strategy and fitting, focus your training and be as good as me very quickly.

I have 44 million skillpoints, thats about 3 years worth. I can fly HACs and recons for 3 races, battleships for another 3, interceptors, bombers, assault frigs, etc. When flying any of the above im using at most 5 million of those skillpoints. So you can "catch up" in about 3-4 months, but skillpoints dont win fights, ships and pilots do.

I like the megathron verses the arbitrator as an example. Battleship costing about 300 million verses a 10 million cruiser that requires perhaps a tenth of the training time, who wins? A PvP vet will bet on a smart arbitrator pilot, a WoW player will be on the mega.

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

Looking at your posting history your just a WoW fanboi. Now wile i dont play Wow i respect it. Its the community i dont like [looks at Horusra].

Try the guildwars forum or the AOC forum if you want a Testostorone contest. They are more immature so should rise better to your baiting.

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

Let me guess you either....

1. Went into lowsec space within a few days of first starting.

2. Went and Explored 0.0

Im not suprised you couldnt hack it. and so you know i have a 7 month old charecter in EvE that can compete with the best of them because skillpoints dont matter as much as it would seem from the outside as EvE is not just about skills as WoW is just about levels and gear.

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

 

Let me guess you either....

1. Went into lowsec space within a few days of first starting.

2. Went and Explored 0.0

 

Im not suprised you couldnt hack it. and so you know i have a 7 month old charecter in EvE that can compete with the best of them because skillpoints dont matter as much as it would seem from the outside as EvE is not just about skills as WoW is just about levels and gear.

Is that the only line EVE fanboys ever say?  You couldnt hack the messed up game mechanics so you left?       Maybe its; no im not going to pay CCP for 7 months so I can pvp.     It just isnt pvp, the crafting system is just as messed up, they should put on the box youll never be able to compete with Vet crafters since it would take more investment than profit; since your competing with Uber skilled crafters that can sell cheaper than you ever could.      Thats the other thing that turned me away, what kind of game makes the crafting system and game economy Vet freindly and if your not a Vet dont waste your time it will never be worth it       

This game has possibilitys Ill grant you that.  But before that can happen CCP will have to change the game mechanics or it will always hover with the same 50k fanboys it has attracted.     Who wants to spend months grinding boring missions while watching thier training cue slowly turn over?   Cause thats all this game offers the new player.  

OMG !!!! you are crazy to post something like this.. All those EVE Nazi will eat you alive.

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

 

So much is wrong with the game, when I tried out pvp, it was always some guy with 2 or more years of built up skills playing pirate ganking newbies.     I did try to stick around and pvp but learned in about 3 secs it was better to jump out cause the guy had long range missles that  in a couple shots had my shields down.    EVE will never be a pvp game for new players.    Its not structured for it, the way the game is set up makes it impossible for a new player to get into pvp.    And its a let down to see that youll never catch up to the guy thats sitting on 3 or more years of skills devoted to pvp.    

This is why I dont think EVE will ever grow beyond its drawbacks and why it turns away a good deal of people that would be willing to play the game.    If you play the game for a couple months youll see that you have absolutly no chance of ever taking on the Vets in this game.     And why pvp in EVE is always a gank fest.    

 

Let me guess you either....

1. Went into lowsec space within a few days of first starting.

2. Went and Explored 0.0

 

Im not suprised you couldnt hack it. and so you know i have a 7 month old charecter in EvE that can compete with the best of them because skillpoints dont matter as much as it would seem from the outside as EvE is not just about skills as WoW is just about levels and gear.

Is that the only line EVE fanboys ever say?  You couldnt hack the messed up game mechanics so you left?       Maybe its; no im not going to pay CCP for 7 months so I can pvp.     It just isnt pvp, the crafting system is just as messed up, they should put on the box youll never be able to compete with Vet crafters since it would take more investment than profit; since your competing with Uber skilled crafters that can sell cheaper than you ever could.      Thats the other thing that turned me away, what kind of game makes the crafting system and game economy Vet freindly and if your not a Vet dont waste your time it will never be worth it       

This game has possibilitys Ill grant you that.  But before that can happen CCP will have to change the game mechanics or it will always hover with the same 50k fanboys it has attracted.     Who wants to spend months grinding boring missions while watching thier training cue slowly turn over?   Cause thats all this game offers the new player.  

Messed up pvp and crafting? 50k fanbois?

Why are you trolling?

I understand you don't like the way things are in Eve but seriously you are really off the mark with your last post.

I have a great deal of new players crafting in my corp that are making a massive amount of isk crafting shit and trading to different regions for mass profit.

Pvp is a bit war like and  unfair I agree but that's just how the game is designed. People like the game this way, if we wanted fair arena combat we would play Guild wars.

As for new players only running missions and watching a skill queue you have no idea what your talking about. I can start a character today and train into a t1 frig for tackling within two days and pvp with my friends.

I don't understand why someone would need to train forever. You could get into a cruiser, grab meta 3 or 4 mods and be really competitive within a week.

Originally posted by teco221

OMG !!!! you are crazy to post something like this.. All those EVE Nazi will eat you alive.

Dude, he's so off the mark most Eve fans will ignore his post.

Did general Washington wait for the British to accept his duel request after he crossed the Delaware on Christmas eve? I think not. He gave them a fucking cannonball through their ranks. Merry Christmas.

It's simple really.

Eve simulates fighting for your life in a very unforgiving world.

This is true in combat and this is true in industry.

New people come in to the game and are very successful.  This happens all the time.  These are the type of people that look at a problem, innovate, and solve it.  These are also the kind of people that don't cry when they get kicked in the teeth because they screwed up.

Those of us that LOVE that kind of challenge LOVE eve.  I loved it from week one even though I got my ass kicked as a noob.

Those of you that want "PvP" to be some friendly, fair, and risk-free endeavor have plenty of other games.

We only have eve, and we love it the way it is.  Game subscription numbers keep growing because eve provides something that people can't find anywhere else.

If you don't like eve that is FINE but for the love of god quit coming in here and crying like little girls about it.

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

competing with Uber skilled crafters that can sell cheaper than you ever could.      Thats the other thing that turned me away, what kind of game makes the crafting system and game economy Vet freindly and if your not a Vet dont waste your time it will never be worth it

Well, once again you are just flat out wrong. Sorry, but you're just showing your ignorance here. Production efficiency can only be trained to level 5 (about 2 weeks) and that is the only skill that reduces material requirements. A 2 week newb will produce an item with the same costs as a 2 year old vet given the same BPO.

A newbie fresh out of the tutorial can compete with the biggest industrial alliances in the game with a bit of thought, find the market gaps, find the cheaper way to get the materials and prosper. Handy tip for any EVE newbies reading who want to get into production is to find a mission running system and set up buy orders for modules that the rats drop, reprocess that and use the minerals to build ammo to sell to the mission runners.

The richest people in game are traders who dont need any skillpoints whatsoever to make isk, they just buy low and sell high. I've just started training an alt to do manufacture and eventually invention and seem to be doubling my isk every week (half a billion now after a month), of course this is an optical illusion as its impossible for me to compete with vets.

They need to add Arena for fair fights in empire for people who don't like the open PVP. You know like 1 v 1, 2 v 2 upto 5 v 5.

Eve is not about fairness. Its about risk. I'll let somebody else comment on the arena thingy...I'm not going to give myself a headache.

Originally posted by Varny

They need to add Arena for fair fights in empire for people who don't like the open PVP. You know like 1 v 1, 2 v 2 upto 5 v 5.

eve already has 1v1 and 5v5 and 5000 vs 5000 if they feel like it, they just dont force you into any situation because they leave it up to the players in sandbox games like eve to set the terms.  if you want set level and numbers forced arenas play wow i guess.

Originally posted by Varny

They need to add Arena for fair fights in empire for people who don't like the open PVP. You know like 1 v 1, 2 v 2 upto 5 v 5.

This would be really out of place in eve.  What would be the point? In eve fights happen for a reason.. either someone wants to kill you and steal your stuff, someone is defending their space,  or quite possibly someone just enjoys causing suffering.

What you are describing sounds like a game of checkers,  played just to see who wins.

There are plenty of other games that offer this kind of "sparring match"....  why should it be in eve?

Ppl who says EvE have the crappiest pvp dont know s*** about PvP in a MMO.

PvP is not a arena pretty boy... For that you have cs , street fighter , tetris or pro evolution etc .

Why eve is the BEST MMO ? because there you will fight every day to survive , EVERYONE want a piece of your sucess.

In EvE you have objectives since day one..... there is no end game... you have to fight for territory, for your home, and you will fight to survive .

You will cry... you will come to forums and cry more...

IN EVE THERE IS NO RESPECT ...!!!

YOU WILL BE A SHEEP OR A WOLF !

you will see in this game what you are made of... and others will see too !

come and stay if you can... but stop crying if you are made of FAIL !!

And come on .... dont come with bla bla skill points and veterans kill you.... that only shows that you are alone and know how to use that thing above your neck ... find other sheeps make a gang and come to fight as a man .

Someone told that eve dont have a good crafting.... this can only be a big joke... -.-
 

Originally posted by Varny

They need to add Arena for fair fights in empire for people who don't like the open PVP. You know like 1 v 1, 2 v 2 upto 5 v 5.

They already have an Alliance Tournament every year or so. It's like the superbowl of Eve.

Fair fights and teams train all year round for it.

Those teams easily train against others in their alliance to get ready for all sorts of situations.

Its not hard coded into the game like WoWs arena.  it's player run, with real player announcers and video channel.

I've been following this years tourney like its the freaking world cup, the first two days so far have been amazing and much more exciting than what you would see in WoW.

To address some of the misguided statements...  I'm a casual Eve player, but have a fairly varied experience.

First, Eve PvP isn't about ship vs. ship combat, as previous posters have said.  It's about accumulating resources and protecting those resources.  If I'm buying cheap on the market and selling expensive, if people are buying from me, someone else is losing to me in a market competition.  Ship v. Ship PvP isn't about shooting one another.  It's about protecting an asteroid belt or a wormhole or an entrance to your territory.  Ultimately, Eve is a fight about resources, not a fight about whose ship or skills are the best.

Newb players can get into big time PvP right out of the gate.  One of the biggest alliances in game, Goonswarm, welcomes newby players, provides free frigates when they lose theirs, provides training, and gets you into fleet battles right out of the gate.  There is no 7 month lag.  There are other requirements for membership, but it's an example.

Likewise, there are always corps recruiting in the recruitment channels.  There's Eve University, which is a corp that just aims to teach new players about Eve.  Most of them are more than happy for newbys to join up.  You usually start with a tackling frigate set up.  You get blown up a lot, but you're participating right out of the gate and you're learning.  At the same time, your skills are growing and you're getting ready for that cruiser or battlecruiser.

As far as ship combat goes, 99% of ship combat I've been involved with is ancillary to some other activity.  For instance, we were trying to build stations in some 0.0 system to gain sovereignty (and mine moon rocks or conduct research or build giant ships or whatever we were doing) and we want to protect those stations from some guys who want to destroy those stations.  It wasn't just because some guy happened by and we decided it'd be fun to shoot at him.  There was a specific reason for us to do so.  Of course, in 0.0, a lot of alliances has "Not Blue Shoot It" rules in effect, so they just shoot you because they don't know you.  That's a form of resource protection as well.

Some corps and alliances are just about piracy or mercenary activity.  Those guys are using ship combat for extortion or some other method of making lots of money.  Again, it's not usually about looting the wreck, although that can be lucrative at times.  It's about extorting ISK or getting paid by some other third party for making someone else's life miserable.  Why would a third party pay some corp to attack another corp?  They're protecting some resource or other.  Either that, or they're run by some immature people and are just trying to make a point.

As far as 1v1 ship combat goes, hang outside of any number of stations where large numbers of mission runners are.  They'll drop cans outside of the station.  If you loot the can, it allows you to legally shoot one another.  That's where you'll find the 1v1 ship combat.  It's not my thing.  It just seems a waste of ISK when I could be using my ship to make ISK, but if that's your thing, go for it.  Eve has room for all of these things.

You just have to figure out how you want to play the game and play it.

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

Listen, in real life you wouldn't go count your gold in a back alley in the middle of the night, so just because you decide to mine in 0.0 all alone and you get ganked doesn't mean anything about the PvP.

Only that you like to QQ. Go play WoW kthxbai

---

Originally posted by Horusra
10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

---

Team play and co-operation are lame? If so, EVE got indeed very crappy PVP.

Don't walk alone into enemy gang and call them losers because they outnumber you...it is you being lost and on place you should not be at.

Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

Fully agreed.

Eve was good at some point  around its start but slowly CCP destroyed the pvp fun of the game promoting bigger organizations and numbers in order to force people to play more than 1 account etc..

Guess once one shakes the golden egg chicken it eventually stops laying eggs..