These same players who now all shout its an great patch are the ones who quit when they reach skill cap.

Casuals ex-themeparkesr have for months now keep making topics and whine game is to hard to much grind and ask for dumbdown well devs are weak so they bow and got what they got.

These same players ex-themeparkers whiners all these months are also the ones who have afk-macroed bloodwalled and exploit, maybe few exceptions but i see what whiners ingame do and say they whine and then go cheating bah:(

But the sad thing is the original hardcore players quit becouse game to easy and ex-themeparkers quit becouse they have reach end game when they reach skill cap.

Many will have high magic soon and find out there still owned and suck so they all quit or keep whining or go to forum nerf  this nerf that.

Thats the reality how it stands now.

Im half way avarage with my skills i play 6 months and play alot thats how it should be, not in few weeks max skills if you want that go play one of these silly thmepark games.

Most are little kids that wanne pawn own but bored fast and move on to next mmo do you want that to happen with darkfall.

And dont come with bloody excuses that you be owned when step out of race/clantowns becouse i play solo wear always plate armor and with avarage skills like rigor on 50 defence on 32 and win some lose some but still have fun.

All who afk-macro or bloodwall or exploit are carebears in my book and you are the ones that ruin this great game:(

Originally posted by Evasia

These same players who now all shout its an great patch are the ones who quit when they reach skill cap.

Casuals ex-themeparkesr have for months now keep making topics and whine game is to hard to much grind and ask for dumbdown well devs are weak so they bow and got what they got.

These same players ex-themeparkers whiners all these months are also the ones who have afk-macroed bloodwalled and exploit, maybe few exceptions but i see what whiners ingame do and say they whine and then go cheating bah:(

But the sad thing is the original hardcore players quit becouse game to easy and ex-themeparkers quit becouse they have reach end game when they reach skill cap.

Many will have high magic soon and find out there still owned and suck so they all quit or keep whining or go to forum nerf  this nerf that.

 

Thats the reality how it stands now.

Im half way avarage with my skills i play 6 months and play alot thats how it should be, not in few weeks max skills if you want that go play one of these silly thmepark games.

 

Most are little kids that wanne pawn own but bored fast and move on to next mmo do you want that to happen with darkfall.

And dont come with bloody excuses that you be owned when step out of race/clantowns becouse i play solo wear always plate armor and with avarage skills like rigor on 50 defence on 32 and win some lose some but still have fun.

All who afk-macro or bloodwall or exploit are carebears in my book and you are the ones that ruin this great game:(

This makes no sense to me. The ones who exploited have already reached the skill caps. All they're doing is leveling the playing field for those who refuse to grind away like a bunch of monkeys. If grinding is what you want to do go play a Korean game. It's all they are.

I think you confuse themepark games and easy games.

Themepark games doesn't have to be easy kid games. And Sandboxgames doesn't have to be hard.

However to change the difficulty a lot after release is dangerous. That way you will lose the old fans, and you have to get new ones. It worked out for Wow but I think it is a misstake for DF.

Smaller games should try to make it's faithful fans happy, if they try to get in new players they shouldn't do something that makes the older player quit. SWG tried this and it almost killed it.

I don't really think DF is the type of game that will interest the general gamers no matter how easy you make it, so they should focus on making the game better for the players already liking it like Eve did, that way the current players will slowly spread the word and the subs will grow.

QFT. Short sighted scrubs always think anything easier is better. They will be the ones crying here and on the official forums when the game is dead in six months. They will be too stupid to connect the dots to the easy mode character advancement and will probably blame it on something else. The level of cluelessness regarding fundamental MMORPG design is staggering.

I replied in the other thread before seeing you made your own thread with these dire predictions, so I'll just copy my thoughts.

If for you, EZ-Mode is a game that reduces the curve for obtaining skill gains, that's your opinion. To me, all this change in mecahnics did was reduce the distance between casual players and those who simply have more time to play. DFO at its core is a PvP Game. As such, we have no "Auto Targeting", no "see 360 degrees around you", no "radar to warn of enemies", and a "full loot drop at death" penalty for dying. Hitting TAB and pressing a button to attack is EZ-Mode. Dying and getting a free trip back to ones bind stone with no other loss is EZ-Mode. Being sure of who the enemy is, and where they are is EZ-Mode. Clearly, our ideas of what makes a PvP Game easy, and what doesn't is very different.

-CC
 

You shouldn't need to macro grind all day to raise a skill to reasonable levels. Skill ups should be naturally raised through gameplay style and player choice due to funfactor.

DF needed a rebalancing, the skills took too long and way too many people cheated and are near cap already.

That change improves DF easymode of not.

The patch went a little over board, but it was still needed for the betterment of the game. Now all thats need is for AV to balance the playing styles against each other or at least make melee useful as a primary source of damage. This can easily be done by making buffs and debuffs useable in combat or giving melee and archery utility skills.

PS: I can type in colors too :P

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

This makes no sense to me. The ones who exploited have already reached the skill caps. All they're doing is leveling the playing field for those who refuse to grind away like a bunch of monkeys. If grinding is what you want to do go play a Korean game. It's all they are.

^ Nailed it.

I'm not sure about your definition of what's hard OP, but I'm sure it's not forcing the players to do a task for countless times, like the korean grinder games are known to do well... It's boring, bland and shows nothing but a game that lacks real content besides a huge carrot-on-a-stick grind. Honestly, If the MMORPG is great, everyone will have plenty to do even after "maxing out" their characters (sadly many of them do not fit that criteria).

As always the fanboys blame the evil " themepark " gamers.

Increasing your skills through actual combat!!??! Nonsense!!!111!!11!1

Well, I think that the reduced grind is a step in the right direction. However, because there is no decay nor cap/specialization/limited skill pool, in a while it'll be a clone wars. I really can't understand why something as simple as decay or caps are not present in the game (specially because the concept followed the game for many years).

As it is, yes, I think this change will be detrimental to the game in the long run. Even if they change it later on, too many people will be maxxed out, and this will certainly cause issues with the playerbase.

Let's see how the situation develops.

 But its fun to watch people that thing maxout skills is gonna help them in combat, and they still loose every time : )

Really doesn't make sense -- grinding or making skills easy to level -- why have skills at all, if everyone has max skills and no caps (similar to UO where you can only master 7 skills).  With everyone with max skills it's like you typical shooter.... In my mind Darkfall waisted half there production on making skill level system that everyone will have a max in.

 But not everyone is interested in max skills. Some just want to have fun playing.

Anyway, Isnt it the same with all other MMOs? Whats the point with levels in WoW if everyone will just have the max level?

Originally posted by daarco

 But not everyone is interested in max skills. Some just want to have fun playing.

Anyway, Isnt it the same with all other MMOs? Whats the point with levels in WoW if everyone will just have the max level?

Your train of thought would be correct if all WoW players were Mages. Heck, even in WoW Mages need to specialize somehow (Arcane, Fire, Frost). You can't have all the goodies, so you must think where you want to get.

Access to all skills without any limitation breeds kraftwërk builds: Everyone will converge to the same "best" spells. It'll be boring as hell. It's a game of convergence, not individuality.

Some want fun and that's great, really. However, when the game penalizes your playstyle, you start to wonder if fun is really fun. Try playing exclusively with Dual Berettas in Counterstrike for a month, for roleplaying purposes. It'll be a blast in the beginning, however it gets old really fast.

My point is: is there any good reason to keep this skill system? Wouldn't it be nice to have the opportunity to be a little different from the other players, skill-wise? And, most importantly: do you think this system will be successful, when people can play several other title?

Some points are veryy much valid

However easy you make this game it wiill not appeal to general and casual players.

My biggest problem was the time factor Being a casual player ( work,kids etc) losing all your stuff instantly was too harsh and time consuming for me
I am not complaining about the PVP but at least for me hardcore PVP was very much time consuming to manage

Being said that I am going to reactivate my account and see what changes are in

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Evasia

These same players who now all shout its an great patch are the ones who quit when they reach skill cap.

Casuals ex-themeparkesr have for months now keep making topics and whine game is to hard to much grind and ask for dumbdown well devs are weak so they bow and got what they got.

These same players ex-themeparkers whiners all these months are also the ones who have afk-macroed bloodwalled and exploit, maybe few exceptions but i see what whiners ingame do and say they whine and then go cheating bah:(

But the sad thing is the original hardcore players quit becouse game to easy and ex-themeparkers quit becouse they have reach end game when they reach skill cap.

Many will have high magic soon and find out there still owned and suck so they all quit or keep whining or go to forum nerf  this nerf that.

 

Thats the reality how it stands now.

Im half way avarage with my skills i play 6 months and play alot thats how it should be, not in few weeks max skills if you want that go play one of these silly thmepark games.

 

Most are little kids that wanne pawn own but bored fast and move on to next mmo do you want that to happen with darkfall.

And dont come with bloody excuses that you be owned when step out of race/clantowns becouse i play solo wear always plate armor and with avarage skills like rigor on 50 defence on 32 and win some lose some but still have fun.

All who afk-macro or bloodwall or exploit are carebears in my book and you are the ones that ruin this great game:(

 

This makes no sense to me. The ones who exploited have already reached the skill caps. All they're doing is leveling the playing field for those who refuse to grind away like a bunch of monkeys. If grinding is what you want to do go play a Korean game. It's all they are.

I was exspecting this kind of answer its funny you guys can't undertsand what i mean lol, but you prolly never will :(

I personally would prefer it if skills would simply level up slower and slower, or if their influence would become smaller and smaller, the higher they are, instead of a fixed cap.

That way people can't simply level the stuff up to the max, and are also kinda freed from feeling to have the urge to do so to be competetive, because they would be no max per se but rather a point where you four yourself would consider it not beeing worth the effort.

Originally posted by ChinaCat

I replied in the other thread before seeing you made your own thread with these dire predictions, so I'll just copy my thoughts.

If for you, EZ-Mode is a game that reduces the curve for obtaining skill gains, that's your opinion. To me, all this change in mecahnics did was reduce the distance between casual players and those who simply have more time to play. DFO at its core is a PvP Game. As such, we have no "Auto Targeting", no "see 360 degrees around you", no "radar to warn of enemies", and a "full loot drop at death" penalty for dying. Hitting TAB and pressing a button to attack is EZ-Mode. Dying and getting a free trip back to ones bind stone with no other loss is EZ-Mode. Being sure of who the enemy is, and where they are is EZ-Mode. Clearly, our ideas of what makes a PvP Game easy, and what doesn't is very different.

-CC
 

 

Lol you reply by explaining how Darkfall works hahaha priceless:P

And still you dont get it do you?

I know you said that you did not macro/exploit thats great so i presume you play as me just natural development right?

But i had a great time np with grind and pvp i followed this game for years and years and it was always mentioned this game was hardcore only, it seems you had a rough time first six months frustrated this game was so hard lol.

I on the other hand just played this game as it always was intended a mmo that you gonne play for years NOT EASY MODE AND MAX SKILL IN 1MONTH.

Thats why you make no logic at all you say you play legit but now i realy doub you ever did and that you even care for Darkfall.

You just want a easy game dumbdown so you can catch up and all those other casuals.

I on other hand want a mmo thats hard and not easy to get to skill cap as DARFALL alwasy was intended to be you guys RUIN this game bah:(

Ban all those bloody cheaters afk-macroers thats what should have happen not come up with solutions to make game more easy so most can catch up with CHEATERS WTF is that why devs think so stupid to fix cheater problem by making game more easy.

And game is no grind all who say that just dont know how to play this game and just pls go some bloody themepark you all dont belong in Darkfall.

But as minority i will eventually lose to all ezmode casual gamers hardcore games is dying genre im affraid.

Devs have abandon there hardcore followers and try make game playable for ex-themeparkers bah:(

Originally posted by maji

I personally would prefer it if skills would simply level up slower and slower, or if their influence would become smaller and smaller, the higher they are, instead of a fixed cap.

That way people can't simply level the stuff up to the max, and are also kinda freed from feeling to have the urge to do so to be competetive, because they would be no max per se but rather a point where you four yourself would consider it not beeing worth the effort.

That is the concept of DarkFall just applied not to a single skill but to all skills available. I remember the quote in the journal about  that ..something along the lines of  'being able to learn every skill to max but would take a looong time to complete'.

But players (especially these WoW generation) have no patience anymore - maybe the whole western society lives not for long term goals but just for an imidiate and shortsighted satisfifaction of the next need -

The firstand quickiest way  in DF it was 2-handed mellee. Who does not remember the early days of how uber 2-handed mellee was and everyone and his mother claiming it.  Meanwhile some time past and the guys with more patience used ranged and decry and whine was big on forums on how ubber archery now has become  and everyone should use bow the funny thing is how those guys said to anyone that magic is useless lol.

Then the first masters in magic appeared prooving the fact that invest in long term goals pays off  and (and forced the archer / mellee guys  to bloodwalling lol ) and the decry of how magic is so ubber now is so big.

Wonder about what the crybabies will be bitchy at next  lol

Originally posted by Evasia

Devs have abandon there hardcore followers and try make game playable for ex-themeparkers bah:(

You have just got to let go of your hatred of "theme-park" players, they are not what ruined games for you.  EQ1, DAOC, Lineage 2 all had challenging grinds back in the day, and almost everyone agrees early FFXI was one of the toughest games out there, and yet all were theme parks by your definition.

It is the flood of casual players to the market (who normally have come in through theme park games) that have encouraged developers to cater to their play styles because they want their subscription money.

Given a choice between 50-100K 'hardcore" fans and potentially double that or more, and you can count on the Dev's chasing the money.

Unfortunately,  as someone else mentioned, in a niche game like DF it is very important for Developers to be careful to not drastically alter the game play so much that it alienates the original players while chasing the new subs.

Its a tricky balance, and games such as SWG, DAOC and others failed to maintain it.

WOW, EVE and others have been more successful in drawing in more people than they lost by making the game easier to play.

Of course, there are players of both games (myself included) who did not care for the changes (in WOW anyways) and I left because of them.  They probably gained 5 subs with their changes to my one lost one, so it was a net win from their viewpoint.

Its too early to tell Evasia if your disatisfaction with the recent changes will alienate a large portion of the core player base, or if you are just an anomoly which will easily be replaced by 5 new subs which would be  true AV's goal.

People always forget one thing, game developers, musicians and actors do not really perform their craft for the love of the art, no matter what they say, its almost always about the money in the end.

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by ChinaCat

I replied in the other thread before seeing you made your own thread with these dire predictions, so I'll just copy my thoughts.

If for you, EZ-Mode is a game that reduces the curve for obtaining skill gains, that's your opinion. To me, all this change in mecahnics did was reduce the distance between casual players and those who simply have more time to play. DFO at its core is a PvP Game. As such, we have no "Auto Targeting", no "see 360 degrees around you", no "radar to warn of enemies", and a "full loot drop at death" penalty for dying. Hitting TAB and pressing a button to attack is EZ-Mode. Dying and getting a free trip back to ones bind stone with no other loss is EZ-Mode. Being sure of who the enemy is, and where they are is EZ-Mode. Clearly, our ideas of what makes a PvP Game easy, and what doesn't is very different.

-CC
 

 

 

Lol you reply by explaining how Darkfall works hahaha priceless:P

And still you dont get it do you?

I know you said that you did not macro/exploit thats great so i presume you play as me just natural development right?

But i had a great time np with grind and pvp i followed this game for years and years and it was always mentioned this game was hardcore only, it seems you had a rough time first six months frustrated this game was so hard lol.

I on the other hand just played this game as it always was intended a mmo that you gonne play for years NOT EASY MODE AND MAX SKILL IN 1MONTH.

Thats why you make no logic at all you say you play legit but now i realy doub you ever did and that you even care for Darkfall.

You just want a easy game dumbdown so you can catch up and all those other casuals.

I on other hand want a mmo thats hard and not easy to get to skill cap as DARFALL alwasy was intended to be you guys RUIN this game bah:(

Ban all those bloody cheaters afk-macroers thats what should have happen not come up with solutions to make game more easy so most can catch up with CHEATERS WTF is that why devs think so stupid to fix cheater problem by making game more easy.

And game is no grind all who say that just dont know how to play this game and just pls go some bloody themepark you all dont belong in Darkfall.

But as minority i will eventually lose to all ezmode casual gamers hardcore games is dying genre im affraid.

Devs have abandon there hardcore followers and try make game playable for ex-themeparkers bah:(

So basically slow character development = hardcore for you?

I understand where you are coming from and I know that Aventurine initially intended to have this but seriously, you think the game is not hardcore anymore because they are making it easier to level?  If you truly believe that then you must believe that the amount of playtime someone has solely determines how hardcore they are.  Me personally, I do not believe that and this is where I agree with CC.  The slower character development is not the only thing that makes it hardcore.  Things like full loot and no auto target contribute to the the "hardcoreness" of DF.   That being said, even with the faster character leveling I still consider (and maybe even most? who knows?) this game to be hardcore because this game still seems to be "harsh".

Lastly, don't blame the "ex-WoW" or the "ex-themeparkers", they just want a more even playing field with the macroers.  You blame the macroers for cheating, and Aventurine for not finding other solutions to curb this problem.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

That is the concept of DarkFall just applied not to a single skill but to all skills available. I remember the quote in the journal about  that ..something along the lines of  'being able to learn every skill to max but would take a looong time to complete'.

Sorry. This is absurd. In a year DF will be "The war of Über-Clones". I like habilities games more than level ones, but if everybody can be the best archer and the best warrior and the best mage and the best healer and the best manufacturer, it is irreal and unfun.

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Evasia

These same players who now all shout its an great patch are the ones who quit when they reach skill cap.

Casuals ex-themeparkesr have for months now keep making topics and whine game is to hard to much grind and ask for dumbdown well devs are weak so they bow and got what they got.

These same players ex-themeparkers whiners all these months are also the ones who have afk-macroed bloodwalled and exploit, maybe few exceptions but i see what whiners ingame do and say they whine and then go cheating bah:(

But the sad thing is the original hardcore players quit becouse game to easy and ex-themeparkers quit becouse they have reach end game when they reach skill cap.

Many will have high magic soon and find out there still owned and suck so they all quit or keep whining or go to forum nerf  this nerf that.

 

Thats the reality how it stands now.

Im half way avarage with my skills i play 6 months and play alot thats how it should be, not in few weeks max skills if you want that go play one of these silly thmepark games.

 

Most are little kids that wanne pawn own but bored fast and move on to next mmo do you want that to happen with darkfall.

And dont come with bloody excuses that you be owned when step out of race/clantowns becouse i play solo wear always plate armor and with avarage skills like rigor on 50 defence on 32 and win some lose some but still have fun.

All who afk-macro or bloodwall or exploit are carebears in my book and you are the ones that ruin this great game:(

 

This makes no sense to me. The ones who exploited have already reached the skill caps. All they're doing is leveling the playing field for those who refuse to grind away like a bunch of monkeys. If grinding is what you want to do go play a Korean game. It's all they are.

 

I was exspecting this kind of answer its funny you guys can't undertsand what i mean lol, but you prolly never will :(

I understand, as I am sure others do.

What it all boils down to is the fact that the type of people that play "T.he W.ay I.t I.s I.ntended ™", WILL NOT be in sufficient numbers to support the game.

Even with that, Aventurine's skill system was never fully tested by "real" people, and now they are going to pay the price for not investing the money nor time to do so.

That's why we are seeing all this now. That's my opinion of course. 

So the people that play 24/7 for 3 months till they reach the cap

and then quit the game because "there is nothing more left to do" are the REAL supporters of the game???

Why this doesn't make any sense at all ?

If i play "as intended" i am about to play much longer then people that macro day and night!

its a different mindset... i am in for the FUN! Not for maxing my character out and then quit..

so while i have fun i'll stay.. and pay.

Macroers, power gamers, expoiters and all this bunch of loosers can go.... game will be much better without you.

Originally posted by Evasia

These same players who now all shout its an great patch are the ones who quit when they reach skill cap.

Casuals ex-themeparkesr have for months now keep making topics and whine game is to hard to much grind and ask for dumbdown well devs are weak so they bow and got what they got.

These same players ex-themeparkers whiners all these months are also the ones who have afk-macroed bloodwalled and exploit, maybe few exceptions but i see what whiners ingame do and say they whine and then go cheating bah:(

But the sad thing is the original hardcore players quit becouse game to easy and ex-themeparkers quit becouse they have reach end game when they reach skill cap.

Many will have high magic soon and find out there still owned and suck so they all quit or keep whining or go to forum nerf  this nerf that.

 

Thats the reality how it stands now.

Im half way avarage with my skills i play 6 months and play alot thats how it should be, not in few weeks max skills if you want that go play one of these silly thmepark games.

 

Most are little kids that wanne pawn own but bored fast and move on to next mmo do you want that to happen with darkfall.

And dont come with bloody excuses that you be owned when step out of race/clantowns becouse i play solo wear always plate armor and with avarage skills like rigor on 50 defence on 32 and win some lose some but still have fun.

All who afk-macro or bloodwall or exploit are carebears in my book and you are the ones that ruin this great game:(

At 1st, i was like go back to runescape to raise your skills the highest possible only to a goal of pwning players with less skills then you, but when i decided to read further, i was right yeah, you are right at 100% Fuck those players who wanted an RS kind of grind