Originally posted by lethys

It seems all the fanboys come out and say "Oh, you're complaining because you want SWG2."  This is not the case.  I want a Star Wars MMO that doesn't seem to take even more steps towards isolating players than the genre already has.  Sure, story is important.  I love Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls, and will also probably love Dragon Age Origins.  I, however, play MMO's for the social aspects and I doubt it will deliver on that front.

 

Yes, we'll see other people in cities, big deal.  Half of them are people you'll never interact with anyway.  Give us a reason to get into groups the way Warhammer did with Group Questing, as everyone who has played that game knows it is the only good to come out of it.

You get to complete the story with your friends. How is that taking a step backwards? You're interacting with each other and a friendly NPC, then enemy NPCs when you get to the combat part. I highly doubt there will be no incentive at all to group up... ever.

While there is a good focus on the story itself, no one has said that you will be forced to go thru the story from start to finish and then thats it.  From what i've seen and read, I kinda picture Guild Wars but in an open environment like WoW , Everquest or other traditional mmo's.

Just two cents from someone that also played SWG:

I'm bloody glad this isn't SWG 2. I'm bloody glad SOE aren't involved. I'm bloody glad that Bioware have decided to come out swinging with their first entry into the mmoRPG market.

I soloed to 90 on SWG and no, not with an entertainer or trader, not even with a shabla jetiise... Er sorry, my roots are showing, I soloed Commando and Officer, both to 90. So tell me again how SWG's forced grouping mechanics after the update that shall go unnamed is somehow better than being able to actually choose your style and run with it.

ToR looks better and better every time a dev posts or a community manager leaks or an interview is done. I'm salivating for a title that puts the RPG back in gaming without taking me away from my online friends.

Originally posted by Draccan

New article on Massively

 

A quote: "Especially since you've got such a strong singleplayer element in the story and choice features, how important is grouping to Star Wars: The Old Republic?

Blaine: I think it's a very important message we want to get out right now, because there's a lot of questions out there. People are saying, "Okay, we see it, we get it. It looks like a BioWare game and that looks like a singleplayer experience." We really want to make sure that it's clear that it's not [a singleplayer game]. Obviously what we've shown so far are the new things we're trying to bring to the MMO space, but grouping is going to be very important.

The closest demonstration we've had so far is where we show the flashpoint where we've got the the Sith Warrior grouped up with the Bounty Hunter. That's a grouping experience, and that includes your story experience, which is something we want to be sure people are clear on. When you're grouped, it doesn't impede the story whatsoever, so you can still progress the story as a group. It's not a singleplayer experience in any way, shape or form.

That said, if you want to do solo play that's something that you can do as well. It's a goal of ours to make sure that we cater to all those play styles. It someone is like, "I don't wanna group, I wanna play a BioWare game. I wanna go through the story and do things on my own." you can do that. You're gonna see other people running around the world, as you would in any other MMO. On the other hand, if you want to group you're gonna be able to go through the game that way as well."

 

I think Bioware and I have different ideas about what makes a mmorpg MASSIVE !?!!?!

 

 

 

 

Lol Why do you feel the need to make 2000 repetitive threads detailing how you will not likely play this game? We heard you the first time, unless you forgot after a week what you said last week. WTH is wrong with you? Do you think we care? Are you still waiting for your cookie, cause we have none to give you. xD

Originally posted by lethys

It seems all the fanboys come out and say "Oh, you're complaining because you want SWG2."  This is not the case.  I want a Star Wars MMO that doesn't seem to take even more steps towards isolating players than the genre already has.  Sure, story is important.  I love Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls, and will also probably love Dragon Age Origins.  I, however, play MMO's for the social aspects and I doubt it will deliver on that front.

 

Yes, we'll see other people in cities, big deal.  Half of them are people you'll never interact with anyway.  Give us a reason to get into groups the way Warhammer did with Group Questing, as everyone who has played that game knows it is the only good to come out of it.

well, you came to their forums and you're surprised because? lol

Originally posted by lethys

It seems all the fanboys come out and say "Oh, you're complaining because you want SWG2."  This is not the case.  I want a Star Wars MMO that doesn't seem to take even more steps towards isolating players than the genre already has.  Sure, story is important.  I love Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls, and will also probably love Dragon Age Origins.  I, however, play MMO's for the social aspects and I doubt it will deliver on that front.

 

Yes, we'll see other people in cities, big deal.  Half of them are people you'll never interact with anyway.  Give us a reason to get into groups the way Warhammer did with Group Questing, as everyone who has played that game knows it is the only good to come out of it.

"Half of them are people you'll never interact with anyway"?  Isn't that how every single MMO works?  What kind of ridiculous point are you trying to make?  I never played with half the people I saw in EQ, EQ2, FFXI, WOW, CoX, SWG... shall I go on?  Not because I didn't group, just because there were so many people.

And yes, WAR had great Public Quests but it actually had the worst "normal grouping" I have ever seen because everybody wanted to do Public Quests or PvP.  But by no means was WAR the first game to "give us a reason to get into groups".  I grouped all of the time in EQ and in FFXI you couldn't do squat without a group (when it first came out at least). 

I did a lot more soloing in SWG than many other MMOS.

Did it ever occur to you SWG Fanboys that these instanced flashpoints in TOR will be extremely difficult and require a group to complete?  And that there may be plenty of quests in the non-instanced areas that will allow solo and group quests?

I am amazed how SWG fans can be so blinded.

It finally clicked to me tonight why all the butthurt about BW making SWTOR a story driven MMO that you have the option to solo or group.  Why they continue to press for forced grouping and saying since grouping isn't the bread and butter of the game it's not an MMORPG and sucks.  It is because they can't hack it in MMOs without someone to hold their hand.  They need a group to get them through the leveling process or a guild to tell/show them where to go and what to do and who to kill.  These are the same players that get to the endgame/raiding off other peoples backs with great gear and still don't know how to play their class.  They level through instances so that there is always someone there to cover their butts when they screw up or don't know what they are doing.  Most of you have played with these people.  Some are prolly in your guilds right now, I know they are in mine.

These players know that good players will get to the end content if they have to solo, group, eat babies, or steal old ladies pensions.  They just want to make sure they can latch on and hold on for the ride so they can continue thinking they are l33tsauce.  Or I could just be raging from priests that join money runs and have never mind controlled, ever and the excuse is I just healed dungeons to level.  Glad SWTOR is getting rid of the healing class and making everyone hold their own, too.  

Originally posted by StuBidasoe

It finally clicked to me tonight why all the butthurt about BW making SWTOR a story driven MMO that you have the option to solo or group.  Why they continue to press for forced grouping and saying since grouping isn't the bread and butter of the game it's not an MMORPG and sucks.  It is because they can't hack it in MMOs without someone to hold their hand.  They need a group to get them through the leveling process or a guild to tell/show them where to go and what to do and who to kill.  These are the same players that get to the endgame/raiding off other peoples backs with great gear and still don't know how to play their class.  They level through instances so that there is always someone there to cover their butts when they screw up or don't know what they are doing.  Most of you have played with these people.  Some are prolly in your guilds right now, I know they are in mine.

These players know that good players will get to the end content if they have to solo, group, eat babies, or steal old ladies pensions.  They just want to make sure they can latch on and hold on for the ride so they can continue thinking they are l33tsauce.  Or I could just be raging from priests that join money runs and have never mind controlled, ever and the excuse is I just healed dungeons to level.  Glad SWTOR is getting rid of the healing class and making everyone hold their own, too.  

Actually they're ex-SWG players who forgot how solo playable SWG pre-cu really was and just like to throw temper tantrums. It wasn't till the CU when grouping became required like in EQ2 and they know it, and people bitched about that when it happened. Now they are crying because BW said you can play this game solo (like pre-cu SWG)

Honestly these folks just enjoy complaining and arguing. Once the game launches they will either shut up and play it, or find another game to complain about and troll. It's just a pathetic cycle. I would be more annoyed by it if it wasn't for the fact that I knew they were full of BS, and changing no ones mind who is already interested. It's laughable at best.

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by lethys

It seems all the fanboys come out and say "Oh, you're complaining because you want SWG2."  This is not the case.  I want a Star Wars MMO that doesn't seem to take even more steps towards isolating players than the genre already has.  Sure, story is important.  I love Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls, and will also probably love Dragon Age Origins.  I, however, play MMO's for the social aspects and I doubt it will deliver on that front.

 

Yes, we'll see other people in cities, big deal.  Half of them are people you'll never interact with anyway.  Give us a reason to get into groups the way Warhammer did with Group Questing, as everyone who has played that game knows it is the only good to come out of it.

 

well, you came to their forums and you're surprised because? lol

Exactly. What the hell do these idiots expect when they come to a forum and start demanding that the game be changed into the exact opposite of what it is going to be? That's just  rude and inconsiderate so they shouldn't ge their panties in a bunch if a few folks bite back. I notice they get away with that crap on the SWG forum (even though they have a VET forum made specifically for them) but that garbage doesn't fly here.
 

This thread needs more cowbell... err random dead bird spawns.

I really like how people complain that the game is solo-able. Yes in MMOs you get to play with other people, but why should you always be FORCED to play with others? I love playing with friends, going on quests, doing raids, etc. but sometimes I want to be alone and just craft or explore or maybe do a quest alone.

In the end, any feature that is brought into a game is going to be bashed, even if the evidence supporting that bashing is completely erronous. I'm not attacking anyone in this post, nor trying to attack anyone. Just stating a point.

Let's wait for the game to come out, then bash it all to hell. *rolls eyes*

To OP.

Dear Draccan, please ignore any post after you, and above mine, for they didn't answer your question.

As such, allow me to address your concern.

Your question is:.... is SWTOR a MMO?

Let us get this straight first.

MO = Multiplayer online, something like XBOX Live? Around Hundreds of players online at 1 time.

MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online.

Massive = Crapload of people

Multiplayer = alot of players

Online = Online

So MMO = Crapload of players online at any one time.

So Draccan, you may be right when questioning whether this is a MMO or not, as that passage only shows what? 1 sith + 1 hunter + a few other players running around equals to what? 10 players? That is not a MMO in anyway!

That is pure BS if Bioware said its a MMO, BULL i say!

So you maybe right OP, but... its too early to judge a game simply base on 1 passage.

I think it will be better until they release the numbers of how many players their server can hold at any one time to see whether this is indeed a MMO or not.

To me if a server can hold any where around 5000 players or more, than yes, its a MMO. But different players have different standard.

If you are looking for 10k, 20k or even.... 300k?!!!!

Than may i suggest Eve online.

That is 1 s^&#% crapload of mass org%$^^:)...y  of players online together!

SO YOU GO THERE BROTHER! AND YOU WILL FIND HAPPINESS!

Until than, let us wait for Bioware to announce there server load before we say whether its a MMO or not.

Like i say, ignore them, and embrace mine.

Regards...

I think it'll be like anyother MMO but with storyline quests for each class. There will still be other quests in the world and everything else to do but you'll have a interesting storyline aswel. It's like in Age of Conan where you have them storyline quests once in awhile as you reach a certain level.

 If you watched the 4 part video of the Dev walkthrough, then you would understand that yes this is massive and it is an MMO in a normal sense with extra elements such as a FLASHPOINT.

Too many ppl are assuming that the whole game is like the flashpoint where the Sith and Bounty Hunter were teamed up in.  They forget about the cave where the Sith had to kill the creatures which was shown in the dev walkthrough and they forget about the smuggler hiding and shooting.  Those two scenes were just like any other MMO.

"Oh really?  Then where were all the other people running around?"

It was a dev walkthrough, which means no one else was playing.

If you don't understand what a FLASHPOINT is, then consider this.  From what I can tell, and no I haven't played the game so I don't know for sure, the flashpoint is a like an instance or a dungeon if you will.  In other words, your character along with another or by yourself can go into this flashpoint area and do the mission.  No one else will be in there because it is instanced to you and your group.  Just like World of Warcraft's Onyx Lair or something similar.

The closest think to compare a flashpoint to would be a mission in City of Heroes.  You open a door and you are now in your own mission or with a group in your own mission.

I would assume that the flashpoints are not for every quest/mission but are for special occasions that call for a story element.

Originally posted by arctarus

To OP.

Dear Draccan, please ignore any post after you, and above mine, for they didn't answer your question.

As such, allow me to address your concern.

Your question is:.... is SWTOR a MMO?

Let us get this straight first.

 

MO = Multiplayer online, something like XBOX Live? Around Hundreds of players online at 1 time.

MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online.

Massive = Crapload of people

Multiplayer = alot of players

Online = Online

So MMO = Crapload of players online at any one time.

So Draccan, you may be right when questioning whether this is a MMO or not, as that passage only shows what? 1 sith + 1 hunter + a few other players running around equals to what? 10 players? That is not a MMO in anyway!

That is pure BS if Bioware said its a MMO, BULL i say!

So you maybe right OP, but... its too early to judge a game simply base on 1 passage.

I think it will be better until they release the numbers of how many players their server can hold at any one time to see whether this is indeed a MMO or not.

To me if a server can hold any where around 5000 players or more, than yes, its a MMO. But different players have different standard.

If you are looking for 10k, 20k or even.... 300k?!!!!

Than may i suggest Eve online.

That is 1 s^&#% crapload of mass org%$^^:)...y  of players online together!

SO YOU GO THERE BROTHER! AND YOU WILL FIND HAPPINESS!

Until than, let us wait for Bioware to announce there server load before we say whether its a MMO or not.

 

Like i say, ignore them, and embrace mine.

 

Regards...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too bad the OP never asked a question.  Which means your entire post = FAIL.

He wrote "I think Bioware and I have different ideas about what makes a mmorpg MASSIVE !?!!?!".  Now, I realize he put a few question marks at the end but the words he wrote hardly resemble a question.  They are clearly a statement.  Maybe he got confused when he was typing all of those exclamation marks...

I realize you are trying to sound snooty or intelligent but that fails as well.  Since you clearly did not read the threads before you wrote one (genious advice btw), just read Thornrage's post before this one and it explains a lot.  Or you can ignore my advice and continue sounding uninformed in your posts.  The choice is yours.

In the meantime, keep on trollin' buddy.

Personally I'm okay with this game not being "massive."  I don't have time to gather up 10, 20, 40 other people to see some content.  At this point in my life I'm perfectly content if 100% of the game is small group content (3-4 people).  That way I can play with my personal friends and don't have to worry about being forced to be online for fear of being left behind.

Looking forward to TOR.

i dont know if it is just the femininity in some of you that just need to vent or your igonroance, but i dont see anywhere near enough information about this game yet to say that its linear, non massive, single player, or anything else. i know we are all dying to know what the meet and potatoes of this game is all about, but you guys are really assuming thats ts linear, or single player. No one here can show the evidence that states this. no one hear can show a quote of a bioware dev saying the game will be all single player, or mainly single player. You also cant show a quote where they say its going to be linear. I have actually seen the bioware devs say teh opposite, like they did in the OPS quote. And finally noone can show me a quote that the bio ware devs say there is no MMO functions in this game.

You guys gotta just be patient. All this assuming is what makes a good situation look like its bad.

Originally posted by Thornrage

 If you watched the 4 part video of the Dev walkthrough, then you would understand that yes this is massive and it is an MMO in a normal sense with extra elements such as a FLASHPOINT.

Too many ppl are assuming that the whole game is like the flashpoint where the Sith and Bounty Hunter were teamed up in.  They forget about the cave where the Sith had to kill the creatures which was shown in the dev walkthrough and they forget about the smuggler hiding and shooting.  Those two scenes were just like any other MMO.

"Oh really?  Then where were all the other people running around?"

It was a dev walkthrough, which means no one else was playing.

If you don't understand what a FLASHPOINT is, then consider this.  From what I can tell, and no I haven't played the game so I don't know for sure, the flashpoint is a like an instance or a dungeon if you will.  In other words, your character along with another or by yourself can go into this flashpoint area and do the mission.  No one else will be in there because it is instanced to you and your group.  Just like World of Warcraft's Onyx Lair or something similar.

The closest think to compare a flashpoint to would be a mission in City of Heroes.  You open a door and you are now in your own mission or with a group in your own mission.

I would assume that the flashpoints are not for every quest/mission but are for special occasions that call for a story element.

I have been saying this for a long time, yet they fail to understand. More proof that they are impatient children throwing a fit because they can't have it now.

Originally posted by Mystik86

Nowhere in that piece of information was there anything to suggest how big or small the world itself would be. So how do you figure it's non-massive? I mean, come on...

It's called straws

Someone is grasping for them

A flashpoint is when you make a decission that affects your characters path, it has nothing to do with the instanced portions of the game.

Originally posted by Draccan

New article on Massively

 

A quote: "Especially since you've got such a strong singleplayer element in the story and choice features, how important is grouping to Star Wars: The Old Republic?

Blaine: I think it's a very important message we want to get out right now, because there's a lot of questions out there. People are saying, "Okay, we see it, we get it. It looks like a BioWare game and that looks like a singleplayer experience." We really want to make sure that it's clear that it's not [a singleplayer game]. Obviously what we've shown so far are the new things we're trying to bring to the MMO space, but grouping is going to be very important.

The closest demonstration we've had so far is where we show the flashpoint where we've got the the Sith Warrior grouped up with the Bounty Hunter. That's a grouping experience, and that includes your story experience, which is something we want to be sure people are clear on. When you're grouped, it doesn't impede the story whatsoever, so you can still progress the story as a group. It's not a singleplayer experience in any way, shape or form.

That said, if you want to do solo play that's something that you can do as well. It's a goal of ours to make sure that we cater to all those play styles. It someone is like, "I don't wanna group, I wanna play a BioWare game. I wanna go through the story and do things on my own." you can do that. You're gonna see other people running around the world, as you would in any other MMO. On the other hand, if you want to group you're gonna be able to go through the game that way as well."

 

I think Bioware and I have different ideas about what makes a mmorpg MASSIVE !?!!?!

 

 

 

 

All the current MMO's out there (well few exceptions like EVE Online) are linear.  AOC, Warhammer Online, Champions Online, AION, etc...  all these MMO's are linear.  You take the same quests each time with the same outcome. 

At least with TOR your decisions change the story, this adds a lot of replayability.  Also the story telling is only one aspect of this MMO, there will be PvP and group areas for doing dungeons and what not.

As much as I would like to see a sandbox SWG 2, I'm happy with what Bioware is giving us.  I'm a big fan of there other games and I'm pretty sure ill like TOR also, even tho it won't be a big sandbox like the original SWG was.

at PAX the devs said that you can play it with one class and do the quests, and then play it with another class and never see the same quests you played on the other side. Its not linear, it is massive so stfu

There's a quote from one of the designers somewhere..basically said, "content will be directed, but it won't be linear. You'll always know where you need to go."

Whatever the hell that means. Not sure if I got the quote right, not gonna look for it.

the videos makes it look really un-massive , I hope the world will be open and there will be fun "world-pvp" like in the good days, though I doubt it.. oh well.

The two things that have me slightly worried are:

1. In one of the videos the presenters posed themselves a question... "Why did you not make KOTOR 3? and the answer was "We made KOTOR 3, 4, 5 ,6... but made them into an MMO." I hope not, because KOTOR and MMOs are completely different.

2. Why are we not seeing any other aspects of MMO... crafting, other playable races, other quests outside of the storyline...  without those, it's just a MO.

I'll still play it, but I doubt the game will have any longevity if it doesn't offer what a standard MMO offers.

i know they have only given us 20 minutes of gameplay, but i cannot imagine Mounts OR crafting in this game.

is it just me?