Originally posted by Einstein-DF

I like how the MO fans come out in droves and start shittalking DF with darkfail and scams and all the other good stuff, when it's completely unrelated to the article.

 

Perhaps you guys should keep quiet and continue bug testing and supporting the game, which is what it needs considering MO's beta right now.

 

Just saying.

Come out in droves? There was like one person in the whole thread who said something bad about DF and the first one to mention DF was a guy who tried to downplay MO by saying that it's just copying DF.

Stop trying to play the victim here. Just saying.

Its really good to see that soon, we will get 2 choice of game that are clone of UO with fpv gameplay. I play DF at the moment and i started when the grind had been reduced and pvp is fun now for even newbs and average players. We can now kill vets if we play better.

But when mortal online will release, thats where i will be because im a fan of oblivion and MO gameplay kind of follow it more.

Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR

I think Mats made it pretty clear that their intention is not to make a mainstream game, but something more similar to EVE, a game which is also challenging and not for everyone, yet still has a very strong and growing following. 

 

Eve has every feature they dislike or will not be using, making my point. It is still a unique game, with common to the genre features while still having unique game play and a niche appeal. The rest of your post is part assumptions to my meaning, and lack of comprehension.

Those features, and being niche are not mutually exclusive.

I would also be careful in assuming that niche games are not for someone, you never know who your talking to.

Could it work out? Maybe. Will it? Signs point to no, as this is not the first game to even try.

First off, first person view does not work in an MMO unless you offer it as an option.  The vast majority of players want to see what they are wearing.  I don't grasp how posters think they need first person view for immersion. 

Secondly this game is just not ready.  They really need at least another year, which of course won't happen so all the initial players will be essentially paying to beta test it.

It is a shame we are getting these half done or poorly done games in this niche, most of us are still waiting for a decent MMO to fill it.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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It's very easy to see that many of the systems in modern MMO's are there to actually take away from the amount of player skill and player-to-player (PtP) interaction needed, whether it is minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat etc. It makes them fun and gives them a flow, but it also makes them casual as anyone can play without much thought (and that's also where the big money is). Now obviously we want Mortal Online to be fun to play and successful, but we're not ready to make compromises on our design principles: Player Skill, Player Interaction and PvP, Immersion and Believability. Therefore a lot of the features one would expect to see in a modern MMO are different, or we have simply removed them.

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This is full of fail.

 

Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?

 

Different for the sake of different.

...

You know where to put your troll comment.

 

 

Good and valid opinions, to which I agree to a certain extent. To the parts I don't agree, others have neatly summed the arguments previously in this thread, so I refrain from iterating them.

Didn't say you were a troll, it just came out that way when spurting out comments like that with no meat to back it up. Why didn't you just include your comments in your first post, if you didn't want to come off as a troll? (no need to answer that actually)

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

Eve has every feature they dislike or will not be using, making my point. It is still a unique game, with common to the genre features while still having unique game play and a niche appeal. The rest of your post is part assumptions to my meaning, and lack of comprehension.

Those features, and being niche are not mutually exclusive.

I would also be careful in assuming that niche games are not for someone, you never know who your talking to.

 

Could it work out? Maybe. Will it? Signs point to no, as this is not the first game to even try.

EVE is a sci-fi game, they can justify having advanced positioning systems and displaying a great amount of data to the player. MO will take place in a medieval low fantasy world, where technology is not nearly as advanced, so it simply wouldn't make sense to implement them if one wishes to strive for realism, as MO developers clearly do.

If you feel the rest of my post had too many assumptions then you simply should have made your points in a more clear fashion, since I'm confident I have no problems with comprehending the English language.

And of course those features can be incorporated into a sandbox MMO, but the MO devs simply chose not to do so, since they feel their approach encourages more direct player to player interaction, which in my mind is what MMORPG's should be about.

Also, I did not assume a single thing about your playing preferences, I was speaking in general.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

First off, first person view does not work in an MMO unless you offer it as an option.  The vast majority of players want to see what they are wearing.  I don't grasp how posters think they need first person view for immersion. 

The people who wish to see what they are wearing can use mirrors, water reflections, or a paperdoll which will be added to the character/inventory screen.

You don't grasp how posters think they need FPV for immersion, I don't grasp how people can get immersed in a game that does not have FPV. It's a matter of preference and that's that.

While Mortal Online does sound full of potential, it smells far too much of some of the things that make Darkfall a truly awful experience.

Specifically full loot = people who have min-maxed butchering noobies/taking their stuff and generally turning them right off the game before they really start getting into it.
Skills good if done right. Darkfall = blood walls = Epic Fail.

think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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It's very easy to see that many of the systems in modern MMO's are there to actually take away from the amount of player skill and player-to-player (PtP) interaction needed, whether it is minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat etc. It makes them fun and gives them a flow, but it also makes them casual as anyone can play without much thought (and that's also where the big money is). Now obviously we want Mortal Online to be fun to play and successful, but we're not ready to make compromises on our design principles: Player Skill, Player Interaction and PvP, Immersion and Believability. Therefore a lot of the features one would expect to see in a modern MMO are different, or we have simply removed them.

---

 

This is full of fail.

 

Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?

 

Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.

Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed.  Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.

They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong.  You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false.  It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun.  Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.

Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes.  Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers.  Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.

The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact.  There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO.  You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game.  You're the armchair developer in this situation. 

 

 

 

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Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR
MO will take place in a medieval low fantasy world, where technology is not nearly as advanced, so it simply wouldn't make sense to implement them if one wishes to strive for realism, as MO developers clearly do.

---

---

most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.

---

Say it again, at some point, you will believe it if you say it enough.
 

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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It's very easy to see that many of the systems in modern MMO's are there to actually take away from the amount of player skill and player-to-player (PtP) interaction needed, whether it is minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat etc. It makes them fun and gives them a flow, but it also makes them casual as anyone can play without much thought (and that's also where the big money is). Now obviously we want Mortal Online to be fun to play and successful, but we're not ready to make compromises on our design principles: Player Skill, Player Interaction and PvP, Immersion and Believability. Therefore a lot of the features one would expect to see in a modern MMO are different, or we have simply removed them.

---

 

This is full of fail.

 

Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?

 

Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.

Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed.  Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.

They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong.  You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false.  It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun.  Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.

Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes.  Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers.  Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.

The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact.  There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO.  You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game.  You're the armchair developer in this situation. 

 

 

 

 

Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.

"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."

Best paragraph ever.

 i love the FIRST PERSON VIEW ONLY idea in a mmo like this 

it will make aven an easy mode game become very hard 

imagine playing  wow in fpv only wow ,talk about hard mode ,most player dont believe how hard a game become 

i wish more game had server blocked to fpv

Originally posted by aleos

"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."

Best paragraph ever.

Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.

I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".

  Guess I'll just wait for MO to implement large scale pvp ala sieges and watch it's development till then. No harm done, at least they are open about it.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by aleos

"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."

Best paragraph ever.

 

 

Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.

 

I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".

 

LOL, it seems to have gotten your panties in a knot.  Do you happen to be one of those simpletons?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.

 

My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say.  We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.

 

My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say.  We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.

Or, you could read what I type, and not insert your own assumptions, then attack me on the basis of those assumptions.

Because it leaves me no reason to clarify anything.

But you knew this.

Originally posted by grimfall

 

My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say.  We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.

How else do you think he has so many posts.  He posts some stupid shit, others like you call him on it, then he posts twenty more times calling into question your reading comprehension etc.