Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Obviously some people here are either burned out on MMOs or don't like MMOs anyway. Which begs the question why do they even post here?

If you came into Aion with expectations that it would be "innovative" and not use the mechanics established and proven successful in other games, then the problem is yours, not Aion's.

Aion is what it said it would be: an MMO with some unique features but with the basic framework of a standard MMO. If I owned an MMO company this is the exact route I would take if I *wanted to make money*. The same gamers who clamor for something completely new/innovative in an MMO are the same people who would not put their money down on such an MMO because it's too different from other successful MMOs.

Not at all.  I'm very much looking forward to Fallen Earth going live.  I enjoy EVE from time to time.  And I definitely miss my SWG days.  Also sorry that POTBS had to die the death of stagnation.  Coming up, I'm keeping an eye on SWTOR (who isn't), Star Trek Online, and Infinity : The Quest for Earth.  But thanks for your attempt at a diagnosis, doctor. I am not diagnosing--I'm just making an observation based on what you wrote. Nothing that you said here changes my observation. You are looking for something that Aion never promised.

I didn't come with any expectations at all.  You did. You came expecting some innovative and different. I came due to boredom.  Exactly. You wanted to relieve that boredom. You expected Aion to do that for you, but when you saw that it had very few "innovative" features built on top of the same old proven MMO mechanics, you continued to be bored. This is what I found.  I wrote it down.

That isn't the route I'd take if I wanted to make money if only because a relatively small fraction of such ventures have been successful in any significant degree, most from a winner IP boost.  I played LOTRO, I kinda liked LOTRO, but same problem.  It's still going because it's LOTRO, not Generic Fantasy Kingdom Online. Thank goodness you don't run an MMO company. ;)

And hey, I pretty much only put my money down on those different MMOs. Good for you. You are a minority, and companies that make MMO know that you are minority. So, if you've got any more false assumptions to lay out, by all means. I made no false assumptions. Actually, you did, but it doesn't really matter now because Aion is not the game for you it seems.

Originally posted by dadown

If Aion matches WoW's packaging and is fun to play, I expect that it will do well. However, things like advertizing an open beta and then requiring a restricted distribution key, is not a good way attract happy players. I guess we'll see in another 6 months if it lives up to the hype.

The problem is, people really don't understand what an OB is.  Open Beta means the NDA is no longer in effect, not that just anyone can enter the game.

Most open betas these days do require keys.

Originally posted by AKABoondock

I don't believe that anyone on these forums or even NCSoft themselves have called Aion "Innovative" (other than char customization, which it is), so why is so important for you to tell us it isnt?. I would like to hear what you suggest for MMO-gamers to play instead. Yes, Aion is the same kind of MMO we have seen over and over. But you know what? Some people are actually INTO those games! I myself cant wait for Sep 20.

+1.

Originally posted by linren

Truthfully, I see so many wasted keys on the forum.  If only there were a way to transfer the key to another person...

 

so true ..i even seen people do nothing but sell the keys i handed to most of them ..or all they do is make a topic ''this game is crap, it will fail etc etc''  and continue to bash it, atleast try your best to come up with constructive critisism.

Originally posted by smellysocks

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Obviously some people here are either burned out on MMOs or don't like MMOs anyway. Which begs the question why do they even post here?

If you came into Aion with expectations that it would be "innovative" and not use the mechanics established and proven successful in other games, then the problem is yours, not Aion's.

Aion is what it said it would be: an MMO with some unique features but with the basic framework of a standard MMO. If I owned an MMO company this is the exact route I would take if I *wanted to make money*. The same gamers who clamor for something completely new/innovative in an MMO are the same people who would not put their money down on such an MMO because it's too different from other successful MMOs.

 

+1 and a kiss >.>

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

Originally posted by naraku209

Originally posted by AKABoondock

I don't believe that anyone on these forums or even NCSoft themselves have called Aion "Innovative" (other than char customization, which it is), so why is so important for you to tell us it isnt?. I would like to hear what you suggest for MMO-gamers to play instead. Yes, Aion is the same kind of MMO we have seen over and over. But you know what? Some people are actually INTO those games! I myself cant wait for Sep 20.

+1.

+2

Originally posted by Sunioj

Originally posted by USFPutty

Um.  Kinda, yeah.

I've gone over this in other posts, but more and more of these games have come out over the last few years.  People call them WoW clones.  This is inaccurate because WoW itself is pretty much a clone of what came before it.  They just balanced it a certain way and made it hit off just right in a way their predecessors hadn't quite managed.  And as a result, it became popular and profitable.  So many other companies have tried to make copies of a copy of a copy, but without the same resources.  They don't make them to make the game, they make them out of a misguided attempt to make WoW's money.  But you can't do that by making WoW.  They already did that.  You're not going to be successful copying a successful model in this industry because it's already there.  Why play the WoW-like game when you can just as easily play WoW.  Or Everquest?  Or LOTRO?  So, sure, people who played one may move to play the other by convincing themselves it's 'different', when in fact, what they like about it is the familiarity in a new disguise.

No, the next great game has to be DIFFERENT.  It has to have its own roots, its own flavor, its own inspiration.  It has to play different, feel different, taste different, and ask different things of the player.  Hopefully, more.  EVE grows daily; it is not the most popular kid on the block, but it is KNOWN, and it has its own identity.  And for certain, no one would ever mistake it for WoW.

That's the next great contender, and that's what I'M looking for.  Some people have come to Aion looking for that.  Some have come looking for something they've already played.  My purpose is not to tell people what to enjoy, it's to tell them what kind of enjoyment this is. 

But yeah, I completely think it's time people stopped remaking the same old shit and did something creative for a change.

  Okay, I see your point and understand it.  You have high standards, and you really expect hard work and dedication to create something really unique.  Not something cookie cutter.  I find no fault in that at all, It's just going to be a hard thing to do because so many people throw money at like for like games.  I'm guilty of that behavior myself.

:-) Thank you.

And I hate to say it, but my brother-in-law still plays WoW to my chagrin.  So I decided to try it and really give it a chance, and I couldn't for the life of me truly enjoy the game after about a month and a half.  I don't really care that I didn't get to 'endgame content', because that's really just a lot more of the same. 

I was not impressed with it., but I could see the elegance of the design and what they'd accomplished in making a game for the lowest common denominator.  This isn't a slam, per se.  It's a bow to a clear winner.

But what my brother-in-law was looking for was mindless fun and running around smashing things over and over as a mental break from his job.  I prefer a nuanced, detailed, and very interesting gaming experience.  I still do PnP gaming and I push the game beyond the books because I want more from the experience.  The same is true of my MMOs.

My MMO nirvana was as a Master DE/Master Shipwright/etc. in SWG.  Full-on crafting, and the crafting system was AMAZINGLY detailed.  But they killed it. :-(

His MMO nirvana is running around the same instances all the time raiding for phat lewt.

What can ya do?

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by Sunioj

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by smellysocks

Originally posted by USFPutty

Currently playing through this, and seriously, there is nothing particularly innovative or new going on here except perhaps the flight gimmick, but that alone isn't enough to render this a new experience of any kind.

The interface, gameplay, combat system, just about everything are the same stuff you'll see in WoW, EQ (either one), or any of a hundred other MMOs that have taken the same recipe for almost a decade, added a pinch of their own spices, and called it a new game.

So, if you like those games, enjoy!  This is more of the same, albeit prettier (and you can fly around!)  But if you're looking for something fresh, innovative, and interesting, take a pass and keep on lookin', cause you're not going to find any of that here.

 

Aion has quite a few unique features, it's not just flight, (which isn't unique) you forgot to mention the way stigma's work, chain skills (5 years old), lets not forget PvPvE instances , where both factions race to reach the end boss while fighting eachother, opens a lot of tactical options (EQ1 did this 11 years ago).

About the interface, you cant argue that every interface in every MMO looks the same, no interface is ''unique''  it's all taken from one game, then enhanced. You cant argue about that.  (I am pretty sure that he can argue anything that he wants.  It's entirely possible for a game not to have an interface with a mini-map, where your target is surrounded by a red circle, 10 hotkeys on the bottom of your screen linked to the 1-10 buttons on your keyboard etc)

The flight mode in Aion makes the combat system unique, once again you'll have alot of different ways of fighting once your in the air.

And dont forget the amazing character customization ! (Not unique, and it gets covered up by over stylized armor eventually anyway)

 

Have to agree with the opening post, this game has already been done before.  There's no innovation, just re-hash of other games' features.

 

So does that mean that no one should develop these types of games anymore?  Are you also saying that companies that create FPS games such as the Call of Duty series should not create anything else because someone else made a game with a gun and such?  This is a game that has elements from every other game out there, but it has a story, a very good game engine and I myself am having a blast playing it.  That is all that really matters in the end.  Don't you agree?

Um.  Kinda, yeah.

I've gone over this in other posts, but more and more of these games have come out over the last few years.  People call them WoW clones.  This is inaccurate because WoW itself is pretty much a clone of what came before it.  They just balanced it a certain way and made it hit off just right in a way their predecessors hadn't quite managed.  And as a result, it became popular and profitable.  So many other companies have tried to make copies of a copy of a copy, but without the same resources.  They don't make them to make the game, they make them out of a misguided attempt to make WoW's money.  But you can't do that by making WoW.  They already did that.  You're not going to be successful copying a successful model in this industry because it's already there.  Why play the WoW-like game when you can just as easily play WoW.  Or Everquest?  Or LOTRO?  So, sure, people who played one may move to play the other by convincing themselves it's 'different', when in fact, what they like about it is the familiarity in a new disguise.

No, the next great game has to be DIFFERENT.  It has to have its own roots, its own flavor, its own inspiration.  It has to play different, feel different, taste different, and ask different things of the player.  Hopefully, more.  EVE grows daily; it is not the most popular kid on the block, but it is KNOWN, and it has its own identity.  And for certain, no one would ever mistake it for WoW.

That's the next great contender, and that's what I'M looking for.  Some people have come to Aion looking for that.  Some have come looking for something they've already played.  My purpose is not to tell people what to enjoy, it's to tell them what kind of enjoyment this is. 

But yeah, I completely think it's time people stopped remaking the same old shit and did something creative for a change.

I kind of agree with this, but I do feel that there are still other options than 'completely different'. A true sandbox (in space, please dont say eve) done properly and well with fps type ship combat perhaps wouldn't actually need any real new ideas, just a conglomoration of existing ideas in a single package.

There are also other variations that with enough money and the right team will still make WoW type money.

Oh and ofcourse they'll probably need bliz making it too.

---

Originally posted by Ephimero
Cant see how UI programmin has been one of the biggest advances though, its gimmickish at best and you can play just fine without it.

---

It gives control of the UI over to the players so that the players can address all the minor annoyances that bug them with the game's UI that drive them absolutely freakin' bonkers. In both of my blog post and video on the topic I use the same example, Auction Houses lacking a price-per-unit (PPU) column. I am not kidding when I say it was one of the deciding factors on why I quit LotRO. I got sick of having no reliable way to know, at a glance, which items were cheaper. Sure, I can do the math by hand but there's no excuse for the game not to do it.

Without UI Programming I have to beg, and beg, and beg, and beg, and BEG the developers to address what is, rightfully so, an extremely low priority item for their development time. With it... I can either fix it myself or download an addon which someone else has done the work for me, and the developers!

Lots of popular games in recent years started their life as mods. Heck, lots of the new features in WoW's interface in the past several years were player written mods long before Blizzard took the core idea and bolted it into the main UI. The raid panel, floating combat text, raid warnings, multiple outfits and dual-spec all started life (or the modifications to them started) as addons in one form or another.

UI Programming increases the development force of the game by a far wider margin than the company itself could ever field. They only need to provide and manage the tools. Let the people who actually use the UI hours at a time tweak it to absolute perfection... for free.

Originally posted by smellysocks

No, the next great game has to be DIFFERENT.  It has to have its own roots, its own flavor, its own inspiration.  It has to play different, feel different, taste different, and ask different things of the player.  Hopefully, more.  EVE grows daily; it is not the most popular kid on the block, but it is KNOWN, and it has its own identity.  And for certain, no one would ever mistake it for WoW.

 

You really think any gaming company who developes a mmo, has the nerves to try something completely new ?, why would anyone with even half a brain develop a completely new mmo, that has completely different pvp, pve and how combat works.

it's called taking risks, i dont see any company, willing to try anything new and inovating, you either succeed and you win, or you lose and fail everything you invested in trying to make your own game, based on your own flavour, succesfull.

Everyone does it, they take out the good stuff from other mmo's and enhance them, develop it, and expand it.

Why would you bother making a totally new recipe, when the old one work just as great, all you have to do is enhance it, so it becomes more enjoyable.
 

Because it's none of those things, because it's the only way to keep creating a market, and because if everyone's selling the same shit, eventually, there's no one left to buy your particular brand of the same shit.

Originally posted by grimfall

 

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

Originally posted by mrw0lf

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by Sunioj

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by smellysocks

Originally posted by USFPutty

Currently playing through this, and seriously, there is nothing particularly innovative or new going on here except perhaps the flight gimmick, but that alone isn't enough to render this a new experience of any kind.

The interface, gameplay, combat system, just about everything are the same stuff you'll see in WoW, EQ (either one), or any of a hundred other MMOs that have taken the same recipe for almost a decade, added a pinch of their own spices, and called it a new game.

So, if you like those games, enjoy!  This is more of the same, albeit prettier (and you can fly around!)  But if you're looking for something fresh, innovative, and interesting, take a pass and keep on lookin', cause you're not going to find any of that here.

 

Aion has quite a few unique features, it's not just flight, (which isn't unique) you forgot to mention the way stigma's work, chain skills (5 years old), lets not forget PvPvE instances , where both factions race to reach the end boss while fighting eachother, opens a lot of tactical options (EQ1 did this 11 years ago).

About the interface, you cant argue that every interface in every MMO looks the same, no interface is ''unique''  it's all taken from one game, then enhanced. You cant argue about that.  (I am pretty sure that he can argue anything that he wants.  It's entirely possible for a game not to have an interface with a mini-map, where your target is surrounded by a red circle, 10 hotkeys on the bottom of your screen linked to the 1-10 buttons on your keyboard etc)

The flight mode in Aion makes the combat system unique, once again you'll have alot of different ways of fighting once your in the air.

And dont forget the amazing character customization ! (Not unique, and it gets covered up by over stylized armor eventually anyway)

 

Have to agree with the opening post, this game has already been done before.  There's no innovation, just re-hash of other games' features.

 

So does that mean that no one should develop these types of games anymore?  Are you also saying that companies that create FPS games such as the Call of Duty series should not create anything else because someone else made a game with a gun and such?  This is a game that has elements from every other game out there, but it has a story, a very good game engine and I myself am having a blast playing it.  That is all that really matters in the end.  Don't you agree?

Um.  Kinda, yeah.

I've gone over this in other posts, but more and more of these games have come out over the last few years.  People call them WoW clones.  This is inaccurate because WoW itself is pretty much a clone of what came before it.  They just balanced it a certain way and made it hit off just right in a way their predecessors hadn't quite managed.  And as a result, it became popular and profitable.  So many other companies have tried to make copies of a copy of a copy, but without the same resources.  They don't make them to make the game, they make them out of a misguided attempt to make WoW's money.  But you can't do that by making WoW.  They already did that.  You're not going to be successful copying a successful model in this industry because it's already there.  Why play the WoW-like game when you can just as easily play WoW.  Or Everquest?  Or LOTRO?  So, sure, people who played one may move to play the other by convincing themselves it's 'different', when in fact, what they like about it is the familiarity in a new disguise.

No, the next great game has to be DIFFERENT.  It has to have its own roots, its own flavor, its own inspiration.  It has to play different, feel different, taste different, and ask different things of the player.  Hopefully, more.  EVE grows daily; it is not the most popular kid on the block, but it is KNOWN, and it has its own identity.  And for certain, no one would ever mistake it for WoW.

That's the next great contender, and that's what I'M looking for.  Some people have come to Aion looking for that.  Some have come looking for something they've already played.  My purpose is not to tell people what to enjoy, it's to tell them what kind of enjoyment this is. 

But yeah, I completely think it's time people stopped remaking the same old shit and did something creative for a change.

 

I kind of agree with this, but I do feel that there are still other options than 'completely different'. A true sandbox (in space, please dont say eve) done properly and well with fps type ship combat perhaps wouldn't actually need any real new ideas, just a conglomoration of existing ideas in a single package.

There are also other variations that with enough money and the right team will still make WoW type money.

Oh and ofcourse they'll probably need bliz making it too.

I'm not saying they need to reinvent the wheel, here. :-)

The basic ideas are almost inevitably derivative.  But 'exploring space' is a broad goddamn stroke, and there is a lot of room for interpretation and implementation in that...uh...space.

You have EVE (sorry), then you have Jumpgate Evolution coming out soon-ish, the JtL expansion for SWG had some moments, and I'm really looking forward to Infinity.

It's not the CONCEPT that necessarily has to be orginal, but the PRESENTATION.  You can play 50 'space games' and they're all made in completely different ways, and some you're gonna like, and some are gonna suck.  Making one that doesn't suck, of any type of game, is hard.  Go look at a retail shelf and tell me which ones 'jump out at you'.  :-\

But it is possible to deliver a game with fresh content and new ways of doing things that feels far enough from anything else out there to be FRESH, without necessarily having to be an adventure into M.C. Escher's imagination.

And don't say Blizzard, please. :-)  I do NOT need 'World of Starcraft'.

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by smellysocks

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Obviously some people here are either burned out on MMOs or don't like MMOs anyway. Which begs the question why do they even post here?

If you came into Aion with expectations that it would be "innovative" and not use the mechanics established and proven successful in other games, then the problem is yours, not Aion's.

Aion is what it said it would be: an MMO with some unique features but with the basic framework of a standard MMO. If I owned an MMO company this is the exact route I would take if I *wanted to make money*. The same gamers who clamor for something completely new/innovative in an MMO are the same people who would not put their money down on such an MMO because it's too different from other successful MMOs.

 

+1 and a kiss >.>

 

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

Are you saying WoW was a inovation ? you got be kidding be, WoW took everything every other MMO before had done (and it wasen't much) and all they did was polish it, they diden't gave it anything new.

Everything you just mention about Aion, chain attacks done before, what do you think WoW did, make up everything themself ?.
Dont fool yourself, they took the mechanish from other mmo, and improved, just like every mmo does nowadays.

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

 

Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

:-\

So, let's release a bunch of iffy innovative games, and then we can get a good polished one in a few years built on their backs?

Y'know, with polish.

When did expecting crap become acceptable?

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

 

Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

:-\

So, let's release a bunch of iffy innovative games, and then we can get a good polished one in a few years built on their backs?

Y'know, with polish.

When did expecting crap become acceptable?

Since when did polished become crap?

I play MMO's because they're fun, interesting AND polished.  Just because it's not innovative, doesn't mean it's crap.  Well.. maybe to you, but not to everyone.

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by JonMichael

:-\

So, let's release a bunch of iffy innovative games, and then we can get a good polished one in a few years built on their backs?

Y'know, with polish.

When did expecting crap become acceptable?

That's what the OP and I want to know?  It's just that in Aion the crap is the design document, rather than the implementation.  There are millions of people who read and enjoy romance novels.  That's the way the Aion fans in this thread are presenting themselves.  There's nothing wrong with it, but don't tell me not to look for the next 'Moby Dick' because you've got a perfectly good copy of 'The Passions of Summer' for sale.

Originally posted by AKABoondock

I don't believe that anyone on these forums or even NCSoft themselves have called Aion "Innovative" (other than char customization, which it is), so why is so important for you to tell us it isnt?. I would like to hear what you suggest for MMO-gamers to play instead. Yes, Aion is the same kind of MMO we have seen over and over. But you know what? Some people are actually INTO those games! I myself cant wait for Sep 20.

Not just from this post, but your many others it's clear you're a fan of Aion and you like it, but the tables can easily be turned and it's easy to question just why you would feel the need to post to the contrary... But wait!

These are forums, where people express their opinions and share their views with others.

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

You might need an innovative game to make an MMO interesting to you, not to me.

I don't think AION is full of innovative, new ideas... but I find it extremely interesting and a lot of fun to play.

And BTW- you get your wings at 10, not 25. ;)

 I'd love to see some innovation, but I expected it more from the likes of Fallen Earth or maybe even Champions, this time around.  That's why I tried them first.  Not only did they both lack any significant innovation, they just felt poorly strung together and half finished.  In the end, as badly as I want to see innovation, Aion's the only one I might actually stick with past the 'open' beta.

I never expected it to be innovative, but I was hoping the combat system would be a little more fun.  Maybe at higher level, with more active skills and less auto-attack?  I'm also curious about the sort of customization it has, because at lv.10, it looks like 8 cookie-cutter classes to me, and I was hoping for a least a little bit of skill tree type choices or something.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Obviously some people here are either burned out on MMOs or don't like MMOs anyway. Which begs the question why do they even post here?

If you came into Aion with expectations that it would be "innovative" and not use the mechanics established and proven successful in other games, then the problem is yours, not Aion's.

Aion is what it said it would be: an MMO with some unique features but with the basic framework of a standard MMO. If I owned an MMO company this is the exact route I would take if I *wanted to make money*. The same gamers who clamor for something completely new/innovative in an MMO are the same people who would not put their money down on such an MMO because it's too different from other successful MMOs.

Not at all.  I'm very much looking forward to Fallen Earth going live.  I enjoy EVE from time to time.  And I definitely miss my SWG days.  Also sorry that POTBS had to die the death of stagnation.  Coming up, I'm keeping an eye on SWTOR (who isn't), Star Trek Online, and Infinity : The Quest for Earth.  But thanks for your attempt at a diagnosis, doctor. I am not diagnosing--I'm just making an observation based on what you wrote. Nothing that you said here changes my observation.  Your observation is not correct.  I didn't change your OPINION.  Your opinion is not relevant.  Moving on. You are looking for something that Aion never promised.  True, but I'm not blaming it for that.

I didn't come with any expectations at all.  You did. You came expecting some innovative and different.  I didn't.  You need to get your crystal ball checked, Madam Mamushka.  Hoping, perhaps.  Expecting, no.   I came due to boredom.  Exactly. You wanted to relieve that boredom. You expected Aion to do that for you, but when you saw that it had very few "innovative" features built on top of the same old proven MMO mechanics, you continued to be bored.  I believe I said that. This is what I found.  I wrote it down.

That isn't the route I'd take if I wanted to make money if only because a relatively small fraction of such ventures have been successful in any significant degree, most from a winner IP boost.  I played LOTRO, I kinda liked LOTRO, but same problem.  It's still going because it's LOTRO, not Generic Fantasy Kingdom Online. Thank goodness you don't run an MMO company.  More of a pity really.

And hey, I pretty much only put my money down on those different MMOs. Good for you. You are a minority, and companies that make MMO know that you are minority.  Obviously not if those games are being made.  Or, perhaps, a minorty large enough to still consider making a game for, so the argument's still pointless.  So, if you've got any more false assumptions to lay out, by all means. I made no false assumptions. Actually, you did, but it doesn't really matter now because Aion is not the game for you it seems.  No, I didn't, but you did an excellent job of trying to speak for me.  Let's try this: I'll say what I'm saying, and you say what YOU'RE saying.  If you are incapable of getting your own message across, try not to make it seem like it's coming from my mouth.

 

Colors are fun.

Originally posted by Vhaln

 I'd love to see some innovation, but I expected it more from the likes of Fallen Earth or maybe even Champions, this time around.  That's why I tried them first.  Not only did they both lack any significant innovation, they just felt poorly strung together and half finished.  In the end, as badly as I want to see innovation, Aion's the only one I might actually stick with past the 'open' beta.

I never expected it to be innovative, but I was hoping the combat system would be a little more fun.  Maybe at higher level, with more active skills and less auto-attack?  I'm also curious about the sort of customization it has, because at lv.10, it looks like 8 cookie-cutter classes to me, and I was hoping for a least a little bit of skill tree type choices or something.

Now, see, an FPS-based combat system WITH the flight.  It would probably be challenging as hell, but FUN.

And I kinda liked Fallen Earth.  Perfect, no, but I think it's got potential.

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

You mean wings at level 10, well actually I think you can get it at level 9 in CB.  I haven't got to play OBT to 10 yet since my friends are all hogging it in rotation.... bastards...

I don't know, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Some people simply does not play for the wow moment.  No mmorpg have ever wow'ed me since the first one I've played and that was before the 3D games exist some 15+ years ago.

I simply choose games that seem to be able to offer long term entertainment based on my preferences in a game.  I find those wow moments might sometimes happen from time to time, but those only last long as it take to say the word "wow".  Well, I suppose you can say that I am good at entertaining myself, which usually require some imgaination and attention to details.

Waiting to be entertained is extremely boring IMO.

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

 

You might need an innovative game to make an MMO interesting to you, not to me.

I don't think AION is full of innovative, new ideas... but I find it extremely interesting and a lot of fun to play.

And BTW- you get your wings at 10, not 25. ;)

Just a quick point, if this is you, I don't understand why you're here?

This was quite clearly not here to change your mind.

And you're not going to change mine....

So, really, why?

Originally posted by USFPutty

And I kinda liked Fallen Earth.  Perfect, no, but I think it's got potential.

Potential, definitely.  Maybe I'll give it a second look in 6-12 months or so.