Originally posted by linren

Armot itself doesn't make sense in mmorpg. 

People wear full suits of heavy plate type armor should not even be able to run or move at a decent speed.

Real life fights are based on evading most hits, and a few accuracy and strong hits determine the winner.

People don't take damage from being attacked, they get injured, and injured in the wrong place = death.

See, if it is a game, alot of things already don't make sense, female armor is only a very very small portion of it.  I mean if something is not going to make sense to begin with, why not have skimpy armor?  I think that is pretty logical.

Clearly you've never worn combat armor. You would be amazed at how lighte and thin it is. Let me put it in perspective for you. The body armor troops wear now is heavier than the armor they wore a thousand years ago.  If what you were saying were true no one ever would have worn armor it would have never been invented.  Skimpy armor isn't logical. It's an affectation. Just like the huge cumbersome shoulder pads you see in WoW. No one would wear such a thing in real combat.

Well I prefer to wear whatever I want to and not have functionality tied to my appearence but still I don't like the general overly flashy armor styles of most games.  Because I don't have an issue the practicality but I just think it looks gaudy, overly decorative and stupid,  asian games a really bad for this.

But I don't want too realistic either, where armor is just a big tin can and all the clothing is a collection of drab outfits

Originally posted by Tinagame

 

Your soo silly. You know you like looking.

I am a girl player and I like the sexy pieces. It helps distract the boys so I can beat em up or ninja them.

mwahahahahaha

 

lol nicely worded

How many people actually zoom up on a random female character when they are running around killing mobs, selling loot, or PvPing? MAYBE if you're sitting around crafting or just chatting and playing with the camera angles. Then again I do stop to look at pretty capes and armors in GW. XD So a guy might stop and look at female pixel bodies.

Skimpy armor is unrealistic but it does help distinguish between male and female characters, especially if they are wearing helms. Either way, it is a nice bonus for the guy gamers, I guess. Although I wouldn't mind it if there were a couple designs of each armor. Skimpy and... say, protective (even for the guys too)?

I need a shoulder pet to warn me about posting on forums. I brought the topic up to discuss. not for me to rant. "I was just saying..." *sigh*

Everyone's examples of the realism take... well that's an extreme. I'm always pumped about playing games that try to make the realism stronger... but not at the sake of taking the fun out of games. Or when the activity is too difficult to translate into the game.

For me, while it is "something to look at", it kind of breaks the immersion for me when the armor just seems out of place. and not in a good way.

Anyway. My intentions did produce the result I was hoping for anyway. At least one other person shared my views (even if only slightly).

noob2Epic... skimpy and protective design toggles... That's be great!

Actually thinking about it now, it should be a client choice so everyone is skimpy or everyone is protective... although only 3 people would be using the protective setting. bah. I'm done forumming... I'm going back to my game.

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

 

This is not going to protect you. Honestly i would probably gut this person, and then probably rape her.

Whaaaaaat? You would rape a woman on top of her being gutted?

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by linren

Armot itself doesn't make sense in mmorpg. 

People wear full suits of heavy plate type armor should not even be able to run or move at a decent speed.

Real life fights are based on evading most hits, and a few accuracy and strong hits determine the winner.

People don't take damage from being attacked, they get injured, and injured in the wrong place = death.

See, if it is a game, alot of things already don't make sense, female armor is only a very very small portion of it.  I mean if something is not going to make sense to begin with, why not have skimpy armor?  I think that is pretty logical.

 

Clearly you've never worn combat armor. You would be amazed at how lighte and thin it is. Let me put it in perspective for you. The body armor troops wear now is heavier than the armor they wore a thousand years ago.  If what you were saying were true no one ever would have worn armor it would have never been invented.  Skimpy armor isn't logical. It's an affectation. Just like the huge cumbersome shoulder pads you see in WoW. No one would wear such a thing in real combat.

I am not talking about modern armor >_>;. See that thing in blue?

Current armor are of course light and durable, they also are able to absorb very high impact and heat.  They are meant to keep you mobile while keeping the highest degree of protection and comfort.  It is a product of  technology, if a game is a setting in high tech background, then of course.  However, medieval type fantasy genre it just does not quite work, of course I suppose they can say they enchanted it with magic, but that is another issue all together.

Actually it is true, the reason why medieval armors were invented was because they can stand up to alot of abuse, arrows have very hard time piercing the combination of plate and also the chain they wear under it.  Swords and one handed weapons does next to nothing versus heavy plate.  Only thing that worked against plate armor back then was impact force that knocks the opponent down such as great swords, hammers, huge axes, giant spears, etc.  Oil and fire also work very well. 

Once knocked down, a fully armored medieval knight is rather a pathetic sight, they have hard time getting up and is at the mercy of Maine Gauche type of thin dagger weapon that can fit between the gaps of plate armor.  Maine Gauche is also a weapon used for delivering a merciful death to a wounded enemy soldier, usually used between the gaps between the helm and the suit to pierce the throat.

Shoulder pads issue in WoW is always funny, mainly because shoulder pad of that size is not even useful and only get in the way, so on this point I totally agree with you.

The idea that a fallen knight in plate armor is like a turtle flipped onto its back is faulty.  Assuming the armor fits well, an active person loses very little in the way of mobility.  Obviously you wouldn't want to walk a tight-rope while wearing it, but mounting/dismounting, and more importantly, combat movement is not impacted to any serious degree.  Our ancestors weren't stupid.  Plate wouldn't have been a dominant force on the battlefield for hundreds of years if it reduced combatants to shuffling about, golem-like, merely hoping that somebody with a blacksmith's hammer didn't manage to side-step behind them and smash their helmets in.   

Plate is hot to wear, and heat-exhaustion due to over-exertion can be a real problem though. 

I find it amusing that this is THE thing that some people find unrealistic in a Fantasy game. Everything else makes sense and is believable? lol

It is absolutely true that full plate protects the body better than the skimpy armor on contact by a weapon. But it is not as clear cut as everyone seem to think. Agility is just as good of a defence as being protected from head to toe in steel. Just wanted to point out that sometime less is more, it is always situational. If you think beeing in combat with 100+ pounds of protection on you wont affect your stamina, quickness ect maybe you should try it out. ;-)

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by linren

Armot itself doesn't make sense in mmorpg. 

People wear full suits of heavy plate type armor should not even be able to run or move at a decent speed.

Real life fights are based on evading most hits, and a few accuracy and strong hits determine the winner.

People don't take damage from being attacked, they get injured, and injured in the wrong place = death.

See, if it is a game, alot of things already don't make sense, female armor is only a very very small portion of it.  I mean if something is not going to make sense to begin with, why not have skimpy armor?  I think that is pretty logical.

 

Clearly you've never worn combat armor. You would be amazed at how lighte and thin it is. Let me put it in perspective for you. The body armor troops wear now is heavier than the armor they wore a thousand years ago.  If what you were saying were true no one ever would have worn armor it would have never been invented.  Skimpy armor isn't logical. It's an affectation. Just like the huge cumbersome shoulder pads you see in WoW. No one would wear such a thing in real combat.

 

I am not talking about modern armor >_>;. See that thing in blue?

Current armor are of course light and durable, they also are able to absorb very high impact and heat.  They are meant to keep you mobile while keeping the highest degree of protection and comfort.  It is a product of  technology, if a game is a setting in high tech background, then of course.  However, medieval type fantasy genre it just does not quite work, of course I suppose they can say they enchanted it with magic, but that is another issue all together.

Actually it is true, the reason why medieval armors were invented was because they can stand up to alot of abuse, arrows have very hard time piercing the combination of plate and also the chain they wear under it.  Swords and one handed weapons does next to nothing versus heavy plate.  Only thing that worked against plate armor back then was impact force that knocks the opponent down such as great swords, hammers, huge axes, giant spears, etc.  Oil and fire also work very well. 

Once knocked down, a fully armored medieval knight is rather a pathetic sight, they have hard time getting up and is at the mercy of Maine Gauche type of thin dagger weapon that can fit between the gaps of plate armor.  Maine Gauche is also a weapon used for delivering a merciful death to a wounded enemy soldier, usually used between the gaps between the helm and the suit to pierce the throat.

Shoulder pads issue in WoW is always funny, mainly because shoulder pad of that size is not even useful and only get in the way, so on this point I totally agree with you.

Main-Gauge was an off-hand dagger used in conjunction with a Rapier as a fencing weapon. They were not carried by priests for coup-de-grace. It often had a basket hilt and was a parrying weapon.

Your correct however that priests often carried daggers to "mercy-kill" mortally injured knights , the thrust was generally done up through the armpit though, the Gorget protected the neckline.

As to other posters, Armor progressed in the standard arms-race method getting heavier over time, but it always kept a good degree of mobility. Even a full suit of gothic plate (late middle ages - 15th cen) was pretty mobile for a trained user. Plate lost fashion pretty quickly when longbows / Crossbows (they were labeled as the "devils weapon" by the church) and later gunpower weapons hit the field with thier penetration invalidating its usage.

Modern kevlar etc is not as heavy as full plate or even heavy chainmail, we have advanced somewhat from that stage. Although it can be argued that the modern soldier does hump more gear into combat with thier weapons, ammo, kit bags etc. Modern soldiers are geared out to be as self-sufficient as possible .. knights were not.

Its simply wrong to say a knight who was knocked over was "like a turtle" .. far from it unless you killed him pretty quickly they would regain thier footing. It is accurate to say that concussion trauma became more an issue in full plate. (Hence hammers, heavy mace etc) However, the sword was still caught up in the arm's race against plate in variations such as the Estoc, designed to combat foes in plate armor. (Being long, thin with a point and virtually no "blade" it was designed to pierce plate or slip through the over-lapping plates)

<Edit> And for the OP,

It depends on the game for me. A high fantasy type game (Everquest etc) I really dont mind the skimpy armor as "magic" can explain away just about anything. A Low fantasy or Sci-Fi game I prefure a more realistic look as it fits the setting better. So for me its about the setting of the game, as long as it does not break the theme of the game Its fine (IMO) ...

Originally posted by trapdoor

From a pure combat point of view... Yes i know, sex sells. But if giving women fully clothed armor keeps the kiddies away, I'm all for it. But that's not the focus of why I posted.

Exceptions? When a game takes place in an age where there is little armor coverage such as Conan. I have no idea about the game, but at least Arnold sported only a rag about his twig and berries. It would be believable then that a women in armor would be dressed similarly.

But mainly, if as a male, I am dressed in full plate armor and you can't even see my face let alone any skin, then why would a female have Plate Boots, a plate thong and bikini, and Plate gloves? ... more importantly, offer the same protection rating as the full on plate guy?

Again, the sex sells thing?... it's not a good enough excuse. Not as long as the rational part of my brain exists. And since I gave WoW up a long time ago, I still have a rational brain cell somewhere.

L2dictionary... Fantasy vs. Reality.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fantasy

"5 : the power or process of creating especially unrealistic or improbable mental images in response to psychological need <an object of fantasy>; also : a mental image or a series of mental images (as a daydream) so created <sexual fantasies of adolescence>"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reality

"1 : the quality or state of being real"

In reality, I don't go up to people with Exclamation marks above their heads to ask them what they want me to do so I can get money and xp. Even if they did I doubt that they would want me to kill 5 cats so I can bring them their paws so they can make a wearable trinket for me that would give me +'s to my magic resistance.

In reality, though not personally tested, when people die they are dead. They do not respawn at their last bind point, or ressurect themselves in graveyards with rez sickness.

In reality, even if you had 20 people in full plate with swords and shields, a 100m tall living, breathing, dragon would make you piss and shit your pants, especially while it's biting you in half despite you being in head to toe metal armor.

In reality, people don't throw lightning bolts or fireballs.

In reality, you don't see women wearing skimpy clothing that's totally useless and just for the sheer purpose of showing off their ass or cleavage...

Oh wait, I guess you do.

What was your argument again?

---

Originally posted by trapdoor
From a pure combat point of view... Yes i know, sex sells. But if giving women fully clothed armor keeps the kiddies away, I'm all for it. But that's not the focus of why I posted.

---

I know. Its one of those 10 rules of video games, something about "a tank top has more armor than a full suit of plate". Its very frustrating to most female gamers, but I don't know how it will change unless game marketers realize that there is a large female (and mature male) player base. Obviously, studies have shown this quite clearly. But the marketing teams just have not caught up.

Keep posting the complaint! The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

In regards to MMORPGs being a fantasy genre, I see plenty of modern and sci-fi games on The Big List. Also, one person's "fantasy" (dictionary definition) is certainly not always another person's, and marketing should take this into account.

 It doesn't have to make sense. It's a game after all.

Male armor doesn't make any sense either, you should be fully clothed as a warrior. Even if you can't find a full set of plate, you should patch the rest with leather or chain. It's not just female armor, people just focus on that because the MMO population is still predominantly male.

Fighters are supposed to be very lean too, not very muscular, (see the Roman armies), most warrior in MMO are much too muscular, they weigh way too much to travel those distances.

Originally posted by Tisiphone

 

---

Originally posted by trapdoor
From a pure combat point of view... Yes i know, sex sells. But if giving women fully clothed armor keeps the kiddies away, I'm all for it. But that's not the focus of why I posted.

---

 

I know. Its one of those 10 rules of video games, something about "a tank top has more armor than a full suit of plate". Its very frustrating to most female gamers, but I don't know how it will change unless game marketers realize that there is a large female (and mature male) player base. Obviously, studies have shown this quite clearly. But the marketing teams just have not caught up.

Keep posting the complaint! The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

In regards to MMORPGs being a fantasy genre, I see plenty of modern and sci-fi games on The Big List. Also, one person's "fantasy" (dictionary definition) is certainly not always another person's, and marketing should take this into account.

Plenty of mature females I've gamed with actually enjoy the looks of their skimpy armor.  I'm no kid that sits around jerking it all day to a toon in a game, either... but I have to admit, that occasionally, the random sexy toon passing by is pleasant to see.  Not all games do it in a way that's immersion breaking, either, and it isn't always just so out of place you go "WTF IS THAT DOING HERE?!"  Speaking of immersion, what world do people live in where they never see an attractive woman?  I'd personally hate playing a game where there was hardly any distinction between male and female toons, and in most games not all female armor is so revealing.  There's plenty of degrees of skimpyness.  There's plenty of games that are extreme, and all females wear thong bikinis, but those are generally the easily avoided Asian grinders in my experience.

Originally posted by demarc01

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by linren

Armot itself doesn't make sense in mmorpg. 

People wear full suits of heavy plate type armor should not even be able to run or move at a decent speed.

Real life fights are based on evading most hits, and a few accuracy and strong hits determine the winner.

People don't take damage from being attacked, they get injured, and injured in the wrong place = death.

See, if it is a game, alot of things already don't make sense, female armor is only a very very small portion of it.  I mean if something is not going to make sense to begin with, why not have skimpy armor?  I think that is pretty logical.

 

Clearly you've never worn combat armor. You would be amazed at how lighte and thin it is. Let me put it in perspective for you. The body armor troops wear now is heavier than the armor they wore a thousand years ago.  If what you were saying were true no one ever would have worn armor it would have never been invented.  Skimpy armor isn't logical. It's an affectation. Just like the huge cumbersome shoulder pads you see in WoW. No one would wear such a thing in real combat.

 

I am not talking about modern armor >_>;. See that thing in blue?

Current armor are of course light and durable, they also are able to absorb very high impact and heat.  They are meant to keep you mobile while keeping the highest degree of protection and comfort.  It is a product of  technology, if a game is a setting in high tech background, then of course.  However, medieval type fantasy genre it just does not quite work, of course I suppose they can say they enchanted it with magic, but that is another issue all together.

Actually it is true, the reason why medieval armors were invented was because they can stand up to alot of abuse, arrows have very hard time piercing the combination of plate and also the chain they wear under it.  Swords and one handed weapons does next to nothing versus heavy plate.  Only thing that worked against plate armor back then was impact force that knocks the opponent down such as great swords, hammers, huge axes, giant spears, etc.  Oil and fire also work very well. 

Once knocked down, a fully armored medieval knight is rather a pathetic sight, they have hard time getting up and is at the mercy of Maine Gauche type of thin dagger weapon that can fit between the gaps of plate armor.  Maine Gauche is also a weapon used for delivering a merciful death to a wounded enemy soldier, usually used between the gaps between the helm and the suit to pierce the throat.

Shoulder pads issue in WoW is always funny, mainly because shoulder pad of that size is not even useful and only get in the way, so on this point I totally agree with you.

 

Main-Gauge was an off-hand dagger used in conjunction with a Rapier as a fencing weapon. They were not carried by priests for coup-de-grace. It traditionally had a basket hilt and was a parrying weapon.

Your correct however that priests often carried daggers to "mercy-kill" mortally injured knights , the thrust was generally done up through the armpit though, the Gorget protected the neckline.

As to other posters, Armor progressed in the standard arms-race method getting heavier over time, but it always kept a good degree of mobility. Even a full suit of gothic plate (late middle ages - 15th cen) was pretty mobile for a trained user. Plate lost fashion pretty quickly when longbows / Crossbows (they were labeled as the "devils weapon" by the church) and later gunpower weapons hit the field with thier penetration invalidating its usage.

Modern kevlar etc is not as heavy as full plate or even heavy chainmail, we have advanced somewhat from that stage. Although it can be argued that the modern soldier does hump more gear into combat with thier weapons, ammo, kit bags etc. Modern soldiers are geared out to be as self-sufficient as possible .. knights were not.

Its simply wrong to say a knight who was knocked over was "like a turtle" .. far from it unless you killed him pretty quickly they would regain thier footing. It is accurate to say that concussion trauma became more an issue in full plate. (Hence hammers, heavy mace etc) However, the sword was still caught up in the arm's race against plate in variations such as the Estoc, designed to combat foes in plate armor. (Being long, thin with a point and virtually no "blade" it was designed to pierce plate or slip through the over-lapping plates)

 

<Edit> And for the OP,

It depends on the game for me. A high fantasy type game (Everquest etc) I really dont mind the skimpy armor as "magic" can explain away just about anything. A Low fantasy or Sci-Fi game I prefure a more realistic look as it fits the setting better. So for me its about the setting of the game, as long as it does not break the theme of the game Its fine (IMO) ...

Ahh sorry I got confused about Maine Gauche and Misericorde.  They are both used tha way historically, yeah Misericorde is the ones that is the correct thin blade.  Thanks for correcting me.

Actually I didn't say it was like a turtle. (Did I say turtle? I thought I only said it was hard to get up) 

Plate armor when people get knocked down it can vary, if they get knocked down straight up, then yes concussion is also part of it, but that was why they wore chain or sometimes pads under it.  However, when a armored knight falls down, the main thing that prevent them from getting up fast is that plate armor are bulky and the joints are hard to move in.  They either have to roll to a position on all 4 and get up (which is usually better) or use their hand to support their weight then get up normally from sitting position.  However, no enemy is going to just let them get up, a simple kick or a sweep of weapon knocks them down again.  Basically a suit of plate armor can be considered both armor and coffin, if they lose what little mobility they have, then the armor feel more like something that hinder them than protecting them.

Just think of an astronaut suit, even those suits are hard to move in under gravity, much less a bulky suit of metal.  (Which does not even conform with your movements much)  Unlike Ironman or some morder sci-fi armor, the bulk is enough to make you as agile as a 60 year old man. (I don't mean those super healthy ones either)  However they consider the superior defense worth it since an army of armored knights are much harder to defeat.  Only down side would be they are very hard to make back in the day since most of those are made by hand.

Armored knights can only charge for a very short time, due to weight and impact of running, but that running speed is rather pathetic to begin with anyways compare to someone wearing light armor.  Plus the more strength you exert the faster you get tired in a suit of plate armor, but I think this was pretty obvious anyways.

I think we are derailing a bit so I am gonna stop reply to every little thing.  Main thing I want to say is that I did not say turtle.

Originally posted by vladakov

 it doesn´t make sense, its a game, game physics usually don't make sense

That's for certain.  Now if we need to go down the it has to make sense road, then all the other stuff must come with it.  Ammo, carrying limits, real time travel, etc.

---

Originally posted by Shiymmas
I have to admit, that occasionally, the random sexy toon passing by is pleasant to see.  Not all games do it in a way that's immersion breaking, either, and it isn't always just so out of place you go "WTF IS THAT DOING HERE?!"  Speaking of immersion, what world do people live in where they never see an attractive woman?  I'd personally hate playing a game where there was hardly any distinction between male and female toons, and in most games not all female armor is so revealing.  There's plenty of degrees of skimpyness.  There's plenty of games that are extreme, and all females wear thong bikinis, but those are generally the easily avoided Asian grinders in my experience.

---

I don't have a problem with people being more attractive in games. Or showing a bit more skin than necessary. It is the extreme cases that bother me - just like you're saying: thong bikinis. Or, getting some fantastic rare drop armor and having it appear as an incredible suit of plate armor on male characters and a metal bra on female characters.

I think there is a happy medium. Or, they could do more fan service for female players ;)

Originally posted by PapaB34R

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Honestly in the heat of a fight, I don't see sex appeal giving a women an advantage at all. I would love to see an mmo were they actually penalized such armor personally.

This is not going to protect you. Honestly i would probably gut this person, and then probably rape her.

 

This is going to keep you alive. I would probably turn tail if I saw someone running at me in this.

 

Im all for realistic armor, personally I think a woman decked out in Plate is pretty damn badass.

 

looks like you have some issues to deal with eh, besides who cares its a game.

I'm into Guro, don't judge me!! >:O