Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in.

I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming.

The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets.

Anyway, ToR >> WoW.

Discuss.

Originally posted by Rrevan

Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in.

I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming.

The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets.

Anyway, ToR >> WoW.

Discuss.

I agree it could blow people away. I just don't think in a worst case scenario, where its effectively a standalone rpg with multiplayer that its going to be able to maintain subs over any length of time without the basics needed to build community.

Problem with a story driven MMO is a lot of people won't necessarily feel driven by the story if they think that every other player is also boarding a ship that carries the info that changes the whole war.

MMO's with story is a whole lot different than an MMO thats story driven.

It all depends on how they deliver it. And saying its Bioware isn't any kind of guarantee cause they're going to have to deliver something totally new.

TOR will not save MMO's because MMO's aren't in need of saving.  Maybe you aren't a fan of the style MMO's are right now, but that doesn't mean that they need saving.  Millions of people play these games.  Plus, depending on the way the story is executed, it might actually send the MMO genre a few steps back in terms of grouping people together in a social and meaningful experience.

I am honestly a lot more put off by a game trying to convince me my actions are going to save the galaxy/world than a game that tries to get me to make blankets because thousands of people will do that same quest that saved the galaxy.  If I have no effect on the world, don't make it seem like I do because if I delete that quest from my log then the Horde or Alliance or Sith or whoever will not cease to exist in a few weeks.

Good point. We will have to wait and see how that focus on storytelling will work with a subscription model. Even if it fails it will provide good fun though. Just might not be able to retain subscribers for very long.

I think what will save mmo's will not be Bioware or TOR but DEES  NUTS 

New thinking and new ideas it what will save MMOs. TOR do have a lot of that but other games will also deliver new ideas like Guildwars 2 (ironic since it is a sequel), World of darkness online and a few other upcoming games.

These ideas will merge in later games and change the genre forever, even if none of the games will be the next Wow. They might of course, Bioware and Arenanet are both extremly good with experienced people.

I think Bioware is making the right decision to not copy other games but making their own thing. If they just had stolen everything from older games they would just made another WAR again.

It may be a good game as Bioware is known to deliver those, but from what we;'ve seen it isn't one I would pay a monthly fee for. I would, however, buy it if there was just a one time $60 charge. That said, I'd have to strongly disagree that it will save MMOs. It'll be a great game for those who want to follow a storyline and make choices from a limited list (3, 4 maybe 5) at given points in the story. But there are still alot more areas that makeup an MMO that Bioware hasn't talked about (which understandably generates concerns) that they will have to deliver on when they do talk about at a level equal to their efforts at story and, for instance, their attention to detail with voice overs, before any talk about saving MMOs is meritable.

That and if they are going to save the MMO genre, then they'd pretty much have to either a) brainwashed all other development house to make their games in TOR's image, or b) make every single MMO from now on.

or DESTROY them.

I know this is just my preference but for me there are two primary distinctions between standalone rpg's and mmorpgs.

The first is obviously the other players. In a standalone game, its me and bunch of npc's. And thanks to mmo's I can't enjoy standalone rpg's anymore because of that.

The other major distinction is who tells the story. In a standalone, even one where you get to make a lot of decisions that effect the outcome of blah blah blah, the game is rolling the storyline out to you. For me, a good MMO provides the environment and the tools for the players to create their own story. That doesn't mean there should be no story, but that it should be more of a back story. Providing the backbone of the lore and inspirations, not determining who you are and what you do.

So we'll see how well a story-driven MMO can do. Personally I think it'll do well, I just don't think it'll be the gamechanger people think it will be.

First of all.  SWToR will not be the MMO Messiah nomatter how good of a game it will be.  I'm very excited about the game but I hope that what it ends up doing is showing MMO companies to get off their ass and put in some innovation into their games.  

We all pretty much know this game will sell boxes, but its content that people are looking forward to.  End game, and grouping.  Reading up as much as I can on ToR it sounds as though they are planning on many different styles of play.  They hinted at looking into capture points,  scaling mission difficulties, crafting, grouping, open world and instanced gameplay.  A lot of things that seem fairly on par with mainstream MMOs ... I could only hope the implementation is different.. at this point its a wait and see game for interested parties.

As for the story line... again,  it seems the storyline in this game IS the progression tool.  I think that is the best part about the game.... many people may scoff at an MMO with a strong storyline, but it brings to the table so much more then a kill 5 rats questing system.  With the additional use of a companion that will also scale and level with you, that you have the option to control or not control?  A possible love interest, or a die hard friend... it really opens up the storyline aspect and brings in immersion you only get from single player RPGs.   Each choice you make sounds more like it will have more of an effect on your personal progression more then the actual universe....  being good or evil or any shade of gray could be the way to unlock new powers, weapons and armor.... which in itself might open up a number of different ways to progress and balance classes.

Again its still very early to tell, and if nothing else though, this game is a step in the right direction in my eyes. I wouldn't call it a savior just yet....

I call bullshit

save mmos?

riiight.  

If it has levels

If it has (kill monster X = 100xp X 100 = 1 level)

If it is has little exploration, no fully gear crafted economy, basically cookie cutter crap, it will be another... "play for 4-6 months, then quit"

from what I can tell it has almost no sandbox elements that made the original swg great, its just another level grind, themepark, linear garbage.

Will the game be fun?  Sure.

will it save mmos?  No.   

Originally posted by maskedweasel

First of all.  SWToR will not be the MMO Messiah nomatter how good of a game it will be.  I'm very excited about the game but I hope that what it ends up doing is showing MMO companies to get off their ass and put in some innovation into their games.  

 

We all pretty much know this game will sell boxes, but its content that people are looking forward to.  End game, and grouping.  Reading up as much as I can on ToR it sounds as though they are planning on many different styles of play.  They hinted at looking into capture points,  scaling mission difficulties, crafting, grouping, open world and instanced gameplay.  A lot of things that seem fairly on par with mainstream MMOs ... I could only hope the implementation is different.. at this point its a wait and see game for interested parties.

 

As for the story line... again,  it seems the storyline in this game IS the progression tool.  I think that is the best part about the game.... many people may scoff at an MMO with a strong storyline, but it brings to the table so much more then a kill 5 rats questing system.  With the additional use of a companion that will also scale and level with you, that you have the option to control or not control?  A possible love interest, or a die hard friend... it really opens up the storyline aspect and brings in immersion you only get from single player RPGs.   Each choice you make sounds more like it will have more of an effect on your personal progression more then the actual universe....  being good or evil or any shade of gray could be the way to unlock new powers, weapons and armor.... which in itself might open up a number of different ways to progress and balance classes.

 

Again its still very early to tell, and if nothing else though, this game is a step in the right direction in my eyes. I wouldn't call it a savior just yet....

Agreed!

Honestly TOR looks like nearly every other mmo out there at the moment. Its only difference is that it is fully voiced. Also I was wondering so far bioware seem to be showing a lot of solo content and 1 2 party co-op, when can we see the massive multiplayer part of this mmo?

Originally posted by supremeaaron

Honestly TOR looks like nearly every other mmo out there at the moment. Its only difference is that it is fully voiced. Also I was wondering so far bioware seem to be showing a lot of solo content and 1 2 party co-op, when can we see the massive multiplayer part of this mmo?

I have a good feeling we'll be seeing it sooner then later.  BioWare isn't stupid.. if theres one thing I've been able to ascertain from the information I've read its that they DO understand the different MMO styles of play.... from the very secluded single players to the overly social raid groups, they've said they will be creating content for those types and all in between.  What they haven't said is what that content will be at this time.  Just keep your eyes peeled.

I have a little question about that game. I know I will surely buy it already. But just like that, do we know how will the PVP be?

best guess?

hardly any death penality

no corpse looting

probably consensual

maybe arena based

in a word.

sucks.

Originally posted by AlexTheTall

I have a little question about that game. I know I will surely buy it already. But just like that, do we know how will the PVP be?

Don't listen to "poopystuff"  (as if he expects anyone to take him seriously anyways)  the PvP has not been gone through in detail yet as far as I've read, perhaps some others know more specifics.  What we do know is that they've hinted about the "wars" part of star wars many times, I'm guessing to point towards some sort of galactic war that may be going on.  They've also hinted as I've said about taking control points and things of that nature.

Its doubtful there will be looting, which is to be expected as with the way classes are it would be semi pointless for looting.  Death penalties have not been talked about either as far as I know, but I would think it would be minimal to get players back in the game as quickly as possible...  Then again alot of this is speculation.   Theres supposed to be some demos at PAX today.. (or so the twitter says) so maybe that will reveal some new footage.

Thank you, and i didn't took the troll seriously. Don't worry! 

From what Ive gathered, this game will be single player game with massively multiplayer global chat integrated to it.

Thats the problem with "Casual games"

"Its doubtful there will be looting"

hm.  you agreed with me

"Death penalties have not been talked about either as far as I know, but I would think it would be minimal"

hm, again, you agree with me.

And yet I'm not to be listened to.

This is mainstream game guys, don't expect anything innovative or different from the vast majority of mmo's out there.

Sure full voice acting and story driven is nice...  but this is an mmo, not kotr 3....

its gonna have too much in common with your average wow clone to move the industry forward in terms of true innovation or something vastly different.

I'm not totally sold that this game will be for the more mature crowd and I'm not even sure the younglings even know anything about Star Wars or KOTOR. Which leads me to believe there will a great disturbance in the force. I'm not 100% sold on the art direction or this new cover system. It is nothing game breaking here but just concernes I do not wish this game to be turned into ala barrens chat and a horrible community. The Star Wars Univers doesn't deserve that. I just paray to god I can find a good mature guild to play with.

NO, its gonna be a linear game like all others

u sw fans need to chill out, they fucked other francises they gonna do the same to this one(again).

we still need more 20 years to see some serious advancement on this genre.

Originally posted by PoopyStuff

"Its doubtful there will be looting"

hm.  you agreed with me

"Death penalties have not been talked about either as far as I know, but I would think it would be minimal"

hm, again, you agree with me.

 

 

And yet I'm not to be listened to.

This is mainstream game guys, don't expect anything innovative or different from the vast majority of mmo's out there.

 

Sure full voice acting and story driven is nice...  but this is an mmo, not kotr 3....

its gonna have too much in common with your average wow clone to move the industry forward in terms of true innovation or something vastly different.

 

 

 Don't know if you know this or not but harsh death penalties and full loot PvP are not innovative either.  You are looking for something that is obviously not this game... and you are trying to impose your opinion that any game that does not meet this criteria will not be a good game, and you're wrong to do so.  Obviously the way the smuggler seemed to handle is pretty different in terms of how MMOs play currently.... we have yet to see what else BioWare has coming through the pipeline.  Currently you have no more information than I do...  and I can already tell you this game will be different then whats out there currently.

Originally posted by kishe

From what Ive gathered, this game will be single player game with massively multiplayer global chat integrated to it.

 

Thats the problem with "Casual games"

What exactly have you gathered? It has pretty much every feature that qualifies it as a MMO.

Whats the problem with casual games? Is it the fact that you DONT have to dedicate your life to it? Being able to login on for 2 hours, log off and have some sense of accomplishment is what a game should be about. The word "casual" is such an over used term. And really, is being casual a bad thing? Enjoying a few hours of painless game play vs having to spend 15 in a hardcore MMO to get anything done. But whatever, at least the casuals are getting a kick ass game (appears to be so far) and it's backed by a great company.  Now find your way back to the Darkfall forums.

Originally posted by Kenaoshi

NO, its gonna be a linear game like all others

u sw fans need to chill out, they fucked other francises they gonna do the same to this one(again).

we still need more 20 years to see some serious advancement on this genre.

Agreed.

SWTOR doesn't do anything groundbreaking. Combat has being done before, Cover system in a mmo has being done before etc. The only thing bioware have done differently is making the game fully voiced. I bet if this game wasn't bioware made and not a SW mmo people wouldn't be rating it this high.