Originally posted by brostyn

You're article is entitled "Five Sillies MMO Lawsuits", yet you put Blizzard vs. MMO Glider. You, then, go on to praise Blizzard for doing what you wish other companies would do, and end the paragraph by saying "So, I’m going to say something I don’t normally say: Good job Blizzard. Bravo."

 

Dude?

The title said most "memorable" lawsuits, not the most silly.  Author also said that "often" there are humor to be found and not "always".

Plus if you think about it, that lawsuit can be considered humorous in that it is completely fruitless attempt and Blizzard know it.  Even if they win against WoW glider, they cannot stop goldfarmers in WoW much less the entire mmorpg industry.  I do appreciate the fact they went for it, but truthfully the outcome is pretty much the same whether Blizzard win, lose, or settled.

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by brostyn

You're article is entitled "Five Sillies MMO Lawsuits", yet you put Blizzard vs. MMO Glider. You, then, go on to praise Blizzard for doing what you wish other companies would do, and end the paragraph by saying "So, I’m going to say something I don’t normally say: Good job Blizzard. Bravo."

 

Dude?

 

The title said most "memorable" lawsuits, not the most silly.  Author also said that "often" there are humor to be found and not "always".

Plus if you think about it, that lawsuit can be considered humorous in that it is completely fruitless attempt and Blizzard know it.  Even if they win against WoW glider, they cannot stop goldfarmers in WoW much less the entire mmorpg industry.  I do appreciate the fact they went for it, but truthfully the outcome is pretty much the same whether Blizzard win, lose, or settled.

Read the thread before you jump down someone's throat, johnny-come-lately.

BTW, I did find the article humourous if not entirely factual. Not sure how you pulled that assumption out of your rear, since I made no comment one way or the other.

Originally posted by hogscraper

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

The UO " unpaid employee" lawsuit was certainly important. www.salon.com/tech/log/2000/09/21/ultima_volunteers/

The case was settled in favor of the employees aka unpaid volunteers. Good for them.

Unpaid volunteering for a "for profit company " is both ridiculous and absurd. Any company *cough cough* that doesn't pay such employees is unethical and should be ashamed.

 

Acutally I think that was probably the dumbest lawsuit yet in this genre.  99.9% of the volunteers enjoyed what they were doing and they were not unpaid as they got to play the game for free.  Removing them hurt the game.  So the idiots that brought the lawsuit just ruined it for the vast majority.  What the volunteers were doing was neither ridiculous nor absurd.  Typical response of someone on the outside completely misunderstanding the issues.

But I do agree that the lawsuit was more significant than some of those that are listed in the article in how it has effected the genre.

QFT

I've seen so many times where people who are volunteering then try to sue for money. IF a company says we have work but would like you to do it for free, you have no right to money. If they promise money then don't pay up, fine, but to demand money that you agreed to not take? Sad... Intern programs are like this. Would I have loved to have gotten paid for being an intern at a law firm? Absolutely! But was it fact at the time that enough people wanted the position badly enough that people were willing to do it for free? It still is. Because of cut backs I'm out of the program, (still can't figure out how you can be too broke to afford free workers), but will return the second they let me or when I find another program. While I did get compensation in free gas money to and from work I never got paid and don't care because the experience is what I need more than anything.

Actually the sad part was the other side of the coin.  After the UO lawsuit... suddenly one day every volunteer in UO was without warning... transported to jail... and then watched as a script stripped their robe and powers... before they went link dead.

Everyone who wasn't logged in was locked out of the "volunteer account".  So suddenly the IRC channels they used were flooded as no one  knew wtf was going on...

All because of one person... those were some great programs and great people.  The "interest program" was the one I was directly involved with... and it was one of the most unique/fun things I have ever been able to do.

Yet I was no longer able to do it.. have a team etc.. because one individual sued a company over not being paid as a volunteer.  Yet I know they did pay her for a while but she was never an employee and they never had to... they were nice.  Then when they didn't want to do it she sued them... and they killed the programs as they decided there was to much liability.

That is the other side of the coin... and why it was one of the most selfish things (from my point of view) I've ever seen happen around a game.  She could have easily decided to no longer volunteer.. when they didn't want to compensate her.  If she had been an employee and "let go" she would have had no such option as a lawsuit... so really... nobody forced her to volunteer let alone keep logging in after they no longer wanted to compensate her to be a volunteer... /end rant

The Final Fantasy XI lawsuit was about SquareEnix deleting your characters if you take a break from the game, and not telling you about it upfront when you first subscribe.

Happened to a friend of mine.  Haven't played that game in years, so it's probably happened to me too by now. 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6214710.html

Levelling in that game was hardcore too, it's not like playing WoW and "oh just roll another char and level to 80 in 2 weeks" kind of deal.  And each character in FFXI can have levels in all classes, so deleting 1 character there is like deleting 18 characters in other MMOs, literally.

No mention of Marvel Comics' lawsuit of City Of Heroes, because CoH players were using the awesome character editor to make tributes to their favoriteheroes?  I thought this was the height of stupid at the time.  Well, okay, stupid goes pretty high.

But it was a pretty transparent ploy to drain money from CoH/Cryptic, coincidentally as Marvel was preparing their own MMORPG.

Info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Suit_by_Marvel

Originally posted by quix0te

No mention of Marvel Comics' lawsuit of City Of Heroes, because CoH players were using the awesome character editor to make tributes to their favoriteheroes?  I thought this was the height of stupid at the time.  Well, okay, stupid goes pretty high.

But it was a pretty transparent ploy to drain money from CoH/Cryptic, coincidentally as Marvel was preparing their own MMORPG.

Info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Suit_by_Marvel

Darn, someone beat me to it, I was gonna mention that one.  I also wonder what Marvel might do to Cryptic once Champions is released, I dread to think.  Even though Cryptic was s'posed to be the ones working on Marvel's upcoming, now renamed to Champions, MMO, I'm pretty sure Marvel will want a slice of the pie once it shows any signs of success.

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by brostyn

You're article is entitled "Five Sillies MMO Lawsuits", yet you put Blizzard vs. MMO Glider. You, then, go on to praise Blizzard for doing what you wish other companies would do, and end the paragraph by saying "So, I’m going to say something I don’t normally say: Good job Blizzard. Bravo."

 

Dude?

 

The title said most "memorable" lawsuits, not the most silly.  Author also said that "often" there are humor to be found and not "always".

Plus if you think about it, that lawsuit can be considered humorous in that it is completely fruitless attempt and Blizzard know it.  Even if they win against WoW glider, they cannot stop goldfarmers in WoW much less the entire mmorpg industry.  I do appreciate the fact they went for it, but truthfully the outcome is pretty much the same whether Blizzard win, lose, or settled.

Read the thread before you jump down someone's throat, johnny-come-lately.

 

BTW, I did find the article humourous if not entirely factual. Not sure how you pulled that assumption out of your rear, since I made no comment one way or the other.

Re-read the whole thing just like the first time, but I don't see where I am wrong. 

The title reads "Five Memorable MMO Lawsuits", and the foreword was that lawsuits are SOMETIMES silly and the author mentioned it in the article too.  Unless you want to tell me that the author changed his title and foreword before I got here, then it is another issue.  Why can't someone praise Blizzard if the article was based on "Memorable".  Either read the title or tell me something that actually prove any sort of point.  Don't bother using factual errors as an argument, I was not talking about the validity of the article.

Another issue is why are you offended? If I was jumping down your throat then that was really too kind of a reply.  Plus what does the factual information have to do with what I pointed out?  I just pointed out it does NOT read "Five sillies MMO Lawsuits" in the title.

If you are telling me the author edited it after the fact, then let me know, but other wise I did nothing wrong and you simply got angery for some reason.

Don't bother picking at my comments if you are thinking about doing it, opinions can only be argued but serves no purpose.

Hm, I was reading the article and read the linked law suit papers for the Worlds.com thingie too - and wanted to comment that obviously the author did not read it himself. The linked material is just a continuation of a patent from 1996 and EQ was released in 1999 - with UO or Meridian not being a 3D mmorpg but a 2D mmorpg such not covered. So if SOE did not previously to 1996 publish anything about them doing a 3D mmorpg the question of the patent being correct or not is the biggest issue and might truly be a stumbling block for the industry ... 

Edit: Just saw that Dan rebuked the whole article already here http://www.gameslaw.net/2009/09/01/five-silliest-mmo-lawsuits/ so it's not just this which is factually wrong. Sorry Jon, badly researched. :-/

Originally posted by Valkyrie

Hm, I was reading the article and read the linked law suit papers for the Worlds.com thingie too - and wanted to comment that obviously the author did not read it himself. The linked material is just a continuation of a patent from 1996 and EQ was released in 1999 - with UO or Meridian not being a 3D mmorpg but a 2D mmorpg such not covered. So if SOE did not previously to 1996 publish anything about them doing a 3D mmorpg the question of the patent being correct or not is the biggest issue and might truly be a stumbling block for the industry ... 

 

Edit: Just saw that Dan rebuked the whole article already here http://www.gameslaw.net/2009/09/01/five-silliest-mmo-lawsuits/ so it's not just this which is factually wrong. Sorry Jon, badly researched. :-/

Sorry extremely vague patents like this just do not stand up in court.   There is enough prior history to invalidate it anyways.  Oh and BTW UO was most certainly 3D.

 Jon,

I agree with Richard Garriott on this one. Stock options and market conditions are a difficult thing to time, but one of the provisions in his contract was that he had to sell his company stock within a certain amount of time. The stock market, internationally as well as domestic was in a terrible state.

They could of given him  more time and maybe a better method of termination. I think he has a case for the loss on the shares. Other than that he is kinda flaky and maybe should of been working on TR instead of traipsing around in space, but I wasn't there in the boardroom. 

Ink

Most of these are funny, but im proud of blizzard for sueing a farming bot. I've played WoW and mining nodes right in front of me have disappeared before i get to it because a bot scanned the area and collected all the materials. Only to black-market the items for real-world money.

Also i think a ridiculous lawsuit you should add to this list is the lawsuit Guitar Hero put against Blizzard for Blizzard's "April Fool's Joke." They had joked about making a "bard" class that used rock, metal, and punk skills to defeat enemies with the power of music, and to use these abilities they were to pick up the keyboard like a guitar and line up the colored notes and strum, just like Guitar Hero. Not only was this an 11 million dollar lawsuit (from what i've heard and read), which is ridiculous, but there are alot of music games that use that system now. Rock Band for example.

Anyways i agree with all of the lawsuits on this list being ridiculous in their own way, and i agree that this new lawsuit of Turbine V. Atari is also ridiculous, and probably won't make it through.

"#1 Worlds.com vs. NCsoft

The completely unfathomable thing though is that the patent, which was filed in 2000, came well after MMOs like Ultima Online were already on the market and running a very similar system."

Even though i agree that this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard to sue over; I'd have to say that if anyone should hold that patent it should be Sony/Verant Interactive acording to wiki. 

"EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on 16 March 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful."

Thats quite a bit of time before 2000 and Everquest could easily be called the first true 3-D MMO to have been released.. 

Now, you may not like wiki for different reasons, but that launch date it states does sound right from my memories.. I started playing Everquest very shortly after it went live, and i seemed to remember that being in 1999.

Originally posted by Kevor

"#1 Worlds.com vs. NCsoft

The completely unfathomable thing though is that the patent, which was filed in 2000, came well after MMOs like Ultima Online were already on the market and running a very similar system."

 

Even though i agree that this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard to sue over; I'd have to say that if anyone should hold that patent it should be Sony/Verant Interactive acording to wiki. 

"EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on 16 March 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful."

Thats quite a bit of time before 2000 and Everquest could easily be called the first true 3-D MMO to have been released.. 

Now, you may not like wiki for different reasons, but that launch date it states does sound right from my memories.. I started playing Everquest very shortly after it went live, and i seemed to remember that being in 1999.

Meridian 59 was the first 3D MMO which first launched December 15, 1995.

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Originally posted by Stradden

If your idea of a good time is to tear the thing apart, then awesome, have at it. These columns are meant to be fun. Other sections of the site are reserved for harder news. This column is, quite obviously and plainly stated, just for kicks.

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Heh, that's one way to deal with critics.
"Oh, it was not ment to be serious and those parts I got totaly wrong... I bet they laughed while reading them so... it's all ok. OK? ... OK?

Done. All sorted. Nothing to see here. Move on people.
These are not facts you are looking for"

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by Kevor

"#1 Worlds.com vs. NCsoft

The completely unfathomable thing though is that the patent, which was filed in 2000, came well after MMOs like Ultima Online were already on the market and running a very similar system."

 

Even though i agree that this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard to sue over; I'd have to say that if anyone should hold that patent it should be Sony/Verant Interactive acording to wiki. 

"EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on 16 March 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful."

Thats quite a bit of time before 2000 and Everquest could easily be called the first true 3-D MMO to have been released.. 

Now, you may not like wiki for different reasons, but that launch date it states does sound right from my memories.. I started playing Everquest very shortly after it went live, and i seemed to remember that being in 1999.

 

Meridian 59 was the first 3D MMO which first launched December 15, 1995.

Ah, fair enough, I did play that a little, but it did not seem 3-D to me like Everquest was.

But, that still proves the point even more that Worlds.com should not have a case since there were MMOs released before they issued a patent that were 3-D type MMOs..

Well, at least Everquest was one of the first 3-D MMOs.. It was also one of the firsts MMO that required a 3-D graphics card to even run the game.. I remember that very clearly because i had to buy one to play it.  

Oh, and actually, Meridian launched on September 27, 1996, at least according to wiki. 

"More than 25,000 players joined the game's public beta that lasted up until its commercial launch on September 27, 1996, beating its next major rival, Ultima Online, by approximately a year"

But, that was still way before EQ launched..

Originally posted by Kevor

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by Kevor

"#1 Worlds.com vs. NCsoft

The completely unfathomable thing though is that the patent, which was filed in 2000, came well after MMOs like Ultima Online were already on the market and running a very similar system."

 

Even though i agree that this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard to sue over; I'd have to say that if anyone should hold that patent it should be Sony/Verant Interactive acording to wiki. 

"EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on 16 March 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful."

Thats quite a bit of time before 2000 and Everquest could easily be called the first true 3-D MMO to have been released.. 

Now, you may not like wiki for different reasons, but that launch date it states does sound right from my memories.. I started playing Everquest very shortly after it went live, and i seemed to remember that being in 1999.

 

Meridian 59 was the first 3D MMO which first launched December 15, 1995.

 

Ah, fair enough, I did play that a little, but it did not seem 3-D to me like Everquest was.

But, that still proves the point even more that Worlds.com should not have a case since there were MMOs released before they issued a patent that were 3-D type MMOs..

Well, at least Everquest was one of the first 3-D MMOs.. It was also one of the firsts MMO that required a 3-D graphics card to even run the game.. I remember that very clearly because i had to buy one to play it.  

Oh, and actually, Meridian launched on September 27, 1996, at least according to wiki. 

"More than 25,000 players joined the game's public beta that lasted up until its commercial launch on September 27, 1996, beating its next major rival, Ultima Online, by approximately a year"

But, that was still way before EQ launched..

Well, to quote more from wiki :P

"Meridian 59 is an online computer role-playing game first published by the now defunct 3DO Company and now run by Near Death Studios. First launched online in an early form on December 15, 1995 and released commercially in September 1996 with a flat-rate monthly subscription, Meridian 59 is often credited as the first 3D graphical "massively multiplayer online game" or MMO.

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by Kevor

Originally posted by Korgana

Originally posted by Kevor

"#1 Worlds.com vs. NCsoft

The completely unfathomable thing though is that the patent, which was filed in 2000, came well after MMOs like Ultima Online were already on the market and running a very similar system."

 

Even though i agree that this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard to sue over; I'd have to say that if anyone should hold that patent it should be Sony/Verant Interactive acording to wiki. 

"EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on 16 March 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful."

Thats quite a bit of time before 2000 and Everquest could easily be called the first true 3-D MMO to have been released.. 

Now, you may not like wiki for different reasons, but that launch date it states does sound right from my memories.. I started playing Everquest very shortly after it went live, and i seemed to remember that being in 1999.

 

Meridian 59 was the first 3D MMO which first launched December 15, 1995.

 

Ah, fair enough, I did play that a little, but it did not seem 3-D to me like Everquest was.

But, that still proves the point even more that Worlds.com should not have a case since there were MMOs released before they issued a patent that were 3-D type MMOs..

Well, at least Everquest was one of the first 3-D MMOs.. It was also one of the firsts MMO that required a 3-D graphics card to even run the game.. I remember that very clearly because i had to buy one to play it.  

Oh, and actually, Meridian launched on September 27, 1996, at least according to wiki. 

"More than 25,000 players joined the game's public beta that lasted up until its commercial launch on September 27, 1996, beating its next major rival, Ultima Online, by approximately a year"

But, that was still way before EQ launched..

 

Well, to quote more from wiki :P

"Meridian 59 is an online computer role-playing game first published by the now defunct 3DO Company and now run by Near Death Studios. First launched online in an early form on December 15, 1995 and released commercially in September 1996 with a flat-rate monthly subscription, Meridian 59 is often credited as the first 3D graphical "massively multiplayer online game" or MMO.

 

But then again that was not a commercial launch either.. The key here could be commercially launched i would think..

That early form could of been a kind of alpha, or beta test as well.. Who knows, but the fact of the matter is, whatever the case, this lawsuit should be dead in the water period..

Please note that NCSuck holds two out of five of these lawsuits-smell a trend here?  I hope so.  The one that RG filed against them is legit-seeing as how they 'fired him' when he was up in space, then continued to right fraudulent letters in his name to the paying customers; in the end he takes the blame for it.  The second lawsuit is full of crap-that would be like me filing a patent on breathing air.

This article is great, and I never knew about these lawsuits; especially Blizzard vs. MMO Glider.

There are so many illegal programs out (private and public)  that affect MMO gameplay. If all the MMO companies were to file a lawsuit against their creators, can you imagine how many people will be left in jail? But that would be at the expense of the companies' bank accounts. Still, this will send a message of warning to all those illegal program writers.

Heh

Budweiser once sued a small mom and pop flower shop for using "This Buds for you" on their store sign. Anything goes these days.. sadly.

Ah ok, I didn't know that Meridian was already 3D (and UO was not, I've a lot of experience with the original UO client ... it is all about gif like picture animations :) ). Of course than the Worlds.com patent is very much in question (and AoP has already rewarded 50.000 Dollar to someone bringing up details to challenge the patent as I saw yesterday: http://www.articleonepartners.com/winnerDetails.php?id=32 .

I'm far from being an expert concerning patents but as far as I know (correct me, if I'm wrong) if someone publishs the same idea or application of this idea publically somewhere than you can't patent that anymore (except maybe you can prove that this person stole the idea from you first hand?). And the application for the Worlds.com patent was in 1995 correct? So Meridian had already published beta information by than?

According to that page the beta started in summer 1995 http://www.giantbomb.com/meridian-59/61-19138/ .

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Originally posted by Dana

It can’t possibly be that ridiculous, could it? COULD IT?

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Have you ever had to pay your bill for FFXI? There are so many late fees and hidden fees it is crazy. Normally you know that the game will cost $14.99 or whatever and you won't ever have to worry about fees, but it really isn't that way with FFXI.

I'm glad they're getting sued over it, I hope it makes them make their fees more transparent. Maybe drop a few of the more ridiculous fees like the $20 account reactivation fee.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

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Originally posted by SWATJester
This article is absolutely rife with factual errors. The list of them has been outlined here: http://www.gameslaw.net/2009/09/01/five-silliest-mmo-lawsuits/
Seriously, there's almost nothing correct about this article.
 Calling Worlds.com a trademark case (it's not), not understanding what a trademark does, not noticing that the Square Enix case is a class action and that $5 million would go to ALL final fantasy XI players, etc. Shoddy work overall, absolutely shoddy.
 

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Are you really surprised? Most of the articles presented on this site are poorly researched, if at all. In addition to the Glider suit being called silly in the title, and then expressly called a good idea in the body, the article is full of contradictions and errors. That is just how they do things here.

Exactly. MMORPG.com is probably one of the most shallow and low-brow gaming sites I've ever read. They're the "amusement park gaming site." Pretty pictures, interviews and the like, but an average IQ of around 85 or so.

Read the first one and stopped - I'm not really sure what point, if any, you're trying to make there.

If Mythic are sharp enough operators to see the sense in trademarking a term like 'RvR' then why shouldn't they - it's just good business. The other lot should have been aware of that - the fact that they weren't demonstrates very poor business acumen on their part.

Kudos for taking a stand for journalistic integrity.