I think there is a connection to stable releases and the quality of the overall game. Two games that stand out are FFXI and GW. Both had extremely smooth launches.. and both happen to be my two favorite MMOs. Sure FFXI was out for a year and GW was smaller in scale, but it doesn't change the fact that they had smooth launches.

I think is show that a company is serious and cares more about quality than getting a game out there as fast as they can just to make money.

Most companies dont have the money to run thousands of beta tests to fix all bugs, dont blame them for that.

Originally posted by neoterrar

I think you aren't interpreting the data correctly. It's an import. It was already a full fledged game and they just westernized it.

So really, it's not some great feat.

Sorry but I as there when it was launched on ob in korea and it was just as polished as it is in NA.   one day or one year, nothing has changed that !!

the 1.0v we got in NA/EU was the exact same client korea got on opening day.  Nothing was changed except text.  So your opinion is flawed.

I think that us players should also define what we mean by "polish". Does it refer to refreshing ideas done well or upgraded graphics and animations that caress the eye. It seems that for most polish would be a re-make of Pong with high pixel count whereas others count a mind-numbing yet flawlessly done gameplay as a sign of polish. Is the constant spammer of polish nothing more than a marketing gimmick promoting mediocracy?

But, back to Aion. I think that the open beta will be watershed for many. It will illustrate both the good and the bad of the game as the server load will be on par with that of the actual game and those playing it will be from a much wider demography than before. If it feels like asshats ruling the game and it runs sluggishly, no amount of polish on character animation will save that, whereas the opposite might lure many of those testing actually into the game. New standard it won't be in either case as there has always been games that are well-executed on the market.

Originally posted by Ngeldu5t

I see only one thing that can really hurt it bad....GameGuard

Half of what is said about Gameguard are usually based on hearsays.  Gameguard do have its share of problems, but all these problems can be traced back by the fact that Gameguard is a commerical software.  Some people only took what are said about GG on the forums to be correct, but half of them were wrong from what I researched.

Gameguard might not be the most compatible software, but it does do what it is meant to do (keep programs that it consider as cheats out).  Even though I think their method of preventing cheats are too over zealous and make people uncomfortable with using it.  Gameguard basically tried to fight fire with fire, but that fire can also burn the players somtimes, and not all are able to solve the problems themselves.

In conclusion, GG is effective in what it does, but the way it does it is rather too forceful and feels invasive to most.  There are those that disable or remove it through great effort in order to cheat, AKA goldfarmers or pure cheaters.  For those that pride themselves in their "clean" system, I have nothing to say to their misconception.

It's very frustrating to see games like AOC and WAR crumble to pieces because of their unpolished natures. If only more games took it upon themselves to push for the polish of games like WoW, guild wars, FFXI etc. I'm glad Aion is looking to be in the polished cattegory, I'm not sure if it's pressure from the producer that they are releasing these unfinished half arsed games but I hope for the companies that are releasing them and the poor fans that they stop. heres to another fully fledged game hitting the shelves.

Originally posted by 1niceone1

It's very frustrating to see games like AOC and WAR crumble to pieces because of their unpolished natures. If only more games took it upon themselves to push for the polish of games like WoW, guild wars, FFXI etc. I'm glad Aion is looking to be in the polished cattegory, I'm not sure if it's pressure from the producer that they are releasing these unfinished half arsed games but I hope for the companies that are releasing them and the poor fans that they stop. heres to another fully fledged game hitting the shelves.

The issue is in fact more complex, but most suffer from the lack of funds half way through production.  Polish is only doable by company with solid backgrounds or established companies with solid history.

Blizzard:  Warcraft series, Starcraft series, Diabolos series, and then WoW.  Solid and big company with a large following.

NCsoft:  One of the biggest game company in Asia.  Lineage 1 & 2, GW, COH/COV.  Solid online game company.

Square Enix (SE) AKA Square Soft:  Many many console games including FF series, also huge following.  Solid Japanese game company.

All these 3 comapnies have one thing in common, they are all well established and sort of "brand name" company that produce quality game and have the resources to make those with high degree of polish and are able to push games global.

Basically it seems polish comes easier when the devs have more resources to work with.

 Why do people say AOC had a poor launch?  It had a good launch... I presume you are talking about the fact the game was unfinished and lacked promised content? 

I think NCsoft know what they have done regarding releasing a 'polished' product but I also think Turbine,blizzard and a few others are aware of this too.

Lmao WoW has a horriblle launch , some of you really do come in onto threads and talk ill informed crap.

Originally posted by zazz

Lmao WoW has a horriblle launch , some of you really do come in onto threads and talk ill informed crap.

I hope you are not talking about me, cuz I did not say anything about WoW being polished at launch.  i only listed WoW as one of the games Blizzard have made quite a bit of money off of which established their reputation as a solid company that are able to produce games with good degree of polish.

If you were not talking about my replies, then ignore this, but I feel like I need to clear it up since some might interpret my analysis the wrong way.

 wow is a better game

eq2 is a better game with the voice over ,the silly joy in it  have you ever bocome a pixie intead a big winged wtv the name is 

its hialrious

gw with its insanelly good pvp player and torturing strategy out of a sci-fi book

i could go on the fact is aion as yet to prove it can do what no game has done before them thats a huge order 

translate the soul of the game in another language silly hello no

what happens is they americanise a game when its not intended to be an american story or game 

i listen to carton and let me tell you ,every good joke,every good part get booted because its lost in translation 

all the people of asia cant be wrong when they love something and we dont 

9time out of 10 its because the soul of the game got lost in translation

wich is a shame in my view,i do hope the maker of aion at the other end of the world speak both language because if he doesnt 

lol aion will just be an empty shell

check wow they want to go to china did you see all the silly stuff they had to do to the game to make it in china 

¸might has well do a new game lol the game is full of sand bag full of box etc etc etc

not a lot of game can get out or in that part of the world and say men we did it we did 100% the game we wanted 

the fact is ,i dont think there was any game that made it .all game lost their soul along the way wich is a shame

Originally posted by Kilmar

Most companies dont have the money to run thousands of beta tests to fix all bugs, dont blame them for that.

Yes. Blame them. I do, and we should.

Originally posted by neoterrar

I think you aren't interpreting the data correctly. It's an import. It was already a full fledged game and they just westernized it.

So really, it's not some great feat.

You are wrong :) I played Aion in Open Beta (Korea) and there was not a single server/client crash during that phase! So Aion at launch had pretty much the same quality as it has now... !

Quite frankly I haven't played it yet, nor have I looked into its original launch.

From my experience in MMOs all this hype usually doesn't translate into a good game.

Going back to the OP. How much of this game is based on commercial engines? Have other recently released MMOs used engines and been successful?

I know Aion uses some Crytek engine and many asian games use some version of unreal. I heard Champions uses some engine also?

Either way, games that use their own engine will of course have more things to deal with. So maybe the future of MMOs should be based on some universal engine in which you just insert game play elements and a touch of story for good measure.

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by Ngeldu5t

I see only one thing that can really hurt it bad....GameGuard

 

Half of what is said about Gameguard are usually based on hearsays.  Gameguard do have its share of problems, but all these problems can be traced back by the fact that Gameguard is a commerical software.  Some people only took what are said about GG on the forums to be correct, but half of them were wrong from what I researched.

Gameguard might not be the most compatible software, but it does do what it is meant to do (keep programs that it consider as cheats out).  Even though I think their method of preventing cheats are too over zealous and make people uncomfortable with using it.  Gameguard basically tried to fight fire with fire, but that fire can also burn the players somtimes, and not all are able to solve the problems themselves.

In conclusion, GG is effective in what it does, but the way it does it is rather too forceful and feels invasive to most.  There are those that disable or remove it through great effort in order to cheat, AKA goldfarmers or pure cheaters.  For those that pride themselves in their "clean" system, I have nothing to say to their misconception.

I don't understand why it needs to be there though.  The games that are produced in the west don't use that crap, why do asian games feel the need?  I shouldn't have to put a rootkit (which is what gameguard is) and then be told to uninstall my AV and firewall to make it work.  What kind of BS is that? 

Originally posted by tanoril

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by Ngeldu5t

I see only one thing that can really hurt it bad....GameGuard

 

Half of what is said about Gameguard are usually based on hearsays.  Gameguard do have its share of problems, but all these problems can be traced back by the fact that Gameguard is a commerical software.  Some people only took what are said about GG on the forums to be correct, but half of them were wrong from what I researched.

Gameguard might not be the most compatible software, but it does do what it is meant to do (keep programs that it consider as cheats out).  Even though I think their method of preventing cheats are too over zealous and make people uncomfortable with using it.  Gameguard basically tried to fight fire with fire, but that fire can also burn the players somtimes, and not all are able to solve the problems themselves.

In conclusion, GG is effective in what it does, but the way it does it is rather too forceful and feels invasive to most.  There are those that disable or remove it through great effort in order to cheat, AKA goldfarmers or pure cheaters.  For those that pride themselves in their "clean" system, I have nothing to say to their misconception.

 

I don't understand why it needs to be there though.  The games that are produced in the west don't use that crap, why do asian games feel the need?  I shouldn't have to put a rootkit (which is what gameguard is) and then be told to uninstall my AV and firewall to make it work.  What kind of BS is that? 

That is what I was talking about.  Some of those informations are not current.  Anti-virus issue were a problem because no AV software would include GG since GG was a commerical software.  However, now there are ways for AV and firewall to be excluded from GG's list of programs to try to overwrite.  This have been patched and solved and plenty of reports are positive as it remove the conflict between GG and AV/firewall.  If someone use old version of GG that is just their problems.

I also posted this about GG before on another thread.  Asian games use it due to the dominance of cybercafe in Asia, and the most common cheat form comes in third party tools.  However, with GG active, they cannot use it with the game, and in cybercafe one does not have administrator privilege to do further hacking of the game. Usually GG are bundled with the game that choose to use it, and thus even if there are less cyber cafe in the US, it still works the way it should when stopping hacks and cheats.  The method it use is completely debatable since it have some questionable ways of stopping cheats.

Another big misconception is calling GG the same as a rootkit.  A rootkit is intented to take over your computer, but GG is only using methods SIMILAR to rootkit in order to hide from the process tree so people cannot easily disable it.  However, GG does install stuff without permission and can embed useless files in a system after even uninstall.  Some will claim those file are responsible for their system instability, but without a full diagnostic report I cannot say if GG caused it or if it is unrelated.  GG is not the most friendly software, but it is only half as bad as the rumors make it out to be.

If no one hacks or cheats, then GG would not have become necessary in the first place.  Or you can remove cybercafe from the world if you are capable of doing it.

Basically I just want to separate what people "believe" to be GG's fault and what actually is caused by GG.  Yes, GG cause problems sometimes, but not all of the problem reported.  GG is simply easy to pick on since there are plenty of negative opinions about it, but only half of those were valid and proven.

If Gameguard is only half as bad as claimed, then I don't want it on my system.

If it erases files on its own, I don't want it on my system.

If I can't play Aion without game guard, then I won't play Aion.

For a MMO that came out in late November, it's not a bad playing MMO. They have had 5 patches released in less than a year with bug fixes, class balances and content added which is a lot more than some of the other MMO's i have seen within the last 2-3 years.

GameGuard does have some problems with some AV and firewall software, but most AV programs can circuimvent that problem to work while up, however firewalls do need to come down.

As to the OP's question of whether it will make other companies stop pushing out buggy MMO's, probably not.

Originally posted by neoterrar

Quite frankly I haven't played it yet, nor have I looked into its original launch.

From my experience in MMOs all this hype usually doesn't translate into a good game.

...

The difference is that this time Aion hype comes from a polished released game & not from a suppossedly good game in developpement.

Quite frankly, your experience in MMOs doesn't seem to be translating so well into actual kwonledge of what you're talking about good sir.

Originally posted by Morgaren

AoC and War have been out longer than Aion in the east, and they are no where near as polished as Aion. I hope it does succeed and kills War And AoC, that will send the message the OP is talking about.

 

But how do you kill that which has no life?? @_@

Aion looks really good and appears polished, but i have yet to play until the 22nd. Once i get it ill make the decision. Yes companies need to make sure thier games are good to go and delay the release if it is not or we will get F2P looking games like Darkfall who charge a subscriprion.

I played WoW at release. I remember extremely long queues, daily server crashes/restarts and weekly patches/maintenance. The game itself was fun despite not being completely finished and completely lacking end-game content.

I didn't play Aion when it released in Korea. I don't really care about what happened in Korea. I'm just glad to see a polished game with a decent amount of end-game content releasing in the US. There really isn't anything else worth playing out there (if you've already done everything there is to do in WoW).

I am hoping that SW:ToR, FFXIV and GW2 are as polished when they release. I figure Aion will last me at least a year even if NCSoft doesn't add anything to it... and if they do add content then great. I'll have several games to pick from.


So, ya.. Aion is very polished. It helps that it was released in Korea first. That doesn't take anything away from the West release IMO. It doesn't matter to me if they beta test it in Korea before releasing it to the West.

Originally posted by linren

Originally posted by 1niceone1

It's very frustrating to see games like AOC and WAR crumble to pieces because of their unpolished natures. If only more games took it upon themselves to push for the polish of games like WoW, guild wars, FFXI etc. I'm glad Aion is looking to be in the polished cattegory, I'm not sure if it's pressure from the producer that they are releasing these unfinished half arsed games but I hope for the companies that are releasing them and the poor fans that they stop. heres to another fully fledged game hitting the shelves.

 

The issue is in fact more complex, but most suffer from the lack of funds half way through production.  Polish is only doable by company with solid backgrounds or established companies with solid history.

Blizzard:  Warcraft series, Starcraft series, Diabolos series, and then WoW.  Solid and big company with a large following.

NCsoft:  One of the biggest game company in Asia.  Lineage 1 & 2, GW, COH/COV.  Solid online game company.

Square Enix (SE) AKA Square Soft:  Many many console games including FF series, also huge following.  Solid Japanese game company.

All these 3 comapnies have one thing in common, they are all well established and sort of "brand name" company that produce quality game and have the resources to make those with high degree of polish and are able to push games global.

Basically it seems polish comes easier when the devs have more resources to work with.

Yep can add Bioware to that list with millions and millions to fall back on if they hit a snag or 2 with TOR and need that extra 6 month. A smaller company does not have such luxury they are left with 3 options when they hit the wall.

1. Fold it

2. Launch it.

3. Try and raise more capital to see development through

Unfortunately for most companies investor's when it comes to 3 they think hmmmm they need a extra 6 month why wasnt in done on time so no matter how many projection's you show them they are sat with that uncomfortable thought in their head.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

If Gameguard is only half as bad as claimed, then I don't want it on my system.

If it erases files on its own, I don't want it on my system.

If I can't play Aion without game guard, then I won't play Aion.

Game Guard is actually not that bad.  It DOES cause problems, but that's usually because of the user's inability to configure their internet security software correctly to allow Game Guard proper access to their system.

It is VERY invasive and while I've never heard of it deleting any files off of your computer, it does conflict with any type of macro program/hardware you have, such as G15 or programmable mice.  Those macro buttons simply will not work in-game.

Which is a big issue for me considering Aion has a very extensive macro system built into the game, why the hell are they blocking me from using the hardware I paid for.

Anyway, you can play Aion without Game Guard.  Although, it's still up in the air if this can possibly get you banned or not.

Looks like they are fixing the GG error

twitter.com/aion_liv/status/3692109724