I'm a longtime player of CoX (I keep quitting and coming back) and I'm hoping I can get some opinions about CoX and Champions Online from people who have played both. CoX is a very fun MMORPG and in my opinion CoX and World of Warcraft (which I keep quicking and coming back to as well) are the best MMORPGs ever created. However there are some annoying flaws with CoX (and WoW but that's another topic) and I'm wondering if CO doesn't have those flaws.

My biggest problem with CoX is the lack of endgame content. I get to 50 and I feel that I've done everything there is to do, so either I create an alt and go through the same thing all over again or I quit. I came back this month to try out the AE and while it's fun playing other people's missions to me it just doesn't feel like endgame content, to me AE is just something to do rather than something to achieve.

It annoys me greatly that the CoX developers never bothered to increase the level cap, never bothered to put in more endgame content. The way I see it they created this awesome game and they could easily have made it so much better but they didn't.

My second biggest problem with CoX is the horrendous PvP. I remember when Arena first came out and I was soooooo excited to finally try out PvP in this game and then I quickly found out how awful it is. If the PvP was decent this game's value would be even greater.

I haven't played Champions Online but I know that it's coming out tomorrow and I'm wondering whether to get it or not. How's the endgame content, have the developers talked about plans for continually increasing the level cap? Is the PvP decent? I have heard that the character creation is at least as good as CoX's, but is it better?

I played in the beta and there is one thing both games have in common , terrible pvp. Just do a google search for "thundering lunge" and you'll basically see what pvp is like from 1-20, although this skill loses its effectiveness at higher levels, new skills just take its place. As far as end game content, from what I've read/seen there is enough to sustain the average gamer for about 2 months before a major content update would be needed, I can't verify this, but I will say I hated M.City, its just a small town, but the crap is spread over a giant map making going to everything a chore even with travel powers.

Flame on lifetimers.

Under current circumstances there's no answer to your two main concerns: PvP and endgame, simply because it's just too early. It's too early to judge endgame when CO is about to release and even people in beta or the ones with headstart didn't see everything. Same goes for PvP, as in every MMO it will be imbalanced and espacially at the release, so it's still is before the greatest nerfing/balancing shitstorm.

Now since it's made by the same developers you might actually know better than people who's never played CoX but are just trying CO. You'd better keep enjoying CoX and just sit and observe how CO turns out and consider whether it's time to switch or not.

I would hold off on buying CO.. it's not that great in it's current state. That might change over time, but right now CoX is much better.

I am a long time vet of CoX, that like you comes back every few months to check things out and play again. I've beta'd Champions and enjoyed it ALOT!  As far as my experience with games to get an idea of what my tastes are.

Klingon Academy back in '99, loved it

Jump Gate.. loved it

DAoC.. played it and loved, and still love the whole RvR

WoW..  eh, kinda stuck with it as everything else has been crap. Good game, but just sooooo tired of it.

CoX.. Enjoyed it, but could only take 1 month or so at a time, then needed a break due to lack of content.

AoC. Could have been a great game, but imho had horrible management, csrs... and gms were notorious for screwing with players.

Still goofen around in WoW a bit, but will be picking up the retail copy of Champions in the morning, along with some friends that like it to.

Hope this helps a bit.   And like any new release, there are obviously going to be some bumpy moments durring the first month or two... but beta was amazing... I was so surprised on how well everything had gone.

This really should be in the CO forum but...

I was in CO beta for months and open beta was a huge step forward for CO.  That said because of the fun that is opening days, I resubbed to CoX while patches roll out daily in CO.

CoX is my rose coloured glasses MMO, no doubt.  I love the game in spurts which is fine because MMOs come out every other day so its my go to MMO.  Now I use to think it was pretty good paced, pretty and no other game really has that character control and button to action feel.  CO changes that to some degree.

In much the same way AoC makes a lot of other MMO combat systems feel like slugs, CO does it to CoX.  CoX still has that button to action advantage depending on your archetype though.  World wise its a no brainer, CO zones are diverse.  End game wise CO is much more MMOish is that it has dungeons along the way and then at the end similar to EQ2's TSO content.

But like all MMOs if the expansions or updates don't come, yes you run out of content.

Originally posted by Dionyseus

...in my opinion CoX and World of Warcraft (which I keep quicking and coming back to as well) are the best MMORPGs ever created...

...It annoys me greatly that the CoX developers never bothered to increase the level cap, never bothered to put in more endgame content...

*facepalm*

FYI, They DID raise the level cap in City of Heroes. It was originally 40 when the game first released and you can still see some of the task forces (such as the sewer trial) which cap out at level 40 that were the "end game" content back in those days. 

I'm GLAD that the developers of this game don't have the same mentality as WoW. The whole "lets raise the level cap every six months to keep the players grinding and running the same raids 500 times for some crappy gear" thing they do in that game is just to keep you subscribed. Games like WoW and Everquest have tricked people into thinking that MMORPGs are all about camping and grinding to max out your stats and give you excuses to brag about your ePeen. Thats not what these games are meant to be about and its sad that a lot of people have forgotten that (then of course there are some people who never played anything all that different from WoW/EQ that never even knew any better in the first place because that haven't seen what a real MMO can offer).

To anwser your question: Buy CO in a year from now. It will take them that long to offer enough content to compete with what CoX already has. But don't expect the PvP to ever get any better, Cryptic always builds their games for PvE first and then tacks PvP on at the end.

To be fair CoX launched at 40 yes, but was upped to 50 within months with Issue 1 because 50 was the goal for launch.  And WoW increases level caps every 2 years not 6 months.

So raising from 60>70>80 over 5 years

is not bad compared to 40>50 in months and then nothing for 4 years.

Originally posted by Solude

So raising from 60>70>80 over 5 years

is not bad compared to 40>50 in months and then nothing for 4 years.

That is, of course, only if you consider raising the level cap to be a good thing.  Personally I don't so I think that only raising the cap once in five years isn't bad compared to raising it to 85 (isn't that was it will be with the new expansion) over five years.

A level cap bump obviously isn't bad for the game in and of itself, but then again neither is leaving the level cap in place really.  It's just a matter of personal taste.

Originally posted by hehenep

Originally posted by Solude

So raising from 60>70>80 over 5 years

is not bad compared to 40>50 in months and then nothing for 4 years.

 That is, of course, only if you consider raising the level cap to be a good thing. 

Yes, exactly. WoW only increases the level cap to keep people constantly grinding for new levels and gear every few years. Its their way of keeping people addicted without actually improving their gameplay or content any.

If CoX raised the level cap what do you really think it would accomplish? You really want to grind another ten levels and have to upgrade all your enhancements again? Would that REALLY make the game better? Or would it just be more of the same thing?

If you're still unsure about CO vs CoX by the way, I posted my general thoughts on the game over here.  Also, don't take the hubbub from today all that terribly seriously.  While they most likely overnerfed things, a lot of stuff in the game really was in need of nerfing and as long as the developers aren't completely clueless things will get buffed back up eventually (except for the travel speeds most likely).

City of Heroes and Champions Online should not be compared.

I mean ok, obviously they're both hero MMORPGs and that invites the comparison. But they are pretty different. Or rather I should say City of Heroes is different from the sea of sameness that is modern MMOs.

CoH had the benefit of being created before WoW. Almost every game going into development since then has taken 98% of what WoW did and innovated with that 2% to consider themselves new. And some of these innovations are good (I like CO's single-server setup, for example) but you'll never get a radically new game experience that way.

You said you like WoW. If you like that most content is designed for soloing, that you run around looking for guys with gold ? over their heads, that you hunt specific mobs in shared space for the proper drops, that acquire components which fit into crafted bags that you can use to craft more equipment... If you like the way that plays, but want a new Superhero look, you should definitely give CO a shot.

I hated WoW. I won't be playing CO. It's that simple for me. But you say you liked it. So you certainly know the difference in play experience between that and CoX. Gameplay here is far more like WoW, but with nice superhero stuff like travel powers and more heroic-sounding mission text that nobody reads because you're just counting how many of the baddie you have to kill.

Now as to your specifics: Endgame and PVP in CO are both worse than CoH. But are they worse than CoH was when it was new? No I don't think so. For one thing, CO PVP exists, whereas it was i4 before CoH added it. And at launch, CoH went to 40 with Sewers Trial and Eden Trial as the endgame. So CO beats those.

(Character creation is comparable, but different. In some ways it's better in CO, like how you can choose stances, but CoX has a ton of choices for it's models and a less cartoony look.)

But a lot of what you want are things you really can't determine at the start, they'll depend on how Cryptic carries themselves over time. So you can pick it up and maybe it'll be another "leave and come back" game, or you can do as another poster said and wait a year. We can pretty much guarantee there are going to be power nerfs, as the classless system is just asking for abuse. And Endgame could possibly go in a couple different directions, so you might want to wait and see there too.

But based on what you like, I think you should probably give CO a shot at some point.