Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Darkholme

Congratulations to everyone who responded to the OP, as you just fed the troll ten pages of attention about nonsense... please just learn to control the urge to feed the trolls their favorite dish... pointless argument.

 

Great point Dark... I'm as guilty of that as anyone. One would think that after all these years, that I'd not rise to the bait... But some statements are so moronic, that they simply scream out for some response. Or perhaps not. In many cases the best response is silence.  Some decade I'll get better at applying that.

I don't know. Some threads that start with the most moronic assertions develop some of the most thought provoking responses. I think  discussions can be more wothwhile than what spawned them, Besides trolls hate it when you talk about something other than them in their threads.

Originally posted by Mrbluray

Originally posted by xaldraxius

You can't grief a AI because it has no feelings, but if you are deliberately setting out to ruin someone's gaming experience, then you are causing them grief... aka: Griefing.

There are a lot of cyber bullies out there who don't care in the least if they take the fun out of games. Hey it's fun for them, so screw everyone else. Mostly they are abused kids who need an outlet for their frustrations.

Of course most MMOs now have ways to get away from griefers so it's no big deal.

 

When I do PvP, I do it  with little to no feeling or emotion.   Am I an AI?

 

Nor am I concerned with the feelings of others.  WHy should I be?  I can't control how others feel.  Why worry about something you can't control?

No,  you're a psychopat

Lani Blazier on griefing and ganking

---

Originally posted by Mrbluray
There is no such thing as "griefing" or "ganking".   They are simply excuses made up for one reason or another. It's all in your head.
Think of it this way, when you kill NPCs, are you "griefing" them?  Are you "ganking" them?  Of course not.   There is no such thing as "ganking" or "griefing".   Learn not to make excuses and grind harder.

---

Lmao. This kid is the biggest fucking loser/dickhead i've ever seen. You think ur badass cuz u "have no emotions towards your enemies". Fucking loser.

Originally posted by chopstix906

 

---

Originally posted by Mrbluray
There is no such thing as "griefing" or "ganking".   They are simply excuses made up for one reason or another. It's all in your head.
Think of it this way, when you kill NPCs, are you "griefing" them?  Are you "ganking" them?  Of course not.   There is no such thing as "ganking" or "griefing".   Learn not to make excuses and grind harder.

---

 

Lmao. This kid is the biggest fucking loser/dickhead i've ever seen. You think ur badass cuz u "have no emotions towards your enemies". Fucking loser.

I'm sorry, but I can not take anyone who can't spell "you're" and "you" seriously.

Originally posted by Mrbluray

When I do PvP, I do it  with little to no feeling or emotion.   Am I an AI?

 

No, you're a sociopath.

Well, I applaud xaldraxius and other posters that actually try to help some of these trolls instead of just slaping them with some logic and spanking them with some common sense but I also know that it`s just a waste of their time.

OP and people like him obviously need to grow up mentaly and some of them do, but I can claim with confidence that the healing process will never be triggered by a post on a video game forum.

I`ll make this comment though:

I am glad that most of the PVP games provide opportunities to grief other players.

I rather have the sociopaths vent their real life frustrations in an online multiplayer video game then have them snap and take their gun to school,work place or just outside on the street  and go on real life rampage.

Yes some players will be annoyed and their game enjoyment ruined from time to time but that`s a small price to pay for what it achieves.

If some silly video game keeps the "mentals" at bay until the time comes for them to grow up on their own or by help from others then by all means, lets have more FFA PVP games please.

Originally posted by Benjola

Well, I aplaud xaldraxius and other posters that actually try to help some of these trolls instead of just slaping them with some logic and spanking them with some common sense but I also know that it`s just a waste of their time.

OP and people like him obviously need to grow up mentaly and some of them do, but I can claim with confidence that the healing process will never be triggered by a post on a video game forum.

I`ll make this comment though:

I am glad that most of the PVP games provide opportunities to grief other players.

I rather have the sociopaths vent their real life frustrations in an online multiplayer video game then have them snap and take their gun to school,work place or just outside on the street  and go on real life rampage.

Yes some players will be annoyed and their game enjoyment ruined from time to time but that`s a small price to pay for what it achieves.

If some silly video game keeps the "mentals" at bay until the time comes for them to grow up on their own or by help from others then by all means, lets have more FFA PVP games please.

 

While I understand what you are saying, real sociopaths never "grow up" and there is no known treatment. At best they improve their masks(which allows them to interact with society) and all too many end up in politics or other positions of power.  At worst, they take a lot of innocent people with them on their way out.  Thats what makes "gun free zones" so dangerous to law abiding citizens.  Its like having high levels rampaging through newbie areas. In an armed society, there would be less such incidents.

John Lott has done extensive research on the subject. He has written a fascinating book titled More Guns, less crime.  I highly recommend it, if you are interested in the truth of the matter.

www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Originally posted by Wraithone

 

While I understand what you are saying, real sociopaths never "grow up" and there is no known treatment. At best they improve their masks(which allows them to interact with society) and all too many end up in politics or other positions of power.  At worst, they take a lot of innocent people with them on their way out.  Thats what makes "gun free zones" so dangerous to law abiding citizens.  Its like having high levels rampaging through newbie areas. In an armed society, there would be less such incidents.

John Lott has done extensive research on the subject. He has written a fascinating book titled More Guns, less crime.  I highly recommend it, if you are interested in the truth of the matter.

www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Hehe, totally agree.  England, gun free zone, i.e. only the military have firearms.  Even the police have no firearms.  However, gun related crimes are on the rise there.  Criminals don't care that they are breaking a gun law.  Their breaking other laws too so why should adding one more to the list be a concern to them.

So if I got this straight , the solution to people who can't handle dying in a video game is giving them guns in RL , interesting .

Originally posted by CalgarGTX

So if I got this straight , the solution to people who can't handle dying in a video game is giving them guns in RL , interesting .

While thats certainly an "interesting" interpretation...Thats not quite what I had in mind....

Interesting to see that they now have definitions for griefing and ganking.

Originally posted by catlana

Interesting to see that they now have definitions for griefing and ganking.

I like your avatar...

You don't see this person complaining about getting "ganked"

Anyways, you can't have a definition for something that doesn't exist

---

Originally posted by Mrbluray

---

Originally posted by xaldraxius

It's not beyond your control. Play fair and no one gets hurt. And no, just because there is nothing stopping you doesn't make it fair.

---

 
Fairness is irrelevant, since fairness is subjective.   My only concern is what the game allows me to do.  If someone feels that whatever the game allows is unfair,  well, it is not of any concern to me. 

---

Fun is irrelevant.

Fairness is irrelevant.

Resistance is futile.

You will be assimilated.

Originally posted by Mrbluray

Anyways, you can't have a definition for something that doesn't exist

See: http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/aion-user-agreement.html

Specifically under Section 6:

"(d) Member Conduct. You agree not to use the Service to:

     iv.take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit any content as determined by NC Interactive at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable"

Followed by:

"You agree that NC Interactive may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you"

Although this particular TOS doesn't refer to the slang 'griefing', you will find that most players (and most importantly most GM's) will treat it as harassment (which it is).

     Perhaps the disconnect in the conversation here is due to what you are referring to when you say 'griefing', versus what that term has come to mean in common usage to many people (synonymous with harassing behaviour). For example, if you are simply referring to a scenario where you encounter another player who is lower level than you in an open PvP zone, you kill them and move on, that would not generally be considered griefing. But if you spawn camp that player or otherwise single them out for killing to the point where they are unable to progress that is generaly the sort of thing that would, in the language of the WoW TOS, be "Anything contrary to the "essence" of the Game. " basically what NCsoft refers to in my second quote above.           

     There is certainly a line to be crossed between what is fair play and what is not within the framework of any mmo. And that behaviour usually adheres to the social conventions that the mmo community (and the businesses that serve it) have come to recognize. The kind of behaviours that the term 'griefing' has come to refer to are frowned upon because ultimately they interfere with the enjoyment of a disproportionate number of players compared to the few who engage in them. In other words, no MMO provider is going to sacrifice the enjoyment (and income) of say 20 players for the sake of 1. And remember, people who make MMO's usually play MMO's, and they don't appreciate those sorts of behaviours either.

     In closing, to paraphrase the old saying, "I can't say what griefing is, but I know it when I see it" pretty much sums it up. If you harass other players (however you choose to do it, in whatever form it takes), regardless of what you call it, you can expect repercussions from the powers that be under the auspices of the TOS above, which you agree to any time you log into the game.

 EDIT:

Here is a quote from a Wired article on the subject, when someone refers to griefing this is usually how it is defined, perhaps you mean something different?

"online gaming has birthed a rich lexicon. But none, perhaps, deserves our attention as much as the notion of the griefer. Broadly speaking, a griefer is an online version of the spoilsport...what they most enjoy about those games is making other players not enjoy them."

From: http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-02/mf_goons

Originally posted by xaldraxius

You can't grief a AI because it has no feelings, but if you are deliberately setting out to ruin someone's gaming experience, then you are causing them grief... aka: Griefing.

There are a lot of cyber bullies out there who don't care in the least if they take the fun out of games. Hey it's fun for them, so screw everyone else. Mostly they are abused kids who need an outlet for their frustrations.

Of course most MMOs now have ways to get away from griefers so it's no big deal.

I disagree with your generalization.

My mother loves me very much, and I her.

I grief people because they suck and can't stop me, so why shouldn't I? It's just a game, no reason to get all whiny about stupid stuff like that amirite!?

If you don't want to be griefed on then you shouldn't play a game that allows griefing, go roll a toon on a carebear game like WoW on a PvE server.

Originally posted by rebelhero1

Originally posted by xaldraxius

You can't grief a AI because it has no feelings, but if you are deliberately setting out to ruin someone's gaming experience, then you are causing them grief... aka: Griefing.

There are a lot of cyber bullies out there who don't care in the least if they take the fun out of games. Hey it's fun for them, so screw everyone else. Mostly they are abused kids who need an outlet for their frustrations.

Of course most MMOs now have ways to get away from griefers so it's no big deal.

 

I disagree with your generalization.

My mother loves me very much, and I her.

I grief people because they suck and can't stop me, so why shouldn't I? It's just a game, no reason to get all whiny about stupid stuff like that amirite!?

If you don't want to be griefed on then you shouldn't play a game that allows griefing, go roll a toon on a carebear game like WoW on a PvE server.

you know something, that would be the best solution to games that support griefing and ganking, cause then the griefers and gankers wouldn't have anyone to play with.. top marks for spotting how to deal with people such as yourself. i don't agree with the psychology that some have put out about griefers and gankers being abused or things like that, i think they are simply either spoilt brats or just losers who waste their life in a game purely because they can't get a real life.

I personally don't mind open PvP in a game that is designed "the right way" for it. Realm Vs Realm, Guild Vs Guild, Race Vs Race etc. but when the gankers and griefers hang out in the heart of their opponents territory purely to gank/grief the players who are just starting and many many levels lower than them, thats what lowers the population and potential fun of a game, it's the first thing people see and experience and in the end they just up and leave cause of it. you gankers/griefers want your games to have more population so the game is more of a challenge for you then best advice i can give is to stick to hunting players around your own level/skill. only whimps and bullies prey on those who can't defend themselves.

one last remark regarding this crap.. READ ANY FORUM like this and you'll find that most people who play MMO's play them for the COMMUNITY SPIRIT, to simplify this meaning think back to school playground days when everyone had their own fun with their group of friends and interacted with everyone else, insert BULLIES (griefers/gankers) and you lot are the rotten apples in the playground that need to be stepped on. I wonder how you guys would like it if you were ganked/griefed from the moment you logged in to the time you logged off and i mean CONSTANTLY..   the answer would be the same, you'd eventually start whining about your own kind.

Originally posted by Antaran

Originally posted by rebelhero1

Originally posted by xaldraxius

You can't grief a AI because it has no feelings, but if you are deliberately setting out to ruin someone's gaming experience, then you are causing them grief... aka: Griefing.

There are a lot of cyber bullies out there who don't care in the least if they take the fun out of games. Hey it's fun for them, so screw everyone else. Mostly they are abused kids who need an outlet for their frustrations.

Of course most MMOs now have ways to get away from griefers so it's no big deal.

 

I disagree with your generalization.

My mother loves me very much, and I her.

I grief people because they suck and can't stop me, so why shouldn't I? It's just a game, no reason to get all whiny about stupid stuff like that amirite!?

If you don't want to be griefed on then you shouldn't play a game that allows griefing, go roll a toon on a carebear game like WoW on a PvE server.

you know something, that would be the best solution to games that support griefing and ganking, cause then the griefers and gankers wouldn't have anyone to play with.. top marks for spotting how to deal with people such as yourself. i don't agree with the psychology that some have put out about griefers and gankers being abused or things like that, i think they are simply either spoilt brats or just losers who waste their life in a game purely because they can't get a real life.

I personally don't mind open PvP in a game that is designed "the right way" for it. Realm Vs Realm, Guild Vs Guild, Race Vs Race etc. but when the gankers and griefers hang out in the heart of their opponents territory purely to gank/grief the players who are just starting and many many levels lower than them, thats what lowers the population and potential fun of a game, it's the first thing people see and experience and in the end they just up and leave cause of it. you gankers/griefers want your games to have more population so the game is more of a challenge for you then best advice i can give is to stick to hunting players around your own level/skill. only whimps and bullies prey on those who can't defend themselves.

one last remark regarding this crap.. READ ANY FORUM like this and you'll find that most people who play MMO's play them for the COMMUNITY SPIRIT, to simplify this meaning think back to school playground days when everyone had their own fun with their group of friends and interacted with everyone else, insert BULLIES (griefers/gankers) and you lot are the rotten apples in the playground that need to be stepped on. I wonder how you guys would like it if you were ganked/griefed from the moment you logged in to the time you logged off and i mean CONSTANTLY..   the answer would be the same, you'd eventually start whining about your own kind.

Na, hell just lie his ass off and say he wouldnt but you know they do whine and cry and bitch when it happens to them. BS they find it fun to not be able to do anything all day but fight some idiot they cant even kill.
 

Most bullies start crying when they are the ones who are getting camped and are the ones yelling on forums certain classes are overpowered. Afterall they think they are the best and no-one should be able to beat them.

Originally posted by Ginfress02

 Afterall they think they are the best and no-one should be able to beat them.

LOL`d

Didnt you know if some one beats you their hacking DURR

lmfao

/sarcasm

Ah, Mrbluray welcome, pls have a seat.

We'll start today's session with 1 simple question: "Where you breast fed?"

Answering this simple question can determine many flaws from your childhood.

:o

Seriously now, Mrbluray you are messed up. You my friend need a psychiatrist.

Yeah, I consider myself amateur psychologist and even I can recognize very strong symptoms of at least 3 psychological disorders when reading his posts.

Originally posted by Mrbluray

Caring about what people think is also irrelevant and gets in the way.

Then why did you even create this topic? For someone who doesn't care what other people think, you're sure spending a lot of time trying to make them see things your way.

Of course, the person you're really trying to convince is yourself, and it doesn't look like it's working. Even you don't believe the bullshit you're spouting.

Originally posted by bonobotheory

Originally posted by Mrbluray

Caring about what people think is also irrelevant and gets in the way.

 

Then why did you even create this topic? For someone who doesn't care what other people think, you're sure spending a lot of time trying to make them see things your way.

Of course, the person you're really trying to convince is yourself, and it doesn't look like it's working. Even you don't believe the bullshit you're spouting.

This is the truth. I mean, isn't it obvious he's just some angsty teen trying to feel important and special by claiming he doesn't care about other people? It's why immature people tend to gravitate toward evil characters etc. The ability to "free" themselves from morality or laws is all about the power to ignore authority. In most cases, parental authority, in older people, bosses or this "They/Them" that control all our lives.

Originally posted by Ginfress02

Most bullies start crying when they are the ones who are getting camped and are the ones yelling on forums certain classes are overpowered. Afterall they think they are the best and no-one should be able to beat them.

QFT!! Bullies(on line and off) are not interested in a "challenge". Thats why they have to have a 20 to 40 plus level advantage, on top of three or more of them per victim.  If the tables get turned, they run away FAST.  Then start howling about the class in question being Over Powered!...