Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Camplord

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Camplord

Originally posted by nickelpat

 WoW's PvP is crap in my opinion:

"Jump, Spin, Mash 1, Mash 3, Mash 9, Run, Jump, Mash 4, Spam "lolololol pwned!111!!!" in chat"

Sorry, I just don't like it much, I know others do. Now, I do think this should not, in any way, be an E-Sport. Unreal Tournament, that's a game that deserves to be an e-sport. Battlefield, Halo, Counter Strike, etc. I think you get the drift, a game where one player cannot be better than another because they have 'moar phat l337 lootz". The only deciding factor is:

Knowledge of the game

Skill on the game

If it's being played over the internet, the player's computer system can also help or hinder him. But, at least his +9 Soulbound Dragonscale Plate Chest with a +70 Strength isn't what is letting him win.

 

And video games can be competitive sports, there's no doubt about that look at games like Quake Arena, Unreal Tournament, and Warsaw that are dedicated to competive play between players. Look at E-Sports in general, there's legues and thousands of players.

You do know that when the tournaments are played everyone has the same gear avaliable to them and no addons etc?
 

Guess you dont know anything about WoW so dont comment either.

Not like they show the normal arena ladder on TV or anything where full Teir 9 people base nubs in arena=P

 

Doesn't matter that the tournaments are played on premade characters.  The fact is that EVERYONE plays on grinded characters on live servers.  Noone is going to just play WoW only at tournaments.   In order to compete in WoW you must level, grind, farm, raid for best in slots, before you can begin actually practicing the part that matters.  Compare this to other "esports" games where EVERYONE goes right to the meat and potatoes of what matters upon logging in, no matter if you're a new player or oldschool.   You install, you load it up, and you go straight to the competition.

As far as WoW taking skill, it takes a tremendous amount of skill to play in the arenas at a high level.  It's rather boring to watch due to the fact that you rarely ever have come backs in a single match.  One person dies, the match is over 90% of the time.  In addition, it's really hard to see what is going on unless you're a WoW player.

WoW is an MMORPG (pve, raids, gear heavy, grinding, farming) decisions on nerfs and buffs are made outside of the arenas, and pvp, ultimately effecting classes, compositions that would or did work in the arena.  If the MLG ever decided to drop this game, and trust me if the numbers start to dwindle they will, ESPN will not be showing other tournaments.  They have a deal with ESPN, and that is the only reason why you see WoW on there.

 

How is that difrent from any other sports? You dont think that the companys who pay to air Football and so on would stop to do so if the number of people watching it went down drastically.
 

And that they have a deal with ESPN, do you think WoW is the only game or sport or whatever you want to call it that has deals? Do you think that other sports etc just magically start to air on TV or have their own tournaments? I guess you think that magical gnomes jump out of the ground to host tournaments and give price money etc?

So funny to read laughing irl sometimes.

 

Put it this way, WoW wasn't the game to put MLG where they are, it wasn't the game that got them a deal with ESPN either.  It's not the game that gets the most views.  That game is and always will be Halo. 

Ohh so the only sports that should count as a sport are the once that are first? So lets say that tennis would have been the first sport to be aired on whatever channel then football wouldnt really be a sport even if it has most viewers today? I dont follow=P

Or have you gone far off topic now?

I don't expect you to follow.  Just as long as you know that the only people that care about WoW as an esport are WoW players.

And people who like football have prolly played it at some point=P What does it have to do with anything, doubt that the WoW players that watch it and there are quite alot of those dont care if there are others that dont play WoW that care about it as much as they do. So dont really see what you are trying to prove.

I'm surprised that this point hasn't been brought up here. WoW is not the first video game to be shown on ESPN. Madden Football has been shown forever on ESPN, well at least the past 4 or 5 years.

Originally posted by arenasb

I'm surprised that this point hasn't been brought up here. WoW is not the first video game to be shown on ESPN. Madden Football has been shown forever on ESPN, well at least the past 4 or 5 years.

But WOW is the first MMORPG that is aired on ESPN and recognized as an e-sport.

It shows Blizzard showed the other mmo designers (again) a lesson in class design and competitiveness.

For those that lost too many fights in Arena. No, it was NOT your class, it was your eye hand coordination.

And in the next expansion we'll have competitive and ladder rated Battlegrounds ...

as always ... Wow :)))

How about you stop trolling Zorn, and go play your precious WoW. You cannot convert people into playing it by spewing sugarcoated promises and lies. I'm tired of seeing your posts. If you have been sincere so far, please forgive me my rudeness, but do take some time pondering the word "objectiveness" and understand the different preferences people have when playing these games.

WoW might have been the first MMO shown in ESPN, but the latter argument is debatable. I would consider any game with real-life prizes an e-sport. WoW is not necessarily on ESPN because it is such a good competitive PvP game, but because it has the most people playing it. And most of those players playing WoW, admit it, haven't played any other MMO, so it's really the only game they know.

Every player I've considered competitive have said that WoW's PvP isn't all that good. I might not know everything about this matter and I don't have any first hand experience, but I do respect my sources and I value their opinion. I might be a victim of my surroundings but they can't all be wrong, can they? Atleast it is highly unlikely. No smoke without fire, right?

I know "I should not feed the troll" but at times, I can't help myself.

Please do keep your arrogance and your evangelist nature toned down when posting in these forums, Zorn. You need to learn to be humble - you might not have all the facts.

Originally posted by Quirhid

How about you stop trolling Zorn, and go play your precious WoW. You cannot convert people into playing it by spewing sugarcoated promises and lies. I'm tired of seeing your posts. If you have been sincere so far, please forgive me my rudeness, but do take some time pondering the word "objectiveness" and understand the different preferences people have when playing these games.

WoW might have been the first MMO shown in ESPN, but the latter argument is debatable. I would consider any game with real-life prizes an e-sport. WoW is not necessarily on ESPN because it is such a good competitive PvP game, but because it has the most people playing it. And most of those players playing WoW, admit it, haven't played any other MMO, so it's really the only game they know.

Every player I've considered competitive have said that WoW's PvP isn't all that good. I might not know everything about this matter and I don't have any first hand experience, but I do respect my sources and I value their opinion. I might be a victim of my surroundings but they can't all be wrong, can they? Atleast it is highly unlikely. No smoke without fire, right?

I know "I should not feed the troll" but at times, I can't help myself.

Please do keep your arrogance and your evangelist nature toned down when posting in these forums, Zorn. You need to learn to be humble - you might not have all the facts.

Exactly what I was going to say, though you said it a little better.

The people at Blizzard are far from geniuses in the field of PvP. They couldn't handle any form of World-wide, open PvP, as evident with Wintergrasp. The only decent PvP Battleground, AV, was ruined when Blizz started promoting zerging instead of the environmental factors of Alterac.

Rated Battlegrounds are only being implemented because casual BGers don't want to do arenas, they hate the "hardcore" comp-ran fights there, and don't want to spec into some FoTM just to win. So they have to give them a second way to earn those ratings, and of course they couldn't make it so you lose that if you lose a BG, so they just did something that I, or any other person above the IQ of a sack of rocks, could think of.

Blizzard even allows multiboxers into Arena, and even allow them to keep the #1 spot prizes as well. How's that for hand-eye co-ordination Zorn? How is it skill at all linking 4 shamans chain lighting to one button, make it instant cast and crit, and when it goes off and crits, shoots more lightning thanks to Elemental talents? Hows that for a slice of fried bullsh**?

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Jairoe03

 

According to dictionary.com

sport
–noun
diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. (3rd definition)

Anything competitive can be considered a sport, it just so happens its ALSO a word to describe a more physical genre of competition.

 

I watched the Iron Chef a couple times, is that considered a sport? How about a beauty pageant?

Its all semantics and honestly who cares. I just felt like being a jackass back to the closed minded fools out there in regards to even using the word sports. It is played competitively and that is all that really matters entirely. Whether or not anything is a sport is of little to no value. You just sound stupid (not saying you are, but its all how you put yourself out there. Its more or less foolish).

In regards to WoW being on ESPN showing all other MMO's out, the only reason why WoW is even on top is because they simplified the game so much that anyone can play it to level 80 without knowing how their class even functions (yet alone how to effectively choose talents to fulfill a role). Because of this, this does not make WoW anywhere as good in terms of video game competition. Honestly, you can only do so many things differently where half of it is just who's the first to fire (can be affected by lag and other random things that normally can occur in a video game). The game is not all that complex especially when you can take a PvP team, see which classes they are and estimate 90% of the time what their build is within the first 10 seconds. WoW is a game made for everyone, but it doesn't make it the best. Their popularity can also be attributed to their brand name (Blizzard) and their past history, other MMO's merely have not been given the same chance (nor ever will sadly).

This seems kinda like when rolling stone magazine listed Britney spears as one of the girls of rock... it isn't about sports or non-sports or whatever else... it's about mainstream and money. WoW is mainstream and will make them money... does the rest matter?

 I've seen my post has created a large quote wall there, I just want to clarify something:

It's not just WoW, I can't justify seeing ANY MMORPG as an e-sport. Nerfs to class skills is a huge reason, really, a big one for me. The combat is mostly just building a FOTM build and going out there and using it until a new nerf/buff comes. I just can't condone it, there's too many changing variables, to me, to make it a sport in the way I think. A game like Unreal Tournament, really has no changes. Bugs get fixed, but weapons rarely get changed and because there's no build there's no FOTM or anything of the such. It's really about raw skill and tactics.

When he was talking about how it's not the most viewed, I believe he was getting at the fact that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Ok OP the concept you need to grasp is called capitalism, those with all the money get all the stuff. It was mentioned first page but not since then.

WoW did not get on ESPN because it was the best PVP MMO or the best overall MMO or most fun MMO to watch, while it may be one or all of those things, the ONLY reason WoW is becoming a E-Sport is that it has 11 million, or however many now, subscribers. ESPN will only show games that have large fan bases so they get people to watch it, that plus Blizzard is extremely rich and can put alot of money towards it.

That is the one and only reason it got on TV, that's not bashing WoW which is a fine game, so stop the fanboism and realize the facts money runs the world and blizzard has a awful lot of it

Originally posted by Dibdabs

WoW pvp is a joke - it's a run-in-circles, jump up and down, macro-mashing, carebear yawnfest.

+10

again this is big news because World of Warcraft is the first mmorpg to be shown on national TV Network and becoming the first to be considered an e sport among the professional sports. It gives major exposure to more potential subscribers, and well lets face it wow will only go up and not down.

 This is also a major milestone because, there will never be another mmorpg that will ever catch up to wow in terms of subscribers. And this piece of news have just hit the nail to the coffin of long debated "wow is dying" comment made by wow haters. Wow after 4 years will reach even higher peak then originated. With this news in mind, wow have not reached its potential peak yet, and will always be miles ahead of its competitors in terms of subscribers. There are no more wow killers, there never will be this is a fact.

World of Warcraft is no longer the 800 pound gorilla, it is now officially 2,000 pound Godzilla. I hope the developers try not to clone wow in hopes to reach to wow's subscribers base, I hope there are developers make fun original mmorpg. Trying to copy and compete against Wow is just futile.

It's not a sport. Competitive activity maybe but certainly not a sport.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

 

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

Originally posted by altairzq

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

Let's face it: this is another blow in the face of the WOW haters.

WOW being reckognised as a valid e-sport on ESPN is just a fact.

And ALL 10  classes can make it to the TOP 100 of the world in official PVP  LADDER based PvP rankings.

Grtz Blizzard, it shows while other promise Porsche, Ferrari and Maserati they deliver ... Trabants.

I know I have the Mercedes SLE of MMO's and the 60% market share proves most people know it by now.

Waiting for the rated BG's in the next patch.....:))))

Originally posted by Furor

again this is big news because World of Warcraft is the first mmorpg to be shown on national TV Network and becoming the first to be considered an e sport among the professional sports. It gives major exposure to more potential subscribers, and well lets face it wow will only go up and not down.

this is a good thing. it opens doors for other potential MMOs to be given more publicity. Umm..if any potential subscribers haven't signed up for wow i don't think this will change anything. everyone knows about wow and probably had a chance to try it so i don't see number going up very much. It may go up when the new xpac is released due to old players coming back to see if the game is better or worst then they remember.

 This is also a major milestone because, there will never be another mmorpg that will ever catch up to wow in terms of subscribers. And this piece of news have just hit the nail to the coffin of long debated "wow is dying" comment made by wow haters. Wow after 4 years will reach even higher peak then originated. With this news in mind, wow have not reached its potential peak yet, and will always be miles ahead of its competitors in terms of subscribers. There are no more wow killers, there never will be this is a fact.

are you kidding me? wow boasted about 11m subscribers at its high point and that included the numbers from asia..china specifically. you take asia out the mix and that leaves about 5-6m players between NA and EU. MMO gaming is still young and its going to gain even more popularity over the next few years.

whether player want to believe or not WoW will end up falling victim to old age due to new advancements in technology and new pioneers in gaming coming up with ways to take MMO gaming to the next level. granted this won't happen over night..wow took about 3+ years including development to get to where it is.
 

World of Warcraft is no longer the 800 pound gorilla, it is now officially 2,000 pound Godzilla. I hope the developers try not to clone wow in hopes to reach to wow's subscribers base, I hope there are developers make fun original mmorpg. Trying to copy and compete against Wow is just futile.

Zzzz wow itself is just a compilation of other games. what exactly did wow do that was so innovative that was unlike anything that has been done before?

...I don't think the next big game will be very innovative. It probably will copy blizzard in that it will take the good stuff from alot of the current games and combine them into one huge game for everyone to enjoy.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

 

Let's face it: this is another blow in the face of the WOW haters.

WOW being reckognised as a valid e-sport on ESPN is just a fact.

And ALL 10  classes can make it to the TOP 100 of the world in official PVP  LADDER based PvP rankings.

Grtz Blizzard, it shows while other promise Porsche, Ferrari and Maserati they deliver ... Trabants.

I know I have the Mercedes SLE of MMO's and the 60% market share proves most people know it by now.

Waiting for the rated BG's in the next patch.....:))))

Hehe, Zorn..you're priceless at times.

I love the game as a pve game. They've done everything right in that area, but I find it's pvp a fucking joke. It's a damn gear grind, boring one at that, ruined by what they laughably call twinks, ebay gold and buy gear of some random person..lol, premades and class imbalance. Some classes, or combination of classes, will just own anything thrown at them. Premades blows in any pvp-game though. A random pug got no chance at all against people with teamspeak or ventrilo and most will just leave when facing them, so premades blows to high heaven.

Anyway, that WoW is on ESPN has nothing at all with being a good pvp game, or even a good game, it has everything to do with mainstream and money. WoW is mainstream and will make them money. See, it's as simple as that. Now go cyberwank to WoW numbers in another thread please. Sometimes it's embarrasing to think I play the same game as people like you.

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

 

Let's face it: this is another blow in the face of the WOW haters.

WOW being reckognised as a valid e-sport on ESPN is just a fact.

And ALL 10  classes can make it to the TOP 100 of the world in official PVP  LADDER based PvP rankings.

Grtz Blizzard, it shows while other promise Porsche, Ferrari and Maserati they deliver ... Trabants.

I know I have the Mercedes SLE of MMO's and the 60% market share proves most people know it by now.

Waiting for the rated BG's in the next patch.....:))))

 

Hehe, Zorn..you're priceless at times.

I love the game as a pve game. They've done everything right in that area, but I find it's pvp a fucking joke. It's a damn gear grind, boring one at that, ruined by what they laughably call twinks, ebay gold and buy gear of some random person..lol, premades and class imbalance. Some classes, or combination of classes, will just own anything thrown at them. Premades blows in any pvp-game though. A random pug got no chance at all against people with teamspeak or ventrilo and most will just leave when facing them, so premades blows to high heaven.

Anyway, that WoW is on ESPN has nothing at all with being a good pvp game, or even a good game, it has everything to do with mainstream and money. WoW is mainstream and will make them money. See, it's as simple as that. Now go cyberwank to WoW numbers in another thread please. Sometimes it's embarrasing to think I play the same game as people like you.

1) If a random pug had a chance against a coordinated group you would say the game requiered no skill.

2) If any other game different from WOW requiered a coordinated team to win, you would say that game was awsome and the best PVP game ever.

WOW bashers FTW!

Originally posted by Mythricor

Ok OP the concept you need to grasp is called capitalism, those with all the money get all the stuff. It was mentioned first page but not since then.

WoW did not get on ESPN because it was the best PVP MMO or the best overall MMO or most fun MMO to watch, while it may be one or all of those things, the ONLY reason WoW is becoming a E-Sport is that it has 11 million, or however many now, subscribers. ESPN will only show games that have large fan bases so they get people to watch it, that plus Blizzard is extremely rich and can put alot of money towards it.

That is the one and only reason it got on TV, that's not bashing WoW which is a fine game, so stop the fanboism and realize the facts money runs the world and blizzard has a awful lot of it

i do hope espn show what people really love (but i doubt it)

80%  of pvper arent in arena they are in all the other pvp place 

wsg,wintergrasp etc.most 11 m couldnt care less about arena 

but they love a good brawl in wintergrasp ,or a run like hell in wsg sorry if i leave the other best out ,(i dont remeber their name)

thats why most player that pvp in wow ,pvp

saying arena is the best of sport in wow is silly ,wintergrasp and all the other like it even the new one are what player want to see in espn not arena we can see arena easy anywhere lol,no need for espn to do that

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

 

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

I hear that Chess is a sport. Heck even Jeopardy and The Price is Right are sports as well.

Call me purist...

MMOs don't belong in the e-sport world. Money and high exposure are reasons behind it... I guess the era where only a select few could compete in games such as quake 3, RTCW, Unreal Tournament is now reaching it's end.

Blizzard is slowly starting to look like Microsoft... invading and controlling one entity at a time shall we say?

I'll watch a few matches... who knows, I could be wrong about it but I have my doubts.

Originally posted by Ponico

Blizzard is slowly starting to look like Microsoft... invading and controlling one entity at a time shall we say?

Well, they've already been having some big issues with their big money-maker, just like a Certain 360-toting company. So hey, I guess the two are closer than we all thought!

(Secretly, Blizzard is owned by Bill Gates, wanting to create an MMO that rubs the awesomesauce of Windows in all the Mac user faces by letting them play it, but suffer from horrible glitches while the window's version isn't crashing cause of a fly's shadow)

---

Originally posted by Furor
http://www.mmo-champion.com
 
awesome blizzard, now warcraft is a professional e sport now. Now who says blizzard's pvp sucked? It is officially mainstream pvp now. Congrates to blizzard for becoming the first mmorpg to become professional e sport in the world of professional sports and the world.

---

E Sports and PvP arent necesarily the same thing.

And just because something is mainstream doesnt mean its any good.
If thats the case, you were a huge backstreet boys fan.

/edit Hey zorn, I see you brought your WoW spirit and pom poms!!
Raw Raw sis boom baw
Kickem in the right knee
Kickem in the left knee
Kickem in the Wee Knee TOUCHDOWN!!!!!