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Originally posted by Fkinglinux
I agree to disagree sir. Griefing is creating grief in another player. If it's not there, it's not griefing. You could substitute the word grief for any other and the logic would remain the same, you could call it enraging, but if the other player isn't enraged by you actions, then you aren't enraging, follow me now? Yes Sir! but the fact remains, your actions where canceled you still got griefed, regardless of your emotional response. From Dictionary.com Usage It is important to remember that the term griefer does not refer to any player that causes grief to others. Rather, it refers to a player whose only objective in the game is to cause grief, and who cannot thus be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals, because they have no in-game goals other than to cause grief.
We disagree on this, because I believe if no grief is caused, then I have not been griefed, similar to a pickpocket who attempts to pick my pocket yet gets nothing, I have not been pickpocketed. So this is the key issue to our debate and we should just agree to disagree.
While i see your argument that you cant be griefed and can accept that, its a turn around from your initial argument that there is no such thing as greifing. I guess we were able to change your mind then? :)
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Originally posted by demarc01 Yes Sir! but the fact remains, your actions where canceled you still got griefed, regardless of your emotional response. From Dictionary.com Usage It is important to remember that the term griefer does not refer to any player that causes grief to others. Rather, it refers to a player whose only objective in the game is to cause grief, and who cannot thus be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals, because they have no in-game goals other than to cause grief.
We disagree on this, because I believe if no grief is caused, then I have not been griefed, similar to a pickpocket who attempts to pick my pocket yet gets nothing, I have not been pickpocketed. So this is the key issue to our debate and we should just agree to disagree.
While i see your argument that you cant be griefed and can accept that, its a turn around from your initial argument that there is no such thing as greifing. I guess we were able to change your mind then? :)
If you look back, you'll see that I had already conceded the point. |
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Griefers and gankers have negligible genitalia and low self esteem, pity them...
Nuff said. |
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Originally posted by Butterball
Ganking .. such a broad term. To me ganking is killing someone when they have a slim to zero chance of winning. Which in open PvP is acceptable to me.
Griefing .. well thats the major issue in this thread and it still goes on :) |
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Originally posted by bazak
once again i ask you this mrbluray it would be incredibly helpfull to the argument in which all here ar involved if you would answer this and many other questions you are ignoreing in this thread you seem to be answering only the ones which you can easily dance around without having to properly answer or the ones which you answer by refuseing that these things exist even though at minimum 75% of the gaming population would agree that they do exist Time is an Illusion, Perception is reality |
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Originally posted by xaldraxius No you cant. their wireless internet sucks,you gonna lag,die often, and got Griefed. on top of that you gonna get eaten by lions. |
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Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k No you cant. their wireless internet sucks,you gonna lag,die often, and got Griefed. on top of that you gonna get eaten by lions.
Depends on how fast he can run ... |
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Originally posted by Mrbluray
Whether or not someone else feels bad is beyond my control and is none of my concern.
With everything else you have stated in this thread it makes this statement false. Greifing and ganking players untill they quit playing becomes a loss for the opposite faction as people quit or change servers. Eventually the other side will have little to no players making it impossible to win in pvp if there is none to fight. Not to mention it causes the devs $$, and means less content and expansions with less playing. With those points it has to be a concern to you if you want to win. No competition means you can't win if there is no one there to lose. Edit.. I personally dont gank/greif.. I want as many there on the other side as possible. Win or lose it's no fun without someone to actually fight. |
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Well I'm out.
The OP and his supporters are skipping too many questions / counter arguments to make this thread interesting anymore. Its no longer a debate and just the same old crap being repeated verbatim. Have at it all !!! |
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im with demarco1 on this one cya all Time is an Illusion, Perception is reality |
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Yeah, I couldn't take the heat either way. lol So, I'll have to settle for trying to dole out free doses of psychotherapy on the internet. It's not a great job, or a rewarding job, or in any way a financially lucrative job... but I'm doing my part to help people get in touch with their feelings, and that is ummm... well... entertaining enough to pass a couple hours anyway. |
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Originally posted by bazak
Mostly all the accounts agreeing with the OP are the OP himself lol... www.creative-inn.com |
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Originally posted by Mrbluray But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. If the differences in level preclude victory of one side over the other, then it wasn't a contest. Thus no one won or lost. One person has annoyed another person, specifically because they enjoyed annoying that other person. That is griefing. A player who plays against someone not to beat them, but to cause them grief, because they find causing that grief is enjoyable, is griefing.
Again, the reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is that you lost. If there is a difference in levels, go grind harder and level up.
Murder is a myth. It doesnt exist. Therefore people shouldnt be put in jail for committing that action. Obviously getting shot with a gun doesnt matter. The reason why you get shot doesnt matter either. The only thing that matters is that you got killed. If you dont own a gun, you should most likely get one. Thats why banning the use and ownership of guns is wrong. :) |
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Originally posted by Arlana75
With everything else you have stated in this thread it makes this statement false. Greifing and ganking players untill they quit playing becomes a loss for the opposite faction as people quit or change servers. Eventually the other side will have little to no players making it impossible to win in pvp if there is none to fight. Not to mention it causes the devs $$, and means less content and expansions with less playing. With those points it has to be a concern to you if you want to win. No competition means you can't win if there is no one there to lose. Edit.. I personally dont gank/greif.. I want as many there on the other side as possible. Win or lose it's no fun without someone to actually fight.
Whether someone else decides to quit or not is beyond my control and is none of my concern. Also, you forget that this is a 3 front war (PvPvE). Once you finish one enemy faction, you focus on the other. So if you are Elyos and you defeat the Asmodians, your side can now focus on the Baluar. |
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Ah... all these posts will be so much more fun when the game is live and we know who plays what character on what server :P. Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release. |
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Originally posted by Mrbluray reported for trolling, now get back in your cave and leave our nice boards alone! |
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Originally posted by Mrbluray Whether someone else decides to quit or not is beyond my control and is none of my concern. You use the argument that since it doesn't concern you, it doesn't count. Hate to break it to you, but just because things don't concern you, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Bottom line, regardless of what you pretend to believe, other people ARE concerned how other players feel and what they do. And their concern is that they are pleased if those players are frustated by their actions. Thus griefing. |
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Originally posted by Mrbluray
That is correct. Finally someone understands. Think of it this way. Does the person who is doing the "griefing" or "ganking" actually think they are "griefing" or "ganking"? Of course not. The only people who use such terms are the people who cry about losing.
Buddy, you are certainly ignoring a lot. I've already told you, there are several posts here and on Aionsource about players who extol the virtures of ganking and griefing. they buy into it and belive in it and do it. Now, that's fine but it seems that there is just a difference in how you look at it over other people. Secondly, you say that there is no emotional response in playing but you completely diferentiate that winning is better than losing. I've already told you that if one thinks that winning is better than losing then you are quantifying the experience therefore there is a downside to losing. Thirdly, you keep saying grind more and I've already told you that grinding is the mindless reptition of repeating the same thing over and over. There is no learning in grinding. There might be learning in practicing but "grind more" means to repeate ad nauseum. Fourth, I do actually agree with the sentiment that if one wants to play a pvp game then one should expect to get ganked or griefed. I do however know that most people do not seaparate their emotions from tasks at hand. If they did the world would probably be a lot better place and we might have a lot less wars. But we don't therefore a good amount of humanity tends to inhabit some part of an emotional place. Fifth, True, if the game allows you to gank and grief then it is not your job to NOT do it. I can agree with you there. However, let's call a spade a spade and ackowledge that if you are trying to bring down their morale then you are being contrary to what you are trying to tell us. My thought is that though you are on the right track you just won't acknowledge the whole of the situation and only see things the way you want to see them. If you can separate yourself from the task at hand in gameplay then good for you. But again, since you aren't the center of the universe I think there are other people whose opinions matter just as much. I'm starting to think you are a troll because you really aren't making an argument for discussion but just repeating the same old things. Had you actually made a post regarding the separating of one's emotions from gameplay and looking at the situation in a different light then that would have been more constructive. for instance, if I try a game that I really don't care too much about and lose some precious items I probably won't think much of it. however, if I am playing a game where I have a lot of time invested and lose an item then I might be prone to be a bit more upset. The solution would be to put it all into perspective and from there realize that it is all part of the game play and that if one doesn't like it then the game isn't for them. In chess if I lose a queen I don't go nuts. That's because it's part of the gameplay. However, you aren't really taking the argument to the next level. So you either can't take it to the next level or you only understand a fraction of what is going on. One simply can't state that they believe the moon is made of cheese and expect everyone to take what they say as the truth. Especially without a plausible argument or reasonable proof.
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Originally posted by Mrbluray
I sincerely pity you, if you really are this stunted on how to deal with other people. |
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lol Mrbluray & Fkinglinux are the same person. The guy gets on one account and trolls, then hops on the other to agree with himself to try and make it look like he is right or that someone is agreeing with him.... Eh tomorrow is monday so he will be stuck in a locker somewhere in his highschool and we won't have to see him on here.
www.creative-inn.com |
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Originally posted by dhayes68 Whether someone else decides to quit or not is beyond my control and is none of my concern. You use the argument that since it doesn't concern you, it doesn't count. Hate to break it to you, but just because things don't concern you, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Bottom line, regardless of what you pretend to believe, other people ARE concerned how other players feel and what they do. And their concern is that they are pleased if those players are frustated by their actions. Thus griefing.
I never said players feeling bad doesn't exist. I just said it's none of my concern. |
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The obvious lack of logic is astonishing in this thread. Griefing is the action of deliberately trying to ruin the entertainment of others. Griefing is not killing someone in a game via PvP. That is simply another form of entertainment. When I am killed, I am not being griefed, I am being defeated in combat. However, when I am attempting to leave an area, and am killed. Come back to life making another attempt to leave and no longer am trying to fight, and am killed again. That is griefing. You are killing a player who is no longer trying to PvP, but merely leave the battlefield. You know I am not fighting, You know that I am trying to leave the area, yet you are continously attacking and killing me to which you gain no EXP, currency, nor other ingame items. You are merely doing it to bother me.
There is no honor, no glory, in killing those who are not fighting back. There are no emotions involved. There is a difference between a warrior trying to be the best, and a murderer.
You can have all the e-honor you want. Because in the real world, your ingame lives mean nothing.
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Originally posted by ZivaDomini
Killing a player who is trying to leave a battlefield isn't griefing, its a route :P |
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Originally posted by ZivaDomini
Sorry, you can not simply choose terms for which to engage in combat.. This is not griefing either, because there is no such thing as griefing. It's still PvP combat.
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Originally posted by Mrbluray You use the argument that since it doesn't concern you, it doesn't count. Hate to break it to you, but just because things don't concern you, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Bottom line, regardless of what you pretend to believe, other people ARE concerned how other players feel and what they do. And their concern is that they are pleased if those players are frustated by their actions. Thus griefing. I never said players feeling bad doesn't exist. I just said it's none of my concern. Do you also admit the existance of other players feeling good for killing low level players who can't possibly harm them and receive no in-game reward and the good feeling comes from making the other player feel bad? |
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