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8/30/09 6:05:41 PM#126
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
You still got griefed. regardless you consider it as one or not.
but your countermeasures are right. |
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8/30/09 6:06:53 PM#127
Originally posted by Rajen
How classy of you. Do you know the OP personally or are you just a very insightful dude? Griefing is just one player trying to evoke an emotional response from another, no response, no griefing, end of story. |
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8/30/09 6:08:14 PM#128
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
How classy of you. Do you know the OP personally or are you just a very insightful dude? Griefing is just one player trying to evoke an emotional response from another, no response, no griefing, end of story.
failed logic, in many ways. |
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8/30/09 6:09:00 PM#129
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
I listed several options for you, and there are a lot more I didn't list. Also, if you just take a break from the game for 15 minutes, they have usually moved on.
While I agree there are lots of ways to avoid it .. that does not mean it does not exist. You yourself say, and i quote, If you don't give 2 shits, you cant be griefed, which is true. That also means though that if you do care you can be greifed. Since people are emotional beings people do tend to care hence there is Greifing. All you have said is that you can avoid greifing (which I agree you can avoid it) but that in itself tells us there there is greifing. After all .. why would you avoid something that does not exist? In your own words you've admitted that there is greifing .. just that its avoidable, again which I agree with.
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8/30/09 6:10:26 PM#130
Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k
failed logic, in many ways.
I agree to disagree sir. Griefing is creating grief in another player. If it's not there, it's not griefing. You could substitute the word grief for any other and the logic would remain the same, you could call it enraging, but if the other player isn't enraged by you actions, then you aren't enraging, follow me now? |
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8/30/09 6:10:59 PM#131
Originally posted by Mrbluray If there is no such thing as griefing, and no emotional component, what would be the motivation for a high level char to kill over and over a much lower level char? In a lot of games the difference in levels precludes rewards or just because after killing the same person x number of times the reward stops. Not to mention, what feeling of winning can there be for a high level to one-shot over and over some noob? That is a good question. For me personally, I don't pay attention to level. I have however killed players repeatedly. In the case of Aion, I do it in order to win. Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general. If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not? But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing. |
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Originally posted by xaldraxius
Reflection on the past is different than fighting in the present. |
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Originally posted by dhayes68 That is a good question. For me personally, I don't pay attention to level. I have however killed players repeatedly. In the case of Aion, I do it in order to win. Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general. If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not? But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The number of people that killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. |
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8/30/09 6:13:44 PM#134
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
I listed several options for you, and there are a lot more I didn't list. Also, if you just take a break from the game for 15 minutes, they have usually moved on. your solutions prove the point that griefing has taken place. Also, if you have any kind of real mmo experience then you KNOW that some people do enjoy ruining the game for other people. There's no need to debate it, they crow about it, they're proud of it. |
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8/30/09 6:13:55 PM#135
i have to say this is a very depressing thread, but there is one thing you refuse to answer mr mrbluray and all you other griefers and those are the psych questions you seem to avoid them like acid answer them man and if you can properly answer at least half of the ones in this thread i think everyone would move on.
on another note i have depression and i understand where your coming from (am not saying that any of them have it but i understand the reason at least that they do what they do) with the OOH i must win thing but its just not worth it there are much more important things in life than that learn some empathy man |
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8/30/09 6:14:39 PM#136
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
failed logic, in many ways.
I agree to disagree sir. Griefing is creating grief in another player. If it's not there, it's not griefing. You could substitute the word grief for any other and the logic would remain the same, you could call it enraging, but if the other player isn't enraged by you actions, then you aren't enraging, follow me now? Yes Sir! but the fact remains, your actions where canceled you still got griefed, regardless of your emotional response. |
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8/30/09 6:15:16 PM#137
Originally posted by Mrbluray
Isn't that your bridge I hear calling your name? |
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8/30/09 6:16:27 PM#138
Originally posted by dhayes68 That is a good question. For me personally, I don't pay attention to level. I have however killed players repeatedly. In the case of Aion, I do it in order to win. Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general. If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not? But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
I'm going to concede this point. Just because I can not be griefed, doesn't mean everyone else can't. As long as there are people who get to excited about video games, there will be griefing. But however, I will remain steadfast on the point that they should be ignored in the first place and perhaps should take up a different hobby that doesn't stress them out so much. |
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8/30/09 6:16:43 PM#139
Originally posted by Mrbluray That is a good question. For me personally, I don't pay attention to level. I have however killed players repeatedly. In the case of Aion, I do it in order to win. Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general. If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not? But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. If the differences in level preclude victory of one side over the other, then it wasn't a contest. Thus no one won or lost. One person has annoyed another person, specifically because they enjoyed annoying that other person. That is griefing. A player who plays against someone not to beat them, but to cause them grief, because they find causing that grief is enjoyable, is griefing. |
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8/30/09 6:17:43 PM#140
Sure sure, I agree with that. I'm not going to go out and cut myself because someone killed my character, or even have a good cry if somebody keeps doing it, but there are a lot of younger kids that might do either. Do you think a child is wrong for feeling sad when they are getting killed repeatedly? You may not feel that way because you have matured past it, but that makes it all the more deplorable that you, a reasoning mature adult, would be so uncaring. Stuff just means more when you are a kid, stupid things can seem like the end of the world, and even something as irrelevant as a video game can leave lifelong scars. You don't care... Unfortunately that is an epidemic nowadays. Why wouldn't a normal person feel bad about hurting someones feelings just because it's not important to them? It's callous and cruel. |
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8/30/09 6:18:42 PM#141
lol did your parents not hug you enough growing up? use you as an ashtray? |
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Originally posted by dhayes68 But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. If the differences in level preclude victory of one side over the other, then it wasn't a contest. Thus no one won or lost. One person has annoyed another person, specifically because they enjoyed annoying that other person. That is griefing. A player who plays against someone not to beat them, but to cause them grief, because they find causing that grief is enjoyable, is griefing.
Again, the reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is that you lost. If there is a difference in levels, go grind harder and level up.
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8/30/09 6:21:33 PM#143
Originally posted by xaldraxius
lol, you need be in Africa, dealing medicine to the poor. not playing mmos
edit:damn i quoted much |
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8/30/09 6:21:43 PM#144
Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k
I agree to disagree sir. Griefing is creating grief in another player. If it's not there, it's not griefing. You could substitute the word grief for any other and the logic would remain the same, you could call it enraging, but if the other player isn't enraged by you actions, then you aren't enraging, follow me now? Yes Sir! but the fact remains, your actions where canceled you still got griefed, regardless of your emotional response. From Dictionary.com Usage It is important to remember that the term griefer does not refer to any player that causes grief to others. Rather, it refers to a player whose only objective in the game is to cause grief, and who cannot thus be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals, because they have no in-game goals other than to cause grief.
We disagree on this, because I believe if no grief is caused, then I have not been griefed, similar to a pickpocket who attempts to pick my pocket yet gets nothing, I have not been pickpocketed. So this is the key issue to our debate and we should just agree to disagree. |
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8/30/09 6:21:53 PM#145
Originally posted by Mrbluray That is a good question. For me personally, I don't pay attention to level. I have however killed players repeatedly. In the case of Aion, I do it in order to win. Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general. If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not? But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The number of people that killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. So says the griefer. These posts are quickly entering the realm of Donkeyville. Killing players repeatedly with nothing to gain? Smells like griefing. And before you say it yet again...I played UO as well. When you purposly attack and kill someone over and over with the sole point of ruining their playtime, that is griefing, you dolt. It doesn't come down to ruining thier morale or anything like that. It is nothing more than a dickish powertrip. http://www.speedtest.net/result/1031474168.png |
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8/30/09 6:22:23 PM#146
Can't I do both? :) |
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8/30/09 6:22:42 PM#147
Originally posted by Mrbluray But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. If the differences in level preclude victory of one side over the other, then it wasn't a contest. Thus no one won or lost. One person has annoyed another person, specifically because they enjoyed annoying that other person. That is griefing. A player who plays against someone not to beat them, but to cause them grief, because they find causing that grief is enjoyable, is griefing.
Again, the reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is that you lost. If there is a difference in levels, go grind harder and level up.
That the whole point mate. Greifing prevents the *Go grind harder and level up* answer. So if your being greifed and cant *go level up and grind harder* whats the answer? Log off. I am pretty accepting of PvP and love it .. Greifing it not something I do or find acceptable. And you still have not answered my question from posts back .. too hard for you I guess?
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8/30/09 6:23:56 PM#148
Originally posted by Fkinglinux
I agree to disagree sir. Griefing is creating grief in another player. If it's not there, it's not griefing. You could substitute the word grief for any other and the logic would remain the same, you could call it enraging, but if the other player isn't enraged by you actions, then you aren't enraging, follow me now? Yes Sir! but the fact remains, your actions where canceled you still got griefed, regardless of your emotional response. From Dictionary.com Usage It is important to remember that the term griefer does not refer to any player that causes grief to others. Rather, it refers to a player whose only objective in the game is to cause grief, and who cannot thus be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals, because they have no in-game goals other than to cause grief.
We disagree on this, because I believe if no grief is caused, then I have not been griefed, similar to a pickpocket who attempts to pick my pocket yet gets nothing, I have not been pickpocketed. So this is the key issue to our debate and we should just agree to disagree. Huh? Just because you lost nothing does not make the attempt a crime. You get one too... http://www.speedtest.net/result/1031474168.png |
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8/30/09 6:24:11 PM#149
Originally posted by Mrbluray But we're not talking about you, or Aion. You said there is no such thing as griefing. That applies to everyone in every game. So, you don't do it, and it can't happen to you, but you are aware that some people do with their high-level chars go and kill players over and over again with no in-game benefit and possibilty of feeling victory because they've beaten someone who couldn't have possibly beaten them? And if you're not aware of it, I'm telling that that happens. There are players who enjoy not winning cause there is nothing gained, but enjoying ruining the game for the other player. That does happen. And its griefing.
No. It's not. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter. The number of times the person killed you doesn't matter. The reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you lost. You weren't griefed or ganked. You simply lost. "Griefing" and "ganking" are simply excuses you make up. If the differences in level preclude victory of one side over the other, then it wasn't a contest. Thus no one won or lost. One person has annoyed another person, specifically because they enjoyed annoying that other person. That is griefing. A player who plays against someone not to beat them, but to cause them grief, because they find causing that grief is enjoyable, is griefing. Again, the reason why they killed you doesn't matter. The level of the person who killed you doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is that you lost. If there is a difference in levels, go grind harder and level up. I assure you the difference in level matters to the griefer who has specifically chosen targets that cannot damage him, and it matters to the person who cannot damage their attacker in anyway. And the reason absolutely matters. Its the crux of what we're arguing. You can't deny that somebody out there doesn't get enjoyment from and actively seeks out to ruin the gaming experience (not beating them) of another player. That is griefing.
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8/30/09 6:25:10 PM#150
Originally posted by xaldraxius
I am by definition a lurker, but sometimes I make a rare post, this is one of them. I'm not going to join the general discussion because I think the OPs arguments and ideas are so stupid they're not even arguing about. However... During my lurking times I've seen a few posts by you, xal, and sometimes I've agreed, sometimes disagreed and sometimes I've agreed somewhat. Anyway, this is probably the first post in a long while that I wholeheartidly agree with. I'm glad to see someone here takes this stand - especially in these times, where as you say, not caring is epidemic. |
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Perhaps in a level less game you *might* have a point. Other wise its just more ganker justification/delusion. 
