Originally posted by Smokey-Joe

I'm writing this to say goodbye to TUX, Anxiety and the rest of SWG. Since the removal of TUX, Flurry has been lacking life IMO. The pvp has started to die out and there is seriously nothing to do. I would just like to say thank you again TUX for all you did when i was wrongly suspended by a Head GM! You didn't give up and you kept helping. I have finally decided to end my SWG subs and move on. I've had enough of SWG's development team. They really need to fix their priorities. I've put up with too many updates that kill SWG and i'm seriously not waiting for this stupid 'zombie' update. Seems they would rather bring out some pathetic PvE content than a GCW update.

As the for the rest of the SWG senators (Other than Tux, Anx and badger) You seriously need to come out of Draakuul's @ss for some air. I have an Officer, smuggler, Commando, Medic, Jedi and a spy and I probably know the mechanics better than you all. Why don't i apply for the senate? Because i'm not a tool of SOE. Enough Said.

 

Good Luck to all those that still wish to play SWG.

 

Smokey Joe (Flurry)

SOE tool status:

untold   [  ]

pending  [  ]

TOLD  [x]

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

1.   I didn't say Anxiety broke rules specifically.  He was removed from Senate seat because he was felt to not be a "good fit".   My point in that it two fold, that  yes there is something corrupt going on with Community Management and also that Anxiety wasn't a blessed angel of purity before.  He had negative posts for them to use as an "excuse".

You are still doing it as I predicted it would happen earlier in this post.  Stop trying to rationalize what happened as any fault of those who were kicked out.

All 3 of these senators were deemed suitable for the senate prior to Drakuul being hired.  None of them were problems worth kicking out. 

Now you have this new foul mouthed jack ass who openly mocked the playerbase in his first week on the job and you still want to color your former senators as the problem?  Drakuul is the common factor in all three cases.  It doesn't matter what justification, or lack of, that you want to pin on the players.  They were kicked out as a result of a new CRM that would have been fired by any other company in the industry. 

For heavens sake, Drakuul is the worst offender of anyone in involved in this with his conduct on the forums and breaking rules.  If you removed him from after his first week this situation would not be happening, but you simply want to portrait it as the result of actions by those who were kicked out.  Stop.

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

2. Are you suggesting that I and the other Senators left start soem sort of rally and opposition against Drakull?  I suppose we could...but I don't see how that would help.  It would hurt more than help, in my opinion, because 1. Drakull is still seen as the middle man and has to forward on our community requests and 2. he would likely start ignoring us.  Currently, the Developesr look to him as the main person to decompress what we all ask of him.

If Anxiety and Tux are able to get something done, then thats as it shoudl be.  They are the ones who have the evidence, not me. 

How about starting with showing what value the senator program is to the development cycle of swg.  Lets see how effective all of the top 5 lists have been at getting resolved through patches.  Lets see some lists and what was done to resolve them.  I'm not talking about what you fixed as being an unpaid bug tester, but real developer responses to the communities wishes. 

From all angles your program appears to be nothing more than a smokescreen for soe devs to hide behind.  It is the physical manifestation of what Julio Torres said on G4TV about players wanting to vent for a while and then calming down and accepting changes. 

I'll propose a challenge to you, but I know you wont take it.

Talk to the other senators and compile a top ten list of the biggest problem areas of the game that affect the overall player base. It doesn't have to be specific to their area of oversight.   See if players really want the zombie update perhaps or they want the game to go in other directions.  See if they really want more loot cards or want more game updates instead.   Find out what is important to the overall playerbase. 

Then post it and ask the devs for a gameplan on how they plan to address those issues. 

Don't be wishy washy about it either.  Be clear, concise and considerate.  Don't give them any reason to paint you as someone who doesn't fit in. 

When they don't respond, ask again and again.  Keep asking until they have no choice but to either admit they have no plans to act on the players wishes or they simply ignore/kick you out.  If they ignore you, demand an answer.  Get the other senators to support this.  See how committed soe is to the senator program.

Put your money where your mouth is and see just how much effect you really have in exchange for all the placating you do on behalf of soe to the playerbase. 

All you have to do here is get an answer to 1 question which is the core purpose of your role as a representative of the players, because honestly I don't see a lot players happy with the direction the game is going even though the senate has been around for a few years. 

Lets see if soe really listens to the players like they could not shut up about at fan faire. 

Honestly, I bet the combined senators could get more done in the game with an organized walk out and the pressure that would generate than you are collectively doing by being quiet, not rocking the boat and trying to get a small fix thrown at you like a dog gets a bone to shut him up. 

Originally posted by AnXieTyX

Originally posted by Iheamylap

When I was talking about attacking other Senators, I meant that directed at Anxiety, sorry about that.  Your also mistaking most of my direction about supporting the community in a negative way as being directed at you, when I am directing it at Anxiety.  So, sorry for the confusion.

 

 

Your accusing me of "attacking players"... Attacking players is against the rules of the forums... If I have this long standing history of attacking players as you claim... Why have I never been warned for it? Why have I never been suspended for it? Why have I never been banned for it? Because it seems to me as if the answer is quite simple... My posts didn't break the forum rules.

So as you try to sell people here on the fact that I did something wrong and posted something that was just oh so terrible... The facts simply do not support your claim.

And moving past TUX and myself... Just look at DrDista... He was also removed from the senate as even you acknowledge... Whats his supposed crime? I mean your trying to sell people on the fact that TUX broke the rules... And that I was supposedly attacking people and have this long history of breaking the forum rules... Well what was his "E-Crime" that got him kicked out.

I mean it seems as if your trying your hardest to deny the fact that whats going on is flat out bullsh*t and trying to reach for straws to justify it not only to yourself... But to anyone else who will listen to you.

 

Originally posted by Iheamylap

I think its funny that you guys bring up my mentioning of allowing others to "rock the boat" while I maintain the public face as something I shouldn't admit or be public about. I don't see how its anything wrong, because like I said, I do not ask people to violate forum rules. I just ask them to be loud and vocal in ways that would otherwise get me IGNORED by the developers. I'm sorry if you guys don't see it, but there are many ways to get something heard and scene, and not all of them involve the *leader* standing up and screaming his guts out constantly. Especially when some folks are better at it than he is.

 

Maintain public face? You mean a public face of being a leader who's afraid to lead? You mean the same public face that Vince has? Like I said... Go search the forums. There are more posts of players talking about Vince's failure to do his job on several issues than you can find of people hanging my jock.... And that includes all the spy fanboi's who were pissed off at me for bringing up one of the largest game imbalances since CH4 when commando was walking around in near god mode.

That's the public face you want? All I can say is that's pretty sad man.

And since you've all but said that I was guilty of rocking the boat... It seems funny to me that I had no problems communicating with the devs. Almost every time I sent a dev a PM... I almost always got a reply... Even if the reply wasn't something I wanted to hear. And the same goes with TUX... For someone who rocked the boat so much... He also never had problems talking to the devs. And if TUX wants to do so (because I wont put words in his mouth in this thread again)... He can go into some of the in depth details about how is input and influence through communicating with the devs impacted the pvp update in ways that extend past just the battlefield.

Rocking the boat doesn't mean you don't get heard... To think it does is pathetic.

Well, it seems you guys got heard well enough to loose your Senate seats. Goodjob.

There is no one way to lead and no one way to get the job done.  I also didn't disagree that there was something fishy and unjust going on in the Community Management team. you keep ignoring that point.  I'll repeat myself again in saying, my point was you and Tux were not complete victims in this, like you keep trying to state.  I assume we'll just keep disagreeing, but thats my opinion.

You might not like how "I" do things, but I'm still there, in my position, still getting something done.  I still voice my concerns and I still stand up for what needs to be said about the smuggler community, but I do it in my own way.  My own way DOES try and secure my Senate seat, but only in that, loosing it looses one of the advantages it gives me.  Otherwise, I wouldn't care.  I voiced my concerns before and will do so after, but as a Senator some of the things I say/complain about seem to have a higher priority than they did when I wasn't Senator.  

I guess now I effectively turned this into an assumed Iheam Vs Tux&Anxiety battle, so I'm done.  My mistake of thinking I could make a point about you two guys' behaviors.  I wasn't trying to discount that you were wronged by SOE, but that it takes Two to Tango.  My point also wasn't that you two did not accomplish positive work as Senators, but that, atleast as far as Anxiety goes, nto all of your attempts at getting your voice heard were constructive.  Sure, the Senate doesn't have to be a buddy-buddy group of hand holding friends, but you should atleast TRY to work with people and not constantly rub them the wrong way...which is usually what you did Anxiety.

Anyways, I guess I've given enough food to the trolls here and I'm getting bored so moving on.  Thanks for the debate.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

2. Are you suggesting that I and the other Senators left start soem sort of rally and opposition against Drakull?  I suppose we could...but I don't see how that would help.  It would hurt more than help, in my opinion, because 1. Drakull is still seen as the middle man and has to forward on our community requests and 2. he would likely start ignoring us.  Currently, the Developesr look to him as the main person to decompress what we all ask of him.

If Anxiety and Tux are able to get something done, then thats as it shoudl be.  They are the ones who have the evidence, not me. 

 

How about starting with showing what value the senator program is to the development cycle of swg.  Lets see how effective all of the top 5 lists have been at getting resolved through patches.  Lets see some lists and what was done to resolve them.  I'm not talking about what you fixed as being an unpaid bug tester, but real developer responses to the communities wishes. 

From all angles your program appears to be nothing more than a smokescreen for soe devs to hide behind.  It is the physical manifestation of what Julio Torres said on G4TV about players wanting to vent for a while and then calming down and accepting changes. 

 

I'll propose a challenge to you, but I know you wont take it.

Talk to the other senators and compile a top ten list of the biggest problem areas of the game that affect the overall player base.  See if people really want the zombie update perhaps or they want the game to go in other directions.   Find out what is important to the overall playerbase. 

Then post it and ask the devs for a gameplan on how they plan to address those issues. 

Don't be wishy washy about it either.  Be clear, concise and considerate.  Don't give them any reason to paint you as someone who doesn't fit in. 

When they don't respond, ask again and again.  Keep asking until they have no choice but to either admit they have no plans to act on the players wishes or they simply ignore/kick you out.  If they ignore you, demand an answer.  Get the other senators to support this.  See how committed soe is to the senator program.

Put your money where your mouth is and see just how much effect you really have in exchange for all the placating you do on behalf of soe to the playerbase. 

 

All you have to do here is get an answer to 1 question which is the core purpose of your role as a representative of the players, because honestly I don't see a lot players happy with the direction the game is going even though the senate has been around for a few years. 

Lets see if soe really listens to the players like they could not shut up about at fan faire. 

 

 

Honestly, I bet the combined senators could get more done in the game with an organized walk out and the pressure that would generate than you are collectively doing by being quiet, not rocking the boat and trying to get a small fix thrown at you like a dog gets a bone to shut him up. 

 

Ok, well I suppose I should respond to this even though I said I was done lol

Your plan and challenge would probably work IF all of the Senate could back it up. Its actually similar to something we have been discussing lately...but getting every single Senator behind a plan is hard, if near impossible.  As you can tell from the arguements between me and Tux & Anxiety, there are a lot of different minds in the Senate.

Many of us actively voiced out concerns with the Zombie update.  They were either met with Zero response, or *Sorry but this is how it is deal with it* type of response....or folks were coerced into being removed as Senators.  Maybe if we had had a 100% unified front in the beginning we could have changed the developers opinions...but I doubt it.  Dotanuki (speling?) seemed pretty damned stubborn if you ask me, and also is a big Horror fiction fan...so he loved nothing better than to get Zombies in to SWG....and then leave the development team lol

Like I said before, Teesquared could probably change things....but I doubt he will.  Maybe if 100% of the playerbase were against it....but weren't close to 100% of the playerbase against NGE but it still went live?  Yep, we have all established that its not always a winning battle with SWG.

I know you are probably assuming that because of my comments about not "rocking the boat" by being loud and obnoxious on the forums that I and others don't speak out about things we dislike...but it isn't true.  My personal style is to take the calm approach.  Others isn't.  But we all voice our concerns and we arent' all content.  Where will it get us? Who knows, but I am still trying my darned best while I"m there.

Originally posted by Smokey-Joe

Smokey Joe (Flurry)

Awe dude...Smokey, you're one of the best guys I ever had the pleasure of meeting. I saw your posts on the "real" forums, but that one was buried along with so many others. Thankfully, Dooso captured it for his video and I had read it before it got pulled. I will never forget you Smokey but if I could have ONE wish...it's that I'm on YOUR side for ToR ;)  and it wont be THAT far away. Thanks for losing so much sleep to fight me...you gave up a helluva lot to be on when I was...I enjoy my sleep far too much to have returned the favor :P 

Sir...the respect goes both ways...just like Vincent (<-- That's a JOKE Iheamylap!!!)

AnXieTy...you have my permission to post whatever you want mate. You know me, you know what we went through, you know how I still feel. Tell them anything I told you...well...most of it...exclude that one night when I was drinking a lil too much and we were buffing up in that tight little tent together and I asked you to /forage...it was totally just to see if your head hit the side of the tent...I SWEAR 

I don't want to sound like I think you and the other senators are bad people or something like that.  I know from past experiences in the soe community that you are most likely people of great intentions, but that system you are in is totally warped and never designed to do what it was presented as.

I've been presonally thrown under the bus by soe for bugs that went live as being undiscovered, when I know for a fact we reported them.  You are not working in some system that is designed to improve the game.  You are working for a company that is using you and your fellow senators as a defense shield. 

Just listening to you talk about how you are ignored, nothing changes and the HOPE that you can get some small thing done if you are lucky is not very promising.  Keep in mind this whole system was set up with the intention of listening to the players and designing the game with their wishes in mind.  Every time soe makes some press release, they talk about how much they listen to the players.  What all the senators here detail is a system that isn't working and how many sacrifices senators have to make just to be allowed the priviledge of having a seat in a system that is defunct and by your own admission corrupt. 

Think about the senate system as a whole and your role in it.  Who is the benifactor, the players or soe?  The whole system really enables soe to do more harm than any good you can sneak in. 

Name of this forum...  SWG veteran Refuge

Definition of Refuge

•a safe place, especially for people being persecuted

as stated in encarta.msn.com/dictionary

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

Originally posted by Smokey-Joe

I'm writing this to say goodbye to TUX, Anxiety and the rest of SWG. Since the removal of TUX, Flurry has been lacking life IMO. The pvp has started to die out and there is seriously nothing to do. I would just like to say thank you again TUX for all you did when i was wrongly suspended by a Head GM! You didn't give up and you kept helping. I have finally decided to end my SWG subs and move on. I've had enough of SWG's development team. They really need to fix their priorities. I've put up with too many updates that kill SWG and i'm seriously not waiting for this stupid 'zombie' update. Seems they would rather bring out some pathetic PvE content than a GCW update.

As the for the rest of the SWG senators (Other than Tux, Anx and badger) You seriously need to come out of Draakuul's @ss for some air. I have an Officer, smuggler, Commando, Medic, Jedi and a spy and I probably know the mechanics better than you all. Why don't i apply for the senate? Because i'm not a tool of SOE. Enough Said.

 

Good Luck to all those that still wish to play SWG.

 

Smokey Joe (Flurry)

When all this crap went down soooo many peeps wrote really nice things about Tux that were imediately ripped out of the  forums.  Unfortunately Tux didn't get to see many of them because afterall he was on vacation with his kids.  I just want to thank you for what you did write, yours was one of the best. 

I too have left galaxies and it hurts as there were many aspects I loved in the game and after playing daily for over five years it was hard to cancel all my accounts, but I did, and I am not sorry.  Principles and standing up for what is right matters, even if it is just a game. 

Small side note :)  I also want to thank you for killing me so many times in PvP.  You and Itallion and actually too many other IMPS to name gave a new meaning to "put the fear of God in me"  because of you all I actually had  a lifetime pass at most cloners across the galaxies! 
 

Take care Smokey and hope to run across you again in another game.

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

And this is the main problem with the senate.  When Grey revitalised the senate, he actualy had a belief that it would be a factor.  For all his efforts, he was canned.  How much easier is it to can a senator than can the guy who made the senate?

Grey fought the "old" SOE addage of "we're the boss, we don't care, we do exactly what we want".  Dan Rubinfield outlined SOE's customer reflection very well as they were perfectly willing to get rid of 200,000 players to do their CHANGE (NGE).  This had been SOE's way of doing business since Koster was pushed out and it remains today.

How many times has SOE seen player concerns and had a total disregard for them?  CU?  NGE? GCW revamp?  C6CD?  GU-Whatever?  Time and time again, SOE has made it very plain that they couldn't care less about their customers or playerbase.  They are always willing to lose what they have in favor of some scheme to come up with what they don't have.

When I basicly put Iheamylap under cross, yesterday, I already knew the answers to those questions.  (1st rule in cross, don't ask a question you don't know the answers to)  Yes, current senators do protect their seats.  If they want them, they have to.  Some people would work for nothing if you make them boss, and the current senate is ripe with this type of attitude.  Case in point?  Badger-syndrome, altho even SOE got tired of his "I'm great" attitude and had to remove him/let his time run out.  Every once in a while the senate gets a person who believes he can make a difference and it just doesn't fit with SOE's version of the senate and problems insue as with Tux, Arcon, Shis, Anxiety, etc..

I still believe the main problem with the senate is SOE.  Ihermylap, I'm aware that you believe that your trying to do good with your position but the SOE deck is stacked against you.  They do not want you to do good.  They want you to be a "tool", nothing more, nothing less.  You are being used.  They don't want your "Top-5", they don't want your input.  They want the illusion that the customer has some say-so and that's all.  You admitted yourself that your issues were not being addresed and hope for nothing except small bones thrown at the dogs, out back.

I have no idea what would "fix" this problem as it's most probably un-fixable.  Until SOE CHANGES it's attitude, the senate is a non factor except for giving some players a different color name on thier forums, and the illusion that they can make a difference. 

Other than that?  Every time you get a Tux, in the senate, who actualy believes he can make a difference, there is bound to be frustration (on the part of the senator) and trouble (on the part of SOE).

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

 

 

OMG the TOLD is being busted at a phenomenal rate in this thread! i cannot believe the senators were stupid enough to crawl out from under smed's desk and face the playerbase for once. the senate is full of pompous arrogant douchecanoes who did nothing but take it up the wazoo for soe and then turn to the players and LIE LIE LIE

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

 

 

They do it, because they are going to continue working with the people who are clearly the problem in this situation.  It is the same practiced self denial that is echoed over and over after soe goes out of its way to create yet another public relations mess where they screw over their players.

It happens like clockwork every couple of months.  Sit back an enjoy the show as their subscribers try vainly to justify the actions of soe and how ridiculous it sounds. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

 

 

They do it, because they are going to continue working with the people who are clearly the problem in this situation.  It is the same practiced self denial that is echoed over and over after soe goes out of its way to create yet another public relations mess where they screw over their players.

It happens like clockwork every couple of months.  Sit back an enjoy the show as their subscribers try vainly to justify the actions of soe and how ridiculous it sounds. 

 

i suspect more than one senator or "senaturd" are actually paid astroturfers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

 

 

My registration date it actually a few months earlier than yours.

Well, this thread is very enlightening.

After all the hate, arguing, QQ'ing, logic, reason, and a dash of crazy, we're still no where :P

I admit I was stunned to see TUX and Anx removed. I'm honestly not sure how much people would value my opinion on this since I call them both my friend.

After everything has happened though, I kinda feel like it was best that it happened. I feel bad that all the work they put into this was for not. I feel terrible that the Commando Senate seat is being battled over by a bunch of people that don't know a thing about commando (except a few people that really know what their doing). I feel terrible that the leader of the GCW reform was smacked around right before the GCW was supposed to see some light.

But what I do feel good about is that they are out of the senate before things got worse. As crazy as the SWG community is, it does lead the Community Relations team to be changed a LOT. It's a tough job, and I have not met anyone that could handle the position quite like TH did a few years ago... Greypawn was terrible. He meant a lot of good, and I think he got over excited being he's a huge star wars fan, but the implementation of the senate turned bad fast...

Valara was a sweetie. She's so calm and light hearted, I feel many people just walked over her. She was the best since TH IMO.

Elias... Wow what a joke. I'm glad he didn't last. He didn't have the time of day for the players.

Now Draak... I had high hopes and expectations for this guy. I should have known from the start it was going to be a very awkward experience after I read his intro post and got to see that he seems a bit troubled. I don't think he's handled any of this right. I think he was right to turn to upper management for a problem he couldn't solve, but Braase just started when he went to her and she doesn't know anything about our community, so what was she to do other than solve the problem her own way?

TUX and Anx are great people and mean well. They have/had a dedication for SWG and really wanted it to be the best for the players. But I am glad that they are out now instead of stuck in the system surrounded by walls.

I talked to Draak awhile back inquiring about the vacant CR position as I was interested in stepping in since I've been a part of the community for so long and he told me simply "It's not available at this time"... Which confused me as it was on the website still.. Oh well.

So what can you do? Move forward or take another path? I'd say take the path less traveled but it seems to be traveled by more players than not.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

And this is the main problem with the senate.  When Grey revitalised the senate, he actualy had a belief that it would be a factor.  For all his efforts, he was canned.  How much easier is it to can a senator than can the guy who made the senate?

Grey fought the "old" SOE addage of "we're the boss, we don't care, we do exactly what we want".  Dan Rubinfield outlined SOE's customer reflection very well as they were perfectly willing to get rid of 200,000 players to do their CHANGE (NGE).  This had been SOE's way of doing business since Koster was pushed out and it remains today.

How many times has SOE seen player concerns and had a total disregard for them?  CU?  NGE? GCW revamp?  C6CD?  GU-Whatever?  Time and time again, SOE has made it very plain that they couldn't care less about their customers or playerbase.  They are always willing to lose what they have in favor of some scheme to come up with what they don't have.

When I basicly put Iheamylap under cross, yesterday, I already knew the answers to those questions.  (1st rule in cross, don't ask a question you don't know the answers to)  Yes, current senators do protect their seats.  If they want them, they have to.  Some people would work for nothing if you make them boss, and the current senate is ripe with this type of attitude.  Case in point?  Badger-syndrome, altho even SOE got tired of his "I'm great" attitude and had to remove him/let his time run out.  Every once in a while the senate gets a person who believes he can make a difference and it just doesn't fit with SOE's version of the senate and problems insue as with Tux, Arcon, Shis, Anxiety, etc..

I still believe the main problem with the senate is SOE.  Ihermylap, I'm aware that you believe that your trying to do good with your position but the SOE deck is stacked against you.  They do not want you to do good.  They want you to be a "tool", nothing more, nothing less.  You are being used.  They don't want your "Top-5", they don't want your input.  They want the illusion that the customer has some say-so and that's all.  You admitted yourself that your issues were not being addresed and hope for nothing except small bones thrown at the dogs, out back.

I have no idea what would "fix" this problem as it's most probably un-fixable.  Until SOE CHANGES it's attitude, the senate is a non factor except for giving some players a different color name on thier forums, and the illusion that they can make a difference. 

Other than that?  Every time you get a Tux, in the senate, who actualy believes he can make a difference, there is bound to be frustration (on the part of the senator) and trouble (on the part of SOE).

Arg! I so thought I was done responding but I can't help myself! lol

Yeah, you raise some good points.  For one, I do have a fools hope that I can make a change, even if its small.  I have had some bugs and issues I reported fixed, although they were not directly related to Smuggler profession.  There was 1 thing in our Top 5's addressed so far, that was Unlinking Quick fix.  Other than that, not much except a little recent feedback.

Greypawn had good intentions.  I do think there's been some good come out of the Senate he made.  Not as much as we would like, but enough to give those of us involved hope.  Sure, we are all probably tools, but hey, we want to try atleast.   Even after my hopes of getting a Smuggling System revamp were generally shot down (one of the ways I hoped to get Vets to come back), I have clung on with out throwing in the towel.  Believe you me, I wanted to.   Maybe I just like being tortured =D

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

I wish all the currently active senators would return to the SWG game they love so much and work on fixing the problems and leave veterans who are seeking refuge alone.

We know who we are,  what we did,  and exactly what happened and we don't need idiots rehashing it.

 

 

I don't mind one bit.

As a matter of fact I've found this whole conversation quite interesting.

I don't mind either, but I do find it quite amusing that not one of them had registered here before all this happened. And why THIS thread? Why not one on "zombies"? Why not one of the other threads where people are asking about populations? Why come here and try to justify SoE in THIS thread? 

 

 

My registration date it actually a few months earlier than yours.

 

such selective vision you have. care to address the rest of the statement?

Originally posted by j1flaw

Well, this thread is very enlightening.

After all the hate, arguing, QQ'ing, logic, reason, and a dash of crazy, we're still no where :P

I admit I was stunned to see TUX and Anx removed. I'm honestly not sure how much people would value my opinion on this since I call them both my friend.

After everything has happened though, I kinda feel like it was best that it happened. I feel bad that all the work they put into this was for not. I feel terrible that the Commando Senate seat is being battled over by a bunch of people that don't know a thing about commando (except a few people that really know what their doing). I feel terrible that the leader of the GCW reform was smacked around right before the GCW was supposed to see some light.

But what I do feel good about is that they are out of the senate before things got worse. As crazy as the SWG community is, it does lead the Community Relations team to be changed a LOT. It's a tough job, and I have not met anyone that could handle the position quite like TH did a few years ago... Greypawn was terrible. He meant a lot of good, and I think he got over excited being he's a huge star wars fan, but the implementation of the senate turned bad fast...

Valara was a sweetie. She's so calm and light hearted, I feel many people just walked over her. She was the best since TH IMO.

Elias... Wow what a joke. I'm glad he didn't last. He didn't have the time of day for the players.

Now Draak... I had high hopes and expectations for this guy. I should have known from the start it was going to be a very awkward experience after I read his intro post and got to see that he seems a bit troubled. I don't think he's handled any of this right. I think he was right to turn to upper management for a problem he couldn't solve, but Braase just started when he went to her and she doesn't know anything about our community, so what was she to do other than solve the problem her own way?

TUX and Anx are great people and mean well. They have/had a dedication for SWG and really wanted it to be the best for the players. But I am glad that they are out now instead of stuck in the system surrounded by walls.

I talked to Draak awhile back inquiring about the vacant CR position as I was interested in stepping in since I've been a part of the community for so long and he told me simply "It's not available at this time"... Which confused me as it was on the website still.. Oh well.

So what can you do? Move forward or take another path? I'd say take the path less traveled but it seems to be traveled by more players than not.

well well well I am SO glad that you are happy that Tux and Anxiety are out.   Yeah it's JUST great Tux left a game he loved isn't it?  Just great he and his kids had to give it up.  You know you were always a numbers man crunch this and crunch that and come up with these marvelous ideas for upgrades etc but my question always was when the hell did you ever REALLY play the game?  Oh yeah a token appearance here and there and when you popped in guild everyone would break their ass to get you in a group to help you out?  Yeah, it's great Tux is out sn't it.    You used him like everyone else  and  he broke his ass helping you.   But when push comes to shove...well there you are  going IMP now... gonna single-handedly save PvP.. LMAO...well if you play Imp as much as you played Reb maybe YOU can turn the game around.

Sorry Cos but saying what happend to Tux was for the best sucks in more ways then I can imagine.
 

I said it's for the best for HIM. He needed to get out of there. In the end it was causing too much stress and hardship, that he needed to get out. Yes it sucks he left the game, that's not what I wanted, but things have a way of working themselves out.

I played this game every day for a looooong time. Once I started not playing that much, they never went out of their way to get me in their groups. I told them many times don't bother since I don't get in often and I don't want to screw up their cycle of groups. TUX and others insisted. I never said I deserve anything special, but TUX being a friend of mine insisted on me running an instance or being in their group. You know how many times I've run ISD, Hoth, and Exar? 4,1,2 respectively. That's it. So saying they take me along just because it's me is a false statement.

I was extremely active in the senate and not a kiss @ss fan boi. I pushed for changes and was very active in the Commando update. I was against some of the changes, let them know it and let the community know it but that didn't change anything.

I know a lot of people are pissed off that TUX isn't playing right now, but IMO (see what I did there, it's my opinion) He needed a break from the game as I felt like it was becoming so much of a job for him that he couldn't enjoy himself anymore. Bombarded with emails, tells, guild duties, it became a job... Much of the reason I stopped play as much.

Maybe all TUX needed was a break. I'll let him speak for himself there, but taking a break from a game that is supposed to be to take you out of the stresses of life, but instead brings more to you is a good thing.

I never said I was going to save PVP. I'm only switching because Anx has been bugging me to for about 2 years and I need some change in environment.

Feel how you will about me, that's fine. I know what I've done, what I've done for others, and that's all I care about.

EDIT: And ayelin, you know as well as I do that TUX was getting burned out, so you can't say this was a good experience for him to be going through

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Originally posted by Esquire1980

And this is the main problem with the senate.  When Grey revitalised the senate, he actualy had a belief that it would be a factor.  For all his efforts, he was canned.  How much easier is it to can a senator than can the guy who made the senate?

Grey fought the "old" SOE addage of "we're the boss, we don't care, we do exactly what we want".  Dan Rubinfield outlined SOE's customer reflection very well as they were perfectly willing to get rid of 200,000 players to do their CHANGE (NGE).  This had been SOE's way of doing business since Koster was pushed out and it remains today.

How many times has SOE seen player concerns and had a total disregard for them?  CU?  NGE? GCW revamp?  C6CD?  GU-Whatever?  Time and time again, SOE has made it very plain that they couldn't care less about their customers or playerbase.  They are always willing to lose what they have in favor of some scheme to come up with what they don't have.

When I basicly put Iheamylap under cross, yesterday, I already knew the answers to those questions.  (1st rule in cross, don't ask a question you don't know the answers to)  Yes, current senators do protect their seats.  If they want them, they have to.  Some people would work for nothing if you make them boss, and the current senate is ripe with this type of attitude.  Case in point?  Badger-syndrome, altho even SOE got tired of his "I'm great" attitude and had to remove him/let his time run out.  Every once in a while the senate gets a person who believes he can make a difference and it just doesn't fit with SOE's version of the senate and problems insue as with Tux, Arcon, Shis, Anxiety, etc..

I still believe the main problem with the senate is SOE.  Ihermylap, I'm aware that you believe that your trying to do good with your position but the SOE deck is stacked against you.  They do not want you to do good.  They want you to be a "tool", nothing more, nothing less.  You are being used.  They don't want your "Top-5", they don't want your input.  They want the illusion that the customer has some say-so and that's all.  You admitted yourself that your issues were not being addresed and hope for nothing except small bones thrown at the dogs, out back.

I have no idea what would "fix" this problem as it's most probably un-fixable.  Until SOE CHANGES it's attitude, the senate is a non factor except for giving some players a different color name on thier forums, and the illusion that they can make a difference. 

Other than that?  Every time you get a Tux, in the senate, who actualy believes he can make a difference, there is bound to be frustration (on the part of the senator) and trouble (on the part of SOE).

Arg! I so thought I was done responding but I can't help myself! lol

Yeah, you raise some good points.  For one, I do have a fools hope that I can make a change, even if its small.  I have had some bugs and issues I reported fixed, although they were not directly related to Smuggler profession.  There was 1 thing in our Top 5's addressed so far, that was Unlinking Quick fix.  Other than that, not much except a little recent feedback.

Greypawn had good intentions.  I do think there's been some good come out of the Senate he made.  Not as much as we would like, but enough to give those of us involved hope.  Sure, we are all probably tools, but hey, we want to try atleast.   Even after my hopes of getting a Smuggling System revamp were generally shot down (one of the ways I hoped to get Vets to come back), I have clung on with out throwing in the towel.  Believe you me, I wanted to.   Maybe I just like being tortured =D

 

Can't fault a guy for trying, I guess.  But due to the fact that you are trying, it's only a matter of time before your the next Tux or Anxiety.  That's why I asked the question, yesterday, of what will you do when............ .

There is a reason that Esquire has never been a senator.  Even tho I ran against Badger for GP senator the 1st time and Kauri (poor Kauri RIP) backed me to the max.  I think I was the 1st one to be told, "It's not a good fit".  In fact, I was told that they held me in esteam, right up there with Fisher.  ROFL  I was one of the most vocal on C6CD and remain that way to this day.  With what the senate is, they should just clone Badger and just install him as senator(s) for everything.  lol

But good luck, anyway.

Originally posted by DrTuxiety

Originally posted by j1flaw

Well, this thread is very enlightening.

After all the hate, arguing, QQ'ing, logic, reason, and a dash of crazy, we're still no where :P

I admit I was stunned to see TUX and Anx removed. I'm honestly not sure how much people would value my opinion on this since I call them both my friend.

After everything has happened though, I kinda feel like it was best that it happened. I feel bad that all the work they put into this was for not. I feel terrible that the Commando Senate seat is being battled over by a bunch of people that don't know a thing about commando (except a few people that really know what their doing). I feel terrible that the leader of the GCW reform was smacked around right before the GCW was supposed to see some light.

But what I do feel good about is that they are out of the senate before things got worse. As crazy as the SWG community is, it does lead the Community Relations team to be changed a LOT. It's a tough job, and I have not met anyone that could handle the position quite like TH did a few years ago... Greypawn was terrible. He meant a lot of good, and I think he got over excited being he's a huge star wars fan, but the implementation of the senate turned bad fast...

Valara was a sweetie. She's so calm and light hearted, I feel many people just walked over her. She was the best since TH IMO.

Elias... Wow what a joke. I'm glad he didn't last. He didn't have the time of day for the players.

Now Draak... I had high hopes and expectations for this guy. I should have known from the start it was going to be a very awkward experience after I read his intro post and got to see that he seems a bit troubled. I don't think he's handled any of this right. I think he was right to turn to upper management for a problem he couldn't solve, but Braase just started when he went to her and she doesn't know anything about our community, so what was she to do other than solve the problem her own way?

TUX and Anx are great people and mean well. They have/had a dedication for SWG and really wanted it to be the best for the players. But I am glad that they are out now instead of stuck in the system surrounded by walls.

I talked to Draak awhile back inquiring about the vacant CR position as I was interested in stepping in since I've been a part of the community for so long and he told me simply "It's not available at this time"... Which confused me as it was on the website still.. Oh well.

So what can you do? Move forward or take another path? I'd say take the path less traveled but it seems to be traveled by more players than not.

well well well I am SO glad that you are happy that Tux and Anxiety are out.   Yeah it's JUST great Tux left a game he loved isn't it?  Just great he and his kids had to give it up.  You know you were always a numbers man crunch this and crunch that and come up with these marvelous ideas for upgrades etc but my question always was when the hell did you ever REALLY play the game?  Oh yeah a token appearance here and there and when you popped in guild everyone would break their ass to get you in a group to help you out?  Yeah, it's great Tux is out sn't it.    You used him like everyone else  and  he broke his ass helping you.   But when push comes to shove...well there you are  going IMP now... gonna single-handedly save PvP.. LMAO...well if you play Imp as much as you played Reb maybe YOU can turn the game around.

 

Sorry Cos but saying what happend to Tux was for the best sucks in more ways then I can imagine.
 

but see it's great for someone who:

1.works for the company not the player

2.operates on a hidden forum away from those he is supposed to represent

3.a insecure dolt more worried about his own position aboard this sinking ship than anything else

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

 2 publishes for zombies, even the guy in charge of it bails before this mockery is released. From the outside looking in, it's hard to not laugh at how serious you guys are about your Senate positions. Not that you shouldn't be or anything, or proud of what you do, just funny from an outsider's perspective. I know i have nothing to do with this conversation, or know nada about it really, but no wonder the Senate is a joke.  And there are others lining up to take the spot lol...still.

Someone nominate the vet refuge here on mmorpg.com. We can play for free at least...more than the senate has been able to accomplish for the paying community lol. We've also provided you with many old houses for you to destroy..what content has the senate provided for SWG? We give the current players others to hate instead of SOE, can the current Senate deflect for SOE as well? Not funny?

  You guys would make great community leaders in other games for sure though. Wasting your abilities with this game and dev team. It's beyond obvious...one of the old CM's even said as much, and one of the reasons he bailed. It's just kinda funny hearing you guys talk about it the way you do.

Yeah, don’t get me started with Dotanuki.

They transitioned a good producer (DeadMeat) we at the time by moving him to DCUO, and then replaced him with some guy (Dotanuki) who worked previously on Cell Phone Games!

Granted I started to warm up to the new guy and even told him so at Fan Faire. However I felt very betrayed when he said he was leaving for another position at SOE without even finishing what he (admittedly) pushed for, that being Death Troopers among other things.

Now I have no problem with Death Troopers being added to the game, heck we already have genetically altered Zombie like NPCs in one of the older dungeons of the game (The Warren). What I do have a problem with is the amount of attention it seems to be receiving and how they can keep adding "content" to SWG, yet not fix the game itself.

I still enjoy SWG for what it is, but they do make it hard to like the game, that’s for sure. Once TOR and EMU come out with playable versions, things will surely change on the SOE/LA/SWG front.

This thread proves what we've all thought of the Senate program all along at least. We told you Greypawn. We knew SOE better than you...Noob. Someone who cared never stood a chance. Theres only one position SOE ever wanted a player to have....face down, ass up. Always been that way. But, we told ya that.