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http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/249151/-THEY-have-called-the-DOG-OUT-.html

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by sofbert

I'm very much looking forward to PVP in Aion. WoW's pvp always felt incredibly unorganized, no goals, and the cheapest PVP experience i've ever had. Because of it I was hesitant to try pvp anywhere else until I tried Warhammer. I actually enjoyed the pvp there since it felt more team-oriented, you got exp, you did repeatable quests (which rewarded exp) it felt like I actually got something out of pvp instead of giant headaches(WoW). Aion looks very similar to Warhammer's style  where there's actually goals and rewards, plus very extensive teamwork will be required.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that PvP does NOT give xp in Aion. Which means we still have to level up from PvE (which was a big flaw in WoW's PvP until recently).

I don't want to have to PvE to level.

You gain experience form PKs, but only in the Abyss zones, so you must be 25 atleast. No exp for rifting PKs.

Also the exp rewards seems to be based the AP you recieve from the target or some level restirictions, might be wrong on those two. It could become obsolete in higher levels because you gain far too less exp from PvP. We dont know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9KYI8zLXo

Interesting post. WoW caught me because it was my 2nd mmog, after CoX, being very different, and medieval - I'm a D&D player at heart (though I'm a sci-fi fan since a kid). I remember the starting area of the elves, with that beautiful and magic bloom effect all over, the misterious soundtrack - and the addicting sense of accomplishment.

Two months later I was out. And I had played my 1st mmog, CoX, for 6 months straight. I don't know what happened to WoW, it got boring around lvl 20, had already tried all races and classes and none made me stick to it anymore.

About a year later, after having tried many other mmogs (and SWG for 6 motnhs straight), my friends invited me back to try the BC - the new races caught me. They were beautiful and magical - perhaps like I first played the game, but the game play was so awesome (they really did a great work with those new starting areas for Dreanei and Blood elves. After getting back t the real world (old WoW maps) it started to get boring again...

Then I discovered the PvP servers - and my life in WoW changed. I simply forgot all my other toons (lowbies, around lvl 30), and remained on a PvP server for good. Played some 6 months and was forced to stop playing due to my carreer in another country, but I've been thinking about my Draenei Palladin every week since 10 months!

Now, about Aion, after reading lots about it, and having played a bit at Gamescom, I can't see what's not to like about it: it has beautiful graphics, nice interface, seems like an improved WoW, awesome char creator, and PvP oriented end game. I can't wait for the free trial - even though it's polished from its launch in North Korea, I believe every mmog needs some 6 months to really adjust itself.

Originally posted by Tekkin

For those who are thinking "tl;dr" I'll sum this post up by saying Aion appeals to me for these 3 reasons:

1. PVP Factor - PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought, although I enjoy raiding and it is an essential part of end-game content... for me its just a bonus. The real thrill is PVP. I've mainly played lineage 1, lineage 2, EVE online, and Planetside. All these games have something in common... they are PVP Orientated! I have zero interest in "PHAT LEWT" or "SLAYING DA DRAGON". I enjoy raiding... but NOT as the primary end game content! PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought.

2. (Hopefully) Group factor - It seems AION won't punish you like WoW does for grouping with other players, its quite possible it might actually be beneficial to PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE! This is a big one for me... When I played 1-77 in WoW (Yah I quit at 77) I never once grouped with other players, you know why? Because every time I tried it slowed my leveling down HUGE, leveling was boring enough without it taking twice as long. Seriously I think its pathetic how anti-social people are when playing MMO's... which is why the developers are forced to cater to you social rejects who are afraid of interacting with other people even on the internet.

3. Graphics - WoW graphics made me sick from the very beginning, I read on the WoW forums people dissing Aion graphics... SERIOUSLY... WOW PLAYERS DISSING AION GRAPHICS... boggles my mind. No need to explain this any further.


I'd like to hear some stories from people about their first experience with WoW... and why it never caught on for them. Also why or why not AION Appeals to them.

    This is mine.... My roommate suggests we buy WoW (this was 4-5 months before WotLK Release), so I say F*ck it lets play WoW (I had been avoiding the game since release). The first 2 months I had the game I could barely get myself to play it... I'd been there and DONE THAT... 2 feet away from me my roomate can't put the game down. Why? The dudes never even played an MMO before, or an RPG for that matter. WoW brought MMO's to the masses... william shatner, ozzie osbourne (seriously?)... but the reality is, theres nothing unique about WoW. I never hit level 80, I simply quit at level 77... because I realised the game felt like a chore for me, nothing pulling me along.

 WoW was a game for the masses who had never heard of an MMO before... does anyone know what I mean? how many people can say WoW was their first MMO.. that is why WoW was so successful. Its blizzard... how many fans did they already have... how many kids knew what an MMO was before blizzard was developing one.

 

Meh...WoW wasn't my first mmo and I really enjoyed it. PvP certainly wasn't all it was cracked up to be compared to some other games but didn't feel like an afterthought to me either - not when there are games like LotR floating around. I love LotR from a PvE standpoint but far as PvP goes that game is terrible.

As to grouping, maybe it was because when I mainly played WoW it was before the expansions but I grouped all the time for dungeons and for the group quests. Had a blast doing it and I liked that there was solo content I could tinker around with as well as group oriented material that ranged from dungeon crawls to outdoor uninstanced material with a set objective or killing a boss type.

As for the graphics, yeah they were not to my liking at all. Can't argue on that one.  Of course, I'm not a huge fan of the art direction in Aion either but the game does so well in other areas that frankly it doesn't matter to me.

I enjoyed WoW and played it off and on for some time.  Personally, I just got burned out on the game.
 

Anyways, I enjoy Aion immensely.  For some reason it reminds me a lot of EQ or at least when I played it I felt like I was playing a revamped, souped up version of EQ.  Couldn't say exactly why I had that feeling but regardless I suppose more than anything else I simply had fun playing the game which besides recently tinkering around with LotRO again and in Warhammer for a while until I got tired of making umpteen different toons to enjoy the early tiers of that game isn't something I can say I've experienced much in mmos as of late.

Isn't this game linear? ... when I tried I remember running into invisiable walls ... that was it for me.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Produde

Originally posted by GoldenDog

No, I never liked WoW and I've never played it.

If you have "never played it" how do you know you "never liked" it?

 

Because all the 'cool' kids say it sucks.

Wrong! All kids like WoW. At least any kid around my son like it and I do not know any that dislike it.

Lame WoW hate posts. I don't play WoW now, but when I did it was a very fun game that catered to lots of different play styles. I hope Aion is a huge hit, but it in the end it's just another MMO.

"Isn't this game linear? ... when I tried I remember running into invisiable walls ... that was it for me." quote by riceae02

I think there is a whole post about this O.O

Yeah, the fact that you have to compare this game to WoW is silly, and frankly hate all you want but they are probably going to end up being similiar as far as the amount of people who like/dislike each game.

Of course you're not going to like WoW. Clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular... you said yourself that you had avoided WoW since launch... so your reaction is no shock.

Played WoW Beta, didnt like it.
Played WoW gold, didnt like it.
Played WoW:BC, didnt like it.
Played WoW:WotLK, didnt like it.
Not going to bother playing WoW:Whatever the new expansion name is.

WoW felt too easy button gaming for me...  though I have to admit, they obviously have done SOMETHING right, because regardless of how much I believe WoW has ruined the MMO market, Blizzard cant hear me over the constant sound of "CHA-CHING".

Aion?  Love it,  Pre-Order CE.

I have certainly noticed that most people I have talked to that have roots in UO and MMOs based on PvP after that, typically do not care much for WoW. I personally did not enjoy WoW whatsoever, it felt way to dumbed down, cheesy, something my 10 year old niece would play.

Then again, there is not very much that I have truely enjoyed after playing UO. Sure there were a few that held my interest for a couple of years, but nothing that really captured me like Ultima Online did. I hate these new theme park MMOs, they are so incredibly restricting. That is why I cannot wait for Mortal Online and Fallen Earth, these "sandbox" games pay homage to the father of MMOs and actually let the player do what they want, instead of being told "you will be a cleric and heal!".

I've played WoW on and off since the near the end of beta. I agree 100% with you that PvP in WoW is and always was an afterthought. This is proven by the numerous changes to the PvP system over the years and the fact that it wasn't introduced until late beta.

With that said, I think WoW took the basic principles of MMOs and polished the hell out of them. This made for a game that didn't feel "new and exciting" but was so well put together that it made all other games feel dated. I think too many people who bash WoW do it because it's reached so many people and isn't your typical niche game. It's simplicity brought the genre to the masses and while it has been dumbed down way too much as the xpacs have rolled on, they did make it more friendly to people who can't spend hours upon hours per day on it. My biggest gripe with the game is the fact that after 4+ years, they still have yet to balance PvP between the classes, and I don't think they ever will. You can see they cater to PvErs just because of how easy they made getting PvE weapons and items and the fact that for so long PvE geared players were completely blowing up PvP geared players.

For me, the fun in WoW has faded, but there really isn't another MMO on the market currently that will be able to give you the feeling that you are able to accomplish something with having a little bit of play time each day. I did a few Aion beta events and I will be honest that it's getting hard for me to get excited, because I was not a fan of Lineage II or any Korean type of MMO and the game just comes off like one to me.

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

Originally posted by vgjunkie

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

Wow was my first MMO and I was completely addicted to it for a couple of years.  It was all new to me and I couldn't believe the size of the world, the fact that the initial character cut scene was the actual game were all astounding at the time.  The music and production values were so professional, I was impressed.

After all these years WoW has become even more dumbed down and I've just lost all interest.

Aion is not like other MMOs.  It is stable and from what I saw, virtually bug free.  As this is just the NA release and the game has been in production for so long in Asia, I think release will be quite different than what you are used to.  The only problem I can see is if the game is more popular than NcSoft has expected leading to laggy servers.  We'll see if they can't work out that final problem in OB.

No, I never liked WoW, but then again, I never liked UO or Everquest either for that matter. As soon as the Devs began sacrificing game-play for graphics the entire genre has been going downhill. Aion will probably follow in these footsteps. Flame away kids.

Originally posted by Bjornulve

No, I never liked WoW, but then again, I never liked UO or Everquest either for that matter. As soon as the Devs began sacrificing game-play for graphics the entire genre has been going downhill. Aion will probably follow in these footsteps. Flame away kids.

My only flame is: why post in a thread with a game you didn't like and a game you don't plan on playing?

My first MMO experience was UO. That was also the best experience to date. Even so, I lost interest about the time Age of Shadows was released and haven't been back since. I moved on to Final Fantasy XI after that, despite the major differences in the two games. I've been a FF fan since I was a child, and Square has been THE company I respect more than any other out there, hands down. After burning out with FFXI, though, I still have yet to find a good game that I truly feel connected to. I've tried Vanguard, Tabula Rasa (which, despite several flaws, had some really cool design ideas), LOTRO, Warhammer, various F2Ps and others I can't recall. WAR was the closest thing to keeping me entertained since I'd never really experienced such an attempt at organized RvR. I was impressed at first, and I still have some fond memories, but the flaws are just too glaring.

When I finally broke down and submitted myself to the WoW trial, I was sorely disappointed. I had hoped that I had been wrong all those years, that just maybe there would be something of value to it since millions of people were glued to it. I played 2 days of the 10-day trial before I could no longer stand the railroad track, candy-coated version of the Warcraft world. I had hopes that the world from the RTS series (up to Warcraft II) would be more prominent, but they obliterated it with Warcraft III and WoW. The artsy, comical style, the silly dialogue, the babysitting; it was unbearable. Warcraft was a gritty, dark and fierce world. The conflict was bloody, the heroes were demented, the story was deep. Until they decided to re-market the franchise.

I have a lot of respect for WoW outside of it's gameplay and style. Blizzard has found a killer recipe for attracting new gamers to what was once an obscure and niche genre. Most major gaming publications didn't even have a section or a column about MMOs before World of Warcraft came along. As bad as it hurts to say it, WoW put MMORPGs on the map. Unfortunately, though, it is doing nothing to mature those new MMO gamers into respectable gamers and is giving many the impression that all MMOs are supposed to cater to their every whim. No one wants to be challenged anymore, it seems.

Everyone is saying that Aion is the "spiritual successor" to Lineage II, or is effectively L3. Well, that's all fine and good, but what if it turns out to be the game that moves the gamers who were introduced to MMOs through WoW into the next step of maturity? What if this is the game that brings us out of the moronic and self-destructive cesspool and takes this now massive community of MMOers to a new level? Is that an ambitious and likely overly-optimistic thought? Yeah, maybe it is. But it is time for the WoW kids (not every former WoW player is a "WoW kid," btw) to grow up, and what better way to do it than through a game that feels similar to WoW but introduces them to a whole new world?

Originally posted by Whitetree

My first MMO experience was UO. That was also the best experience to date. Even so, I lost interest about the time Age of Shadows was released and haven't been back since. I moved on to Final Fantasy XI after that, despite the major differences in the two games. I've been a FF fan since I was a child, and Square has been THE company I respect more than any other out there, hands down. After burning out with FFXI, though, I still have yet to find a good game that I truly feel connected to. I've tried Vanguard, Tabula Rasa (which, despite several flaws, had some really cool design ideas), LOTRO, Warhammer, various F2Ps and others I can't recall. WAR was the closest thing to keeping me entertained since I'd never really experienced such an attempt at organized RvR. I was impressed at first, and I still have some fond memories, but the flaws are just too glaring.

 

When I finally broke down and submitted myself to the WoW trial, I was sorely disappointed. I had hoped that I had been wrong all those years, that just maybe there would be something of value to it since millions of people were glued to it. I played 2 days of the 10-day trial before I could no longer stand the railroad track, candy-coated version of the Warcraft world. I had hopes that the world from the RTS series (up to Warcraft II) would be more prominent, but they obliterated it with Warcraft III and WoW. The artsy, comical style, the silly dialogue, the babysitting; it was unbearable. Warcraft was a gritty, dark and fierce world. The conflict was bloody, the heroes were demented, the story was deep. Until they decided to re-market the franchise.

 

I have a lot of respect for WoW outside of it's gameplay and style. Blizzard has found a killer recipe for attracting new gamers to what was once an obscure and niche genre. Most major gaming publications didn't even have a section or a column about MMOs before World of Warcraft came along. As bad as it hurts to say it, WoW put MMORPGs on the map. Unfortunately, though, it is doing nothing to mature those new MMO gamers into respectable gamers and is giving many the impression that all MMOs are supposed to cater to their every whim. No one wants to be challenged anymore, it seems.

 

Everyone is saying that Aion is the "spiritual successor" to Lineage II, or is effectively L3. Well, that's all fine and good, but what if it turns out to be the game that moves the gamers who were introduced to MMOs through WoW into the next step of maturity? What if this is the game that brings us out of the moronic and self-destructive cesspool and takes this now massive community of MMOers to a new level? Is that an ambitious and likely overly-optimistic thought? Yeah, maybe it is. But it is time for the WoW kids (not every former WoW player is a "WoW kid," btw) to grow up, and what better way to do it than through a game that feels similar to WoW but introduces them to a whole new world?

Unfortunately I don't have much more to contribute other than you are my favorite person on these forums so far.

I loved WoW. DAoC was my first MMO, and WoW was second. I loved it for over 3 years. But I think Aion is next in line for me in terms of keeping my attention longterm.

Originally posted by Tekkin

For those who are thinking "tl;dr" I'll sum this post up by saying Aion appeals to me for these 3 reasons:

1. PVP Factor - PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought, although I enjoy raiding and it is an essential part of end-game content... for me its just a bonus. The real thrill is PVP. I've mainly played lineage 1, lineage 2, EVE online, and Planetside. All these games have something in common... they are PVP Orientated! I have zero interest in "PHAT LEWT" or "SLAYING DA DRAGON". I enjoy raiding... but NOT as the primary end game content! PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought.

2. (Hopefully) Group factor - It seems AION won't punish you like WoW does for grouping with other players, its quite possible it might actually be beneficial to PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE! This is a big one for me... When I played 1-77 in WoW (Yah I quit at 77) I never once grouped with other players, you know why? Because every time I tried it slowed my leveling down HUGE, leveling was boring enough without it taking twice as long. Seriously I think its pathetic how anti-social people are when playing MMO's... which is why the developers are forced to cater to you social rejects who are afraid of interacting with other people even on the internet.

3. Graphics - WoW graphics made me sick from the very beginning, I read on the WoW forums people dissing Aion graphics... SERIOUSLY... WOW PLAYERS DISSING AION GRAPHICS... boggles my mind. No need to explain this any further.


I'd like to hear some stories from people about their first experience with WoW... and why it never caught on for them. Also why or why not AION Appeals to them.

    This is mine.... My roommate suggests we buy WoW (this was 4-5 months before WotLK Release), so I say F*ck it lets play WoW (I had been avoiding the game since release). The first 2 months I had the game I could barely get myself to play it... I'd been there and DONE THAT... 2 feet away from me my roomate can't put the game down. Why? The dudes never even played an MMO before, or an RPG for that matter. WoW brought MMO's to the masses... william shatner, ozzie osbourne (seriously?)... but the reality is, theres nothing unique about WoW. I never hit level 80, I simply quit at level 77... because I realised the game felt like a chore for me, nothing pulling me along.

 WoW was a game for the masses who had never heard of an MMO before... does anyone know what I mean? how many people can say WoW was their first MMO.. that is why WoW was so successful. Its blizzard... how many fans did they already have... how many kids knew what an MMO was before blizzard was developing one.

 

WoW was one of the only MMO's I played for many years. Mainly due to the fact that SWG was destroyed before I got the chance to really immerse myself. Anyway back on topic.

I will be straightforward. Pre-BC I enjoyed WoW alot, I stayed up for many hours grinding away. But during and after BC the game has taken a turn for the worse. I no longer enjoy the game like I used to, mainly for the fact, there is no challenge anymore. The only challenges left are to do end game dungeons. And WoW has never changed the fact that if u want to do hardcore end game content you need a guild. But end game guilds wont even look at you if you dont have the gear quite up to snuff, but you cant get the gear without a guild, do I sense a loop here?

I played Aion during Beta honestly expecting it to be another Asian piece of crap (No offense intended). But was surprised to see how deep the game actually was, and I only got to lvl 10. I can only imagine what the game is like beyond that.

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah, the fact that you have to compare this game to WoW is silly, and frankly hate all you want but they are probably going to end up being similiar as far as the amount of people who like/dislike each game.

 

Of course you're not going to like WoW. Clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular... you said yourself that you had avoided WoW since launch... so your reaction is no shock.

your an idiot, the whole point of my post is talking about the fact that MOST people who have a taste for PVP and a lot of prior experience with the MMO Genre generally look at wow and say...  Been there done that. This isn't a wow hate post, just a clear example of the distinct differences of some peoples tastes. A person like yourself couldn't FATHOM that someone wouldn't like WoW, your obviously a complete fanboy from the sentence "clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular..." douche. I don't HATE WoW, Its a great game... for most people. NOT ME.

Originally posted by scodavis

Originally posted by vgjunkie

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

 

Wow was my first MMO and I was completely addicted to it for a couple of years.  It was all new to me and I couldn't believe the size of the world, the fact that the initial character cut scene was the actual game were all astounding at the time.  The music and production values were so professional, I was impressed.

After all these years WoW has become even more dumbed down and I've just lost all interest.

Aion is not like other MMOs.  It is stable and from what I saw, virtually bug free.  As this is just the NA release and the game has been in production for so long in Asia, I think release will be quite different than what you are used to.  The only problem I can see is if the game is more popular than NcSoft has expected leading to laggy servers.  We'll see if they can't work out that final problem in OB.

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Edit: It seems most people enjoyed WoW when it FIRST came out, before the expansions. Maybe thats what ruined it for me I didn't play until a few months before WOTLK, I hit 60 and just continued on to 70. A lot of the PRE BC dungeons did look interesting but I never got to experience it. Maybe if I had given it a chance when it first came out I might have enjoyed it... Then again I was too busy playing lineage 2 at the time.

Oh and I garuntee anyone that Aion will die if NCSoft doesn't controll botting and hopefully tame gold farmers, Lineage 2 was a great game but NCSoft let it die from this exact same cause, the botters literally ruined the game.

Originally posted by Tekkin

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Grind is not difficulty. The ability to will yourself to go on, despite soul-numbing boredom is not skill.

Mainstream MMOs will never focus on skill, because it limits the market too much.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Tekkin

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Grind is not difficulty. The ability to will yourself to go on, despite soul-numbing boredom is not skill.

Mainstream MMOs will never focus on skill, because it limits the market too much.

Your right, see Lineage 2 on paper was an amazing game, but it was ruined by botters and the soul-numbing boring grind.

If you took aion right now and added the Lineage 2 grind, along with the hundreds of botters from lineage 2. Aion would fail amost instantly.

Oh, also for people who did not know, this game has already been released....in Asia, for over a year now.

So yeah, it is very polished, just like a lot of MMOs that have been out for over a year. The only reason it is in beta for NA is to work out the kinks of translating the game and making some minor tweaks to make it work in the American market.

Definitely a plus in my opinion, but not a valid arguement when it comes to comparing it to other MMO releases.

I loved wow before the crappy BC and they destroyed a good game, but no I have Aion and I love it.