Originally posted by Einstein-DF

There was a period at launch that the game had a 2k player fight on the continent of Yssam (large area so spread out, supported by multiple servers)

 

So EVE had an 1800  ship fight in a huge area (i'm guessing since I was not there that it was spread out, also supported by multiple servers). But eve did not have to  generate the ground/wildlife etc, just empty space and stars flickering.

 

Add and subtract, Darkfall had the biggest most impressive battles.

 

I look forward to your rebuttals gentlemen

Lol, in one place, I was in a RR that topped 800+ in DAOC. Not spread out in one place at a mile gate. Now this isn t including all the roaming groups, reinforcements inc. etc. Besides I can t prove this claim as you can t with 2000.  When I played DFO at the start, that was literally the whole server pop on at that moment which didn t happen.

Originally posted by goofy3k

Eve and Lineage 2 are just point at click games, not 3d fps which is way more complicated. In clicking games ur point of movement is easy determined by where u click, moving with keys is a lot different, and involves alot more.

And regardless of what you may think, the combat is just animations calculated by stats and formula. There are no physics in eve AT ALL, so dont kid yourself. Darkfalls battles are an achievement, and they are the largest of its game type.

Woot! And the goal post is moved yet again! Now point-and-click versus 3D FPS somehow negates a PvP MMO having larger battles.

Yes, because the camera orientation and control mechanism is totally relevant to how many people are fighting in a given area.

This topic is pure gold. I need more popcorn.

 

Originally posted by Einstein-DF

So EVE had an 1800  ship fight in a huge area (i'm guessing since I was not there that it was spread out, also supported by multiple servers). But eve did not have to  generate the ground/wildlife etc, just empty space and stars flickering.

Yes, you are guessing.

These battles happened in one system. Although EVE is running on a cluster a single solar system is allways handled by the same blade(-server) or SOL server as its named in EVE. So the battle was indeed handled by one server. And as "blobing" (placing all you ships in the same spot) is the standard tactics, most of them was in the same grid (area of sight).

So all in all you where guessing wrong...

Originally posted by Einstein-DF

There was a period at launch that the game had a 2k player fight on the continent of Yssam (large area so spread out, supported by multiple servers)

And that's seriously impressive to you? Seriously? Being able to handle an alleged 2,000 players across an entire continent, supported by multiple servers... is impressive to you?

Wow. Way to undermine your own argument. You just described what a MMO is *supposed* to be able to do. Handle large numbers of players online concurrently by distributing the load across multiple servers. Hooray... AV got that part right.

And, let's keep in mind, that when it was first announced, it was described to sound like it was a much smaller area.. That is until others called BS on it and videos posted to "prove it" failed to do so. Then suddenly it became "Oh... well... it was spread out. There were multiple battles happening in multiple places across a continent".

Lineage 2 does this every other weekend during castle sieges. All the castles are on the same continent as well. There are 3 or 4 castle sieges happening at a time. 500+ could be present for one castle alone - in one relatively small area (the siege grounds are restricted to an area around each castle) - if it's a highly contested one on a given weekend. It's basically identical to what you describe in DF, and it's been happening in L2 for *years* now.

Oh, and let's not forget the PvP that's happening in the areas between those castles. Or all the other players out and about, grinding, etc. etc. Those all have to be managed as well. The game manages it just fine.

The difference is... I wouldn't say "2000+ fighting it out at once in Lineage 2" as proof of some kind of brilliant technology, because that would be a completely BS claim.. The players are spread out, being managed by different servers; each set of servers handling a different chunk of them.

This is a *perfect* example - of many - of how unspectacular facts are spun and exaggerated to make DF seem more impressive than it is. Thank you for providing an example, Einstein.

So EVE had an 1800  ship fight in a huge area (i'm guessing since I was not there that it was spread out, also supported by multiple servers). But eve did not have to  generate the ground/wildlife etc, just empty space and stars flickering.

And the goal post keeps moving!
The claim for DF was "the most massive PvP battles in any MMO". It's been proven wrong. Only *after* the fact did the whole "well, there's no terrain in Eve, so there!" bit get added, which is a cop-out. And, even then... Lineage 2 has had - by your criteria - PvP going on with potentially ~2000 characters for *years* now... and that *is* a terrain-based game with trees and so forth.

Oh wait... that's right... someone else came along and added "well, L2 is point and click... so *that* makes it different".

LOL... Man I hope the popcorn don't run out.

Add and subtract, Darkfall had the biggest most impressive battles.

Opinion based on flawed logic.

I look forward to your rebuttals gentlemen

No rebuttals necessary... You destroyed your own argument in your first statement.

Um you are all speculating as usual and haterading as usual.

DF had the biggest battles ever and you cannot disprove that. Again EVE is multiple servers placed together in a server cluster, just like DF. So DF pwns eve logically. besides it had 200 more people than eve's 1800.

DAOC had 800+ battles? k that's 1200 less than DF, good job

I was in a 2k battle, saw it with my own eyes.

Believe what you wish homeboyz, the undisputable fact is that Darkfall had the most massive battles in any mmorpg in existance, and you cannot disprove it, can you?

Originally posted by Einstein-DF

Um you are all speculating as usual and haterading as usual.

 

DF had the biggest battles ever and you cannot disprove that. Again EVE is multiple servers placed together in a server cluster, just like DF. So DF pwns eve logically. besides it had 200 more people than eve's 1800.

 

DAOC had 800+ battles? k that's 1200 less than DF, good job

 

I was in a 2k battle, saw it with my own eyes.

 

Believe what you wish homeboyz, the undisputable fact is that Darkfall had the most massive battles in any mmorpg in existance, and you cannot disprove it, can you?

Not to be the one to point out the obvious here Einstein...

But... there is no way you can prove just how many players were involved in said battle that you

"saw it with my own eyes"

So, no there isn't any "undisputable fact" 

Unless of course you'd like to demonstrate for all of us what you consider to be this

"undisputable fact"

I'm curious just how you plan to do this though... so I'll check back. 

I understand now, it's all marketing on AVs part. They have not added the facts that the battles are not all in one place and left numerous details out but this is how some company's operate. Av is not the only game to exaggerate ingame features and highlights. I've played many other games where it sounded good but when I'm actually playing the game it wasn't as how it sounded like. Anyway, IMO there have been battles involving thousands of players during the Hyperion VS. CoTC, Afghan, Cairn, SB war and other wars. I believe that it's some of the adjectives they use that enrage those who dislike Darkfall.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

I understand now, it's all marketing on AVs part. They have not added the facts that the battles are not all in one place and left numerous details out but this is how some company's operate. Av is not the only game to exaggerate ingame features and highlights. I've played many other games where it sounded good but when I'm actually playing the game it wasn't as how it sounded like. Anyway, IMO there have been battles involving thousands of players during the Hyperion VS. CoTC, Afghan, Cairn, SB war and other wars. I believe that it's some of the adjectives they use that enrage those who dislike Darkfall.

So was that your version of an apology for what you said earlier?

"What the fuck? Why would anyone say that Darkfall has the largest MMO battles, it certainly has large battles but not the largest. How about you haters quit blaming the fans about saying that? Maybe the trolls that try to act like fans and exaggerating everything on purpose"

Heh... you seem a LOT more understanding when you realized that those who were saying

"DarkFall has the largest MMO battles"

was in fact Aventurine themselves.  

Glad we could help with your understanding. 
 

Given the distances involved and population issues, I highly doubt that there were single fights of 2000 characters. And, then again, how was this number assessed? I guess this is all optimistic guesswork. Or maybe that ole spin: "My Alliance was fighting that Alliance, so we attacked with 10 here, another 10 at Yssam and so on, yadda yadda, amounting the amazing 2000 people!" Which is also preposterous, just for other reasons.

Being a long time EVE player and proud participant of the first massive server crash due to massive amount of fighting in the same system (back in... 2004? 2005? Can't remember), I'm inclined to say that EVE has massive combat on a regular basis, in a scale that DFO cannot match, simply by force of the numbers involved.

I've sort of lost the point of this thread.   All I know is I've personally been in sieges where there were easily 100+ players on my screen at one time.     Outside of my screen and immediate area were hundreds more.   Why would any one even crare if there isn't any room left on your screen at a given time for any more action than you can consume?       Obviously DFO has every thing from Massive Battles to 1 vs 1 and all between.     The important thing is it doesn't limit the number of players like AoC did as an example with code.      It's a young game that is great with awesome potential.    I recall EQ2 releasing and very few being able to load the screens under 3 minutes.    Code and technology change.    There are massive battles in DFO today, adn there will be tomorrow, but no doubt, the battles in the future will run even better than the past.  /shrug

-CC

How do you know the number of people present at one place in Darkfall?

Originally posted by Gdemami

How do you know the number of people present at one place in Darkfall?

The same as in any other MMO... it's a guesstimate. 

Which is why I told Einstein in my previous post that there is no such thing as

"indisputable proof"

when it comes to talking about Battles and/or Siege sizes.

Which is why it's kinda silly for a MMO to claim that they have the biggest or largest. 

It's marketing spin, which isn't bad in and of itself.  It just needs to be recognized as such and not used as "indisputable proof". 

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Originally posted by xzyax

The same as in any other MMO... it's a guesstimate. 
 

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I thought there is a way to count it when people start giving out numbers. This discussion is pointless then.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by xzyax

The same as in any other MMO... it's a guesstimate. 
 

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LOL. That's really funny.
EVE counts people in local channel so it is pretty accurate.

 

I thought there is a way to count it when people start giving out numbers. This discussion is pointless then.

 

Usually in Darkfall, it is counted with a combination of alliance sizes, videos, and alliances counting how many people they had and posting it

EDIT: Btw xzy, I posted that other post earlier in order to stop possible flame wars. I'm tired of starting arguments where people bring in their exaggerated opinions and then everyone believes them because they all hate the game.

Originally posted by Einstein-DF

Um you are all speculating as usual and haterading as usual.

DF had the biggest battles ever and you cannot disprove that.

And you can prove it? Demonstrably? Backed by researched data gleaned from every battle in every PvP MMO ever released and/or still going? I'd like to see the results of that research.

I mean surely you're not just pulling such absolute statements out of thin air. Are you?

Or, are you going on the fact that Tasos says it's so? *That* would be comedy.

had 200 more people than eve's 1800.

Only if you ignore that *tiny* detail that in Eve, as has been explained here, all those people *were* in the same system and, thus, handled by the same server(s) - that is impressive. In DF, per yours and Tasos' own say-so, the battles were spread out across an entire continent, managed by different servers - not at all impressive, in fact... pretty standard.

To put it another way...  
A) "2000 players, broken down into smaller groups, fighting in different areas of a continent"
is not the same as
B) "2000 in the same battle".

'B' would be a real feat. 'A' happens all the time in any decently populated PvP MMO. Tasos and people like yourself are spinning 'A' to make it sound like 'B'.

I'm sure you know this and are just doing the usual routine of knowingly spinning facts to make DF sound more impressive than it is. 


I was in a 2k battle, saw it with my own eyes.

LOL

So you saw 2000 people at the same time - which by your own say so, were spread out across an entire continent? Is that some new "see everyone everywhere at the same time" hack people are using?

Or, did you travel cross-continent from one fight to another and saw what, "to your eyes", was *definitely* 2000 players in total? Did you tally them up individually to confirm that number? Was some roll call conducted?

Here's another question... How many battles of that scope have allegedly happened in DF? I'm only aware of the one that everyone keeps talking about, but maybe there are more. Even if it's only one, or even 5 or 10... that's still not ground-breaking nor very impressive.

Let's suspend disbelief for a moment and pretend that ~2000 people broken up into groups, spread across a continent is some new and unprecedented feat in MMOs...

I'd still have to question it.

Again, Lineage 2 has had that same scenario played out potentially every other weekend for 5+ years. It doesn't happen every siege weekend... but guaranteed it's happened far more than once.. or even 10 times.

So even if one suspends disbelief, DF still hasn't accomplished anything special or unique.

Believe what you wish homeboyz, the undisputable fact is that Darkfall had the most massive battles in any mmorpg in existance, and you cannot disprove it, can you?

Err... sorry. That's not the way it works. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. In this case, you are the one making the claim and deeming it as "undisputable fact".  It's on you to prove it.

So... let's see the proof.

Please share with us the fruits of all that research you've done to come to such an absolute conclusion.

Given the broad nature of your claim - since there are many PvP MMOs out there - there should be quite a lot of evidence, including some combination of numbers, charts, references, videos, screenshots, records of every fight in every PvP MMO in existence, credible sources to validate said information... and other such materials. The research should be comprehensive, thorough, unbiased and fair. It should not be altered or slanted in DF's favor.

Don't worry, I don't think any of us are holding our breath. Far more likely that you'll back-pedal out of it in some way, spinning like a top, to save face... just like all the rabid fans do when people challenge them to prove their claims.

On the other hand... Maybe you'd be better off not making claims you know you can't or aren't prepared to back with solid, objective proof.
 

Darkfall has the largest world of any MMO ever,excluding all the ones that are larger that don't count because there not hand crafted.

With over 10,000 concurrent players per server participating in the largest MMO battles ever involving thousands, all you need is a good imagination and some wishful thinking to experience them.

It also offers the ultimate left click circle strafe AOE spam PvP action and that's the reason why its the #1 choice of top players and clans, if Darkfall is not your #1 choice then you are obviously not a top player or a member of a top clan like me.

But be warned that PvP is everywhere but its with accountability, so don't worry about the pointless ganking and griefing without consequences you might of experienced in every other so called PvP MMO.

Also there's no leveling , you just improve the skills you use, so you can finally say goodbye to the monotonous level grind found in so many other inferior titles.

If you don't believe me do some research and read the official website, or ask Tasos and his friends, or any of the few people left that are not troll haters.

Did I mention that its roleplaying mouth breathing strategy shooter adrenaline rush nerd rage politics in a MMO, truly massive by design, its obvious why Darkfall is currently one of it not the most rapidly increasing MMO on the market.

Patch and second expansion coming in October or soon, please play, we promise we wont charge you a third time for the game.

This is all indisputable because you can't disprove it only speculate and hate rage, I saw it with my own eyes and Tasos has the logs to prove it.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by WSIMike

Umm... no... 

 

-sigh- Do I seriously have to explain this?

Okay...

DF fans have claimed - along with Tasos - that DF has the largest PvP battles in any MMO. Note the complete lack of qualifiers outside of  "MMO".

However that claim was quickly shot down by the fact that Eve Online has had much larger PvP encounters, and on a more frequent basis.

So... True to form, the rabid fans go into full-on spin mode. They move the goal post further down field and add a qualifier *after* the fact by saying "Well... Eve doesn't count because it doesn't have terrain and DF does..."

If Eve Online did have terrain in the game and had still had larger battles, they'd find some *other* qualifier to add after the fact, thus moving the goal post even farther.
The point is...
If you have to keep changing the conditions, adding qualifiers and moving the goal post to make a claim seem true, there isn't much to the claim in the first place.

For rabid DF fans... the goal post never stops moving.

 

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I didn't mean it as an attack on you or such, just can't really believe someone would be so dumb and use it as an 'argument'.

Ahhh okay. Fair enough. I misunderstood your post :)

 

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Originally posted by Pyrostasis
they have been claiming to have the largest pvp fights for a while. Funny thing is they refuse to acknowledge eve's 1800+ fleet battles as if they never existed.

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lol 10 minutes to zone in, desync, disconnect come back find your pod.. I wouldn't call that a battle.. I've been in many 800+ battles and not one was playable.