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8/26/09 10:07:20 AM#51
I wonder what people were after exactly from TOR? (I mean apart from the SWG people who want SWG2 ;)) After all, would there be more rants if they had shown examples of content that was the same as WoW but with their art over the top? I remember when WAR was being shown, they constantly waved flags and showed content that was "different" - public quests yay we're innovating! etc. I can see that Bioware are doing a similar thing in that they are trying to show what they are doing differently for an mmo. Granted it sounds a lot like the epic quests in Lotro, so hardly an innovation, but they are showing how they intend to implement story via cutscenes and dialogue. I honestly can't see them faulted for that. Too single player? Let's look at most other mmo's (yes even/especially WoW), single player is usually the way to go whilst levelling (in WoW honestly who grouped up to kill kobolds in the human starting area? - first group I had in WoW was for deadmines). Sure, once you hit endgame you tend to group more for dungeons - but even then, plenty of solo content via crafting, daily quests etc. Bioware stated that they have carved a story for each class that is bigger than the single player storyline in Kotor 1&2. I honestly can't see the problem there, unless you don't like story/content and prefer fast levelling/phat lewt? Most MMO's I've played have had interesting story's to play through, but I tended to find that once you'd levelled one character to the top, the rest of the time you power-levelled alts and ignored story the second time. By giving you a decent story for each class, Bioware is aiming to give people replayability. Currently we know honestly little about TOR except for what they've shown us - and what they've shown us so far is the direction they are taking. It will be an mmo from the perspective that a lot of people will play it with plenty per server (or however they design it). You will have a class quest (possibly similar to the epic lines in Lotro), but other than that all they are saying so far is that quest giver will be voice acted. They've said the usual "mmo" stuff will be in with raids, crafting, dungeons etc. So all the naysaying seems a bit off to me. Frankly if I'd seen their coverage and it'd all been about how similar they are to other mmo's it probably would have dented my interest. I mean jeez guys what did you want them to say "Our first dungeon is the 'deadspacemines' where you enter space pirate caves and fight a large alien with a vibro-hammer before boarding their space ship and fighting the leader called Han Cleef?" So far, they've shown how they are different, why not wait till they declare how they will also be the same before declaring they won't be? |
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8/26/09 10:37:23 AM#52
To throw in some wood... This is going to be less MMO than EVE, but more RPG than WoW. "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in." |
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8/26/09 10:43:09 AM#53
This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans. This game is a poor excuse for an MMO. Bioware is pissing all over the genre. GTFO! |
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8/26/09 10:47:26 AM#54
Originally posted by Revthought
Every game has it's blind fanbois and haters alike. The haters just hate, and the fanbois defend the game against any possible misgiving someone might have about the direction of the game. We see this sort of thing with every upcoming and released game. The blind will always be blind, just ignore them. Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic |
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8/26/09 10:59:30 AM#55
Originally posted by Ruyn Actually, I would hope more companies would "piss all over" the genre. It has become too stagnant. We need companies that diversify and move to different directions. Three games in this genre that I am looking forward to are (and yes, I have grown to dislike generic fantasy): 1. Global Agenda 2. Star Wars: The Old Republic 3. The Secret World All different concepts and all will be MMOs. "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in." |
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Originally posted by thexrated Actually, I would hope more companies would "piss all over" the genre. It has become too stagnant. We need companies that diversify and move to different directions. Three games in this genre that I am looking forward to are (and yes, I have grown to dislike generic fantasy): 1. Global Agenda 2. Star Wars: The Old Republic 3. The Secret World All different concepts and all will be MMOs. Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game. Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?
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8/26/09 12:10:55 PM#57
Originally posted by tillamook Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game. Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's. |
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Originally posted by Ruyn Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game. Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's. maybe for you.
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8/26/09 2:57:09 PM#59
Originally posted by Ruyn Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game. Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's. EVE |
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8/26/09 3:03:25 PM#60
Originally posted by Revthought
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's. EVE I agree. That to can be added to the list. Very exciting prospect re dust 514. |
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8/26/09 3:12:08 PM#61
Originally posted by Ruyn Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game. Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's.
You should clarify that as true hopes for you. I have no interest in those 2 and I know of many others who feel the same. |
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8/26/09 3:23:59 PM#62
Originally posted by arenasb
Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's.
You should clarify that as true hopes for you. I have no interest in those 2 and I know of many others who feel the same. True. There is a very saturated market of AAA themepark titles. It's a shame this has to be another one. |
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8/26/09 3:42:50 PM#63
Originally posted by Abrahmm
Every game has it's blind fanbois and haters alike. The haters just hate, and the fanbois defend the game against any possible misgiving someone might have about the direction of the game. We see this sort of thing with every upcoming and released game. The blind will always be blind, just ignore them.
Been doing that for a while now thanks. |
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8/26/09 5:06:15 PM#64
Originally posted by Revthought
It isn't directed at folks like yourself who have rational points. It's directed at the folks who do stupid drive by posts like "WOW ripoff" or repeat the same tripe over and over again in every thread. Those aren't rational people who have genuine concerns for the game. They're trolls and they deserve to be treated as such. |
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8/27/09 9:14:53 AM#65
Originally posted by tillamook Cry me a river drama queen, this isn't a debate over health insurance, it's just a game. If I used your foolish tactics on every MMO game I disliked, this site would be full of my angry rantings. Thing is if I don't give a shit about a game, I'm not gonna waste my time talking about it daily. I'm starting to think you are actually in love with this game, like the school kid who pulls the pony tails of the girl sitting in the desk in front of him because he likes her. No way in hell you aren't interested in TOR with as much time as you spend posting about, you and the rest of the wanna-be haterz are drinking this shit up good and bad. If what you are really trying to do is ruin BioWare with your antics like you think you did with SOE, good luck with that, you would have better luck hitting Mars with rock shot from a slingshot. Besides, if you were to throw an angry SWG vet convention at this point, like 2 people would show up to give shit. xD In closing, if you really think you know everything there is to know about SWTOR, and you know for a fact it will suck, and you hate it, why not just move on then?
Pull the cork out of your sphincter, fanboi. Personal abuse helps no-one, does it? This is a discussion forum and everyone is allowed to express their opinions, even if they disagree with yours. It looks extremely like SWTOR is NOT going to be an MMO but a very simple sub-FPS adventure game. I'm not going anywhere because I want to be here when SWTOR is launched so I can see your pathetic spnning followed by your nervous breakdown as SWTOR turns out to be much less than you have pimped. |
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8/27/09 9:15:55 AM#66
Originally posted by Ruyn
Bingo! |
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8/27/09 9:28:22 AM#67
MMO....not MMO IDFC...I have played many Bioware games and haven't found one yet that I didn't thoroughly enjoy. If your definition of an MMO is "EVERYONE must be in the same instance" then go play that game. I for one don't want to be stuck in the same instance as 200 tounge lolling button mashing anorexic ritalin junkies screaming roflcopter, ipwndjoo, stfu, and other irritating tripe. I want an enjoyable gaming experience. IDC if it has instances. I had a blast playing guild wars in countless too late nights doing PVP. So weather or not it has instances or not is moot to me, I'm buying it.......because I trust bioware to make a product that I will enjoy, I loved the gameplay video, and I like the class based mission system/storytelling. I think it will be an awesome title. |
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8/27/09 9:57:22 AM#68
And now for something completely different . . . . . .
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8/27/09 10:01:57 AM#69
Originally posted by Ruyn :) Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.
Waiting for Fallen Earth, World of Darkness, Old Republic, FFXIV |
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8/27/09 11:02:59 AM#70
Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok? Are the developer's words evidence? Yes, and no. When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence. Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released. Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves. So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features? No. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs. There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games. I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO. I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones. No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game". To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA. What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part. It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something. |
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singsofdeath
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
8/27/09 11:06:29 AM#71
Originally posted by demalus
I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. |
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8/27/09 11:22:34 AM#72
Originally posted by singsofdeath
I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof. Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof. Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is. edit: For clarity's sake, I'll reiterate what I was getting at. It's not that there are absolutely no MMO features in the game. I don't believe that this is ACTUALLY a single player game being sold as an MMO - it is not at heart an MMO experience. The MMO stuff that will be part of this game is poorly conceived and tacked on just to fit the marketing needs of selling "The next big MMO!" |
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singsofdeath
Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
8/27/09 11:26:39 AM#73
Originally posted by demalus And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof. Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof. Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is. A 20 minute demo of lowbie areas and a low level Flashpoint is proof of absence?
If we were 2 weeks close to release and this sort of thing is the only stuff we had, then I would agree with you. As is, this game is half a year or more from release. Which means half a year or more in which they can show other things to us...like maybe the rest of the game.
Theoretically you could be right. But presenting that as fact is silly at this point in time. |
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8/27/09 11:31:51 AM#74
Originally posted by Narshe :) Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.
I still think it's a poor design decision. You look at it like there is all of this potential upside for instanced themepark MMO's. You neglect to say that the current instanced themepark MMO's are saturated and destined to fail. Fans of AAA sandbox MMO's are frothing at the mouth for a good game and IMO far likelier to succeed. Also, the themepark fans are maturing and wanting more from MMO's these days. Things that sandboxes can offer. Why would a person want to leave one themepark can go straight to another? Go from one carrot to another? |
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8/27/09 12:00:17 PM#75
Originally posted by demalus And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof. Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof. Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is. edit: For clarity's sake, I'll reiterate what I was getting at. It's not that there are absolutely no MMO features in the game. I don't believe that this is ACTUALLY a single player game being sold as an MMO - it is not at heart an MMO experience. The MMO stuff that will be part of this game is poorly conceived and tacked on just to fit the marketing needs of selling "The next big MMO!" Bioware dosen't do half assed games Bioware is making an mmo Bioware won't be making a half assed mmo |
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